August 28, 2009

"I don’t know if you know this or not, but one of his favorite topics of humor was indeed Chappaquiddick itself."

"And he would ask people, 'have you heard any new jokes about Chappaquiddick?' That is just the most amazing thing. It’s not that he didn’t feel remorse about the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, but that he still always saw the other side of everything and the ridiculous side of things, too."

That is a quote, not from one of Teddy Kennedy's enemies, but from Ed Klein, who was a close friend.

Listen to the audio:



It's apparent that Klein imagines that joking about Chappaquiddick was an endearing trait.

(Thanks to Fred4Pres for the tip.)

ADDED: All the funniest comedians wear a neck brace.

AND: If Teddy always "saw the other side of everything and the ridiculous side of things," then that's an open invitation. Despite his death, we can make all the Teddy Kennedy jokes we want. If anyone should see fit to criticize us, they need to know: Teddy wouldn't have wanted it that way. Don't defile the memory of the man by drawing the line on humor.

155 comments:

Pogo said...

Yeah, those jokes always cracked up the Kopechne parents, too.

Rialby said...

When the books are written about Ted - and they will be - they will make the Michael Kelly piece in GQ look tame. The man was as charming as any sonofabitch but ultimately a horribly flawed human being

Bissage said...

Such a sense of humor is one of the ways you can spot someone who feels completely safe and powerful.

PatCA said...

I heard this audio this morning and was horrified.

Can anyone doubt the unquestioned and absolute contempt that these "men of the people" feel for the actual people?

Rialby said...

By the way, if you really want to mourn a loss this week, go read this piece and then mourn the loss of Michael Kelly, a extraordinarily talented writer and reporter, killed in Iraq in 2003:

A Sober Look at Ted Kennedy

Ah Pooh said...

Senator Kennedy - a shallow man filled with insolent talk.

The Drill SGT said...

I don't think he felt any remorse about her death. I think he felt disappointment that bad luck screwed up his chance to be President.


Note in the audio, they got the hook out for Klein and took a break. When they return, they didnt bring the topic up again.

Michael Hasenstab said...

Such a charmed life, to kill another, not be held accountable, and later in life, joke about it with one's cronies during happy hour, and then be accorded burial in Arlington National Cemetary.

I'm glad that Camelot has ended.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

Theyuh was a young Senatuh from Mayuss,
Who wanted a nyew piece of ayuss.
He lucked out ... and found heuh,
But fucked up ... and drowned heuh.
And the What Howoos slipped owt of his grayusp.

Joan said...

What struck me is not that he would joke about Chappaquiddick, but that it was his favorite thing to joke about. The occasional foray into gallows humor is one thing, but Klein's emphatic use of the word "favorite" somehow made it much worse to me.

Joan said...

... and can we comment on what kind of a person Klein is that he would think that the subject of Kennedy's favorite joke wasn't just OK but was worthy of mention to highlight how wonderful Kennedy's sense of humor was?

It's easy to see why the two were friends.

Skipper50 said...

Interesting that the interviewer responded not to that amazing "reveleation".

Freeman Hunt said...

Oh. My.

Yow.

Imagine how awkward for his friends. Just imagine you had a friend who had committed manslaughter and he said, "Hey, heard any more jokes about that time I killed somebody? Har har har."

Uh....

Pogo said...

I especially liked Ted's joke where he made a human sandwich with a reluctant waitress and Sen. Dodd.

It's a real scream. Well, at least she screamed.

Freeman Hunt said...

Of course, I guess if you have a bunch of ghoulish friends who find that sort of thing charming, it isn't awkward.

Back in hicksville where killing people and not exhibiting remorse for it is considered bad taste, a joke like that doesn't go over so well. We are so backward, I know.

CrankyProfessor said...

I think that's worse than anything I ever imagined about him.

David said...

Ted Kennedy liked Chappaquiddick jokes because "he always saw the other side of things" according to Klein.

Unfuckingbelievable.

He did not see the other side of this, to be sure, nor does Klein, who must be an amazing asshole to find this story about EFK attractive.

I tend to think of Mary Joe, in the cold dark water, her face against the roof of the car, panicked and gasping for air.

Ted said he dove several times to try to free her. Based on the rest of his conduct that night and the next morning, it's impossible to believe him.

The "other side" of Chappaquiddick is even worse than the surface. It is an irresponsible powerful man recklessly killing a young woman, and then reacting by trying to figure out how to save his own ass politically, not her life. Why else would he have walked past lighted houses with phones?

Then he jokes about it for the rest of his life? Dear God.

Freeman Hunt said...

Sounds like something from a cocktail party in Hell.

"Ha ha ha. There are so many hilarious jokes about me killing someone? Heard any good ones? I love them!"

AJ Lynch said...

Fing media - how they protect the ones they adore.

I'd love to see anyone in the MSM drive up to Wilkes Barre and try to find a few people who knew the Kopechnes to learn how they really felt about Ted Kennedy.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Note in the audio, they got the hook out for Klein and took a break. When they return, they didnt bring the topic up again.

I think that's what is known as "Oh shit, did I just say that out loud?"

AJ Lynch said...

Don't forget Mary Jo was their only child.

Can you imagine what this did to them?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

More tone deaf musings from the echo chamber.

Hey, at least Ed wasn't afraid to mention the incident (unlike most others in the MSM who pretend that it didn't happen).

Freeman Hunt said...

I think that's worse than anything I ever imagined about him.

Same.

I had assumed he felt very very badly about all of that and wouldn't dare joke about it.

"It is so fun to be powerful! Yay! He he he. I can get away with anything! Yippee! Don't you all think that is SO funny? I do. It is SO funny."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I'm glad that Camelot has ended.

The "real" Camelot didn't end too well either.

Unfortunately, as peace settled over the country things turned sour within the court of Camelot and civil war broke out. In the final battle at Camlan both Arthur and Mordred, Arthur's traitorous nephew, were mortally wounded. Arthur was set upon a boat and floated down river to the isle of Avalon

EDH said...

