June 12, 2009

Did right-wing ideology fuel the Holocaust Museum shooter?

Paul Krugman assumes so.

But the evidence points elsewhere.

109 comments:

scinfinity said...

Man, I bet he was ALL over the assorted "Bush stole the election"; "Bush lied about Iraq to steal the oil for Halliburton"; "Bush is going to declare martial law and end the election in 2008" nonsense, eh?

Krugman seems like the kind of guy who'd be a straight down the middle thinker and not a total political hack and all.

Tiny Jones, Come Home said...

Paul Krugman is a good and thoughtful man. He's given this considerable deliberation, and unless the evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary, it seems we should agree. He is not a fly-by-night prognosticator who abuses pharmaceutical drugs in between bouts of hate-filled speech. He is a Nobel prize winning economist. As such, he deserves our benefit of the doubt.

Salamandyr said...

I don't think what passes for this guy's political ideology could be found anywhere on the left/right axis. No, this kind of crazy is what we might call "perpendicular" to normal thought.

I do wish people like Krugman would stop trying to fit tragedies like this into their ideological catfights. It's unbecoming.

Pogo said...

John Wayne Gacy was a Democrat

Jeffrey Dahmer was a registered Democrat.

Sirhan Sirhan was a democrat.

John W. Hinckley, Jr. was a registered Democrat..

Hitler was a Democrat.

Judas was a registered Democrat.



Krugman's right!
This is fun!!1!

scinfinity said...

The Holocaust Museum shooter also wanted to shoot up Weekly Standard.

So, he hated neo-cons.

Who else hated neo-cons?

Paul Krugman.

Ergo, Krugman is a killer waiting to happen.

Palladian said...

TJCH is right. What better qualification for opining on the psychopathology of a murderer could exist than the Nobel Prize for Economics? I mean, look at the one-time winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, Albert Gore... He's now our LEADING NATIONAL EXPERT IN CLIMATOLOGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT!

People don't seem to know that the Nobel Prize is actually a chip implanted into the brains of winners allowing them to KNOW EVERYTHING EVER, and be experts in everything!

Lem said...

And at this point, whatever dividing line there was between mainstream conservatism and the black-helicopter crowd seems to have been virtually erased”.
“In 1993, the “Harry and Louise” commercials frightened Americans into abandoning health reform. Let’s ensure those scare tactics don’t work this time
.”

The theme is winning elections is not enough.

Palladian said...

It's going to be so much fun reading all the concerned, condemnatory editorials in all the elite and intellectyul newspapers about how Islam inherently leads to violence and murder once some Muslim somewhere kills someone!

Oh...

Maguro said...

So dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism, eh? What a surprise.

Lem said...

It’s intolerant and racist to condemn an entire race of people by the actions of a few but it is wise to condemn an entire political class by the actions of fewer.

Chip Ahoy said...

Everybody sssssh!

The representative of the lollypop guild sings.

OOOOooooohhhh, rrrubbish! You have no powyah heyah.

daredevil_66 said...

I think cheap columns like this are proof Paul is actually a pretty lazy writer. He already had the narrative in his head when he wrote this even though it seems pretty evident the guy was shit house crazy who's mental illness had no party affiliation. Wotta waste of ink.

Hoosier Daddy said...

So now hating O'Reilly and being a 9/11 Truther is a right wing meme?

Allah dammit I hate it when I don't get the memos.

tim maguire said...

Krugman is simply evidence the Nobel Prize committee has determined that its scheme to debase the Peace Prize is complete so that it may now move on to Economics, the the next soft science.

It seems an odd way of dedicating the prize back to only the hard sciences, but who am I to question their methods?

mcg said...

"Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do."
--- James Von Brunn
"Them Jews ain't going to let him talk to me."
--- The Rev. Jeremiah Wright

Elliott A said...

Krugman is on a plane of existence which we cannot either see nor conceive. Unless he is talking about Economics, he is no different than the Hollywood types talking about politics.

traditionalguy said...

