October 26, 2009

Obama's White House boy's club.

Here's an article that is getting a lot of attention for pointing out that in 9 months in office, Obama has played golf more times than George W. Bush did in his first 2 years. But there's something even more interesting: Obama didn't include any women in these golf rounds until last weekend, at which time he golfed with a woman once.

Now, here's a NYT article the observation that the White House has a boy's club atmosphere:
Does the White House feel like a frat house?

The suspicion flared in recent weeks — and not for the first time — after President Obama was criticized by women’s advocates and liberal bloggers for hosting a high-level basketball game with no female players.
The president, after all, is an unabashed First Guy’s Guy....
He presides over a White House rife with fist-bumping young men who call each other “dude” and testosterone-brimming personalities like Rahm Emanuel, the often-profane chief of staff; Lawrence Summers, the brash economic adviser; and Robert Gibbs, the press secretary, who habitually speaks in sports metaphors....

Mr. Obama, in an interview with NBC on Wednesday, called the beef over basketball “bunk”... “I don’t think it sends any kind of message or signal whatsoever,” said the president, who often points out that he is surrounded by strong females at home (where he is the only non-canine male).
Wow. Incredible.  If there is any serious feminism left in this country — by which I mean the kind of feminism we had back before the Clinton presidency — it would ream a man who sought credit for inclusiveness toward women by referring to the fact that he had a wife and daughters in his household.
[Senior adviser Valerie] Jarrett similarly rejected the notion that the West Wing had been overrun by Y chromosomes, saying such complaints were “a Washington perception that has nothing to do with the reality on the ground.”
The evidence?
She cites the prominent women Mr. Obama has appointed to top positions, including Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton...
Where has she been?
... and six other cabinet-level officials; Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor...
She's over there in chambers, and nowhere near the Prez.
... the health care czar, Nancy-Ann DeParle...
Why don't we say "czarina"? We've got these new positions and the title you get is male-specific. It's as if were were calling the Secretary of State "Mr. Secretary."
... and the domestic policy adviser, Melody Barnes. According to figures provided by the administration, there is a 50-50 gender split among White House employees.
Which makes it all the more striking that the atmosphere reads as so male:
[S]ome high-profile sectors of the White House — economics and national security, for instance — are filled with men and exude an unmistakable male vibe. Mr. Obama’s inner circle includes Mr. Gibbs, Mr. Emanuel and his senior adviser, David Axelrod (“The Boys,” as they are known to some female staff members).

Women in important White House jobs tend to be less visible than their colleagues, even as the administration is trying to elevate their profiles. (In the same week as the basketball game, Anita Dunn, the White House communications director, hosted a group of women reporters for an off-the-record meeting with Ms. Jarrett over chocolate chip and oatmeal cookies.)
Did they share the recipes?

There is so much reason to try to create the impression that women are important that the truth of the exclusion of women must be even worse than it appears.
One Democratic media strategist says that while Mr. Obama does place women in important roles, his comfort level with staff members is not always perceived as equal.

“There is a sense that Obama has a certain jocular familiarity with the men that he doesn’t have with the women,” said Tracy Sefl, an adviser to Mrs. Clinton’s presidential campaign who speaks regularly to some female aides in the administration.
This is exactly the problem feminists used to focus on.

Good for Sefl, going public like that and getting named. I would love to eavesdrop on conversations between Sefl and Hillary.
In interviews, five women who work in the White House or advised officials there described the culture with more of a collective eye-roll than any real sense of grievance or discomfort.
Well, what the hell happened to real sense? When did feminism lose its critical edge? (Answer: During the Clinton administration.)
One junior aide, who like the other women spoke on the condition of anonymity because of concerns about appearing publicly critical, said that the “sports-fan thing at the White House” could become “annoying” and that her relative indifference to athletics could be mildly alienating.
Annoying... mildly alienating....  The spirit of feminism is so diminished these days that women think of their own observations as insignificant and scarcely worth making any fuss about. Compare this to the times of vivid, vital feminism that followed a methodology of elevating and intensifying the importance of these seemingly small observations. Once there was conscience raising. The new methodology of dying feminism deserves to be called consciousness lowering.
And while this is not uncommon in any workplace, sports bonding can afford a point of entree with the boss.
Oh, good lord. That this needs to be pointed out again — modestly suggested — shows how far we have sunk. There was once biting criticism of the sexism inherent in workplace sports bonding.
Ben Finkenbinder, a junior press aide and scratch golfer, was recently invited into a foursome with Mr. Obama. (In records kept by Mark Knoller of CBS, the president has played 23 rounds of golf since taking office, none of which have included women, though Mr. Knoller allows that the press office does not always release the names of every player. A White House spokesman, Bill Burton, said Friday that Mr. Obama planned to play this weekend with Ms. Barnes.)
Ha. This NYT — NYT — article was already in the works when the White House scrambled to produce a female golfer.
[Some] women in the administration say that any discussion of White House culture should account for how politics has long been dominated by men but is now more inclusive. Ms. Dunn... rejects the notion of a boys’ club. She calls the Obama administration “refreshingly un-self-conscious” about matters of equality, maybe to a point where they neglected the “optics” of the all-male basketball game.
Oh?! So maybe it's a little like the post-racial America we were supposed to get — but didn't get — after Obama was elected. It's the post-gender America. No one needs to notice who's male and who's female anymore. So the inner circle is all male? You're not supposed to even see it!
Ms. Dunn said that she recently hosted a baby shower for an administration official and that no men from the office were invited. She is comfortable with that — just as she is fine with never playing basketball with the president.

“That is just part of the culture here that I am excluded from,” she said. “And I don’t care.”
Consciousness lowering — it's so refreshing.

Now, if everyone would please dial down all the criticism and let Obama get on with his un-self-conscious guy's guy agenda, it will all work out just fine.

Don't worry your pretty little head.

174 comments:

Paul Zrimsek said...

"You fucked up. You trusted us." -- Eric "Otter" Stratton, Presidential Health Care Task Force

The Crack Emcee said...

"So the inner circle is all male? You're not supposed to even see it!"

No, Ann, you're not supposed to care - just as I don't care most of the people here are white. it's that constant "noticing" - when nothing's wrong and no one was trying to hurt or insult anyone - that's got people all fucked up:

Are we colorblind or not? If so, then shut up about it.

The same goes with sex. When Sarah Palin is president, do you seriously think I'm going to be concerned whether there are X number of blacks in her cabinet or whether her administration does a good job?

You know the answer already, now get off the goddamn stick with this shit:

It's a fucking non-issue.

Bob said...

It should be pointed out that Bush stopped golfing while President, probably to prevent the MSM from juxtaposing footage of him golfing against reports of war casualties.

Avierra said...

“That is just part of the culture here that I am excluded from,” she said. “And I don’t care.”


I cannot believe that woman is the communications director for the White House. She's abysmal.

WV=autweary. So very tired of her idiotic pronouncements.

kentuckyliz said...

Bros before hos.

*fistbump*

Titus said...

Well welcome to the real world.

Do we have to include women in our golf games?

Do women have to include men in their baby showers?

Why?

Why, I ask with complete dignation.

thank you and god bless the USA.

Roger J. said...

Everybody knows you dont want to golf with womyn--their tits get in the way which is why they arent good golfers.
heard that on espn I think

Anyway--the rubes are suprised because Obama's a fraud? thats why you are rubes

kentuckyliz said...

Aw come on, give the guy a break. He has shtrong women at home, he needs a rest from all of that.

Titus said...

I had my balls waxed, shined, polished and powdered this weekend.

Today they feel refreshed, free, light and ready to take on the world.

thank you.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bullshit - she's not supposed to care because no one's done anything against her: A bunch of guys just played a damn game and she knows it.