Remember how I kidnapped that 11 year-old girl, raped her and kept her and our illegitimate children locked-up in my backyard in squalor for 19 years?

What a hoot!

Did I mention how sorry I am and how much better I'm doing now?

[Cue the NPR/BBC Jazz Piano segue music.]

AllenS said...

After reading that, I'm glad the son of a bitch is dead. I hope he suffered.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The "real" Camelot didn't end too well either.

Well I always pictured the fat drunken slob as Modred anyway.

L. E. Lee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
L. E. Lee said...

Ann, if you cared about the truth you could have easily ascertained that Mr. Klein was not a friend of Senator Kennedy. Instead, he has made a career off of slandering not only the Kennedy family but Hillary Clinton as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/10/AR2005071001187.html

traditionalguy said...

The lesson here is the same as The Great Gatsby conclusion:"The rich are not like us". The power of money and politics fairly won by Joe Kennedy was his sons' heritage and they never thought twice about using it on weak people hanging around them, especially for near daily sexual conquests. That was all they lived for, not for the poor people in America, which was only their PR craft used when maintaining elected Political Power. Ask the dead Marilyn Monroe how much Kennedy men ever cared anything about her life? So Kopechne's accidental death was probably as important to Teddy as his hitting a dog in the road. The political use by his adversaries of that accident must have seemed terribly unfair to him. She was only one of the hundreds poor females he was entitled to screw around with; And poor Teddy never even got to screw Mary Jo that night because of that stupid bridge. So have a heart for Teddy who did the best he was capable of doing.

L. Ron Halfelven said...

This sure changes my mind about that whole nihil nisi bonum thing. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

L. E. Lee said...

Ann, you also seem to be stretching to come up with a justification for the hateful words that were posted on your blog the day Senator Kennedy died. Passing on this lie by a well known Kennedy hater as fact should be beneath you. But, I guess it is not.

Shame on you Ann.

David said...

Mr. Lee:

There is no excusing this one.

Klein was a friend of Kennedy in the Washington sense. They used each other mutually for years, had a relationship that looked like friendship. These people have no friends, which is why the "get a dog" joke is so enduring. But they know each other well. Kennedy and Klein knew each other well enough that Kennedy would make and seek these horrible jokes in Klein's presence.

David said...

Mr Lee:

I was critical of the unstintingly negative comments here after Kennedy's death. Grave dancing is unattractive, I think I said.

Too bad Senator Kennedy did not realize that.

AllenS said...

LE Lee you miserable motherfucking fool. Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaiTipTtbak

Dogwood said...

Such a vile creature.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Ann, you also seem to be stretching to come up with a justification for the hateful words that were posted on your blog the day Senator Kennedy died.

Well for anyone with any sense of humanity, they wouldn't need any justification for despising a person who through their own negligence, left someone to drown, run off like a whipped dog and then run off to daddy's lawyers to save his political career.

The fact that the fat fuck spent the rest of his life in the bottle and diving into the pants of anything with a vagina is sufficient reinforcement for me to despise the guy as it shows he didn't learn much from killing someone.

Ann Althouse said...

Klein was a "Kennedy hater"? I don't have that information. From what I'm looking at, he's a friend. I didn't do additional research. If Klein wasn't a friend, I'll do an update.

As for what people wrote in the comments on this blog on the day of TK's death, I didn't read much of it, and I'm not interested one way or the other in justifying, explaining, or excusing it. I wrote what I wrote on the front page. Go back and read those posts, and find a basis for criticizing me if you want.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

It's altogether too credible.

Kennedy named his most recent dog "Splash."

AJ Lynch said...

Michael Vick is being crucified for doing to dogs what Kennedy did to a human being.

What does that say about us?

Florida said...

"I think he felt disappointment that bad luck screwed up his chance to be President."

Would that it were only bad luck!

Teddy Kennedy was cheating on his wife, at a party where he got drunk, driving a car while plastered. All choices ... not luck.

The luck began the next day, when the police and the press began the process of helping Ted Kennedy stay out of jail, where he belonged.

Kennedy was lucky that his brothers were assassinated. He wa forgiven all his transgressions based solely on our sorrow over those two events, and nothing more.

Otherwise, he was just another Washington Senatorial scumbag.

If there is a God, Mary Jo Kopeckne now rests in peace and Teddy Kennedy is burning in hell.

Revenant said...

can we comment on what kind of a person Klein is that he would think that the subject of Kennedy's favorite joke wasn't just OK but was worthy of mention to highlight how wonderful Kennedy's sense of humor was?

I was thinking the same thing.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Michael Vick is being crucified for doing to dogs what Kennedy did to a human being.

What does that say about us?


Well Dante Stallworth did a Ted Kennedy and only spent 28 days in jail for it so go figure.

L. E. Lee said...

Bullshit David. Look at what kind of books Ed Klein has written. In the first chapter of his 2005 book "The Truth About Hillary" (yes, that is the title) Klein wrote

" Was it true they slept in separate beds? Were there any telltale signs on the presidential sheets that they ever had sex with each other? For that matter, did the Big Girl have any interest in sex with a man? Or, as was widely rumored, was she a lesbian?"

Even conservative Fox news disinvited him from pimping his book on their network.

Ann, you got snookered by the right again. If you had any decency you would disassociate yourself from this trash instead of using the "big lie" to justify more hateful trash being posted on your blog. Be decent Ann.

Florida said...

"The fact that the fat fuck spent the rest of his life in the bottle and diving into the pants of anything with a vagina is sufficient reinforcement for me to despise the guy ..."

What is really sad is that he never wanted for female companionship. He was for the rest of his life surrounded by them.

If you want to know why I don't take feminism seriously, this is it.

garage mahal said...

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard from a friend of Ed Morrisey's that he likes to fondle goat testicles. Or enemy, but whatever. I didn't do any research into it, sorry, just wanted to throw that out there. Discuss!

kynefski said...

