July 6, 2009

It's me and Michelle Goldberg, blabbing about the governors Palin and Sanford.

On the new Bloggingheads.
Special Sex and Palin Edition

Is Sarah Palin insane?
Examining her motivations
Edwards’s sex tape vs. Sanford’s Appalachian hike
Mark Sanford’s an adulterous flake. But he’s so romantic!
Is Palin the next Obama?
Analyzing why Michelle HATES Palin

156 comments:

MadisonMan said...

Wow -- talk about a bad link to bloggingheads!

TosaGuy said...

Yawn.

MadisonMan said...

You make Palin sound like a robot -- If they can just upload enough information into her, and manage her properly.... she'll be a great candidate.

(I think that's what you said).

Minzo said...

There's plenty of 'ifs' with Palin there. As the saying goes, if my auntie had testicles, she'd be my uncle.

Ann Althouse said...

@MM Yow! Stuff like that could be inCREDibly embarrassing!

Chase said...

No one in 1962 thought Richard Nixon would become President of the United States a mere 6 years later.

Ronald Reagan as President seemed impossible to most people in 1975, but he almost wrestled the nomination away from a sitting President the very next year. I remember in the early 70's a sarcastic Bill Moyers dismissing Reagan's chances.

Jimmy Carter was a blip on everyone's radar at the beginning of 1975, a time when he should have been already nationally known.

Obama was thought - up to Spring 2007 - to have next to no chance of beating Hillary Clinton.

It seems that our predictions and conventional wisdom don't work as well as we like to think.

It is way way way way way way too early to dismiss Sarah Palin. It is ridiculous to even speculate.

Chase said...

The questions that I would like to see answered:

1)What would a Sarah Palin Presidency look like?

2) What would the United States be like under a Sarah Palin Administration?

Chase said...

Just got the link to work and watched it. . .

Is there a bigger idiot and feminist bigot around then Michelle Goldberg?

Seriously. Anyone?

Ron said...

Wow, what an absolute snotty, elitist tool Goldberg is! She made my flesh crawl every few seconds.

Chase said...

Seriously.

Michele Goldberg seems to be an excellent example for the need for forced abortions of liberal women.

Seriously. Again. I mean think how great this country could be if liberals just quit having kids.

Minzo said...

"Seriously. Again. I mean think how great this country could be if liberals just quit having kids."

Way to strike a blow for reasoned discussion. And presumably you feel you have the moral and intellectual highground?

Sloanasaurus said...

1) What would a Sarah Palin Presidency look like?

2) What would the United States be like under a Sarah Palin Administration?


My hope would be that unlike Obama, who is a total disaster, Palin would have the wisdom to realize that the government can't solve all problems and thus, the plan would be to have government do less.

Obama is an economic disaster that is bringing this country to ruin. Borrowing $trillions to fight off a recession is a utter disaster. We will pay for Obama's mistakes for decades. No one will pay more than kids graduating now or in high school and college right now. They will suffer 25% unemployment for a decade, just like the young people in Europe.

Bush was reckless in his government spending and in his failure to do anything about the housing mania. But, Obama is the one who is really failing. Instead of 1-2 years of pain, we will have 10 years of pain.

Palin would do a much better job.

Paul said...

Palin has a huge advantage over Obama. She wasn't born and bread to loath and despise The United States Of America.

garage mahal said...

"Seriously. Again. I mean think how great this country could be if liberals just quit having kids.".

I'd have to say teabaggers top my list of people who shouldn't have kids. My personal favorite is the guy in the diaper with the sign "TEA makes me PEA".

Invisible Man said...

Palin has a huge advantage over Obama. She wasn't born and bread to loath and despise The United States Of America.

You tell em' Truther!

Minzo said...

Paul- do you have anything substantial to back that up? Im guessing not. And I'm guessing you have repeatedly condemmned liberals for precisely those kinds of attacks on Sarah Palin. The kind that have no facts or anything substantial behind them- just lazy vicious caricatures.

traditionalguy said...

How is the Palin twitter account going? And what are the chances that you could do a Blogging heads with her?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Paul- do you have anything substantial to back that up?

Not to beat a dead horse but I still contend listening to 20 years worth of Goddam America sermons is sufficient for me to think his love of country could be suspect.

Of course Michelle only seemed to be proud of her country when enough people thought her hubby was groovy and super cool.

Jim said...

Chase -

"My hope would be that unlike Obama, who is a total disaster, Palin would have the wisdom to realize that the government can't solve all problems and thus, the plan would be to have government do less."

What makes Leftists' blood boil at the thought of a potential presidency is exactly that. It's the same reason that Reagan incited the same kind of knee-jerk vitriol that we see whenever Palin's name is mentioned.

She may not have an Ivy League education, but she understands that government is fundamentally the problem with America.

Let's go down the list:

1) The housing market. Caused by government forcing banks to make bad loans to people who couldn't afford them, thereby overinflating home values and inevitably causing the bubble to burst when it came time to pay the bill.

2) Healthcare. Excessive government regulation which prohibits the sale of insurance across state lines, increases red tape and forces private insurers (and you and me) to make up for the shortfall between the actual cost of treating Medicare/Medicaid patients and what the government is willing to pay for them.

3) Inner-city issues. There are too many to list, but the root of most of them is the sense of entitlement and the lack of personal responsibility for a whole host of social ills that are engendered by creating a permanently dependent subclass of American citizens through welfare and other government programs.

4) Illegal immigration. Caused by a failure of the federal government to perform its primary mission: "provide for the national defense", failure to enforce employment laws which prevent hiring illegals, and failure to deport aliens even when they are convicted of criminal activity.

5) Ridiculous environmental regulations such as those which are depriving farmers of water to protect a species of minnow which isn't even native to that area.

6) Over-generous compensation and pension benefits for public employees which are bankrupting state and local governments across the country.

7) Overemployment in the government. How many departments, czars, etc. at all levels of government can/should be eliminated through greater efficiences, consolidations of job functions, and just getting government out of areas where it has no business intruding.

8) Overly-complicated tax codes. It shouldn't require anything more than a single sheet of paper to file your taxes, and it surely shouldn't require specialized-software or consulting with a professional. There are alternatives such as replacing the income tax with a VAT (as some states have already done) which would shrink the IRS to a handful of employees.

9) Eliminating corporate taxes. They are all passed ultimately to consumers anyway, so it's just a way to hide higher taxes on citizens. Think how much more efficiently corporations could operate and the lower prices consumers would see if they could eliminate their tax-compliance operations.

10) Tax-efficient planning. How many corporate and personal financial decisions are made to avoid paying taxes. The tax code creates distortions in the marketplace to advantage certain decisions based on their tax implications as opposed to allowing monies to flow to the most efficient sources and away from least efficient ones.

Jim said...

contd.


11) Eliminating discrimination and preferences. Between the best person for the job not getting the job and the racial/gender/etc. animus creating by preferences, the society is harmed in multiple ways by both discrimination and preferences. It's long past time to do away with both, and let the legal system deal with whatever violations of anti-discrimination/preference takes place.

12) Legal reform. A simple loser pays reform would prevent much of the frivolous lawsuits that get filed. Also, reasonable caps on jury awards would eliminate the incentive for crooked lawyers to file hundreds of lawsuits hoping for a gigantic payday or two.

I could go on and on. I don't have an Ivy League education either, but these (and more which I'm sure that other commenters can name) are simply common sense. The myriad problems are glaring and obvious: it's just a matter of summoning the political will to address them.

Invisible Man said...

Not to beat a dead horse but I still contend listening to 20 years worth of Goddam America sermons is sufficient for me to think his love of country could be suspect.

I'm sure that every sermon started out with a Hail Mary, a Goddam America.....and then we pray.

Let me state again for the record when comparing your uneducated opinion about someone's love for this country, Sarah Palin is married to a man who wanted to SECEDE FROM THE UNION.

Ann Althouse said...

"She wasn't born and bread to loath and despise The United States Of America."

Don't you mean: She wasn't born and bread to loaf and despise The United States Of America.

Chase said...

And presumably you feel you have the moral and intellectual highground?

I don't have to feel I have the high ground or actually wish that liberals don't have any more kids - or even raise them.

But I can fantasize about how great this country would be if that did happen.

The problem, of course, is that the far right nuts would have to be included in the childless class too.

Then some moderates. Not the nice ones, though.

Maybe a few people I work with.

Crap. How about letting just me choose.

Jim said...

"Paul- do you have anything substantial to back that up?"

Yeah, he does. Obama's own books that says that he was raised on Marxism, gravitated towards Marxists in college and the mentors he chose who were all Marxists.

If you want to call Obama a liar, then go ahead. But I thought his word was sacrosant to Leftists?

Minzo said...

"Don't you mean: She wasn't born and bread to loaf and despise The United States Of America."