This skill of typing every American who does not want a collectivist State to steal all power over their lives as exactly equal to an insane freak can only be seen in the NYT. The Big Lie is still the best tactic when no other speakers are listened to. That is why Palin is such a threat to the Obama Boys. She always gets listened to. Their job for the next two years will be to portray her as a Dumb Female Beauty Contestant with a trashy red neck family and therefore not worthy of having a leadership position. Politics is as hardball as it was in 1828. And today the Democrats totally own the NBC network. Look out for a drumbeat of Palin slander everywhere including on this blog's comments.

Fred4Pres said...

Well given the shooter was flipping a coin from taking out the Weekly Standard (which would probably have been a very soft target indeed and would have probably had a far worse outcome) and the Holocaust Museum, sounds like Krugman is just upset with how the coin toss went.

Crimso said...

"He is a Nobel prize winning economist. As such, he deserves our benefit of the doubt."

About economics, perhaps.

mccullough said...

Krugman is beginning to sound like Noam Chomsky (an MIT professor of linguisitcs).

Given a lot of hateful opinion directed at conservatives in the N.Y. Times and other liberal organs, maybe Krugman should take some responsibility for his rhetoric.

John said...

Contrast the way the media covered this story with how it covered the shooting of the two soldiers at the recruiting station in Arkansas. In Arkansas a Mulsim convert who had trained overseas shot two soldiers in cold blood. The media at first refused to cover it at all. Then when shamed into covering it, covered it from perspective that everyone understood that this guy was a nut, not representative of Muslims and only a lone actor.

In this case it is wall to wall coverage. And the coverage is all about how, despite all the evidence to the contrary, this and the murder in Wichita are part of the huge right wing terror threat.

I think covering these lone wacko type shootings as individual acts and not represented of a trend is the most truthful way to cover them. I therefore do not have a problem with the way the media covered the Arkaansas shootings. But I do have a problem with how they are covering this. And I have a huge problem with the contrast in coverage. They are covering this story big because they think they can smear Republicans with it. It is how a state run media acts. That is all the MSM is these days. And it is getting very creepy.

Fred4Pres said...

And yes, I am saying Paul Krugman would have liked to see the staff of the Weekly Standard get killed. Paul Krugman is that craven.

This is not baseless hyperbole. Most people are partisan one way or the other, and all of us are flawed, but I find most people try to act in good faith (even if they fail quite often or get swept up by emotion occasionally). There are a few people in media and politics, however, who are completely lacking any good faith or empathy whatsoever, political sociopaths if you will. Fortunately they are rare. Paul Krugman is one of them.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Contrast the way the media covered this story with how it covered the shooting of the two soldiers at the recruiting station in Arkansas. In Arkansas a Mulsim convert who had trained overseas shot two soldiers in cold blood..

I brought this up with a co-worker yesterday when she was ranting on how we're so concerned with Muslim terrorists we fail to see the 'right wing' terrorists right here. When I mentioned the Arkansas shooting she didn't know what I was talking about.

But make no mistake, the media isn't biased.

Jim Howard said...

I strongly suspect that we will find that this murder was a hard core Alex Jones fan.

Jones is making a fortune pandering to the black helicopter crowd.

Of course it's also possible the murderer was a member of Reverend Wright's flock, as was our President until recently. Perhaps they know each other.

And John is spot on wrt the difference in coverage between the murders of the Army recruiters and this security guard. A more clear example of blatant media bias could not be found.

goesh said...

- it was the gun, it kept whispering in his ear incessantly - stroke me, pull on me, hold me, carry me, touch me

garage mahal said...

"Hitler was a Democrat."

LOL. Classic.

Palladian said...

"LOL. Classic."

It's called a joke. I'm sure you've heard of them.

LonewackoDotCom said...

I doubt whether JVB was an Alex Jones fan. While some of the things AJ says are definitely out there, he's right about a lot of things.

Anywho, those who want to actually lessen the impact of Krugman or other "topline" Dem talent doing things like this in the future need to go after his downstream, and by name. For an unrelated example of how I do things like that, see this. That has nothing to do with this issue and it's only the latest of hundreds of similar posts I've made. Note that I'm concentrating on the reporter, mentioning his name five times as part of this plan.

garage mahal said...

What's puzzling is why Hot Air, Limbaugh and rest thought the DHS report was talking about them when the report warned of violence from skinheads and right wing terrorists. It never mentioned conservatives once in the report.