I'd love to see anyone in the MSM drive up to Wilkes Barre and try to find a few people who knew the Kopechnes to learn how they really felt about Ted Kennedy.

AJ - Working in Wilkes-Barre and living a couple of miles from Mary Jo Kopechne' grave, I can affirm the sentiment. We're a desirable demographic (Catholic, Democratic, fairly conservative) and every presidential election sees a parade of national figures coming through. (Bill Clinton was in town on the evening before the 2008 election.)

But they never - and I'm pretty sure I mean never - sent Ted Kennedy.

Which is fine with me. I was 15 in 1969, and sickened by what it said about power and indifference. This week, reading about what he accomplished as a politician, I wish he could have been a decent human being. But he wasn't.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Lee, why don't you just face the fact that the way Kennedy lived out the remainder of his life certainly gives Klein's comment plausibility.

But being gracious I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt and stipulate it's a lie. Kennedy never joked about it. That said, the fact that Kennedy continued to exhibit the same reckless behavior that killed Mary Jo pretty much tells me he had little remorse over the matter.

Either way, he's still a scumbag.

Big Mike said...

To anybody else who knows some Yiddish, I think "Klein" is not Ed's surname, merely a description of his level of common sense. Traditionalguy has it right, and I would be willing to bet some serious money that between the Senate staffers and the senators themselves not one in twenty will see anything wrong with Ted's joking, other than the fact that it came out.

My quick prediction: Ed Klein will spend the rest of his about-to-be-shortened career trying to back off from this remark.

d-day said...

Teddy rivals even the HuffPo for bad taste and amorality:

So it doesn't automatically make someone (aka, me) a Limbaugh-loving, aerial-wolf-hunting NRA troll for asking what Mary Jo Kopechne would have had to say about Ted's death, and what she'd have thought of the life and career that are being (rightfully) heralded.

Who knows -- maybe she'd feel it was worth it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-lafsky/the-footnote-speaks-what_b_270298.html

L. E. Lee said...

Ann wrote
"Klein was a "Kennedy hater"? I don't have that information. From what I'm looking at, he's a friend."

Pray tell Ann, what right wing hate web site are you looking at?

You just helped to pass on the "big lie." Real original of you Ann. This is the kind of trash that gives the Internet a bad name.

But at least the Althouse Hillbillies will be sated.

kynefski said...

By the way, with this crowd, I'm astonished not to find the word Volkswagen in this thread.

MJ said...

L.E Lee thinks Klein's negative comments about Hillary Clinton prove him not a friend of Ted Kennedy? How cruel it must be to go through life unable to partake in rationality and logic.

Roger J. said...

if the libtards choose to idolize a sorry and deeply flawed asshole, thats your privilege--it says more about your values and moral standards than the people heaping well deserved opprobrium on a genuine piece of shit.

Have a nice day, BTW

David said...

Mr. Lee:

You are making a fool of yourself by citing things he wrote about Hillary as evidence of his antipathy for Ted Kennedy.

Klein's most recent book is "Ted Kennedy: The ream that Never Died." It's blurbed for it's "unprecedented access" to Kennedy and his intimates. It has some obligatory criticisms but mostly its a hymn to Ted and his "perseverance." It's a Kennedy praise book, and Klein was being interviewed because he knew Kennedy well and was viewed as friendly to him.

Your problem is that you make stuff up to counter uncomfortable facts, Mr. Lee. The uncomfortable fact is that we now know that Kennedy was well known to enjoy joking about the incident in which he killed a young woman, and escaped legal responsibility for his actions.

L. E. Lee said...

MJ, do a quick Internet search of the kind of books Klein wrote about the Kennedy's then say with a straight face "but he was a close friend of Ted Kennedy's!"

Criticize Senator Kennedy all you want but don't be dishonorable schmucks.

Rialby said...

Why would Diane Rehm/Katty Kay - not part of the Right Wing Conspiracy the last time I checked - invite Ed Klein on the show and describe him as a friend of Ted?

Don't attack Ann, attack Diane Rehm/Katty Kay and/or Ed Klein.

MJ said...

Lee,

It's your assertion, if you want anyone to believe it show us something. I don't take assignments from people who can't think straight.

Rialby said...

"Criticize Senator Kennedy all you want but don't be dishonorable schmucks."

Ok, schmuck. Before hearing this account from Ed Klein that Ted Kennedy laughed at the fact that he commited vehicular manslaughter, demonstrated gross criminal negligence and got away with it, I thought he was a scumbag for committing vehicular manslaughter and demonstrating gross criminal negligence. Is that enough pointed criticism for you?

L. E. Lee said...

MJ, but you will take an scurrilously outlandish assertion from Mr. Klein as fact but then turn a blind eye to seeking out his easily ascertained bad reputation.
Like I said don't be a dishonorable schmuck.

Jeremy said...

People, please. Come on now. Don't be dishonorable schmucks. Drown a woman? Sure. But don't be a schmuck. That would be unforgivable.

-The Other Jeremy

Roger J. said...

Ted Kennedy embodies all the best of modern liberalism--enough said. To quote Ted Rall on the death of Ronald Reagan--he is turning a toasty brown...(or some such shit)

Big Mike said...

Well, L.E., as usual you are offering up non sequitors. Ed Klein was on the Diane Rehm show as a friend of the late senator, and where, may I ask, is it written that if one is the friend of Ted Kennedy one cannot also be an enemy of Hillary Clinton?

Andrea said...

Mr. Lee, does it bother you at all that Ted Kennedy left a young woman to die in his car while he walked past easily accessible help, didn't call the authorities the next day, had a nice nap in his hotel room as well, etc. etc.? And then went on to fame and fortune? Because I can't see any signs that you care.

Ted Kennedy should not just have been denied the White House, he should have been banned from public service. In a less "forgiving" (IOW, weak and decadent) culture he would have been shunned and would never have been able to hold up his head in polite society ever again.

alan markus said...