Oooh thats very good Ann. You should quote yourself on the front page with that one. I will shamelessly steal it to use at a future date.

Jim said...

Invisible -

"Sarah Palin is married to a man who wanted to SECEDE FROM THE UNION."

Even if I grant you that Todd does, evidently you don't know the first thing about marriage. My wife and I disagree about a number of things. It doesn't mean that I don't love her. It doesn't make her a bad person.

This is exactly the sort of ridiculous ad hominem stupidity that discredits you. Show me in even one instance where Sarah Palin even hints at being secessionist.

On the other hand, I can show you plenty of instances where Obama is obviously Leftist in his thinking and his policies.

So who has the better of the argument? Here's a hint: it ain't you.

El Presidente said...

I found this very difficult to watch, not because of content but because of the content but because of Ms. Goldberg's constant hair management.

Michelle Goldberg Portrait:

http://angrybear.blogspot.com/cat.jpg

Hoosier Daddy said...

I'm sure that every sermon started out with a Hail Mary, a Goddam America.....and then we pray.

Well according to Reverend Wright himself, he freely admitted that those were the kind of sermons he preached for 20 years. Forgive me if I take the good Reverend at his word.

Invisible Man said...

Don't you mean: She wasn't born and bread to loaf and despise The United States Of America.

Sarah Palin, the candidate who hates Bread. But I won't judge her until she tweets her stance on Crescent Rolls.

Chase said...

But I won't judge her until she tweets her stance on Crescent Rolls.

LOL!!!

MadisonMan said...

Professor, I think there should be an 'Obama is like Palin' tag -- or vice versa. The anti-supporter reactions to either run along very similar lines.

If you listen to Michelle (Goldberg, just to be clear) articulate her reasons for disliking Palin, and then read some of the reactions to Obama on this blog: Equivalence!

Minzo said...

"On the other hand, I can show you plenty of instances where Obama is obviously Leftist in his thinking and his policies."

Does being 'leftist' or having some socialist-leaning policies mean you hate America? Just wondering. I can why having Reverand Wright as a spiritual mentor for so many years could lead people to having serious doubts about Obama, but this whole 'he's a socialist!' argument...I must be missing something. it might be a reflection of bad policies, but I dont see how it is a reflection of his love-or lack of it-for his Country which you appear to be implying.

Hoosier Daddy said...

If you want to call Obama a liar, then go ahead. But I thought his word was sacrosant to Leftists?


That is what I love about the leftists who reflexively defend this maroon. Invisible insists that not every sermon was goddam America (even though Wright says otherwise). Ok so lets say 5% were goddam America I suppose that's ok. Then you have Obama's own book where he freely admits hanging out with Marxists. Nothing to see here, proves nothing.

MadisonMan said...

El Presidente, yes. I found myself wondering if it was a wig.

But I was just listening, for the most part, not watching.

Invisible Man said...

Even if I grant you that Todd does, evidently you don't know the first thing about marriage. My wife and I disagree about a number of things. It doesn't mean that I don't love her. It doesn't make her a bad person.

hahahahahah! So apparently we are to judge Obama based on his couple interactions with Ayers and his once-in-awhile attendance to Wright's church, but how darn right unfair to judge Sarah based on actually marrying the guy and TRUE WOVE! But I'm sure like most people Sarah vets her Witch Doctors and Scientologist campaign contributors with loads more scrutiny than she would a mere husband. That would only make sense.

Chase said...

Minzo,

I do agree with you. I wouldn't call Obama a socialist, but I do think leftist in political orientation is accurate.

That said:
1) I do believe that Barack and Michelle Obama do love their country. They are just wrong in their solutions for it's problems.

2) The realities of being President cause person in that office - of any political orientation - to compromise and take stands often opposite to that orientation.

Minzo said...

Jim, here's a quote from an LA Times article:

"The McCain campaign denies that Palin ever joined the AIP. But while it is in dispute whether she attended its 1994 convention, she did visit the 2000 one and addressed AIP conventions in 2006 and 2008."

And a video of Palin addressing the Alaska Independence party:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/09/01/sarah-palin-secessionist/

I'm not saying this is proof she is a secessionist or harboured such sentiments, but merely to refute your suggestion that there isnt even a hint of her being one.

garage mahal said...

Even if I grant you that Todd does, evidently you don't know the first thing about marriage. My wife and I disagree about a number of things. It doesn't mean that I don't love her. It doesn't make her a bad person..

Then why did Sarah Palin send a video message to this fringe radical party? Is it not unusual to send a congratulatory message to a rival party? Especially these fruitcake weirdos. And here she is speaking in front of a 49 star flag.

Chase said...

Again,

The questions that I would like to see answered:

1)What would a Sarah Palin Presidency look like?

2) What would the United States be like under a Sarah Palin Administration?

Jim said...

Minzo -

"Does being 'leftist' or having some socialist-leaning policies mean you hate America? "

It means that you don't buy into American exceptionalism: that there is something special about this country that is worth preserving.

Being a Leftist starts with the assumption that economics is a zero sum game. That if one person is wealthy then it is necessarily because they impoverished someone else to become wealthy. There is no allowance for merit or creativity creating economic advantages or the lack thereof creating economic disadvantages.

Expand that base philosophy to an entire national of individuals. That's why Leftists are such "America apologists." Because they assume that we must be in the wrong because we are relatively wealthy while other nations are poor. So Leftist go looking for excuses as to why America must have somehow wronged this nation or that which doesn't enjoy a similar high standard of living.

There is no allowance for personal responsibility: that the primary reason that other nations are poor is the fault of their own citizenry. That they create the conditions that perpetuate poverty and refuse to implement the policies required to raise their standards of living.

Once you start with flawed reasoning, your conclusions are necessarily flawed. Like it or not, the American people (as a whole) want someone who believes in American exceptionalism to represent them: no different than the citizens of another country want the same for their own.

Obama clearly does not believe in American exceptionalism. His Cairo speech couldn't have been any clearer an example. His attacks on capitalism and belief that the American people won't do the right thing unless the government forces them to are clear examples of his lack of faith in America and its people.

He may not hate this country, but "love" surely isn't a word that applies either.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Does being 'leftist' or having some socialist-leaning policies mean you hate America? Just wondering.

Well I have yet to meet a leftist or socialist who ever had a good thing to say about America. I mean we’re far from perfect but I do question’s a person’s devotion to the country when all they can do is focus on the warts. Sorry but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness doesn’t correlate to spreading the wealth and rugged individualism doesn’t mean it takes a village.

Jim said...

garage -

"Then why did Sarah Palin send a video message to this fringe radical party? Is it not unusual to send a congratulatory message to a rival party? Especially these fruitcake weirdos. And here she is speaking in front of a 49 star flag."

We've been through this same old song and dance before. I'll refer back to the discussions from last fall as to the inherent dishonesty of the question. Your question has been asked and answered. Repeatedly. That you are repeating it shows only that you're not trying to have a serious discussion. Come back when you are.

Minzo said...

"Well I have yet to meet a leftist or socialist who ever had a good thing to say about America. I mean we’re far from perfect but I do question’s a person’s devotion to the country when all they can do is focus on the warts."

You must be moving in very closed circles then. This idea that all leftists do is put down America and apologize for its defects is nothing but a caricature.

Jim said...

Minzo -

"I'm not saying this is proof she is a secessionist or harboured such sentiments, but merely to refute your suggestion that there isnt even a hint of her being one."

Here we go again. We've gone over this territory before. If Obama talks to a fundamentalist Christian, does that make him a fundamentalist Christian? Do I need to go around and post links to every visit to every group out there and then impute their objectives to him, so that you can waste your time knocking down my strawmen? I have more respect for you than that. It's too bad you don't have the same respect for me.

There is a wide gulf between "visiting" someone, and "sitting in the pews for 20 years," or admitting that you "gravitated to Marxists" or name a Marxist as your mentor, or acted in any way that is consistent with sharing their beliefs.

Again, I repeat. Show me a single statement that Sarah Palin has made that shows her personal support for Alaskan secession. If you can't, then you have to admit that you're throwing out red herrings to distract from Obama's own admitted Marxist leanings.

Hoosier Daddy said...

So apparently we are to judge Obama based on his couple interactions with Ayers and his once-in-awhile attendance to Wright's church,

Good enough for me. My old man told me a long time ago that you tend to be judged by the company you keep.

Bob Sacamano said...

50:30 "Weimar kind of hatred"

WTF?

Does she even know what the hell she's talking about?

Hoosier Daddy said...

You must be moving in very closed circles then. This idea that all leftists do is put down America and apologize for its defects is nothing but a caricature.

I disagree.

Jim said...

Minzo -

"This idea that all leftists do is put down America and apologize for its defects is nothing but a caricature."