Sigivald said...

Krugman seems unable to think clearly when the subject is not an academic discussion of trade, especially international trade (the subject for which he got his Nobel, which economists on all sides of the aisles tell me he deserves).

Namedropping "Nobel-prize-winning" doesn't make him automatically worth listening to on other subjects.

(Take Einstein, for example. Brilliant physicist, great with math. An incredibly sharp mind - in his field.

But completely incompetent on matters of politics, and I don't mean just Party Politics.

And as McCullogh said, take Chomksy. Please!)

Cedarford said...

goesh said...
- it was the gun, it kept whispering in his ear incessantly - stroke me, pull on me, hold me, carry me, touch me.


You left out the part about how the country is terrorized by .22 cal rimfire "assault rifles" that need to be banned...lest they seduce all owners into uncontrolled violence...

But even a peashooter can kill. All guns must be respected as potentially lethal tools.

Curiously, the lowly private security guards at the museum had repeatedly asked Holocaust Museum management up to Director Sarah Bloomfield ---"Given this is a possible terrorist target --can you buy us bulletproof vests?" Which the amply endowed Holocaust Museum with megamillions in private donations as well as Fed dollars, refused to do as a "waste of our donor's money".

The killed guard was shot in the chest by a .22 long rifle bullet - a bullet that a heavy wool overcoat can occasionally stop, let alone a 129.99 bulletproof vest.

Going in with his bolt or pump action .22 childhood rifle, the guy was only able to get 3 shots off working the pump or bolt action? Using a round rarely lethal, with no stopping power if anything but a vital organ is disabled by the round? It tells me this MENSA guy either wasn't serious about killing lots of people in favor of "getting national attention". Or he was operating with seriously reduced mental capacity.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"Hitler was a Democrat."

LOL. Classic.
.

He was also a vegetarian, didn't smoke, didn't drink and loved animals, passed some of the most progressive environmental and animal rights laws at the time.

Hell, if it wasn't for that pesky genocide stuff, old Adolph would fit right in with today's lefties.

Hoosier Daddy said...

What's puzzling is why Hot Air, Limbaugh and rest thought the DHS report was talking about them when the report warned of violence from skinheads and right wing terrorists. It never mentioned conservatives once in the report..

Probably because you and your comrades make no distinction between right wing and conservatives.

O'Reilly is called a right winger by your side yet this guy hated O'Reilly but is referred to as a right wing terrorist.

Let us know when you're done rearranging the goal posts.

rocketeer67 said...

It never mentioned conservatives once in the report.

But of course not, garage. Instead, the report indicated that folks who oppose increasing taxes, are suspicious of big government, and generally trust private over public sector innovation are skinheads and sleeper right-wing terrorists.

garage mahal said...

Jonah Goldberg lives!
"The Totalitarian Temptation from Hegel to Whole Foods"! Err, I mean Liberal Fascism. Great stuff!

chuckR said...

Nobel Peace Prize winners - Henry Kissinger, Le Duc Tho, Jimmy Carter, Yassir Arafat, Al Gore

Nobel Economics Prize winners - Paul Krugman, Robert Merton, Myron Scholes.

The last two guys gave use a new way to value derivatives. It only took ten years to blow up when put into practice.

Please don't drag out the Nobel prizes for either economics or peace. They are misleadingly named and leave me suspicious of the recipient instead of impressed.

traditionalguy said...

The circumstances of the Security Guards shot in DC and the Recruitment Office Soldiers shot in Arkansas are exactly the same when seen from the eyes of the two assailants. Both groups of targets were seen as the protecters of the Jews. Home grown Jew haters and Muslim Jew haters both feel safe now to come out of their closets as the showdown with Israel gets closer. The USA's policies have always been the restraint on these Jew haters' actions, but our President's Cairo speech has given them a green light from the USA. These hotheaded assailants jumped off too soon, but the patient ones are coming behind them.

rocketeer67 said...

Jonah Goldberg's funny, and I'm sure his book is interesting. It's just that I haven't read it since it's obvious to even freshman poli-sci students that Hitler was a man of the left.