Now I don't feel guilty for hanging on to my original copy of the National Lampoon Encyclopedia of Humor with the infamous "If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen, he'd be President Today" spoof ad (picture of Volkswagen Beetle floating in water). Nice to know that Ted Kennedy might have enjoyed that humor as much as I have for 30+ years.

David said...

From Wikipedia, here is the list of hard hitting books by Ed Klein about the Kennedys.



Farewell, Jackie: A Portrait of Her Final Days, Viking Books, 2004.

All Too Human: The Love Story of Jack and Jackie Kennedy, St. Martin's Press, 2003.

Just Jackie: Her Private Years, Ballatine Books, 1999.

The Kennedy Curse: Why Tragedy Has Haunted America's First Family for 150 Years, Pocket Books, 1996.

And of course "The Dream that Never Died"

You are a fool, Mr. Lee.

garage mahal said...

MJ, but you will take an scurrilously outlandish assertion from Mr. Klein as fact but then turn a blind eye to seeking out his easily ascertained bad reputation..

Anything written about a liberal is fact, however anonymous the source [as Kleins "work"] is. Funny you never hear about the more credible claim by Jacqueline Park that she was raped by Ronald Reagan, as described in Kitty Kelley's book.

MJ said...

Lee,

More evidence you can't think straight. My comments have nothing to do with whether Klein is or is not a friend of Kennedy. I pointed out that the evidence you supplied to prove him not a friend of Kennedy were comments on Hillary Clinton. Why do you think Klein is relevant to this? The fact that these two don't relate to each other is true no matter the relationship between Klein and Kennedy.

If you're getting confused, write down the assertion you're trying to disprove before listing the "facts" you think refute it.

Andrea said...

Maybe he thinks that Hilary Clinton is Ted Kennedy. Or an avatar of Ted's. Or his evil twin. Or something. Or maybe he just unwittingly revealed that the Democrats are really an alien Hive Mind that has come to take over the earth, so in a sense what you say about one Dem is true of another since they are all simply cells of the Overmind. In which case I think I'd better sign off now and... hold on, what's that light outside the win

Rialby said...

Hey garage, if you're going to around spreading rumors or "reporting facts" you might want to get the name correct. Jacqueline Park never claimed that. Go back and do some research and come back with the right name.

Freeman Hunt said...

L.E. Lee,

Called your bluff. Looked up all of Klein's books on Amazon. Read the reviews. He was not at all anti-Kennedy. They were obviously friends.

Your argument = Fail

Freeman Hunt said...

"Klein cannot ignore the Kennedy family skeletons nor Ted’s many warts, but even so, and despite his denials, Klein is clearly a Kennedy apologist."

Chip Ahoy said...

Apparently Jacqueline Kennedy was fond of the tale of Camelot and mentioned something about "shining city on the hill" in an interview with Life magazine. The phrase lodged in the collective mind and we've all been subject to it since, whether or not we were even around for that administration.

I resent that, I do. I have said as much and have been mocked for harboring resentment over something so lovely. But honestly, does it not fly in the face of the fundamentals of what it means to be American? To associate an administration with kingship is flatly obscenely retrogressive, IMO.

Then lately I'm cheered because I read online, "If they persist in mentioning Camelot, then we've the right to counter Lady in the Lake." I wondered, "How is lady in the lake antagonistic to Camelot?" I read up on the various versions of lady in the lake, none of them antagonistic to Camelot until at last it hit me. OMG! That's brilliant! Ha ha ha ha ha. How could I miss that? You say Camelot, I say Lady in the Lake!

Paul Zrimsek said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Rialby
You're correct, it was Selene Waters who claimed Reagan raped her, not Jacqueline Park. Park claimed Reagan fathered a child of hers, and denied it.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Klein's most recent book is "Ted Kennedy: The ream that Never Died."

Best. Typo. Ever.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Whether Kennedy joked about the incident is of little consequence.

There is, however, no doubt that a woman died while Ted was back at his hotel sleeping. He was solely responsible. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. No left wing conspiracy fantasies can make it go away. It's there in the light of day for everyone to see.

It must be hard for some to cover their eyes and look the other way due to their political allegiance. At least I hope it is.

MJ said...

however anonymous the source [as Kleins "work"] is

The source isn't anonymous. Klein is the source.

Rialby said...

Wonderful. Now that we've corrected the record on that, let's discuss the Juanita Broaddrick charges. You game?

WV: borat. jagshemash

Diamondhead said...

According to Lee's thought process, because Ted Kennedy was cruel to Hillary Clinton in denying her his endorsement, Ted Kennedy couldn't be trusted to make factual statements about himself.

Freeman Hunt said...

But it would be nice to find that Klein is lying. Some people are so used to lying that lies flow from their mouths as easily as truths. Such people will say whatever comes to mind, fact or fiction, that they think might sound interesting. It would be nice to think that was the horrible case rather than the more horrible case that Kennedy really did joke about Chappaquiddick.

David said...

Paul Zrimsek said...

"Klein's most recent book is "Ted Kennedy: The ream that Never Died."

Best. Typo. Ever.


No, no, I did it deliberately.

Well, maybe not.

David said...

Freeman, motherhood is making you even more generous. It would be nice if Klein's statement were not true, and there will be plenty of people willing to deny Klein. But why would he lie about that (other than just to keep in practice.)

LarsPorsena said...

We also have to remember Ted's
offer to Andropov in 1985 to help the Soviets burnish their disarmament's creds in return for their coordination in undermining Reagan. Just one of those inconvenient facts that leaked out after the demise of the ol' USSR.

What a prankster!

CarmelaMotto said...

I think it's strange that Lee or anyone thinks Ted needs their vigorous defense. All the "how dare YOU sir(s)," are downright comical.