You may be confusing those who call themselves liberals with actual Leftists. Leftism, by its very nature, requires that America apologize for its wealth and power in the world because it necessitates that all countries are equally good. It's the logical end game of all egalitarianism: there is no merit, there is no such thing as right and wrong, all choices are a matter of personal preferences, and there can be no strong unless it preys upon the weak, etc.

Bob Sacamano said...

Could Michelle Goldberg pout anymore into the camera? Methinks someone believes she's more attractive than she is.

Jim said...

Chase -

If you look at my 12 points above, I think all of those are things that a Palin presidency would attempt to address. For the sake of at least some self-restraint and brevity (such as it is), I didn't continue the list. But I think that a person more endowed with common sense than book learning - as Palin surely is - would take the list that I gave as a launching point for her policies.

Minzo said...

Jim- As I said quite clearly, I posted those links just to respond to your query- 'show me even the tiniest hint'. I agree that her links to them are obviously not as strong as Obama attending Wright's sermons for years, but Im saying you cant deny that attending their conventions and adressing them creates some kind of association. Its not completely outlandish to speculate about it in that case, and the fact that her husband was a member of that party strengthens this suspicion. Personally I dont think she is a secessionist, but you cant pretend that it is such an open-and-shut case. I'm also puzzled as to how my talking about this issue is somehow a mark of disrespect on my part (As you said "I have more respect for you than that. It's too bad you don't have the same respect for me.")

MadisonMan said...

Being a Leftist starts with the assumption that economics is a zero sum game.

What has this to do with, say, agitating for same-sex marriage, which I will argue is a leftist viewpoint?

It is a mistake (IMO) to put people in a left-wing or right-wing box. It might simplify your life to think of them that way, but real life is complex. Embrace the complexity of your political opponents.

Thank you.

Chip Ahoy said...

Bread. Ha ha ha. Stop it, you're killing me already.

no srsly, cum on. wud u vōt 4 sum1 hu rites like this? Id jes haf 2 stop vōtin.

Palin's to do list:

1. Stop being governor.

2. Locate pied-à-terre preferably somewhere south of Canada

3. Start elocution class

4. fill in later

Jim said...

Invisible -

"hahahahahah! So apparently we are to judge Obama based on his couple interactions with Ayers and his once-in-awhile attendance to Wright's church, but how darn right unfair to judge Sarah based on actually marrying the guy and TRUE WOVE!"

If it were "once-in-a-while" or "couple interactions," then I would agree that it would be unfair to assume that Obama shares their beliefs. However, 20 years isn't "once-in-a-while", and having a man write your book, working in his wife's firm, and launching your political career in his living room are hardly "a couple interactions."

You being intentionally dishonest in conflating the two situations. I guess since James Carville and Mary Matalin are married that Carville is secretly a staunch Republican and Matalin is actually a hard-core Democrat? That's what you're asking people to believe, and it's either completely moronic or blazingly dishonest.

"But I'm sure like most people Sarah vets her Witch Doctors and Scientologist campaign contributors with loads more scrutiny than she would a mere husband. That would only make sense."

Do we really want to go through the number of hate groups and splinter political movements such as the Communist Party that actually had blogs on Obama's website? He didn't just take their money: he gave them space on his campaign site to espouse their views. Do you really want to compare the number of anti- Semites and other haters who contributed to Obama's campaign?

Before you go down that road, you better do some Googling. You are going down a road that is going to make you and Obama look far worse than you already do.

Bob Sacamano said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Minzo said...

"Leftism, by its very nature, requires that America apologize for its wealth and power in the world because it necessitates that all countries are equally good. It's the logical end game of all egalitarianism:"

Please find me a leftist who thinks America is as equally good as, say North Korea or Afghanistan or Burma? I think you are completely wrong here.

avwh said...

So glad I watched that; spares me the undoubtedly wasted time of EVER mistakenly reading any of Michelle Goldberg's books or columns - what a smug liberal urbane leftist (just the type who can't STAND anyone like Palin).

Hoosier Daddy said...

Please find me a leftist who thinks America is as equally good as, say North Korea or Afghanistan or Burma? I think you are completely wrong here.

Well I can find you plenty that think we need to be more like Sweden than America.

Jim said...

MM -

"What has this to do with, say, agitating for same-sex marriage, which I will argue is a leftist viewpoint?"

And I would argue that it is a "liberal" viewpoint, but it is not a Leftist one. As we have discussed here before, the Leftists have seized on this issue but have done precious little - even when they have controls over all the levers of government - to advance it. The leaders of the groups which purport to support it time and again sacrifice it in order to promote other Leftist policies. See, for example, the New York legislature which dissolved precisely because the Democratic Senate Majority Leader violated his promise not to bring gay marriage to the floor of the Senate.

That's the danger with conflating Leftism and liberalism, and the danger of liberals voluntarily giving over their goals to be achieved by Leftists. We could go back through a long history of laudable "liberal" goals which have been intentionally perverted and used by Leftists to sell distinctly Leftist policies: all the way back to welfare (Example #1: Liberal goal to help poor people; Leftist goal: create a politically dependent class of people who will reliably vote for us.).

If you want to talk strictly about liberal values, there is a great deal in common between Republicans and those who seek to achieve them. The problem is that too many have bought into the propaganda that if you don't pursue the perverse and ultimately harmful Leftist solution, then you are necessarily "racist" or "bigoted" or an "idiot."

True liberals know better than to engage in such epithets, because their goal is the actual achievement of that goal. That's how it's so easy to tell the difference between a liberal and a Leftist. If you're one of the ones tossing epithets at non-Leftist solutions, then you're a Leftist. If your mind is open to a different path of achieving your goal, then you're a liberal.

Jim said...

Minzo -

"Please find me a leftist who thinks America is as equally good as, say North Korea or Afghanistan or Burma? I think you are completely wrong here."

Try looking at the Communist Party if you want defenders of North Korea. Try looking at the multi-culturalists for those who defend Afghanistan and their right to stone gays and subjugate women because "we need to respect their culture." Try looking at those who blame American policy in Southeast Asia for the rise of the military junta in Myanmar.

Leftists: every single one of them. Any other questions?

Minzo said...

Jim- Ok, now I see what you mean. Seems we might agree more than we disagree. Good post (The long one above your last one)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It is a mistake (IMO) to put people in a left-wing or right-wing box. It might simplify your life to think of them that way, but real life is complex. Embrace the complexity of your political opponents.


I agree. There are many dimensions and the attempt to pigeonhole everyone who voted one way or the other is too simplistic.

This is the type of crap that idiot trolls like Jeremey try to pull. If you voted for Bush you must be..... or must believe..... Same crappola that DTL, who only views the world through his dick and gayness, argues. If you are Republican or Catholic, you must hate gays.

It is nauseating and shows a very low level of debating ability as well as a distinct lack of critical thinking.

Like all internet tests, this one isn't really definitive, but it is better than most. According to it, I'm right there with Milton Friedman. Libertarian but economic conservative.

Jim said...

minzo -

"Seems we might agree more than we disagree."

I wholeheartedly agree. We, as a people, need to move beyond the artificial divisions created by "politics as usual."

I think that the solutions to most of our society's ills are going to have to be found in discussions like these between people of good intentions and imposed on our political class, not vice versa.

It's a mistake to look to government to solve our problems. As Americans, we have more common sense and ability than all of the politicans across the country combined. It's long past time we stopped looking into failed ideologies like Leftism to solve our problems, and time to sit down over a couple of beers and figure things out.

My father-in-law likes to joke whenever he comes to visit that we can solve all the world's problems during our discussions that invariably linger long into the night, but I think there's a great deal of truth in his humor.

Paul said...

Ah Professor Althouse you caught me dead to rights misspelling "bred"...I was thinking of me breakfast no doubt.

Hey Invisible Man. Truther? Fuck you you little worm.

Obama's mama was a commie who met his commie father in Russian class, was raised by his socialist grandparents and his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a member of the CPUSA. That's for openers you stupid asshole.

Yeah and there's his self admitted penchant for hanging out with Marxists and "structural feminists" in college. Sprinkle in 20 years of God Damn America and season with "help me REMAKE America". Not to mention his "watch me fuck America for good" actions in his first 6 mos. in office with lots mo' to come.

I live in liberal land and work with committed (they oughta be) lefties and Obamabots and they never tire of running down the good ole' USA. So I know me some Anti-Americanism when I see it.

TZ said...

Jim,
Just a quick thanks from me for your contributions. You have your points of view, and you back them up reasonably, rationally, and thoroughly. Very refreshing. I believe even those who disagree with you appreciate that.

I was not really familiar with Goldberg before, but now having seen her in action, I will be pleased to cheefully ignore her in the future. She's about as deep as Dowd.