He and Stalin didn't hate each other because they were proponents of diametrically opposed ideologies. They hated each other because they were fighting to the death over the same idological piece of the pie.

LonewackoDotCom said...

The issue with the report falls into two general categories. First, unlike other reports, it was overly broad. Second, it needs to be put into context.

Regarding that context, see the notes here discussing how the report centers on "hate-oriented" groups and that the far-left has a rather creative definition of "hate". For instance, one major Soros-funded and BHO-linked group defines Limbaugh as "hate radio".

And, as yet another example of just how great blogs are, the update to that post above notes a "smoking gun" in the report that I don't think any of the blogs picked up on.

That "smoking gun" is elaborated on here; what no one else has told you is that the DHS report was based in part on a misleading report from a far-left group that, among other things, has an indirect link to a foreign government.

Note also that a leading Democrat spoke out against the report.

None of what I've written above will matter much unless those who run websites are able to do their best to understand my previous comment.

Palladian said...

"What's puzzling is why Hot Air, Limbaugh and rest thought the DHS report was talking about them when the report warned of violence from skinheads and right wing terrorists. It never mentioned conservatives once in the report."

No, because Napolitano knew that Krugman and the rest of the so-called "progressive" government boot-lickers would make the connection so they didn't have to. And what happened? A psychopath terrorized the Holocaust museum and immediately the leftist noise machine made the correlation between the looney-tunes murderer and every right-of-Lenin commentator and publication it could think of. You people know what you're doing.

rcocean said...

Per the liberals:

Leftist kills someone = just a lone kook. No one to blame.

Rightist kills someone = conservatives and their "hateful" ideology to blame.

Typical MSM Left-wing double-think. Yawn.

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann talks about "the evidence" and then links to Michelle Malkin?

Gee, do you really think that's all the evidence?

The guy was against gays and gay marriage, anti-immigrant...

Oh, fuck it. This is too deep into right wing derangement. Rational discourse is impossible.

CarmelaMotto said...

traditional guy 12:46 - agree. They are all kooks and not part of some bigger movement.

strange Krugman doesn't mention the Arkansas shooting. guess it doesn't fit in with his theory.

Barbara Ehrenreich used to make the same lame-o assertions as the DHS and the media - go in the Army normal, come out a "right wing" crazed anti-social looney tune terrorist like Timothy McVeigh. This is part for the course and pathetic - and THAT's what "conservative" and the Veterans groups were upset about.

How about Air America and the assasination references to Bush?

garage mahal said...

No, because Napolitano knew that Krugman and the rest of the so-called "progressive" government boot-lickers would make the connection so they didn't have to..

The DHS report was requested by, and prepared by George Bush. Wrong again!

The report on right wing groups, it turns out, was prepared by the Extremism and Radicalization Branch of DHS' Homeland Environment and Threat Analysis Division. That Division falls under the purview of the Under Secretary For Intelligence & Analysis -- or, in this case, the Acting Under Secretary For Intelligence & Analysis Roger Mackin, who was appointed on September 10, 2008 by noted left wing partisan George W. Bush..

Source

Palladian said...

"The guy was against gays and gay marriage, anti-immigrant..."

He also hated Israel and thought that 9/11 was an inside job.

Since we're playing this stupid game of "attach a political ideology to the psychopath" game, that makes him sound more like someone on your side of the aisle.

Palladian said...

Obama is against gay marriage. Does that make him a SOOPER RIGHT WING TERRORISTER??!!?!11

AlphaLiberal said...

This link trots out the killer's opposition to Bill Kristol and neocons as "evidence" of leftism.

Uh, people? Isn't Kristol Jewish? Haven't neocons been making a point that their ranks are heavily Jewish?

Isn't Von Brunn anti-semitic? the simplest explanation is not that Von Brunn is a closet liberal but that he hates Jews and made no exception for Kristol or the neocons.

What a dumb claim. Really, it took me 2 seconds to see through it.

CarmelaMotto said...

How about Ted Kazinski? Was he a typical left wing democrat?

It's all so pathetic.

AlphaLiberal said...

He also hated Israel and thought that 9/11 was an inside job. .

So. what.

And anti-Semite hates Israel. Whoa! That proves -- nothing.