And Garage or anyone, the crime wasn't the accident - shit happens, even if you're not drinking (which Ted claimed he wasn't!). It was that he did not get help, he went to bed, complained to the hotel manager about a party, was joking with guests the next morning and only "called" after the car had been discovered. She wasn't a stranger either. It was revolting. It was equally revolting that his friends and family, the judge - then voters - shrugged it off and tried to help him cover it up.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"Klein's most recent book is "Ted Kennedy: The ream that Never Died"

HA HA HAH Freudian slip there. Yes the ream that never dies from the left to the rest of the US.

/snicker

VS = suragger

m00se said...

C'mon guys, don't you know that contempt is the little known last stage of the grieving process?

It's only natural. You haters...

Freeman Hunt said...

David, I don't really think he was lying. Just hoping that he was. Hoping he was lying to sound interesting.

Big Mike said...

I went beyond your challenge, Mr. Lee, and discovered on the bottom of page 111 in Ted Kennedy: The Dream that Never Died that Klein credits the remark to Mr. Wayne Owen, a member of Kennedy's personal staff and his driver in the days following Chappaquiddick (since Teddy's drivers license had been revoked).

BTW, Mr. Lee, may I ask a couple questions? First, do you trolls get your marching orders from some central source? Something on the order or "you, L.E.Lee, and you, Bobby McGee, go to Ann Althouse (and maybe some more blogs) and push the following talking points." The reason I ask is that so many people in the blogosphere are pushing the Klein-isn't-really-a-Kennedy-friend-Klien-is-a-Kennedy-hater meme simultaneously. Occam's Razor suggests that this coordinated and not the result of individual volition.

(I note in passing that this would explain the behavior of Vertios two days ago. Something akin to this little effort.)

Second, are you certain that you're African-American as you described yourself in your profile? Because "schmuck" is not an epithet that I associate with African-Americans. In fact, in my 60+ years on this earth you're the first African-American I've heard or seen use the term.

Freeman Hunt said...

In high school I had a friend who was relaying a story to a larger group of friends about something that had happened to the two of us. His account was fascinating. It was even fascinating to me because it bore little resemblance to what had actually happened.

After the others left I asked why he had made up so many aspects of the story, which was a pretty good story on its own without embellishment.

"Oh, I just made it much more interesting. It's not like they care what really happened. My story was better."

Some people do that into adulthood.

Scott M said...

“Ted Kennedy embodies all the best of modern liberalism”

I’m pissed. More pissed than I’ve ever been over a political issue. Why? Because UNBELIEVABLY OBVIOUS examples of “modern liberalisms” hypocrisy continue to be trotted out, most times by the left themselves, and nobody seems to give a damn.

Screw all of this back and forth about this joke. It’s making all of us here look smaller, whatever side you’re on.

The real issue here is barely getting any mention and a GLARING example of liberal hypocrisy. I’m speaking specifically about Ted Kennedy leading the charge to take away the governor’s ability to appoint a replacement senator and successfully getting that done. Justification? BECAUSE THE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE A VOICE CHOOSING THE REPLACEMENT. The real reason? BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR WAS A CONSERVATIVE.

What did this stalwart protector of democracy…this incredible liberal icon and advocate of the little man do when it became apparently he was shuffling off this mortal coil? He started in motion the machinery that would get the NOW DEMOCRATIC governor the ability to select his replacement. FUCKING OVER THE LITTLE GUY AND THWARTING DEMOCRACY.

Look, I carry no water for the Republicans. I left the party over Republican excesses, their kowtowing to the religious right, and their deviation from conservative principles. Let me make very clear that last part. Principles. Things that stand up regardless of the situation or WHICH FUCKING WAY THE POLITICAL WIND BLOWS.

THIS is the issue that should be on the tip of everyone that gives a fig about democracy and rule of law. Honestly, I agreed with Ted. In a given state, that state’s people should be able to hold a special election to install a replacement senator or representative.

WV - swash : What I do right before I buckle.

Roger J. said...

Hey there Lee: got your ass handed to you, huh?

Roger J. said...

Scott M: ummm that was my meant to be sarcastic quote about modern liberalism. Just wanted you to know I think modern liberalism is a crock of shit and no one embodied it better than kennedy.

Rialby said...

On the old man from the Bay State
Who couldn't quit trying to mate
A drunk til the end
Ed Klein was his friend
May the good lord handle his fate

Scott M said...

@Roger J

I wasn’t calling you out on it, just riding your coattails by using the quote. That’s why I didn’t use the @Roger J. I was trying to address everyone here about the remoteness of the argument over the joke.

Patrick said...

I wonder if Ted liked this one:

http://homepage.mac.com/mr_bingley/.Pictures/tedvwsmall.jpg

The Drill SGT said...

“Ted Kennedy embodies all the best of modern liberalism”

I'd bought it if you said Moynihan, or Feingold, or Koch, or Cuomo (the elder)

SaysMeow said...

Klein's most recent book is "Ted Kennedy: The ream that Never Died."

Best. Typo. Ever.


There was a gruesome one in the Michael Kelly-GQ article (http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5585&pageNum=8):

"never calling the police for help in rescuing the trapped drying Kopechne"

Synova said...

Just a nit -

Posing a series of outrageous questions about Hillary Clinton in the first chapter of a book about her is a rhetorical hook that any reasonably good writer would use, even *particularly* one who was on her side and going to write a positive bio of her. The goal is to be entertaining, to catch the interest of readers and hold their attention with the promise that all the juicy bits *will* be delved into, even if the answers to those questions are, no, no, no and no.

MamaM said...

Mr Lee appears to be more interested in the powerful feeling that comes with lobbing a stink bomb and watching the crowd react, than engaging in sound argument or information dissemination.

However, I'm interested in the function his comments unwittingly serve, as I hear the strange things he says encouraging others to respond with additional clarity, creativity, humor, information and strength of argument.

Does realize he is filling the role of "devils' advocate? I suspect not, but annoying as he is, I appreciate the resulting excellence of the comments he provokes.

"In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position he or she disagrees with for the sake of argument. This process can be used to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure." from the Wiki

wv Pohsess..I wonder what pohsesses him?

AJ Lynch said...