A dead giveaway in this whole Palin drama is when Goldberg discusses why she "hates" her. That's the word: hate. That's what I just don't understand. Hate does explain why someone would go after somebody's kids, or become obsessed with somebody's womb, or press charges against somebody for holding a fish, but there is no explanation for the hate. It's irrational.

Jim said...

Back to the subject at hand, I think that this is the essential appeal of Sarah Palin: she strikes many as the kind of person who you would sit down over a couple of beers with to hammer out a solution to a problem rather than toeing a party line about which is the only acceptable solution.

Her most ardent supporters may be right, and they may be wrong. But at the very least, Palin is a step in the right direction away from looking to those who currently inhabit Washington, DC, for answers they clearly don't have.

Decrying her lack of an Ivy League education, or her lack of experience inside the Beltway, or mocking her real-life family experiences; only shows a mindset which hasn't yet grasped this sessential truth. It's reactionary, not progressive to take these things as negatives.

She may not be perfect, but people like her are where we're going to have to look to find our way out from the mess that big government has created.

You're not a fan of Palin's? Fine. Then show me who you believe better represents the common sense required to tackle Washington DC's corrupt political culture. It's clearly not Obama: his answer to every question is increasing the size, power and reach of the federal government. If the choice is between someone who believes that government is the solution and someone who understands that government is the problem, I'll take the one with enough common sense to have figured it out over the one insists on digging the hole deeper every time.

Jim said...

TZ -

Thank you very much. You are too kind.

ricpic said...

Sarah's crazy. Based on what? Based on nothing but lefty vomitarians getting together and deciding to call her crazy. And that's how the agenda is set in the good ol' USSofA.

mccullough said...

Obama's incompetence has nothing to do with Palin. Don't let Palin's resignation distract from Obama's poor performance.

The only thing Obama's gotten right so far in office is that he picked UNC to win the NCAA tournament.

He said that with your stimulus, unemployment would not exceed 8 percent. He was wrong. He has badly misjudged the economy. Does anyone have confidence in his health care plan or energy plan?

It turns out that blaming W. for everthing was an effective campaign strategy but not a viable approach to governing.

Obama was even more unprepared for the presidency than W. or JFK and it is showing. Both our allies and our enemies think he's a joke.

Invisible Man said...

Hey Invisible Man. Truther? Fuck you you little worm.

Obama's mama was a commie who met his commie father in Russian class, was raised by his socialist grandparents and his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a member of the CPUSA. That's for openers you stupid asshole.


Somebody's a little grouchy today! I'm guessing that your commie mother brought your bread this morning despite your obvious disdain for it, Obama and America.

Jeremy said...

Et tu, Fox?

Even Fox News has started to turn on Sarah Palin. In the midst of a segment about the Alaska Governor's battle against "liberal" attacks, Liz Trotta went off-message.

Frankly, "the woman is inarticulate, undereducated," Trotta said, arguing that for once liberal criticism was "well-deserved."

"I think all the liberal stylists ... really have a case. She just begs for adjectives like flaky and wacky." When pressed, she added, "We're talking about somebody who, right from the get-go, has been a flashy person who gets into a lot of trouble and really has no credentials for any job."

Jeremy said...

Chase said..."No one in 1962 thought Richard Nixon would become President of the United States a mere 6 years later."

There's nothing like fools using a disgraced, lying, anti-Semitic crook of a President as a shining example of how Princess Sarah will ride again!!

Good work, Chase.

avwh said...

"We're talking about somebody who, right from the get-go, has been a flashy person who gets into a lot of trouble and really has no credentials for any job."

Wow - sounds like they've finally done their homework on Obama, after he's screwed with us for 6 months. Too bad that digging wasn't done, oh, sometime BEFORE the election.

Paul said...

"I'm guessing that your commie mother brought your bread this morning despite your obvious disdain for it, Obama and America."

You're even stupider than I thought if you think that retort was either clever or funny.

Invisible Man said...

Wow - sounds like they've finally done their homework on Obama, after he's screwed with us for 6 months. Too bad that digging wasn't done, oh, sometime BEFORE the election.

Leave the comedy to Carrot Top.

Invisible Man said...

You're even stupider than I thought if you think that retort was either clever or funny.

It was better than avwh, though that's a small bar.

And Paul can we just hug it out.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Decrying her lack of an Ivy League education, or her lack of experience inside the Beltway, or mocking her real-life family experiences;

Well Obama's Ivy League education really shines when he thought they speak 'Austrain' in Austria.


But to the devoted, that's just a tiny gaffe, a mistake. Nothing to see here.

Hoosier Daddy said...

There's nothing like fools using a disgraced, lying, anti-Semitic crook of a President as a shining example of how Princess Sarah will ride again!!

Well in all fairness, Obama isn't quite a disgrace but it has only been six months.

Paul said...

And of course this son of a bitch with his Marxist harpy wife is over in Russia on the Fourth of July weekend. He's just rubbing it in our faces. I wonder whether he's just a useful idiot or is actively working on their behalf.

My money's on the latter.

Invisible Man said...

Paul,

And I thought we could be friends. I've never had friendly relations with a Truther before, nor one so damn angry.

Jim said...

Hoosier -

I had to laugh when Russians pointed out Obama's naiivete on Russian relations by claiming that he would 'hit the reset button.'

I don't remember the exact quote, but it was along the lines of this:

"But when you hit the reset button on a computer, the screen goes dark for a moment and then everything goes back to the way it was."

Or how about his intentional slights of the Queen. Or so badly botching his attendance at a climate change conference that Sarkosy said that Obama was "uneducated and unprepared" to speak on the subject. Or maybe his slights of Angela Merkel in Germany, or the Israelis, or the Hondurans. Or his lack of support for Iranian protesters. Or sending Joe Biden, the guy who wanted to divide Iraq into 3 countries, to negotiate with Iraqis and was told by the Iraqi government to keep his nose out of Iraqi affairs.

Whew...I'm out of breath on the foreign policy lunacy, and we're only six months in. But yeah, "smart diplomacy" is the way to go....

kathleen said...

"No, it totally doesn't bother me that she has children and continues to bear them into her 40's while she was governor!! it doesn't bother me at all! My voice is quavering and I answered so quickly and excitedly precisely because it doesn't bother me at all whatsoever!!!"

Hoosier Daddy said...

Whew...I'm out of breath on the foreign policy lunacy, and we're only six months in. But yeah, "smart diplomacy" is the way to go....

It does make you wonder doesn't it? I think Medevev knows he'll be dealing with a lighweight so it will be interesting to see what kind of deal gets worked out over there.

Then again I stopped worrying about the Russians nuking us oh, almost 20 years ago.

Hoosier Daddy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Russell said...

Michelle wonders why she doesn't have the same hatred for Condoleezza Rice as she does for Sarah Palin. Could it be the cultural divide? Dr. Rice is a college professor whose idea of fun is tackling Brahms' piano works. Palin and her family are rednecks (or white trash, or trailer trash, whichever term is preferred). During the campaign, liberals who were in no danger of running out of ammunition by attacking Palin's policies, or her qualifications, or her state of preparedness for the office, continued to harp on the class distinctions. That's the sort of thing that just makes her more popular with many Republicans.

Jim said...

Saint Russell -

"Michelle wonders why she doesn't have the same hatred for Condoleezza Rice as she does for Sarah Palin."

I can tell you exactly why, and it has nothing to do with class. It has everything to do with the fact that Condeleeza Rice isn't any threat to Leftists. She's not now, nor will she likely ever be a candidate for national political office. So Michelle can be benificent towards Rice.

Let Rice stand for national office as a Republican, and you'll see just how many ways she would find to hate Rice for betraying women, betraying blacks, betraying fellow academics, and so on.

Let Rice be a threat, and you'd find out in a hurry just how much of a dishonest hack Michelle really is.

Shanna said...

Totally agree with DBQ and MM, that the right/left labels are too confined and do quite a lot to gloss over areas of strong agreement between different groups of people. But you can’t get together on an issue with someone who you may agree with if that person is too busy calling you a racist, homophobic, redneck idiot. That is not an attitude that is likely to promote reasonable dialogue.

"We're talking about somebody who, right from the get-go, has been a flashy person who gets into a lot of trouble and really has no credentials for any job."

Anybody who says that someone who went up the ranks in local politics, and has a perfectly respectable bachelors degree and experience in (journalism, right?) has “no credentials for ANY job” is not someone who should be taken seriously.

Cedarford said...

Invisible Man said...
Don't you mean: She wasn't born and bread to loaf and despise The United States Of America.

Sarah Palin, the candidate who hates Bread.


My personal opinion is she is quitting to Get The Bread. Write the book she has a multimillion contract for, start the huge fee honorarium tour to throw out all the red meat her scriptwriters can manage to sloganize to slake her rabid followers. That works, she gets a TV slot.
And she can always be another Jesse Jackson - safe in knowing she is head of a rabidly avid cult of personality driven by charisma -make tons of money while still cast herself as a important power-broker while avoiding the tedium of elective office.