This is just feminist bullshit, man-hating and worthless.

In 2010, it's about as childish as you get.

Titus said...

Tits.

Womens tits get in the way of any male activity.

Wow, so profound.

mccullough said...

Like most things, Obama expects to get a pass on this.

Shouting Thomas said...

If there is any serious feminism left in this country...

Jesus Christ, I hope not. Tiresome shit.

The tendency of middle class, white, college educated women to caste themselves as victims is just rancid. Awful spoiled brats.

It's just about as foul as white, middle class kids becoming homosexuals in order to sip from the cup of oppression.

Thank God, I don't bother with white American women. Take my advice, boys. Find yourself a Filipina, and spare yourself this vicious stupidity. (And that Filipina babe will be a financial wizard and real estate hustler, too.)

As much as I admire Althouse's political views, I wouldn't touch her kind with... uh... well, we'll leave it at that. She'll drive her new husband to madness and she'll be divorced before you know it.

Besides, Obama is a Democrat and he's black. So, it's kinda cool that he's sexist. Like Bill Clinton. He should fuck his female aides. That would be OK. Sexual harassment laws are for uncool Republicans. If I were Obama, I'd start knocking off that young, eager tail now.

And, if you don't like it, you're a racist.

jpr9954 said...

Frankly, I don't see Obama as all that manly. I see him as the consummate metrosexual.

The sports he plays - basketball and golf - are either indoor or dress-up outdoor sports. You don't see him fishing (ugh, fish slime!), hunting (eek, blood), shooting (would make Sarah Brady upset), etc. Heck you don't even see him playing touch football or soccer. At least with the latter you might get some grass stains.

Even that little KGB punk Putin gets his hands dirty - and I'm not talking about "wet work" - and he gives the impression of a guy who may be a runt but is manly.

Roger J. said...

serious feminism went down the toilet with monica--aint none--as h rap brown (I think) said--the only position for women in this organization is prone--

of cours ole bro rap didnt understand the difference between prone and supine, but thats a difficult concept for the bros

AllenS said...

Well, at least when Obama is on the golf course, he isn't fucking up the country. So, he's got that going for him. Hopefully, he isn't having Biden keep an eye on things when he's out.

AJ Lynch said...

Wow, the reporter, Mark Knoller, is in charge of tracking how many times Obama golfs! He must be a super important member of the MSM!

Peter S. said...

"Why don't we say "czarina"? We've got these new positions and the title you get is male-specific."

And THAT'S when I knew you weren't serious. Honest, you had me going there for a moment.

Of course, if someone used the term czarina, the same "methodology" would compel one to note the deep injustice of using a diminutive ending for women -- while the male-coded "czar" remains the standard against which women are defined.

Check... and mate. (Another opportunity for the methodology. Can you see it?)

Shouting Thomas said...

Only one real question left after reading this:

How long with Althouse's marriage last. I give it 18 months to 2 years.

Her husband has to sit and listen to this shit every night. That is, if they live together.

So, men, how long would you listen to some crazy woman carry on about this crap in your own house before you got the hell out?

rhhardin said...

An old Mike Breen Imus transcript gives a nod to the courageous lady golfers link.

elHombre said...

Not to worry. It's just metrosexuals posturing.

John Thacker said...

"It should be pointed out that Bush stopped golfing while President, probably to prevent the MSM from juxtaposing footage of him golfing against reports of war casualties."

Yes, the article doesn't mention that, but provides pieces of data that seem strange unless you know that-- it notes that President Obama has now equaled President Bush's total of rounds, but also notes that President Bush achieved his number in two and a half years or so.

AllenS said...

WASHINGTON - US President George W. Bush said in an interview out Tuesday that he quit playing golf in 2003 out of respect for the families of US soldiers killed in the conflict in Iraq, now in its sixth year.

"I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal," he said in an interview for Yahoo! News and Politico magazine.

EDH said...

The self-reinforcing delusion is breathtaking.

She calls the Obama administration “refreshingly un-self-conscious” about matters of equality, maybe to a point where they neglected the “optics” of the all-male basketball game.

“That is just part of the culture here that I am excluded from,” she said. “And I don’t care.”

Meade said...

The tendency [...] is just rancid. Awful spoiled brats.

One of the things I've come to love about Wisconsin is the brats.

Very fresh and wholesome, completely free of damaged fats.

Titus said...

Let's be honest fellow republicans.

If women learned to tape their tits down all of this could be avoided.

Tits are a distraction to men. We can't focus on anything else. They take up a lot of space and time.

rhhardin said...

Wm. Kerrigan

We are men and women. It almost always matters which we are. Men and women are aggressive. Their regard for each other is clouded by grudges, suspicions, fears, needs, desires, and narcississtic postures. There's no scrubbing them out. The best you can hope for is domestication, as in football, rock, humor, happy marriage, and a good prose style.

The good prose style is recommended.

Shanna said...

Wow, Thanks for pointing this article out. It really is a mess, isn't it? Two points on Ms. Dunn's comments...

Ms. Dunn said that she recently hosted a baby shower for an administration official and that no men from the office were invited.

Why wouldnt' you invite the men in the office? I have never been to an office baby shower where the men weren't invited. I wonder if that's really true, or she just thought it made a good example. Also, were the men not invited or did they not come when invited? That makes a huge difference.

She is comfortable with that — just as she is fine with never playing basketball with the president.

“That is just part of the culture here that I am excluded from,” she said. “And I don’t care.”


There is no way she doesn't care. She said she was "excluded". If she didn't care she would not say that.

Photog714 said...

Trying real hard to work up some dudgeon over BO's not golfing with gals. But somehow other matters keep crowding that out -- such as that he's trying his best to turn the United States into Old Europe at its worst.

JAL said...

Don't know what I really think about this. (Much ado about nothing?) Maybe I don't care because he has turned out to be such a fraud it simply does not matter anymore.

But I give a shout out to KL @ 11:59 am for best-of-the-thead so far.

Made me laugh.

wv simmery
What the unhappy clingers are feeling these days. Things out here there all simmery.

JAL said...

Ahh Crack Emcee -- Sarah Palin as POTUS is so full of irony.

Kansas City said...

Great entertainment provided by Ann. Of course, the stuff about the need to include women (or men) is mostly nonsense and the hypocrisy of liberals on the issue is hilarious. It reflects the basic lack of honesty amoung politisans and partisans.

In Obama's defense, can you imagine how tough it must be to be married to Michelle? It is at least understandable that he wants to get away on the golf course and with the guys in the office and on the basketball court. Remember, he also spent most of the past ten years running for office and being on the road away from Michelle.

EDH said...

Shouting Thomas said...

So, men, how long would you listen to some crazy woman carry on about this crap in your own house before you got the hell out?

I'm not even sure how "some crazy woman carry on about this crap in your own house" applies here.

Anyway, I find it refreshing when a woman is secure enought to point out the hypocrisy of the liberal feminist establishment.

Titus said...

Meade you are becoming a cheesehead.

Brats.

When is the annual Hilldale Bratfest happening?

Just don't go liberal on us please!

Kansas City said...

Could you imagine what the MSM would be doing if a democrat president had stopped playing golf for five years out of respect for military personnel and then a republican president started playing golf just about every week?

I have been surprised at how openly Obama enjoys the prestige and rank of his office, e.g., golf, lavish parties, trips to New York for a "date," Air Force One to Chicago for Valentine's Day, etc. It is like he could not care less about how it looks during a recession or that he knows the press will not call him on it.