The Klein anecdote, if true, is indefensible. Even Jeremy Luckyoldson Gene Olson is speechless.

It seems to reflect a trend. I hear more and more people who are voicing bigtime concerns about the Dem / Obama agenda.

bearbee said...

Just read Time Mag article dated May 1970 Nation: Chappaquiddick: Suspicions Renewed in which the final sentences are:

He also kept his promise to the Boston Pops Orchestra to narrate Aaron Copland's Lincoln Portrait. The occasion was not without a touch of irony. The opening lines of the narrative quote Lincoln: "Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history. We . . . will be remembered in spite of ourselves."

Roger J. said...

Scott: thanks!

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

The leftist ideologues are speechless because they can't bear to address the issue head on. It would just confront them with their own hypocrisy. Like Lee has demonstrated, the best they can do is argue semantics on the fringe. This highlights how hard it is to avoid the corpse in the room.

Revenant said...

Funny you never hear about the more credible claim by Jacqueline Park that she was raped by Ronald Reagan, as described in Kitty Kelley's book.

Selene Walters, not Jacqueline Park, was the woman who accused Reagan of rape. I can't imagine what the basis of your "more credible" claim is, though, since there was no evidence at all for Walters' claim. Say what you will about Juanita Broaddrick, but at least there were people willing to go on the record as saying that she'd told them of the attack when it happened.

Plus, of course, there's the fact that Clinton's a known sexual predator and Reagan is not.

Roger J. said...

Where is Lee? must be at Kos rechecking the talking points.

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

I can't imagine what the basis of your "more credible" claim is, though, since there was no evidence at all for Walters' claim.

Except her claim that it happened, that is?

Scott M said...

@garage

Please tell me your opinion on how MA should select their replacement senator.

I'd love to know.

Richard said...

Holy Shit!

Unreal.

Shanna said...

I saw this this morning. As if I didn't already think the man was sick, at least I had hopes that he had repented.

Apparently not.

BJM said...

BUHWAWAWAWA!!

Chip wins the thread.

Jay Vogt said...

Massive, Massive synapse failure. Even if it's true that's the kind of stuff that you take to your own grave.

SMGalbraith said...

I'm not much of a fan of Hitchens but when he says "You must believe in principles and not people; people will let you down every time", he's spot on.

I mean, how much do we really know about our political leaders?

To me Kennedy, pace the comments above, wasn't evil or a monster; he was just a man with lots of warts born into privilege who took his noblesse oblige too far.

Cedarford said...

"AJ Lynch said...
Don't forget Mary Jo was their only child.
Can you imagine what this did to them?"

Apparantly, that was something the Kopechnes insisted was worth a little extra before they accepted a payoff from Teddy's lawyers, and signed an agreement to never sue. And took a little extra money to also agree to never publicly criticise him, talk to reporters about their feelings about Teddy, talk to any book writers - over the accident.

Purportedly is wasn't even that much money. Under 100,000 bucks.

Since the parents were both readily bought-off whores, why waste any sympathy on them 40 years after the buy-off?

=================
Part of me thinks that Joe Klein is truthful and that Kennedy did use dark Irish humor as a defense against the self-righteous that saw Kopechne as much a weapon as Feminists saw Anita Hill as a similar club to wield.

The other part sees Klein as the slimey little NYC con artist who routinely lies to advance Joe Klein as a man of Zero integrity - lying as he has done many times to augment the fame and wealth of Joe Klein.
=================
As for Teddy being a politician whose deep lapse in judgment and honestly costing the lives of others - he is a piker compared to LBJ, McNamara, JImmy Carter, and Dubya.
LBJ & McNamara for lying and escalating a war they knew would be lost in order not to appear weak.
Nixon for Watergate, though not directly killing anyone - gave us the liberal Dem rise and the loss of 2 million people in SE ASia stabbed in the back, Afghanistan, and Jimmy Carters grovelling to Ayatollahs...
Jimmy Carter for being so spectacularly wrong about dealing with radical Islam and setting up hundreds of thousands of lives to be lost to Islamists in the next 30 years.

Dubya for his terrible personal judgment after trashing the Iraqi Army yet again with minimal casualties and finding no WMD - that his conviction that the Iraqis were indeed noble, democracy hungry purple-fingered freedom lovers Just-Like-Us!! And they were worth another 4,000 lives, 11,000 serious woundings, a trillion dollars lost...to realize the Neocon Vision.

If you had one chance to go back in time and have a "do-ever", to undo the biggest lapse in a politician's judgment would you waste it on Teddy & Mary Jo?

Or go for the bigger fish? Like Dubya and tell him it would ruin him, the country, the Republican Party if he allowed a Neocon within 500 yards of the White House or the VP's quarters?

Tell Nixon not to place loyalty over obstruction of justice?
Tell everyone that Carter was a weak idiot?
Give LBJ a 4th and fatal heart attack 8 years before "The Big One"?

AllenS said...

I said it before, and I'll say it again: LE Lee you miserable motherfucking fool.

vnjagvet said...

Cedarford:

Always provocative; never in doubt.

Roger J. said...

Jim: if I may riff on your post. as my girlfriend says: Often wrong but never in doubt.

BTW--isnt Klein a Jewish name? and you know how THEY are

I do enjoy C4s posts--the ultimate contrarian: how many Nixon admirers are there out there?

Robert Stacy McCain said...

I tell, ya, Ted Kennedy gets no respect, no respect at all. Why, when Ted Kennedy came out in favor of abortion, his own mother said, "Oh, now he tells me!"

vnjagvet said...

Roger J:

Your girlfriend's saying is the one I was riffing off of;>)

We used to say that of my MIL because it was so true.

MJ said...

The other part sees Klein as the slimey little NYC con artist who routinely lies to advance Joe Klein as a man of Zero integrity - lying as he has done many times to augment the fame and wealth of Joe Klein.

Ed Klein, Joe Klein. What's the difference? They're both Jewish, right?

AllenS said...