Jackson also had 2 problems similar to Palin.

1. He had cast himself - by huge ego - as a National Leader too important to lower himself to holding state office or representing any particular state in Congress.
2. He had significant educational deficiencies and knowledge holes that showed Jackson nearly incoherent when talking outside the select areas he was comfortable with. To cover this, Jesse spoke in slogans, managed his media interviews, and became a master at deflecting questions he didn't know how to answer.

But Jesse had a great run of 20 or so years. Kept "his people" whooping and hollerin' for him to be President..while making 10s of millions and feeding his ego near weekly with mass media coverage of a "Jesse Jackson" moment. His own TV and radio show. Loathed by people outside his Cult, but crying tears of joy on his way to the bank to cash his checks.

Palin could do almost as well playing the Jesse of the religious, white, Right.

Jim said...

Hoosier -

"Then again I stopped worrying about the Russians nuking us oh, almost 20 years ago."

You're not endorsing the foreign policy achievements of a conservative, are you?

"Peace through strength" actually works? What?

Don't you know that the only effective foreign policy is meaningless negotiations with thugs and tyrants while simultaneously cutting the budgets for the military and missile defense? You know the missile defense that Obama had no problem deploying when North Korea threatened to launch a missile at Hawaii? Yeah, that one. Turns out that "smart diplomacy" requires that we invest less money in developing it. Who knew?

Saint Russell said...

Don't you mean: She wasn't born and bread to loaf and despise The United States Of America.

Loaf? Just wait until Titus catches a whiff of this!

Eldan said...

I can finally reveal why Palin resigned. On NBC this fall, it's the Sarah Palin show, with Tina Fey as her identical cousin.

Invisible Man said...

I can finally reveal why Palin resigned. On NBC this fall, it's the Sarah Palin show, with Tina Fey as her identical cousin.

That would be so Meta. I'm just hoping that Kenneth the Page gets to play Jindal.

jr565 said...

Invisible Man wrote:
Let me state again for the record when comparing your uneducated opinion about someone's love for this country, Sarah Palin is married to a man who wanted to SECEDE FROM THE UNION.

Please PROVE that by citing mutliple sources. Come up with some quotes from Todd Palin where he expresses any desire to secede. That's outright garbage. The party he belongs to is not the extremist party it's made out to be at all, though don't let that stop you from spreading your garbage.

jr565 said...

Also, someone wrote:
Obama's mama was a commie who met his commie father in Russian class, was raised by his socialist grandparents and his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a member of the CPUSA. That's for openers you stupid asshole.

While this is a bit harsh and angry, the fact of the matter is, this is essentially all true. Now one could say that this was just OBama in his youth and that he changed his stance on communism and lefty radicalism, though it surely doesn't look that way considering the people he hung with as well as his natural stances and cadences. Just today Andy Mccarthy brought up an article written by Obama back in his Columbia days when he was a lefty radical where even then he was esousing his social justice and anti militarism rhetoric and his stance on a nuclear freeze, and then think about what he's trying to do with Russia? How much has he actually changed?
You may say he was right to begin with, which is fair, but at least then acknowledge his far lefty bonafides. And if he HAS changed please provide the evidence that he has done so.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/nytint/docs/obama-s-1983-college-magazine-article/original.pdf

Paul said...

"While this is a bit harsh and angry"

You're damn right I'm angry, and if you're not angry watching this bastard doing his level best to finish off what's left of the most free society in the the world then you need to re-examine your viewpoint.

Invisible Man said...

jr56,

Here's the thing, I don't really give a flip. I'm not out hunting for reds, or spending my time making triangulated argments based upon who know someone that knows someone whose a racist/jerk/cat killer. If you really want to look at the evidence of which I speak, take a minute and go to ttp://www.akip.org/, an organization of which Todd was a paying dues member of. How Todd actually feels in his heart or head, I don't know, but that's because I don't think that I have the power to read minds as Jim and Paul do.

All I'm trying to demonstrate for the yokels is how easy it is to demonize your opposition when you so choose. Obama hates America because he goes to a church where a preacher makes some controversial remarks in some sermon, but these same people making these claims want to dismiss the fact that Todd was a member of an organization that actually wants to leave America. It would be great if I could get them to show some self-awarness of their own hypocrisy, but that's like asking Sweet Sarah to do the same.

garage mahal said...

If Paul hates America why doesn't he just leave?

rhhardin said...

Very amusing. A bloggingheads reenacting the typical troll comments at Althouse.

Every re-explanation brings in a new external fact about Palin and her audience.

She's protecting a theoretical position, not an emotional one.

Paul said...

"If Paul hates America why doesn't he just leave?"

Hating assholes like Obama and his minions = hating the country they are hell bent on destroying.

Right.

More evidence of the razor sharp critical thinking skills of one of the stupidest commenters you're likely to find on this blog or any other.

And were you all giddy with yourself when you came up with your moniker? Did you fancy yourself as oh so clever?

Christ you are a joke.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.


What is the problem with this? The people of Alaska didn't get a proper vote to determine if they wanted to become a State. This seems perfectly logical.

Texas is floating thoughts of secession as well. And a large portion of the people where I reside would vote in a heartbeat to divorce ourselves from the State of California. Jefferson State ftw.

We believe and hold a firm footing in the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and following the Constitution of the United States and Alaska. We are a States' Rights party, as is reflected in the AIP Platform. We stand on a firm Constitutional foundation.

In fact the AIP seems to have a higher regard for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights than either Obama or Congress does. They don't HATE America. They love it. They HATE what Obama has done to America.

The sad part is that those who also secretly hate in their hearts what America is and who want to see America as a concept destroyed....will never understand the Palins or much of the feelings of regular Americans.

Jeremy said...

Dust Bunny - "Texas is floating thoughts of secession as well."

(First of all, I thought Princess Sarah denies having anything to do with such matters?)

Second, will Alaska and Texas be refusing any assistance from the Federal Government from that point forward?

GFL

Jeremy said...

Paul said..."You're damn right I'm angry, and if you're not angry watching this bastard doing his level best to finish off what's left of the most free society in the the world then you need to re-examine your viewpoint."

Paul, you're a fucking moron.

Jeremy said...

mccullough said..."Obama's incompetence has nothing to do with Palin. Don't let Palin's resignation distract from Obama's poor performance."

And yet another ridiculous comment from one of the local crazos.

Obama's been President for 6 months and all you hear from 95% of the wingnut crowd here is how "imcompetent" he is.

And I bet you all voted for Mr. Competent...G.W. Bush...and of course, Johnny and his little quitter princess.

Right?

You people just keep getting dumber by the minute...and boy is it fun listening to you spending every day...whining and bitching.

Jeremy said...

Obama is like a chess player who is playing simultaneous chess and has opened his game with an unusual opening. Now he's got to play his hand as he plays his various counterparts. We haven't gotten beyond the opening game move yet. I have no quarrel with the opening move.
(Henry Kissinger)

garage mahal said...

Secessionists are actually patriotic. They love their country so much they want to leave it!

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag."

“I’m an Alaskan, not an American. I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.”

-Joe Volger*, founder of AIP

*Died in 1993 under mysterious circumstances wrapped in a blue tarp and duct tape apparently from a black market plastic explosives deal gone bad. Totally mainstream!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

*Died in 1993 under mysterious circumstances wrapped in a blue tarp and duct tape apparently from a black market plastic explosives deal gone bad. Totally mainstream!


Well, at least he wasn't found hanging in a closet wearing fish net nylons.

Sorry...couldn't help myself.

Jeremy said...

Dust Bunny thinks secessionists are really cool.

Dust Bunny is also an idiot.

jr565 said...

Further to Dust Bunny's point about the Alaskan independence Party, there's this:
The Alaskan Independence Party was originally founded with the goal of getting Alaskans a right to vote on their statehood, much the same way Puerto Rico has a vote on its statehood. Referring to Alaska's 1959 admission to the union, the AIP charter states: "The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four choices:

Remain a Territory.
Become a separate and Independent Nation.
Accept Commonwealth status.
Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences."[3]

Since its founding, the AIP has radically changed with respect to the issue of secession. At present, it does not support secession, though, at its founding, it did.

It has become a mainstream party in Alaska, and is not actively calling for secession. It's the equivalent of voting for a third party, and in fact is the third largest party in Alaska. THey have a bug up their ass about how how they became a state but the issue is not that they secede but that they are allowed to vote on how they want to govern, but noone in the party has actually pushed on actually applying the vote to since 1990. In other words, there is nothing controversial about this party.