Even with this current golf thing, apparently he has played as much golf in 9 months as Bush played in8 years, but the press is just reporting as much gold in 9 months as Bush played in two plus years, ignoring the fact that Bush stopped golf in repsect to the miliary and the real comparison is over the full 8 years.

John said...

It is too bad there are not any women in a position of power who played basketball in college. I would pay big money to see a woman come in and school Obama's skinny ass.

John said...

"There is a sense that Obama has a certain jocular familiarity with the men that he doesn’t have with the women"

Isn't that just a dog wistle for "gay"? Obama's sexuality and obvious effeminate nature has always been fuel for the fever swamps of the internet. But, maybe the rumors are starting to go mainstream.

Invisible Man said...

Even with this current golf thing, apparently he has played as much golf in 9 months as Bush played in8 years, but the press is just reporting as much gold in 9 months as Bush played in two plus years, ignoring the fact that Bush stopped golf in repsect to the miliary and the real comparison is over the full 8 years.

And yet Bush visited his ranch 149, yes 149 times, not days during his presidency. I would have traded some rounds of golf, for him to have actually spent some time in his office doing his job.

Kirk Parker said...

"In the same week as the basketball game... [a female] communications director hosted a group of women reporters for an off-the-record meeting with [a female staff member].."

Wow, how condescending. Get out of the ghetto much, ladies? Or do you not even notice that's where you're being relegated?

AntiBathos said...

Feminism is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the DNC and the Secular Yuppie Identity Industry.

Self-described Feminists are about as likely to dispense with their partisan crutch and instead make an independent, logical critique as June Cleaver blowing the household budget on frills--without even asking Ward.

Bender said...

What a steaming, fly-infested load.

There is not a real man in the entirety of the Obama Administration.

Alex said...

And yet Bush visited his ranch 149, yes 149 times, not days during his presidency. I would have traded some rounds of golf, for him to have actually spent some time in his office doing his job.

Only an idiot would think that the President needs to physically be at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave to conduct his business. Red herring!

Alex said...

There is not a real man in the entirety of the Obama Administration.

It's more filled with a kind of empty macho-posturing. Usually like the Palestinian terrorhoid types that like to fire their AK-47s in the air.

John said...

"And yet Bush visited his ranch 149, yes 149 times, not days during his presidency. I would have traded some rounds of golf, for him to have actually spent some time in his office doing his job."

That is an amazingly ignorant statement. The "job" follows the President. What do you think happens when the President travels? Do you think they just let stuff pile up on his desk? No, the Presidency travels with the President. The President does his "job" no matter where he is. Every President since the advent of modern communications and travel has had an alternative whitehouse somewhere. Bush's was in Texas. Truman's was at the Mulebach hotel in Kansas City. Roosevelt's was in Key West. Reagan's was at his ranch in California.

Bush visiting his ranch is not the same as playing golf or going to a broadway show on the government's dime.

Invisible Man said...

Isn't that just a dog wistle for "gay"? Obama's sexuality and obvious effeminate nature has always been fuel for the fever swamps of the internet. But, maybe the rumors are starting to go mainstream.

Sounds like someone is little insecure about their sexuality. You know what they say "The one who smellt it, dealt it".

Roger J. said...

invisible man--you really don't have clue--really. and you think when obama goes "home" or bush goes "home" they arent connected to what is going on? that their presidential duties are put on hold? are you that fucking clueless? or are you just playing the fool here. my guess is the latter

edutcher said...

And this surprises us how? During the campaign, someone actually noted Bambi didn't pay women in his organization as much as the men.

"He presides over a White House rife with fist-bumping young men who call each other “dude” and testosterone-brimming personalities"

jpr9954 said...

Frankly, I don't see Obama as all that manly. I see him as the consummate metrosexual.

Well, maybe the rumors are true...

Bob said...

It should be pointed out that Bush stopped golfing while President, probably to prevent the MSM from juxtaposing footage of him golfing against reports of war casualties.

Wanna bet when Ubermaroon is going to tell Bambi to Shut. The. Hell. Up?

WV "standw" When you don't want your w to fall over.

Third Coast said...

Bush was apparently secure enough in his manhood to take advice from a woman: http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2006/11/06/love/index.html
Also, you know how Muslims feel about women.

John said...

"Sounds like someone is little insecure about their sexuality. You know what they say "The one who smellt it, dealt it"."

If only I dressed well enough or were good looking enough to set of anyone's gaydar. Obama is by far the most effeminate and ambiguously gay President since people started noticing these things. There are of course lots of rumors about his sexuality. I have no idea and don't care if he is gay. That is his business and unless it is affecting his service as President none of ours. But, you can't deny the curious nature of his masculinity or lack thereof.

Titus said...

Shouting Thomas I wouldn't mind having Althouse around my place.

She is pretty dam cute and opioninated. I like that.

Invisible Man said...

That is an amazingly ignorant statement. The "job" follows the President.

Yes, I'm sure all of us would be just as productive working from our ranch than actually at the office. Its 149 times not days. If you could provide some logic that would support anyone's (other than maybe a writer) productivity when working from their vacation house over the office on that regular of a basis I'd love to hear it.

Invisible Man said...

If only I dressed well enough or were good looking enough to set of anyone's gaydar.

So your a "bear". Hey man, I'm not judging.

John said...

"Yes, I'm sure all of us would be just as productive working from our ranch than actually at the office. Its 149 times not days. If you could provide some logic that would support anyone's (other than maybe a writer) productivity when working from their vacation house over the office on that regular of a basis I'd love to hear it."

I think if I had a staff of a couple of hundred, a couple of huge ass helicoptors to fly me and my staff around and a communications set up the likes of which God has never seen, I could manage to be pretty damned productive at home. Give it up. No one is buying the comparision.

John said...

"So your a "bear". Hey man, I'm not judging."

A little better looking than that. But, I will admit, Obama would do a lot better at a gay bar than I probably would. Good for him I guess.

Kansas City said...

Invisible Man,

I think it is an interesting point (if true) that Bush traveled to Crawford 149 times during 8 years. Alex also makes the valid point that Bush could perform work at Crawford, but it still seems like a lot of time.

FDR, Truman, Nixon and especially Reagan legitimized the practice of a president working away from the White House. Personally, I would prefer they stay at the White House and, if they need time away, go up to Camp David where I assume serious work can be performed.

It may be that as Obama's star continues to fall, some of this criticism of his life style will increase.

John as to Obama being gay, I doubt it. He is effeminate in some respects, but are you serous that the comment "certain jocular familiarity with the men that he doesn’t have with the women" is a dog whistle for gay?

Roger J. said...

IM--you do have difficulty with the concept of telecommuting--with as others have pointed out the accoutrements that go with the presidency--you are genuinely a dim bulb and at least one burrito short of a combination plate. but of course you arent--you are just playing stepin fetchit here for the rubes.

John said...

"John as to Obama being gay, I doubt it. He is effeminate in some respects, but are you serous that the comment "certain jocular familiarity with the men that he doesn’t have with the women" is a dog whistle for gay?"


Half serious. I was being more flippent than anything. It is a very odd thing to say about someone. What kind of a person in this day and age can't get along and work easily with women. It is a very strange thing to say about someone who has made it to the heights of power in this day and age.

I was being a smart ass and poking the Obamabots when I said it was a "dog wistle for being gay". Actually, if you think about it, it means obama can't function or easilyt relate to women which makes it more of a dog wistle for him being a dork. Considering his Steve Urkel persona, that makes some sense.

Invisible Man said...

A little better looking than that. But, I will admit, Obama would do a lot better at a gay bar than I probably would. Good for him I guess.

Hey, your the one interested in whose gay or not, not him.

former law student said...