One more point. This woman that Klein was talking to, was Katty Kay. WTF is up with her. To just sit there and think that the conversation, was, what, interesting, funny, amusing? She should have jumped out of her chair, and started stabbing Klein in his eye with her ball point pen. She's lower than the motherfucking idiot LE Lee.

Fred4Pres said...

I prefer when R.S. McCain channels Schecky rather than Rodney:

Comment by Robert Stacy McCain on 8/28 @ 1:36 pm #

Q. What’s the difference between Ted Kennedy and Ronald Reagan?
A. As a young man Ronnie saved girls from drowning!

The name’s “Shecky” McCain, folks, and I’ll be here all week.

L. E. Lee said...

AllenS wrote
"I said it before, and I'll say it again: LE Lee you miserable motherfucking fool."

Allen, when did you Mom tell you? You are right, I was a real fool to get involved with your skanky mom.

Big Mike said...

Mr. Lee! You are back, sir.

Would you mind going back to my 1:26 post and answering my questions? There's a good fellow.

William said...

As a matter of protocol, I think everyone deserves a decent burial prior to pissing on their grave. That said, I can't think of a single posthumous revelation about the Camelot crowd that has burnished their reputation. They were tawdry and we were gullible....If Klein's reporting is correct, Teddy was indeed a horrible person. The Chappaquiddick incident seems some kind of dark parody of JFK's brave feats of swimming in order to rescue his shipmates on PT109.

Mr. Buford said...

If Teddy did enjoy Chappaquiddick jokes, well then it makes me wonder if he saw humor in any jokes about bullets to the brain pan or exploding B-24 bombers....

Meade said...

Give LBJ a 4th and fatal heart attack 8 years before "The Big One"?

Can't we just round it off and make it 10 years? That way John McCormack could have succeeded JFK as president, maybe McCormack's nephew then would have prevailed against Teddy for the Mass. senate seat, and, hopefully, Barry Goldwater would've been elected president in 1964.

Now let's play "What If Eleanor Roosevelt Could Fly"

Can we?

NKVD said...

LeLee is here to spread his racism. Keep hatin', Lee, it is what you do best.

jacksonianlawyer said...

Drill Sgt. -

Well stated sir. Teddy Kennedy is worthy not of praise or fond-remembrances. He was a murdering, philandering, sex-bullying, rapist-enabling/protecting, terrorist-Gerry-Adams-loving, lying, cheating, academically-dishonest pissant who, personal life aside, betrayed this country and made it far weaker with his political scheming. As I've said previously - and perhaps elsewhere - we are far better as a nation for he having left this world.

traditionalguy said...

Mentioning Richard Nixon and Watergate next to the Kennedys reminds us of that the Democrats have always enjoyed better leaders than the Republicans. Maybe its time for that to change. The powerful in the Republican Party need to pick us a winner rather than someone that they think can be ruled by the Party Bosses. Good leaders, men and women, do make all the difference.

David said...

Cedarford, I nominate your calling Mary Jo Kopechne's parents easily bought off whores as the most despicable statement on this thread, and perhaps any thread in the history of this blog. I do think you can sink lower though. You certainly are trending in that direction.

rcocean said...

MJ said:

"Ed Klein, Joe Klein. What's the difference? They're both Jewish, right?"

A rather repulsive bit of antisemitism there MJ.

Shanna said...

A rather repulsive bit of antisemitism there MJ.

I believe that was actually meant to be a joke at Cederford's expense.

Methadras said...

Teddy: An Irishman, a Mexican, and a Black walk into a bar. They are all talking amongst themselves about a car accident down the road at the bridge. I laughed and chuckled up with em' and said, "oh it was just a fender bender. Nothing I couldn't walk away from, heh heh."

Then I told the bartender to start another round... For me...

Cedarford said...

David said...
"Cedarford, I nominate your calling Mary Jo Kopechne's parents easily bought off whores as the most despicable statement on this thread, and perhaps any thread in the history of this blog. I do think you can sink lower though. You certainly are trending in that direction."

You simply display the right wing pretend emotions for one of 400,000 accident victims in the last 40 years. Who you only pretend to care about because your "caring" is just a club to bash the guy at fault.

Then there are the facts.

The Kopechnes were bought off.

Had it been my daughter, I would have understood that she was a deeply committed Dem Party volunteer, that she was likely killed on her way to a spot where she could have banged the Big Kahuna..probably a thing she dreamed of for years. And that she wouldn't have wanted Teddy of the Magic Kennedys have his career wrecked over it.
That said, I would have filed wrongful death, but I would not have signed any "maintainance of good reputation" clause lawyers try and sneak into any out of court settlement. That of the defendent "in return for X undisclosed compensation" clause, that required me and her other parent to sign away our right to speak out.
On Teddy's poor judgment and running from the scene.
The Kopechnes did. They went for the cash.

Saying that you are so sincere and emotionally involved in this accident as opposed to the 400,000 other human fault accident deaths since then - outside the box of advancing your politics - strains credulity. (as the Left is wont to do when they claim they don't hate Bush, they only care! care so deeply! about the relatives of Heroes lost to Bush in Iraq)

David said...

Disgusting.

Gary Rosen said...

C-fudd the semiliterate can't even keep his Kleins straight, guess all those Jooooos look alike (or have the same name or something). Typical of his sweaty compulsive antisemitism that he starts bloviating incoherently off-topic about "neocons" in a thread about a left-wing Irish Catholic whose dad was a notorious admirer of the Nazis. And like his blame-the-victims butt buddy Pat Buchanan who blames WWII on Poland, he savages the Kopechnes more than Kennedy himself. It's like blaming Megan's law on Megan, but then you'd expect Fudd to take his ethical cues from NAMBLA.

John said...

In a less "forgiving" (IOW, weak and decadent) culture he would have been shunned and would never have been able to hold up his head in polite society ever again.

I've heard nothing to indicate that he did so. Of course, he was popular in the halls of the government and its sycophants, but that's hardly "polite society".

-jcr

AST said...