Unlike Reverend Wright's "GOD DAMN THE US" church, which Obama sat in for 20 years and who Obama was personally involved with (including having Wright conduct his marriage ceremenoy)for the duration of his time there. "I could no more disown him than I can disown the black community" bespeaks of a relationship that is long and deep and intertined in Obama's life. Show me where Tod Palin is involved personally with Joe Volger. Did he personally know him? have him over for dinner? Have him marry Todd and Sarah? Considering he had died before Todd Palin joined that party it would be kind of tough.

Chase said...

Jeremy,
You and I have had civil conversation before.

Please let me know what you seriously think. This isn't a trick question, and I promise to not be disrespectful. Give it an honest moment of thought and then please explain:

What would a Sarah Palin Presidential Administration look like and therefore, what would America be like during a Sarah Palin Administration?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dust Bunny thinks secessionists are really cool.

Why, yes! I do have admiration for the likes of John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, George Washington and the rest of the Founding Fathers.

Very perceptive of you.

garage mahal said...

And were you all giddy with yourself when you came up with your moniker? Did you fancy yourself as oh so clever?.

I was thinking "I love this country".

I'm assuming you couldn't come up with something a little more original than "Paul" because you were too busy burning American flags and shouting Death to America!

jr565 said...

Jeremey,
Whats even funner is having to listen to 8 years of whining and bitching and gnashing of teeth about how Bush was the worst president EVER and how we were living in a police state, and not just whining, but whining of an unprecedented level.You know "speaking truth to power" and all that. And yet watching Obama back track on almost all his campaign promises and implementing or defending Bush policies that only a year ago were the sign of Naziism in America and suddenly hearing....silence from the left. Priceless.What happened to speaking truth to power jeremy? You do know that even now Obama is air raiding villages and killing civilians don't you in Pakistan? Where is Code Pink when you need them? Where is the media when you need them? Well the media is still fixated on Trig Palin and Michael Jackson, plus they were bought and paid for already so wont do anything to rock the boat. But you lefties, what happened? We miss the Cindy Sheehan's and the Michael Moore and the nightly harangues? Come back Shane, come back!

Jeremy said...

jr565 - "Show me where Tod Palin is involved personally with Joe Volger. Did he personally know him?"

Sarah Palin and her husband Todd have had a long and, as of March 2008, ongoing association with the Alaska Independence Party. Tod Palin was a registered member of the AIP from 1995 to 2002. Sarah...

So...technically you're correct, Todd didn't know Volger "personally"...because Volger he was already dead. But he sure liked what the man stood for, and Princess Sarah gave speeches to the people who followed him.

Princess Sarah delivered a speech in March 2008 for the Alaskan Independence Party Convention, where AIP vice chair George Clarke told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as the mayor of a small town.

Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, told ABC News on Monday that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.

And are you also inferring that current day Nazis, aren't really Nazis...because they didn't know Hitler "personally?"

Jeremy said...

jr565 - George W. Bush will be remembered as one of the most inept Presidents in our nation's history.

Bitching and whining about everything Obama will never erase the damage he and his administration did to our country's reputation.

Jeremy said...

Dust Bunny - You can spin it any way you want, but we all know where you and your ilk are coming from.

You and the rest of the people who whine about government are the same people who accept government assistance (just as Princess Sarah did when she took 95% of the money provided), and unless you're already doing so, you'll gladly accept Medicare and Medicaid.

And you know it, too.

scinfinity said...

I'll just also remind that in 1988, Clinton was just a guy who gave an unbelievably boring speech at the DNC that had its biggest applause line being "In closing..."

Then why did Sarah Palin send a video message to this fringe radical party? Is it not unusual to send a congratulatory message to a rival party? Especially these fruitcake weirdos. And here she is speaking in front of a 49 star flag.

Obama was a member of the Socialist New Party in, at least, 1996.

He didn't speak before them --- he was a MEMBER of them.

Seems a bit worse than Palin AIM, eh?

jr565 said...

For all Bush's ineptness, he liberated not one but two countries. And could tell right off the bat that Iran was a country that couldn't be negotiated with without preconditions. Obama, after seeing two weeks of people being killed in the streets can barely register a reaction other than that he is troubled. Then in Honduras, he instinctively sides against the people with a president who tried to give himself powers he didnt have (You know, kind of like what the left accused Bush of doing)just like his buddy Chavez.
On the economic front, for all you say about Bush's handling of the economy, in only 6 months Obama has quadrupled the national debt,and people like Krugman are now saying a second stimulus is needed because apparently he wants to quadruple the debt again. Meanwhile Obama's energy policy consists of "necessarily" bankrupting the coal industry while taxing people through the wazoo on their energy consumption (and also driving up prices on everything from food to transportation while hes at it, not to mention killing more and more jobs). Through it all though,it will be a constant that Obama will blame Bush and those who formerly savaged Bush for misnahding the economy will be oh so silent while Obama drives the country off a cliff. Speaking truth to Power, my ass.

garage mahal said...

He didn't speak before them --- he was a MEMBER of them..

Linky? Remember, getting endorsed and being a member are actually two different things.

jr565 said...

Paul wrote:
You're damn right I'm angry, and if you're not angry watching this bastard doing his level best to finish off what's left of the most free society in the the world then you need to re-examine your viewpoint.

Sorry, I meant to say "this is a bit harsh and angry, IN TONE.But is still essentially true". Your critics were trying to use the fact that you were angry in tone to suggest that somehow you were being less than truthful in your characterization. Obama is a far lefty radical who surrounded himself with far lefty radicals including those who bombded the pentagon and those who routinely say "God damn AmeriKKKa!" and various communist groups and radicals of various stripes for his entire life. that is who he is.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/2008/10/web-archives-confirm-barack-obama-was.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/archives_prove_obama_was_a_new.html

There you go garage.

Jeremy said...

scinfinity - Another nitwit whining about "socialism."

Not accepting Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, etc.?

We all know the answer to those questions.

garage mahal said...

Pretty flimsy DBQ. Is New Party the same as Socialist New Party?

Jim said...

Invisible -

"Obama hates America because he goes to a church where a preacher makes some controversial remarks in some sermon"

It wasn't just some "controversial remarks," and you know it. You're being completely dishonest. The church admittedly teaches Black Liberation Theology. Look it up, then get back to me.

When Obama joined the church, he signed onto its teachings. He sat in the pews for 20 years and said nothing.

If he wants to claim that it was a mistake and he shouldn't have done it, then I might give him the credit to say that he doesn't subscribe to it.

But he hasn't. He bought the man's tapes to practice his oratory. Trying to claim that he didn't know what the man taught or that he never heard such things is a lie of monumental proportions. You may give him a pass on it, but claiming that he's not lying is to be lying yourself.

traditionalguy said...

I just got time to watch the professor and Goldberg's chat. Michelle Goldberg was in hyper attack mode for an hour. She reminded me of a sociopath gleefully torturing an animal to death with false spins on everthing true or untrue Palin ever has been accused of. In the end, she admits that she is reacting with a visceral hatred to Palin for some reason she can only call "a Weimar atmosphere" surrounding Sarah. Frankly, today's anti-Palin harpies are the insane ones. Michelle's example of this pathology became more and more to resemble an intense scene from the movie The Exorcist.

jr565 said...

Jeremy,
You are SO full of shit, constipated people are in awe of the degree to which shit encompasses you. I can smell your bullshit from here.

First off:
Sarah Palin and her husband Todd have had a long and, as of March 2008, ongoing association with the Alaska Independence Party. Tod Palin was a registered member of the AIP from 1995 to 2002Ok, so how if you readily acknowledge that Todd was registered through 2002 does he still have an ongoing association? Second, where are you getting your info from. This is now a mainstream party. It doesn't have people blowing up buildings (unlike some of Obama's proteges who tried to blow up the Pentagon) and is not even advocating secession at this point, and hasn't for years. You'd first have to establish that Todd was a member of the AIP because of their secessionist views and not simply because they were a mainstream party at the time he joined them. Surely you can find some quotes from Todd about his secessionist views.


So...technically you're correct, Todd didn't know Volger "personally"...because Volger he was already dead. But he sure liked what the man stood for, and Princess Sarah gave speeches to the people who followed him.
How do you know he liked what the man stood for and is not with the AIP for what they stand for now or what they stood for in 1995 when he joined. Because by 1995 they were no longer a fringe group. They are now the 3rd largest political party in Alaska, which is exactly why Sarah Palin AS GOVERNOR spoke to them.

Princess Sarah delivered a speech in March 2008 for the Alaskan Independence Party Convention, where AIP vice chair George Clarke told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as the mayor of a small town. Like most of the "facts" about Sarah Palin, this is simply bogus. If she were in fact an AIP member, then please provide the links where she was Jeremy. It's ok,we'lll wait.

Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, told ABC News on Monday that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time. Well we know that Todd was part of the party in 1995, so this makes sense doesnt' it? Again, plese provide detailed evidence that Todd was advocating secession in 1995 or that the AIP was still pushing for active secession. Further, you do realize that a lot of states have pushed for secession right? Like for example Hawaii. Hey, look at this:
http://www.nativevillage.org/Messages%20from%20the%20People/Hawaii%20Announces%20Secession.htm

Do you know about Daniel Akakaka? Isn't he a democrat? He was trying to pass a bill that would give Hawains their own race based and SEPARATE soveireign govt.
Said Okkaa at the time about whether his bill could lead to secession: "Sen. Akaka undermined his own bill last year when he made statements to National Public Radio that the sovereignty granted Native Hawaiians in the bill could eventually lead to secession. "That could be, As far as what's going to happen at the other end, I'm leaving it up to my grandchildren and great-grandchildren."
Who voted for that Bill? Why, Obama and Biden. Where's your outrage about Akaka pushing for secession?

And are you also inferring that current day Nazis, aren't really Nazis...because they didn't know Hitler "personally?" So now the AIP is the equivalent of Nazis? Nice invocation of Godwins Law. Obama knows Ayers personally. Obama knows Wright personally.We don't have to conjecture about that at all. In fact, Obama has a nice long 20 year relationship with Wright one that he could no more disown than the black community itself. If Todd Palin said he could no more disown Vogler than he could disown the Innuit community than you could have a leg to stand on. Otherwise you're just trying to play 6 degrees of Separation. But please get more talking points from Daily Kos. They are so informative and entertaining.

Jim said...

DBQ -

It's no use trying to prove anything to these two. If Obama himself got on TV and admitted it, they would tell people that he was forced to say something that wasn't true in order to appease some mysterious third party - maybe the Bilderbergers or Illuminati or some such insanity.

They can't be argued from their position because they were never argued into it. It is a matter of blind faith that Leftists can do wrong, and any suggestion to the contrary must be met with scorn and derision.

[And in true juvenile fashion, I will await trollboy to selectively cut and paste "Leftists can do no wrong" and triumphantly claim "I agree!" without the self-awareness to realize that he just proved my point.]

Hoosier Daddy said...

Obama hates America because he goes to a church where a preacher makes some controversial remarks in some sermon,

Did you miss the part where Wright admitted he made those 'controversial sermons' for 20 years? I guess so because that would rather destroy your belief that it was a one time off the rails sermon. Then again if you saw the congregation whooping and hollering it up, that leads me to believe it was more than a one time sermon.

Then again should I care Todd Palin was a member of some fringe secessionist party? I suppose if Todd was running for President of the USA it might be prudent to look into it but alas, bad analogy since Todd wasn't running for anything. But hey, keep banging that drum if you think it gives you a stronger argument. I'll do my best not to keep laughing my ass off.

Don't you find it the least bit amazing that the media didn't dig a bit more into the whole church and the Black Liberation Theology? Maybe not if you're in the tank for the clean, articulate storybook candidate. Such investigation might cast a pall over that otherwise hope and changey message.

Hoosier Daddy said...

scinfinity - Another nitwit whining about "socialism."

Not accepting Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, etc.?


It would help your argument if you actually understood what socialism is.

fivewheels said...

Ms. Goldberg does seem to be just about the most self-unaware person ever, repetitively calling other people insane, crazy, delusional, obsessive and resentful. I only downloaded the mp3 for my walk to and from work, but I'm tempted to check out the video just to see if she's actually foaming at the mouth. And I say this as someone who hasn't voted Republican in a national election since 1988.

But Althouse, what happened to the trademark bloggingheads blue striped shirt?

Jeremy said...

Hoosier Daddy "It would help your argument if you actually understood what socialism is."

Really?

So are you saying what follows do not represent "socialist," government sponsored programs currently available in America?

Civil Service Retirement Systems
Federal Employee Retirement Systems
Railroad Retirement System

Housing & Urban Development (HUD) Programs
Public Housing
Rental Vouchers & Certificates
Section 8 Housing Vouchers
Shelter Plus Care
Single Room Occupancy
Low Income Home Energy Assistance

Social Security (OASDI)
Unemployment Insurance
Temporary Disability Insurance
Medicare
Medicaid
Medicare Prescription Drug Plan

Supplemental Security Income
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
Food Stamp Program
Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
National School Lunch Program
School Breakfast Program
United States Department of Agriculture (USDA)

Are you saying you and others with like minds are not taking advantage of ANY of these programs? None of your relatives, none of your friends?

You're full of shit and you know it.

Jeremy said...

jr565 - They were members, she gave speeches in 2008 and you're just trying to erase their past.

Just as they are.

And it's not going to work.

She'll make millions giving speeches, writing her book (actually having someone write it) and appearing on TV shows.

That's exactly why she quit. For the MONEY.

Jeremy said...

Hoosier - Educate yourself.

http://www.occams-razor.info/2008/11/america_loves_socialism.html

Hoosier Daddy said...

Are you saying you and others with like minds are not taking advantage of ANY of these programs? None of your relatives, none of your friends?

Ok Jeremy I'm going to throw you a lifeline here.


Socialism from from Webster's dictionary


You're full of shit and you know it.

That may be but you continue to demonstrate your complete stupidity every time you post here. None of those programs are socialist. At best half can be described as welfare or in the case of Medicare and SSA being government sponsered retirement programs in which the beneficiaries paid into and continue to do so to receive benefits. Not quite the same as getting a government check to sit home and breed.

Do you actually ever have a coherent thought?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier - Educate yourself.


Actually I stopped reading after he talked about the success of Medicare. I suppose it requires a new definition of the word 'success' to describe a program that is projected to be insolvent in a decade.

jr565 said...

Jeremy, We know Todd was a member. through 2002. Since then he's been a republican. Please provide the detailed information that you have compiled proving that Sarah Palin was a member of that group at any time. Give me 5 credible links. Not some shit that dailykos made up or was peddled by the Democratic Underground, or some crap matt Damon said in passing. Actual linkswith actual facts. 3 links? Any links? Surely you have some and aren't talking completely out of your asshole. Or provide the links of all the extremist activity recently carried out by the AIP.

I'm relatively sure that 90% of the "facts" dredged up by your side are nothing but scurilous attacks. And again, even if she were to be a member of said group, its not an extremist group. It's founder may have been slightly extreme, but unlike say Ayers, he never actually resorted to violence to achieve his aims,nor did Alaska ever secede, nor was there a vote to get Alaska to secede. And that party has been around for ages. So you have to go out of your way to mischaracterize what that party is even about now. I'm sure that until you read your little talking points from KOS you never heard of the AIP. Nor do you know there current stances on most issues, nor where Todd or Sarah are in that group. I might listen if you could provide 5 links though that prove your argument. Can you do that?

Because I can provide many links that show without fail that Obama was linked to Wright's church, and not just linked second hand, but that Wright had a personal long lasting relationship with obama, and that Ayers had a long relationship with Obama. I thought though that past associations didn't matter? Are you so ashamed or fearful of Obama's past associations that you have to fabricate associations for Sarah Palin and Todd Palin to show that they too are extremists? On what evidence? It only proves you're a hypocrite and that past associations do matter to you, as well they should just for your enemies though. Its just too bad you have to make up a boogeyman to attack to deflect from the fact that Obama is a radical and has surrounded himself with radicals for his entire lives. And even mentions some of them in his own book. If you or the media gave one tenth the shit that you do about Todd Palin being part of a party in 1995 that never actually seceeded or attempted to secede from the US and ascribing sinister motivations to it when its the third largest party in alaska and has been mainstream for close to 20 years, to Obama's association with either Wright or Ayers or who knows we wouldn't be having this conversation.

When in fact you KNOW and we KNOW without any doubts that obama has aligned himself with radicals his whole life. Sorry you want to cover that up and say "look over there, Todd Palin is a secessionist and Sarah Palin made people buy their own rape kits and wasn't really the mother of Trig" or whatever it is you're peddling to cover up the story you refuse to shine the light on. Sorry, propagandist. We can see right through your garbage.
Why not instead say, so what Obama surrounded with communists and radicals and is a radical and there's nothing wrong with that? That would at least be the truth. Instead we have to have Obama throw all of his old colleauges under the bus while a pliant media and sycophants like yourself try to change the subject and because Obama can't admit who he was. If he's no longer the radical he was through most of his life, that's fair, but please show uw where he changed.

jr565 said...

Jeremy wrote:
And it's not going to work.

She'll make millions giving speeches, writing her book (actually having someone write it) and appearing on TV shows.

and this is a problem because....?
I seem to recall another presidential candidate writing a book about their lives. Actually, I seem to recall many candidates and presidents writing about their lives. Here's the thing. She is bankable and an icon. 5 months after the election, you guys and guys in the media are still going after her. So why shouldnt' she capitalize on that?Maybe in writing her book she can set the record straight on what she actually believes and her actual history so we don't have to hear rumors and innuendo posing as facts from her enemies like yourself which you try to pass off as absolute truth. If she's smart she'll address each and every charge leveled and then refute it with actual details. Plus considering the dems did nothing but sue her administrations over and over again for ethics violations EVERYONE ONE OF WHICH she's beaten, she's now in the hole and might need some money to pay off her legal bills.