First of all, the issue here is how Obama spends his leisure time, not his working hours.

Spending leisure time with other men is normal, right? I did suggest he shoot a little one-on-one with Hillary during the campaign, but he never acted on it.

Obama's sexuality and obvious effeminate nature has always been fuel for the fever swamps of the internet.

So Obama's predilection for hanging out with the guys means he's gay? Then would hanging out with the ladies at baby showers, exchanging cookie recipes indicate he was macho?

I can't remember the last President who liked to shoot Bambi. Carter went fishing, but I suspect that didn't endear him to any "real men."

Hoosier Daddy said...

So, men, how long would you listen to some crazy woman carry on about this crap in your own house before you got the hell out?

Successfully married husbands have long since developed the skills to tune that stuff out. It sounds a lot like the voices of adults in in those Charlie Brown specials.

John said...

"Hey, your the one interested in whose gay or not, not him."

he is the one who can't relate to women.

Invisible Man said...

Half serious. I was being more flippent than anything. It is a very odd thing to say about someone.

C'mon man, your interested in him being gay there's no need to reverse yourself. Like I said I don't judge. I dream of Michelle Bachman in lace, you dream of Obama in a nice suit. To each his own.

PatCA said...

Obama is not effeminate; he is juvenile. There is a difference.

He thinks his idealism and softness make him look sophisticated but they really make look like a college sophomore.

John said...

"So Obama's predilection for hanging out with the guys means he's gay? Then would hanging out with the ladies at baby showers, exchanging cookie recipes indicate he was macho?"

I will defer to Titus on this, but I think gay men come in different varities. One variety is the man who acts as you describe. But another one is the gay man who can't relate to or understand women and only hangs out with other guys.

John said...

"I dream of Michelle Bachman in lace,"

So you like fat women? To each his own I guess.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Ms. Dunn said that she recently hosted a baby shower for an administration official and that no men from the office were invited.

I can almost feel the outrage. I know I'm hurt, dismayed and angered when Mrs. Hoosier tells me she's going to a baby shower and I have to stay home by myself.

Peter V. Bella said...

It is articles like this that prove the media is entertainment. This is not journalism or reportage. It is comic book academic posturing by fuzzy headed intellectual idiots with too much time on their hands.

All of this gender, racial, ethnic garbage is irrelevant. It is what is accomplished that counts- not who or what. Someone better tell the chosen one that accomplishment is not par or three pointers.

John said...

"Successfully married husbands have long since developed the skills to tune that stuff out. It sounds a lot like the voices of adults in in those Charlie Brown specials."

My wife and I call it the 80 20 rule. I filter out 80% of what she says. She thinks it is because I am a bad listener. I have never had the heart or the courage to tell her that it is a coping mechanism.

PatHMV said...

If the President NEVER spoke business on these golf trips, then it certainly wouldn't matter that he brings only men. There's no problem with purely social matters remaining segregated by gender.

But he's the President of the United States, on duty 24 hours a day. Having the opportunity to chat with him for 5 minutes is a big deal; having a few hours in his company in only a very small group of people is HUGE. If you're a woman, say the WH communication director, and the boss invites the junior assistant deputy press secretary to play golf and not you, that means the junior asst. deputy is going to have the boss's ear, to pitch ideas, curry favor, whatever. How do the female junior assistant press secretaries feel about one of their colleagues, with whom they are in constant competition to gain favorable notice and receive promotions or get answers to policy questions, feel about their male colleague receiving an invitation which would never even thought to be extended to them?

Much worse is the comment about the President having a "jocular familiarity" with most men that he lacks with most women staff members. That means that every time the President knows there's a woman in the room, he's not himself, not relaxed, feels a bit tense. If he's got a qualified woman and a qualified man to promote, is he going to pick the one he can use off-color language with, the one he feels more comfortable with, or is he going to pick the one who makes him feel awkward and uncomfortable?

Tibore said...

Hold on a second. While I'm ready and willing to hear criticism about a President I didn't vote for, how is any of this anything more than trivial? No women golf partners? Well, jeez, how many women on Obama's staff golfs to begin with?

To show exclusion, one must demonstrate there was actual exclusion. Simply pointing out that outings had no women in it proves nothing more than that there's a paucity of female golfers in this White House and that the odds against one being included was high. And to be honest, that's such a trivial issue that it's a nontopic.

Furthermore, what's with the whole complaint about "sports bonding"? What, coworkers aren't supposed to bond on a personal level over a shared interest? I though such bonding was supposed to be the epitome of being a good workplace employee.

I mean, honestly, there are other better topics to criticize this administration over. This is trivial. It's so trivial that it's actually petty. This is no topic to engage with and at the same time be considered a serious critic of the administration.

John said...

"I can almost feel the outrage. I know I'm hurt, dismayed and angered when Mrs. Hoosier tells me she's going to a baby shower and I have to stay home by myself."

Even women hate showers. It is just some bizzare torture ritual they inflict on each other.

Invisible Man said...

Obama is not effeminate; he is juvenile. There is a difference.

Ohhhhhhhh! The Althouse commenters are bringing big time today. I'm just waiting for someone to tell us that he's "not eeeven that cool" or that "he's a poseur". Obama's obviously not getting invited to your birthday party this year, PatCA

Tibore said...

Oh, and amen to what Crack Emcee said. He's dead-on right about this.

Titus said...

Obama would be "average" in a gay bar.

He could get some hog but not the prime hog on the menu.

Invisible Man said...

So you like fat women? To each his own I guess.

Michelle Bachman is fat to you? You really are gay.

John said...

"Much worse is the comment about the President having a "jocular familiarity" with most men that he lacks with most women staff members. That means that every time the President knows there's a woman in the room, he's not himself, not relaxed, feels a bit tense. If he's got a qualified woman and a qualified man to promote, is he going to pick the one he can use off-color language with, the one he feels more comfortable with, or is he going to pick the one who makes him feel awkward and uncomfortable?"


That is true of a lot of men. And you can thank feminism and sexual harrasment suits for it being so. You can't treat women like you do men because if you say the wrong thing around a man, he might not like you. If you do that in front of a woman, she can and sometimes does sue. Feminists have done their best to poison gendger relations and ensure women can never totally be one of the group.

John said...

"Michelle Bachman is fat to you? You really are gay."

My mistake. I misread. I saw Michelle and thought it said Michelle Obama, which I thought was a very wierd response. Michelle Bachman is not fat.

Invisible Man said...

Obama would be "average" in a gay bar.

Completely non-partisan, semi-serious question Titus. What president, other than the probably obvious John Kennedy, does best at a gay club?

Invisible Man said...

My mistake. I misread. I saw Michelle and thought it said Michelle Obama, which I thought was a very wierd response. Michelle Bachman is not fat.

Oh, John. Your a nasty little hussy aren't you.

Roger J. said...

OK--I am going on record as saying I do refer larger ladies--fat is very pejorative. larger ladies are where its at

have a nice day

Shanna said...

I can almost feel the outrage. I know I'm hurt, dismayed and angered when Mrs. Hoosier tells me she's going to a baby shower and I have to stay home by myself.

Guys are not invited to regular baby showers, but they are always (in my experience) invited to the office ones. It would be rude to exclude people from an office party. Of course, it is always fun to watch the guys passing around the baby clothes and fake oohing and ahhing over them.

I will so I don't care if he has golf with the guys or basketball with the guys, except that it may be bad politics. If the women want to play golf with the guys, they first have to actually learn golf and be good enough to fit in with whatever handicap Obama plays at. There may be women in his office who do, but then again there may not be. Who cares.

Scott M said...

What president, other than the probably obvious John Kennedy, does best at a gay club?