Thank goodness I quit sending those jerks money.

I guess this is that Rabelaisian aspect of his character, like the Nazi officer who forces Sophie to choose between her two children, one to stay with her and one to the death camps. My how Teddy would have enjoyed that.

Peter said...

My own sins always made me hope there is no Hell. Kennedy makes me pray there is one and that he is screaming in it now.

It's not just mary Jo, he had much to do with the United States unilaterally breaking the treating that let the NVA invade the Republic of viet Nam. He had much to do with us sitting silent through the slaughter in Cambodia.

What I would really like to know is what one thing that scumbag did in the legislature that really helped poor Americans. That's easy, nothing.

reader_iam said...

He had a Portuguese Water Dog named "Splash." 'Nuff said.

comatus said...

I have to admit it, I'm an "Althouse hillbilly," and was completely taken in by this vast rightwing deep mole. But enough about me.

Klein totally pwned National Public Radio! Who'da thunkit?

Argent Paladin said...

I'm surprised Lee returned after David's 12:38 comment, noting the sycophantic titles of the Kennedy books Klein wrote.
Also, as if you needed more evidence of Kennedy's cravenness, Peter Robinson details how Teddy wanted to give aid to the Soviets against their mutual enemy: Ronald Reagan.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html
I wonder if Lee will as consider the Soviet Archives "right-wing"?

Florida said...

@Cedarford

"Saying that you are so sincere and emotionally involved in this accident as opposed to the 400,000 other human fault accident deaths since then - outside the box of advancing your politics - strains credulity."

Who's saying that at all?

Nobody faults Teddy Kennedy for having an automobile accident. Could happen to anybody.

Nobody even faults Teddy Kennedy for drinking. Who among us hasn't had "one too many" and did something that turned out not how we'd expected.

Nobody even faults Teddy Kennedy for being a serial cheater. It's his business whether he can be trusted by his own family members.

Look ... some people are narcissists; it's not their fault. They have a mental disorder. One could hardly fault Ted Kennedy for having a mental illness. He was a sick man. And it's not like women weren't throwing themselves at him, now is it? Maybe even Mary Jo did. I have no idea since I wasn't there.

But remember this: Chappaquiddick isn't about drinking; or fucking around; or driving drunk or 400,000 automobile accidents.

It's about leaving a woman to suffocate in the air pocket of a car underwater while you sleep one off in a posh hotel room. It's about leaving the scene after telling everyone to keep quiet and not calling the police. It's about faking your own injuries while trying to make yourself out to be the hero who exhausted himself rescuing Mary Jo.

It was never about the accident. It was about how he killed Mary Jo.

The accident was just that ... an accident. It could have happened to anyone.

Mary Jo Kopeckne's killing is why Ted Kennedy is burning in hell and why his legacy won't be written by his enablers in the mainstream media.

Or you.

Roger J. said...

Florida has summarized very nicely.
the fact that kennedy will be buried in arlington will probably make me reselect my choice of burial sites--would hate to think I would be sharing the same ground with teddy.

John said...

Everybody says this is crazy, no one is saying that it's sociopathic. Which is unfortunate, because that's what it is.

Cato Renasci said...

All of the Kennedy men were worse than pond scum (possible exception the oldest brother who died in WWII).

St. John the Martyr was a womanizing rake hell who was rolled by the Russians in Vienna.

Robert the Dead was the most dangerous man in American politics between Huey Long and Obama. A thug through and through.

Edward the Pretender to the Throne of St. John, of course, was vile and putrescent - another rake hell and a murderer whose family power kept him from any accounting. A sleazy leftist who lived the good life he strove to destroy for othres.

Of course, who can forget the father, Joe. The Irish-American Nazi sympathizer FDR sent to England to tweak the British ( and who did that), the stock manipulator, movie mogul/thug extraordinaire, SEC chairman on the theory that you set a thief to catch a thief, and otherwise despicable rake hell.

PrestoPundit said...

More jokes that Ted loves:

Jokes about the Cambodian genocide and the Vietnamese "re-education" camps -- in the wake of the U.S. Congress cutting off funding for South Vietnam.

Jokes about blue collar workers losing their jobs to foreign immigrants -- in wake of Kennedy's 1965 immigration law.

Jokes about Soviet defeats of America during the Reagan Presidency -- in the wake of Kennedy's "secret channel" giving assistance to Andropov against Reagan.

Jokes about "the little people" eating peanuts and waiting on the tarmac for hours for their commercial jets to take off -- in the wake Kennedy's de-regulation of the airline industry.

Got any more?

Roger J. said...

Catos comments are on target except he forgot to mention joe seniors role in bootlegging during the depression--and a man who lobotomized his own daughter

A thoroughly corrupt bunch of assholes--hopefully they are all rotting in hell--good riddance to all of them

Charlie said...

Heard any good waitress sandwich jokes lately?

ligneus said...

Guilty as sin, free as a bird...
Oh wait, that was his friend Ayers who also killed someone and through his money and connections got away with it.
These Dems, a real riot aren't they?

Skookum John said...

You are a fool, Mr. Lee.

Second the motion. Is there a political equivalent of a "jock-sniffer"? Because you're it, defending the indefensible heap of dung Ted Kennedy.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, and may the rest of this drug-addled, alcoholic band of jumped-up potato diggers soon fade from the national memory.

Skookum John said...

You're correct, it was Selene Waters who claimed Reagan raped her, not Jacqueline Park.

Very well, if this is to become a tangential game of liberal vs. conservative tu quoque, was it Paula Jones who claimed rape and Kathleen Willey who claimed aggressive crotch groping by Bill Clinton, or the other way around?

And can it really be consensual, according to liberal feminist ideology, when the most powerful man in the world has his cock sucked and his asshole licked by a college coed working for him as an intern?

Skookum John said...

Oh, I'm getting my Clinton rape victims mixed up. Guess it was actually Juanita Broaddrick who claims to have been raped by Clinton while working for the state of which he was Governor.