Paul said...

"I'm assuming you couldn't come up with something a little more original than "Paul" because you were too busy burning American flags and shouting Death to America!'

Well you are always wrong aren't you, so of course you would make a foolish and erroneous assumption like that?

And guess what. Paul is my name. That's why I use it as opposed to some pretentious nonsense that screams "I'm an emotionally arrested juvenile who thinks he's cool but am way too stupid to realize I've just exposed myself as an ass."

And with patriots like you, Garage Mahal, who need quislings and traitors?

Paul said...

jr565,

I'd suggest that you not waste time engaging in any discourse with the vile, sickening, poisonous little subhuman troll that calls itself Jeremy. It is a creature remarkable for it's utter lack of any redeeming features whatsoever.

MadisonMan said...

There was a Quisling Clinic in Madison for years. Cousin, or some such relative, of the Quisling who earned the name.

So Quisling means something different to me.

Penny said...

This was an interesting Bloggingheads. Ann you did a wonderful job, as usual. It isn't always easy fascilitating a discussion of two while fully participating, and you did both with ease. Michelle, I love that you have the passion that you do. You know how you FEEL!(God dammit!) I think one of the things that Ann was trying to get you to do was to analyze the "why's" behind all those strong feelings, and I would urge you to do the same. I think we have a habit of arguing from our "corners", instead of actively listening, and searching for our own PERSONAL "center". Things are less hard-edged there. There is less black and white for sure, but it isn't gray. It is rich with all primary colors mixed together, two or three at a time, forming unique, new colors on that day's palate.

That said, it makes me wonder. Does HATE have a color all its own?

Invisible Man said...

And guess what. Paul is my name. That's why I use it as opposed to some pretentious nonsense that screams "I'm an emotionally arrested juvenile who thinks he's cool but am way too stupid to realize I've just exposed myself as an ass."

Paul with the sweet nothings about ass. I guess we know which way your swinging these days big boy.

dick said...

Minzo,

The NAACP has been adamant that the president has to speak at their annual meetings. Why should the Republican president show up to speak to them when there is not a snowball's chance in Hell that the leaders will not diss him right after he has spoken and many times even before he has spoken. This is somewhat the same. The convention was held in her state, she was the governor, she spoke to welcome them to the state as visitors. Happens all the time with the other parties. That is part of what governors do, regardless of whether they support that group or not. In her case she did not support that group. You can bloviate all over the place about it but the truth is she spoke only to welcome them to the state and then got out. She did not join the party nor did she support the party.

scinfinity said...

"Linky? Remember, getting endorsed and being a member are actually two different things."

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-file-41-obama-was-new-party.html

The New Party listed him as a member. But I bet they didn't really know or anything, right?

And they did differentiate between "endorsed" and "members". They had some candidates they listed as being endorsed and others listed as being members.

Not accepting Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, etc.?

No, I'm actually not. Now, would you stop stealing my money to fund these jokes?

writing her book (actually having someone write it)

So, she'll be just like Obama?

TZ said...

Garage,

I think they just refer to themselves as the New Party. I haven't done a lot of reading up on the (because, well, why?), but I think they would fall into the "social democratic" pigeon hole, if one were to put them into a pigeon hole. It's probably similar to the social democratic parties one would find in Europe. Socialism-lite, maybe.

A real, committed socialist probably thinks they are lightweights, but most of those committed socialists are too busy grading theses and working on tenure to get much involved.

So, not quite socialist, but within the context of the American political spectrum, very fringy.

Now I'm interested enough to do some more serious reading to see if I just wasted Ann's bandwidth talking out of my ass.

rcocean said...

The liberals and the Establishment Republicans (Kristol, Goldberg, Hewitt) fear Palin because she isn't one of them.

They had the same attitude toward Reagan - who was labeled in 1976-1980 a "dunce" and a "Right-wing extremist" by Dole/Carter/Ford.

Any popular politician who even looks like they might really change things - scares the Hell out them.

Jim said...

scifinity -

"So, she'll be just like Obama?"

No. She's honest enough to say that someone has been brought in to actually do the writing for her. And from what I understand, that author isn't an unrepentant terrorist either.

rhhardin said...

Bloomberg isn't happy with Obama

The federal picture is so bleak because the Obama administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the U.S. I would imagine that he would be the intergalactic champion as well, if we could gather the data on deficits on other worlds.

via Maggie's Farm

Dust Bunny Queen said...

That said, it makes me wonder. Does HATE have a color all its own?

It might if you have synesthesia (I have a bit)

Musical tones have color and spoken words have colors. HATE is sort of an ugly dark yellow, slightly brown with lime undertones.

AlphaLiberal said...

If they can just upload enough information into her, and manage her properly.... she'll be a great candidate. .

Haven't we learned yet these candidates make lousy elected officials? Such candidates can't handle the real problems the office holders encounter.

TZ said...

I agree with Alpha to a point on this. I like Palin. I like her story and what she's done with her life. I respect her. But I need to see her stand on her own without "uploads" and "management" before I'd decide to support her in a run for the gold. I have nothing at all against her, and wish her well, but I need to see something. No Titus, not those.

traditionalguy said...

Hey alpha...That part about up-loading into her etc. is a deliberate mis-quote when taken out of the context of that part of the discussion. Those words referred only to political campaign strategy when they were used. In any event, every leader in the world with a confidence in their staff gets as much uploading into them as they can before downloading a good policy or decision.

AJ Lynch said...

Addled. Michele Goldberg said Palin is addled.

Althouse should have asked why she felt that way and if Goldberg would describe any other national figures (MSM, elected officials) as addled.

Bruce Hayden said...

I found the video interesting, esp. as to the liberal mindset in regards to Sarah Palin. Michelle was just adamant that Palin is delusional thinking that she could be President, but that Obama was not. And that Obama was qualified, and sane, while she was so unqualified that her even thinking about running for President was indicia of how far gone she is.

Ann seemed to be trying to make the point that the only reason that we think now that Obama was not delusional was that he succeeded. And she kept asserting that Palin wasn't smart enough or qualified enough to be a school superintendent. Apparently, she believes that Obama is so brilliant that he didn't need any accomplishments to qualify for running and becoming President. But, of course, she never would explain why she believed that Obama was so brilliant.

The problem is, I think, that even if Obama were as brilliant as Michelle and her ilk believe (apparently with no basis), he still didn't have the knowledge base required for the job, as evidenced by his disastrous handling of the economy, foreign affairs, etc.

The other thing that I think that Michelle ignores, but is possible at play here is that Obama has no real experience until now in picking advisers and lieutenants. I think he has been rolled by more people on his own side than any couple of his predecessors.

Bruce Hayden said...

The federal picture is so bleak because the Obama administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the U.S. I would imagine that he would be the intergalactic champion as well, if we could gather the data on deficits on other worlds.

What I can't really decide here is whether President Obama is just way over his head here (and not 1/2 as smart as Michelle thinks he is), or is just too weak to stand up to the crazies around him. He has surrounded himself with some very strong people, and I sometimes get the feeling that he is being pushed around.

How could someone push around the President of the United States? Shouldn't happen, but I think that we have seen at least several foreign leaders, as well as Pelosi, Reid, and a number of others in Congress.

Jim said...

Bruce -

"What I can't really decide here is whether President Obama is just way over his head here (and not 1/2 as smart as Michelle thinks he is), or is just too weak to stand up to the crazies around him."

There is a 3rd option which logically explains every action that he has taken to date: he is a Leftist through and through.

Every crisis requires a big government solution.

Recession? Government spending!
Financial Industry? More regulation!
Tobacco? More regulation and higher taxes!
GM and Chrysler? Government takeover!
Environment? Government regulation, government spending and higher taxes! A trifecta!
Health Care? Government regulation, government spending and higher taxes! That's a double trifecta!

With regard to foreign policy: he is an authoritarian statist. So:

- he supports the rights of Iran's theocracy while remaining as silent as possible on those of the protestors
- he snubs democratic allies like England, France, Germany and Israel
- he snuggles up to Chavez and Putin
- he calls the constitutional ouster of a Leftist wanna-be dictator in Honduras a "coup"

Quite frankly, there's absolutely nothing puzzling about Obama at all. He is what he has always been: which of course, bears absolutely no resemblance to the person he told the American public he was last fall, but is exactly what conservatives were ridiculed for trying to warn people that he was.

Paul said...

Bruce H. and Jim:

It goes even deeper. He's no ordinary American leftist. Read this!!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/obama_the_african_colonial.html