Obviously it's Teddy Roosevelt. He just doesn't take no for an answer.

As to the topic at hand, I saw a CNN panel discussion on this very topic yesterday and one of the female talking heads said that this is a huge issue with women on the Hill. When she asked one of them (an unnamed dem) to go on the show yesterday after admitting it bothers a lot of the ladies in Congress, she responded, "so you want me to go on national TV and call the president sexist? No way."

(insert hypocritical insult here)

Seneca the Younger said...

If there is any serious feminism left in this country — by which I mean the kind of feminism we had back before the Clinton presidency — it would ream a man who sought credit for inclusiveness toward women by referring to the fact that he had a wife and daughters in his household.

The implications of this conjecture are left as an exercise for the reader.

Shanna said...

Even women hate showers. It is just some bizzare torture ritual they inflict on each other.

Showers have cake! Who could hate that? I'm not sure why you have to get dressed up, though.

John said...

Shanna,

You must really like cake.

traditionalguy said...

I for one admire seeing a strong muslim man's man that does not even allow himself go near the "Red Tee Boxes". As for Hillary, she is not allowed near any of the real diplomatic work. John Kerry does that for the Old Boys Avenue Patriarchy Club that meets at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.

Invisible Man said...

Showers have cake! Who could hate that? I'm not sure why you have to get dressed up, though.

I like cake, what I don't like is being stuck in a place for 3 hours to have it. My sister had her's in July, and while it was ok that was only because it was a family event. Otherwise, I'd rather being doing something gay like playing football.

Hoosier Daddy said...

OK--I am going on record as saying I do refer larger ladies--fat is very pejorative. larger ladies are where its at

I saw Zombieland a couple weeks back and the 1st rule in zombie survival is CARDIO.

Because when the zombies came out, the fatties went first.

AllenS said...

Obama's all man. He's just trying to get away from Biden.

Invisible Man said...

I saw Zombieland a couple weeks back and the 1st rule in zombie survival is CARDIO.

Because when the zombies came out, the fatties went first.


Zombieland wasn't Shaun of the Dead, but it was hilarious. And I still think "Double tap" should come before seat belts as a rule.

Invisible Man said...

Obama's all man. He's just trying to get away from Biden.

That's actually Cheney that your thinking of. Dick has that fatal attraction thing going on.

Maguro said...

That's actually Cheney that your thinking of. Dick has that fatal attraction thing going on.

Actually, more people have been killed driving with Ted Kennedy than hunting with Dick Cheney.

Titus said...

I don't know how about all former presidents looks.

Today, in this diverse country and gay bar scene Obama would do best.

Other possibles:

John Kennedy, natch.
Bill Clinton, in his youth
Al Gore, in his youth, although I know not President would do very well.
Teddy Roosevelt-in bear bars would do well.

thats about it, the rest would be the last one standing with the fag hags at 2:00.

And, I need a caveat here. These presidents//vp's would get second string fags. Mercy fucks. They would not be eliible for prime beef.

former law student said...

If you're a woman, say the WH communication director, and the boss invites the junior assistant deputy press secretary to play golf and not you, that means the junior asst. deputy is going to have the boss's ear, to pitch ideas, curry favor, whatever.

If I'm the boss, trying to get two precious hours away from the office, out in the fresh air, if a subordinate tries to use that time to pitch ideas, curry favor, whatever, I'm going to hit him with my 1-iron (there being no other use for it.)

MadisonMan said...

I agree that it's impossible that the most-qualified candidates for all these positions were each and everyone male.

It's obviously a plot to exclude women.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Oh lets give the guy a break. You can't do real manly things like smoke, drink and tell cooter jokes if there's a babe on the course with you.

Shanna said...

And you can thank feminism and sexual harassment suits for it being so.

I do think this is a factor, but there was also some really gross behavior by men in the past towards female subordinates. My coworker has told me some stuff that women these days just wouldn’t put up with. There has to be some happy medium between the extremes, but I’m not sure the best way to reach it. Although you can blame some feminists for taking it to extreme and you can definitely blame women (or men) who have lied. I believe the pendulum has swung too far and now we have to get it back to a reasonable spot, somehow.

Pogo said...

You want access?
Just sleep with him, ladies.

Problem solved.

paul a'barge said...

Am I the only one who remembers how the old-school feminists castigated GWB for being anti-women and repeatedly the GWB supporters offered a long list of women appointed by GWB. And how that list fell on deaf ears among the feminist/leftists (same thing really).

Now, how does Valerie Jarrett counter these criticisms of B. Hussein Obama?

She offers a list of the women appointed by BHO.

Are you convinced now that it's a Democrat doing the touting and bean counting?

Titus said...

A politican that would do well is that Representative from Peoria, the one with the six pack abs. He's a republican too!!!!!

Russ Feingold could pull some hog too in gay bars. He's pretty cool too. Probably the coolest senator out there.

Oh Deval Patrick could definitely bring some hog home too.

And Gavin Newsom as well.

edutcher said...

Titus said...

Shouting Thomas I wouldn't mind having Althouse around my place.

She is pretty dam cute and opioninated. I like that.


If we agree on nothing else, I'm with you here.

former law student said...

So Obama's predilection for hanging out with the guys means he's gay?

A lot of historians think Cecil Rhodes was on the same evidence.
(No, I'm not giving you an argument, but it seems to be the way a lot of even leftish people think...)

Roger J. said...

OK--I am going on record as saying I do refer larger ladies--fat is very pejorative. larger ladies are where its at

Large and fat are both relative. A buxom woman can be both and be very attractive (think someone like Beverly Sills when she first came to national attention).

Mrs. Obama is a big girl (no offense), but it doesn't look good on her.

Fat is a term that can mean anything any more, as the Althouse gang know. Someone like Kate Winslet, especially in Titanic or the pictures she made right after, would be classed as fat by some (not me).

Scott M said...

@FLS

Spending leisure time with other men is normal, right? I did suggest he shoot a little one-on-one with Hillary during the campaign, but he never acted on it.

So I take it you're okay with the law in NY (still enforced, as far as I remember) that stipulates any private club that has more than X number of members (500 I think) has to open membership to women?

Again, from memory, the basis was that it didn't matter that it was a social club specifically for R&R. Business gets done constantly and not allowing women in was sexist.

Forgetting, of course, the whole sticky issue of free association...

Titus said...

Kate Winslet is not fat now or never has been fat.

She is totally fabulous.

I love her so much.

She is absolutely beautiful.

ironrailsironweights said...

Obama can hardly be blamed for playing basketball with all men. At the risk of being extremely non-P.C., let me point out that including women in a pickup basketball game is going to change the dynamics of play, and not for the better. Even if the men are not particularly skilled at the sport, they're almost certainly going to have a big advantage in strength and athleticism over most (no, not all, but most) women.

Peter

CrankyProfessor said...

In the Academy we have Chilly Climate studies over situations like this all the time - and they're all about perception, not just the numbers.

Sure looks like a Chilly Climate from here.

Synova said...

Way back when, when I had military officer sorts of plans and was hanging out in AFROTC a couple of things were accepted without question. You would learn to play golf passably, if you liked it or not, and you would learn to ballroom dance. Before I gave up on the notion of getting a commission I'd decided that due to my gender and stature (or lack thereof) my career required jump-school so I could wear those little wings on my uniform so I wouldn't have to actually *say* anything to prove I had, after a fashion, balls.

I did decide that the ambition and myself were a rather bad fit after all and gave it up, but I never felt it was that something more or unreasonable was expected of me because I'm a girl. All of the guys had to learn to ballroom dance, too, and learn to play golf (and like it), too, and unless they exuded masculine vitality and even if they *did*, jump wings would have been a career plus for them.

I think that sometimes feminists, even of the old school (but not the old-old school) seem to think that if they don't want to do something they shouldn't have to.

Granted, I'm just a smidge over five feet tall and having to play basketball would piss me off... but even as nonathletic as I am, I don't see any real problem expecting women employees to put on sweats and get sweaty or to participate in various off-time activities appropriate to their age and infirmity. The WH has (used to have?) a bowling ally. My bowling sucks... but doing it and trying shows you're a good sport.

John said...

Titus,

Winslet is a goddess. All woman. Exactly what a woman should be from her real breasts to hour glass figure to her actual body hair as opposed to being shaved to look like a 10 year old.

Freeman Hunt said...

Doesn't Obama have some friends to play basketball with?

Isn't that what professionals do, pal around with friends not colleagues, if they're being careful not to engage in sexist workplace exclusion?

kentuckyliz wins the thread for dishing out multiple LOLs.

Synova said...

"Why don't we say "czarina"? We've got these new positions and the title you get is male-specific. It's as if were were calling the Secretary of State "Mr. Secretary.""

Because someone decided that the feminized versions were diminutive. Aviatrix? Actress? Maybe they are. Maybe they were. Maybe if we just used them they'd cease to be.

DADvocate said...

He presides over a White House rife with fist-bumping young men who call each other “dude” and testosterone-brimming personalities like Rahm Emanuel, the often-profane chief of staff; Lawrence Summers, the brash economic adviser; and Robert Gibbs, the press secretary, who habitually speaks in sports metaphors....

Puhlease, at their best and my best (and my buddies), we would have eaten these wusses for lunch on the basketball court, football field, etc. A bunch of pseudo-macho wannabe's.

Bush had more minorities and women in his Cabinet, etc. than Clinton. I wonder how Obama measures up.

Of course, feminism sold out during the Clinton years. It began with the "drag a $20 bill through a trailer court" comment and went down hill from there. Hell, some rape is even OK by feminists nowadays.

Freeman Hunt said...

If I'm the boss, trying to get two precious hours away from the office, out in the fresh air, if a subordinate tries to use that time to pitch ideas, curry favor, whatever, I'm going to hit him with my 1-iron (there being no other use for it.)

If I'm the boss, trying to get two precious hours away from the office, out in the fresh air, I'm not inviting anyone from the office to come with me.

John said...

I have met Emmanuel. He is doing well to be 5'6 is looks to be in lousy shape. He couldn't beat my 10 year old niece in basketball.

garage mahal said...

There are at least 30 pro-rape Republicans in Congress. And that's just the ones we know of, that voted against Franken's defense contractor anti-rape amendment. Think of how many more there really are!

Synova said...

"Her husband has to sit and listen to this shit every night. That is, if they live together.

So, men, how long would you listen to some crazy woman carry on about this crap in your own house before you got the hell out?
"

Gawd... you ever think that maybe the hard one to live with is YOU?

Shanna said...

Doesn't Obama have some friends to play basketball with?

Apparently not.

John said...

Nice to see that Garage forgot to take his meds this morning

Titus said...

Can we all agree that Winslet is beautiful, fabulous and all womman?

I love her more than you can know.

Her last couple of movies were astounding. She made me love women more than ever.

She is the real deal.

Thank you Kate Winslet, for being you, a fabulous, beautiful woman. No surgery or cosmetics.

ironrailsironweights said...

Exactly what a woman should be from her real breasts to hour glass figure to her actual body hair as opposed to being shaved to look like a 10 year old.

Nothing is finer than a thick, rich, luxuriant bush, overflowing with magnificent concentrated aromas and flavors.

Peter

Freeman Hunt said...

Hypothetical. What do you think the spouses prefer?

(a) To hear about spouse regularly out cavorting and bonding with same sex pals.

(b) To hear about spouse regularly out cavorting and bonding in mixed company.

Shanna said...

I think I can guess which one Michelle prefers, Freeman.

Synova said...

"There are at least 30 pro-rape Republicans in Congress. And that's just the ones we know of, that voted against Franken's defense contractor anti-rape amendment. Think of how many more there really are!"

So, garage, is Franken's defense contractor anti-rape amendment (amendment to what?) actually a good law that is workable and will do what it is meant to do and is not attached to any other unsatisfactory bill? Or is the most and only important thing that it is sort of about a particular problem and as a bonus provides the political cover to call anyone opposing it "pro-rape."

I'm not at all impressed. It's juvenile and stupid and how we get the worst possible laws when our representatives pass things, vote yes on things they should vote no on because garage mahal is going to flit around the internet calling them pro-rape.

Well bravo to them! Because I'm impressed by anyone who refuses to be manipulated that way. That is admirable and should be applauded.

The need to "do something" to appear to "care" and pat themselves on the back for bad laws and bad legislation is repulsive and the bums should be thrown from office.

DADvocate said...

garage - I'm talking about real rape of a 13 year old girl. Not some hypothetical, twisted logic bullshit you're dreaming up.

A vote against a bill doesn't indicate saying rape is OK any more than voting against the VAWA says domestic violence is OK. The VAWA is a bad law biased against half the population, men.

Several feminist have said Polanski's rape of a 13 year old girl wasn't all that bad. It wasn't rape-rape, you know.

Try living in reality.

John said...

Republicans are pro rape. But ACORN is doing God's work even though they have numerous employees in numerous locations who have no problem assisting in selling underage girls into prostitution.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Rumor has it Barry and Joe are really super heros named Ace and Gary. What's everybody looking at?

Joe said...

Seems to me that we'd all be better off if Obama did nothing but golf, especially if he took certain senators and representatives with him.

Synova said...

"Mrs. Obama is a big girl (no offense), but it doesn't look good on her."

Mrs. Obama is tall. Not even supermodels are usually that tall and tall women seldom look petite (because they are tall). They are tall, have a large frame (because they are tall) and big feet (because they are tall.)

John said...

"Several feminist have said Polanski's rape of a 13 year old girl wasn't all that bad. It wasn't rape-rape, you know."

Come on. You know as well as I do that it is not "rape-rape" when leftists do it.

Tibore said...

"Freeman Hunt said...
Hypothetical. What do you think the spouses prefer?

(a) To hear about spouse regularly out cavorting and bonding with same sex pals."


Well, remember, Ross on Friends was of the same mindset about Carol, and look where it got him. ;-)



... Yes, yes, people, this is a pop culture joke.

garage mahal said...

garage - I'm talking about real rape of a 13 year old girl. Not some hypothetical, twisted logic bullshit you're dreaming up.

I'm talking about "real" rape as well. I didn't know there were conditions on rape. Guess so!

Beaverdam said...

Cavorting? I'm not sure how to cavort. Little help Titus.

John said...

I guess then you think garage that every Dem who voted against cutting off funding to ACORN is pro underage prostitution?

Rialby said...

Well, as anyone on the Left knows, there's rape and there's rape-rape. Rape-rape only happens when someone is raped by a Republican.

DADvocate said...

I didn't know there were conditions on rape.

To the current day feminist there is.

XWL said...

In Obama's defense, I don't think it's because he's not a feminist that he doesn't hang out with more women, or have them in closer positions within the administration (while his administration is 50-50 as he states, seems the closer to the POTUS with daily access positions, are overwhelmingly male). I think it's because he's frightened what his wife would do if she even suspected he might slip up and pull a "Lewinsky". Somehow, I don't think her own Senate seat would be enough to placate Michelle.

So better for Pres. Obama to remove all potential for temptation.

He's just henpecked, that's all.

(See: Christie, Doug)

Youngblood said...

Garage,

The Defense Department is also against the "anti-rape" amendment. The Defense department is part of the Obama administration. This means that the Obama administration is pro-rape too, right?

Right?

Of course it doesn't. It means that the "pro-rape" Obama administration has concerns about the implementation and implications of the amendment... just like the thirty "pro-rape" representatives in Congress.

But don't let the truth stand in the way of your dim-witted propaganda!

Maguro said...

I would've thought thought rape was already illegal. Was there a loophole somewhere that permits defense contractors to rape people?

holdfast said...

Mr. Obama’s inner circle includes Mr. Gibbs, Mr. Emanuel and his senior adviser, David Axelrod (“The Boys,” as they are known to some female staff members).

Good God that is damning - I always figured that Gibbsy was there as a kind of sacrificial lamb - that he was just sent out blind and ignorant to absorb the sling and arrows of Fox and Jake Tapper. But to make this schlemiel a member of your inner circle? The mind boggles.

I don't suppose that anyone recalled that one of Bush's best football buddies was his female, black NSA/SecState? Oh right, but Republicans are all misogynistic racists.

Synova said...

"I would've thought thought rape was already illegal. Was there a loophole somewhere that permits defense contractors to rape people?"

My understanding is that it's a jurisdictional issue. The military takes it's jurisdiction and judicial system with it where ever it goes. Does the State Department do something similar? The civilian elements of the DoD? I don't know. But contractors overseas are not under US jurisdiction, can't be under the military, and the only other option is turning them over to the locals. At least that is my understanding.

garage mahal said...

I guess then you think garage that every Dem who voted against cutting off funding to ACORN is pro underage prostitution?

Yes, let's cut off funding to someone advising fake prostitutes how to make imaginary crimes. And let's keep the funding to Halliburton, who is committing real gang rape!

miller said...

Why do people *choose* to be derailed by garage?

AC245 said...

Garage Nifong,

Perhaps you could drag Obama away from his golf games with the boys long enough to get him to do or say something about this epidemic of government-sponsored rapes?

It's odd, isn't it, that Obama has plenty of time for his sports and his Fox-bashing whinefests with lefty talk show hosts, but is too busy to come up with an Afghanistan strategy or to speak out against government-sponsored rapes.

jeff said...

"Yes, let's cut off funding to someone advising fake prostitutes how to make imaginary crimes."

Yes, let's keep funding someone advising fake prostitutes how to make imaginary crimes.

Huh. Equally silly.

Maguro said...

Yes, let's cut off funding to someone advising fake prostitutes how to make imaginary crimes. And let's keep the funding to Halliburton, who is committing real gang rape!

Ah, yes..."Halliburton" is committing rapes left and right, as though "Halliburton" is an actual person. Please, one KBR employee made allegations of rape, which the DOJ declined to prosecute.

Franken's bill would prevent companies from inserting no-litigation clauses into their contracts. It wouldn't do anything to prevent rape.

And, as others have noted, Obama's own DoD opposes the amendment. So, as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Synova said...

And the analogy is correct, garage, and you're bright enough to realize it.

Opposing a bill does not make one pro-rape. You know it. All the liberals going for this "spin" know it. It's opportunist political spin.

Politicians even set this stuff up on purpose, even write up bills they know will fail, that are bad bills, that will never actually fix what they are supposedly supposed to fix... just so they can say they tried, that they *care* and that the other guy HATES "fill in blank here."

You know better. You know very well that someone can be "for" caring and helping or "against" rape or other crime and still think that a particular bill is wrong or a bad idea. So why the pretend outrage and the repeated political spin?

David said...

Let him golf, already, and play basketball. He gets to blow off a little steam, doesn't he?

As to NYT, have you ever seen a more timid, stupid article? What a mess. Does anyone dare just say that Obama doesn't care much for female advice? Except for Jarrett, who in his inner circle is female?

Sotomayor? He had to nominate a woman. Then he had his minons tell her how to dress. How condescending is that?

Bush had strong, tough women in his inner circle, and they had been there for quite a while before he became President.

When you have a 27 year old frat boy who can't hold his beer and feels up cardboard cutouts of Hillary Clinton as chief speechwriter, the tone is pretty well set.

Obama is a fraud.

But damn he has a quick first step to his left!

garage mahal said...

Franken's bill would prevent companies from inserting no-litigation clauses into their contracts. It wouldn't do anything to prevent rape.

Incorrect. Frankens amendment says that an employment dispute ( in this case rape) arising from a civil rights or sexual harassment claim cannot be bound to an arbitration clause in the employment contract. In other words, if you are raped, you get access to the courts.

So, as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about..

As usual, I do.

knox said...

I enjoyed the first few showers I went to. Then it just gets old. Even the ones with games. Just sheer torture.

With that said, they still have to be more fun than golf.

Synova said...

Oh, for pete's sake... RAPE is not sexual harassment. It's criminal.

Do other criminal activities, say someone murdered someone, end up sent to arbitration?

Maguro said...

Incorrect. Frankens amendment says that an employment dispute ( in this case rape) arising from a civil rights or sexual harassment claim cannot be bound to an arbitration clause in the employment contract. In other words, if you are raped, you get access to the courts.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. An "arbitration clause" is the same thing as a "no-litigation clause".

In any case, it wouldn't prevent a single rape. And honestly, the effect of this legislation will be that contractors won't hire females in the first place because they'll be afraid of getting sued. Yay, another blow for women's rights.

Youngblood said...

"I would've thought thought rape was already illegal. Was there a loophole somewhere that permits defense contractors to rape people?"

Well, to be clear, Garage was lying when he suggested that the amendment was "anti-rape". It isn't, really. It's about employment contracts.

Here's the text of the amendment:

S. Amndt. 2588 to H.R. 3326 – None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for any existing or new Federal contract if the contractor or a subcontractor at any tier requires that an employee or independent contractor, as a condition of employment, sign a contract that mandates that the employee or independent contractor performing work under the contract or subcontract resolve through arbitration any claim under title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or any tort related to or arising out of sexual assault or harassment, including assault and battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, or negligent hiring, supervision, or retention.

Synova said...

In any case... if that's all Franken's bill does, it doesn't even BEGIN to address the problem of rape by contractors in foreign countries because even if it DID ensure access to the courts... what courts!

That's the problem.

And if Franken wasn't so freaking PRO-RAPE he'd have realized that.

Yet another do-nothing solve-nothing measure to spin the world as "I care!"

Well, good for Franken. If he wasn't pro-rape he'd have tried something that *worked*.

Invisible Man said...

I don't suppose that anyone recalled that one of Bush's best football buddies was his female, black NSA/SecState? Oh right, but Republicans are all misogynistic racists.

That would have been ok if Bush wasn't making Condi serve him entree's in a maid dress.

Kevin said...

Heh. "testosterone-brimming personalities like Rahm Emanuel.. Lawrence Summers... and Robert Gibbs...."

Only the NYT would think those three passive-aggressive nancy boys somehow instantiated bold masculinity.

Emanuel, the ballet dancer, who likes to talk in military terms but never actually, you know, served in the military. (He was some kind of Red Cross donut dolly for the Israeli Army. How manly).

Larry Summers, best noted for a 100-lb. brain rather than manhood, if any, and a guy beaten into abject retreat by the angry harpies of Harvard feminism, led by a "scientist" who studies how women feel about science.

Robin Gibbs, fat, sleek, prissy, and effeminate.

Jesus, can you imagine what the men at the Times are like for these ... males ... to be "testosterone-brimming?" If Rahm or Robin is "testosterone-brimming," he'd better spit it out, it's not his. (Actually, I apologise for the insult to actual homosexuals. I'm sure a lot of them are more manly than that gang, and regret the offence, even as I commit it).

Youngblood said...

"In any case... if that's all Franken's bill does, it doesn't even BEGIN to address the problem of rape by contractors in foreign countries because even if it DID ensure access to the courts... what courts!"

U.S. courts. The impetus for this amendment was the case of Jamie Leigh Jones, who was forced into a lengthy legal battle with KBR just to get the matter into open court. So the answer is: U.S. courts.

That's a civil case, though. As far as criminal cases, Republican and Democratic observers agree that the U.S. did have jurisdiction in Jones's case, although KBR apparently destroyed evidence in an attempt to keep the criminal trial from taking place.

The answer there again would be: U.S. courts.

Youngblood said...

Miller wrote:

"Why do people *choose* to be derailed by garage?"

I can't speak for anyone else, but it helps me to learn. Garage said something that didn't pass the smell test, I went and looked into it myself, and learned things that I wouldn't have otherwise.

former law student said...

Emanuel, the ballet dancer, who likes to talk in military terms but never actually, you know, served in the military.

So conservatives can't respect Rahm the way they can John Kerry or Al Gore?

Here's what Rahm did for Israel, according to Haarets:

In 1991, during the first Gulf War, Emanuel flew to Israel and volunteered in Sar-El, the Israel Defense Forces program for civilian volunteers, at a base in the north, performing the unglamorous task of rust-proofing brakes on military vehicles.

So Rahm performed a task necessary to the mission, while freeing up a trained soldier to defend Israel. The vast bulk of our military fills support roles, too.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1104187.html

Synova said...

Youngblood... explain how the US had jurisdiction in the case of a criminal act committed by a US civilian overseas?

If there *is* a jurisdiction that counts and an agency responsible for investigating the crime, and civil courts available, then there isn't a problem except education on who to report a crime to.

If the jurisdiction is not clear and the responsible government agency not clear, then it needs to be clarified and probably codified.

A contract restriction that exempts only certain sorts of non-criminal bad behavior from arbitration doesn't *do* that.

veni vidi vici said...

Everyone with two eyes and a brain saw this coming with, "You're likeable enough, Hillary."


wv: "shedist" -- Shedist Obama but he don't care, da homiez gotz his back.

AllenS said...

Invisible Man said...
"Obama's all man. He's just trying to get away from Biden. [quote from me, AllenS]

That's actually Cheney that your [sic] thinking of. Dick has that fatal attraction thing going on."

I checked your profile and I see that you're from Africa. Let me get you up to speed. Cheney isn't Obama's VP, Biden is.

veni vidi vici said...

wv: "ledhog" -- Titus' reaction to the Tom Jones album title, "The lead and how to swing it."

Freeman Hunt said...

Is it healthy to have as your best friends a bunch of people who answer directly to you at work?

Audities said...

Lets see, among Bush's cloest advisors were Condi Rice, Harriet Miers, and Karen Hughes.

And meanwhile (dateline 09/15/09):

Condoleezza Rice joins exclusive, formerly white-only golf club

Christy said...

So Daddy was right when he told me I'd be an outcast unless I learned to play a decent round of golf!

Gabriel Hanna said...

If the President NEVER spoke business on these golf trips, then it certainly wouldn't matter that he brings only men. There's no problem with purely social matters remaining segregated by gender.

I think this is the best comment so far.

Whoever the President hangs out with on his own time is his business. Sometimes you need to be out with the guys.

But if "the guys" are people you work with, that's a whole different story. It's not fair to do stuff with people you work with and only invite "the guys" or "the girls".

If the President spent his golf time with his male friends, I'd have nothing to say.

Youngblood said...

Synova wrote:

"Youngblood... explain how the US had jurisdiction in the case of a criminal act committed by a US civilian overseas?"

CPA Order 17, which was in effect at the time, put contractors outside the jurisdiction of Iraqi law enforcement. Therefore, jurisdiction would seem to default to the definition offered in Title 18, Part I, Chapter 1, § 7 of the United States Code.

This argument has been put forth by people on both sides of the aisle with a better grasp of the law than I, and it seems reasonable.

In theory, that's how things should work.

In practice in the case I'm referring to, the Department of Justice declined to pursue the matter and indicated that it was up to KBR and Jamie Leigh Jones to settle under the terms of their contract.

The contract that Jamie Lee Jones signed restricted her from taking KBR to court. This meant that the only option open to her, legally, was arbitration.

"A contract restriction that exempts only certain sorts of non-criminal bad behavior from arbitration doesn't *do* that."

Go back up and read what I wrote in this thread before. I don't think that Franken's amendment is good legislation. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on this point.

However, I don't think that it's undesirable to establish a clear legal framework that says, basically, that if a corporation wants money from the federal government, it cannot require U.S. citizens to sign away their rights as a term of employment.

Maguro said...

However, I don't think that it's undesirable to establish a clear legal framework that says, basically, that if a corporation wants money from the federal government, it cannot require U.S. citizens to sign away their rights as a term of employment.

I see no reason why government contractors should be prohibited from applying arbitration clauses like any other company would. If Al Franken feels that arbitration clauses are morally or ethically wrong, he should work on repealing the Arbitration Act of 1925.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Successfully married husbands have long since developed the skills to tune that stuff out. It sounds a lot like the voices of adults in in those Charlie Brown specials.

..............I'm sorry were you saying something?

The idea that Obama should be playing basketball and didn't invite women to play as some sort of a diss on women is just stupid. With the exception of a very few women, my daughter being one, most women are not able to compete with men in a physical contact sport like basketball.

The more troubling issue is the chauvinism observed during the campaign and his positioning of women in low level, for show only positions. This and the terrible disrespect that Hillary is receiving drive home the point that Obama is a self absorbed chauvinistic boor.

former law student said...

Doesn't Obama have some friends to play basketball with?

Men don't have friends the way women have friends. Other than the friends of one's youth, you make temporary friends from work, your neighbors if you stay put long enough, or you hang out with your wife's girlfriends' significant others. (Church people have church members as another source of male friends.) Obama will be hard pressed to casually make friends now that he's the POTUS.

So if someone shows up in DC that Obama knows from Punahou, Oxy, Columbia, or HLS, Obama could play basketball with him.

Or Rezko, if he ever gets out of prison.

stiv said...

149 times in 8 years works out to one and a half times a month, every month....kinda unbelievable

almost as unbelievable as how gorgeous is Kate Winslet

jpr9954 said...

And another thing...I just read that Obama's favorite drink is a vodka martini (sic). Martinis are made with gin - the other thing is white wine and bland, tasteless alcohol. At least FDR drank the real thing.

To top it all off, I bet Obama doesn't even like bourbon which is the ultimate sin!

J Lee said...

Gee, you'd think if Obama had this sort of attitude towards treating women as equals it would have shown up sometime during last year's campaign. Good thing nothing ever happened that Obama could be questioned about by the rest of the media.

careen said...

I have very limited sympathy here.

His supporters, male and female, made it very clear whilst shitting on Hillary during the primaries that it doesn't bother them and they are not interested. That was one of the main social points of the campaign.

el polacko said...

face it ann, most folks (male and female) just don't 'get' sexism.
look no further than most of the comments here. why, only a shrill harpie would complain about government being a 'boy's club'..it's the natural order, doncha know ? ugh..we're barely out of the caves.

Shanna said...

I enjoyed the first few showers I went to. Then it just gets old. Even the ones with games. Just sheer torture.

Oh, I forgot about games. I do loathe games. It really depends on who is at the shower, I guess.

With that said, they still have to be more fun than golf.

Definately. I'm with Mark Twain on golf.