And falsely accusing people of being antisemitic is a vicious smear. How quickly conservatives turn to insults.

Palladian said...

"It's all so pathetic."

It really is. But it's AlphaLiberal and garage mahal we're dealing with here, so pathetic is a certainty.

Pogo said...

Jeebus, garage, except for John Wayne Gacy, I made up the entire list; just doing my Krugman best.





"Judas" and "Hitler" were the tip-offs.

Palladian said...

"And anti-Semite hates Israel. Whoa! That proves -- nothing."

Then neither does the fact that he "hated gays, gay marriage, immigrants" or whatever.

Man, is there a bug in your programming today, Alpha? You're malfunctioning in an especially stupid manner, even for you.

CarmelaMotto said...

From RCP blog responding to Krugman:

"In any case, these semi-persecutory statements have easily been matched on the liberal side. Recall actor Alec Baldwin's 2006 blog post holding that Dick Cheney "terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately." And that was very tame next to Baldwin's televised opinion during the Clinton impeachment proceedings that in another country, "we would stone [Judiciary Committee Chair] Henry Hyde to death, and we would go to their homes and kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families, for what they're doing to this country." Baldwin later apologized."

Is Baldwin a typical Democrat? Should I blame him for the muders in Arkansas?

LonewackoDotCom said...

What "garage mahal" fails to note is the possibility that the report was revised after Bush left office. He also fails to note that, in some ways, Bush was rather leftwing. Namely, he strongly supported illegal activity and he and the rest of his crew had internalized far-left concepts. There was also all that money from those who profit from illegal activity. Smearing those who oppose, for instance, IllegalImmigration would not be a new thing for him.

There's also the fact - unmentioned by anyone else - that the report is based in part on a misleading report from a far-left group. Whoever prepared it, they used a BHO-friendly source for part of it. That same group is currently trying to exploit the shooting.

jayne_cobb said...

Garage,

Yes, it was requested under Bush, but it was rushed out, despite concerns over the ridiculously broad nature of it, under the current administration.

This was further highlighted by a report released shortly thereafter about leftwing groups which actually contained specific concerns.

That it just so happened to coincide with a major protest of Obama's policies only made its appearance even more suspect.

garage mahal said...

Jeebus, garage, except for John Wayne Gacy, I made up the entire list; just doing my Krugman best..

I knew it was in jest, but just seeing it typed was hilarious. I thought it was funny. I disagree almost entirely with everything you post, but you do it with wit and a certain elegance that's refreshing.

garage mahal said...

This was further highlighted by a report released shortly thereafter about leftwing groups which actually contained specific concerns..

Exactly! Lefties didn't freak out and think it was about them I guess was my whole point.

jayne_cobb said...

And my point was that it was far more specific about the leftist groups to be weary of.

It didn't just cite "concern over the environment" or "support for universal health care" as potential reasons for concern. IIRC it actually contained particular groups to look out for.

Jeremy said...

They found Fox News address...and we're to assume he was going to attack Fox News?

It's more logical to assume he was planning on stopping by for autographs.

Anybody who thinks it was the liberals or "leftists" as the local wingnuts like to call them...that pushed this racist, ant-Semitic asshole to do what he did is brain dead.

Does anybody here think he voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry or Obama?

The right wing, anti-government crowd is slowly losing their minds over the Obama win and it's getting worse every day.

Maguro said...

Does anybody here think he voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry or Obama?

Actually, there's a good chance he did vote for Obama. See here.

Palladian said...

Thread's over.

Crimso said...

"Anybody who thinks it was the liberals or "leftists" as the local wingnuts like to call them...that pushed this racist, ant-Semitic asshole to do what he did is brain dead."

Well, to be fair, if we assume he was egged on to do it, and we don't exactly know specifically who did so but distribute the blame for it to all possible inciting entities, then Jeremiah Wright is just one example of a nonwingnut who will certainly have to shoulder at least some of the blame. Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson as well. Farrakhan doesn't exactly have love in his heart for Jews. And these are just the examples that come immediately to mind who are all close associates of our current President.

Pogo said...

Sorry, then, garage.
I misunderstood.

EnigmatiCore said...

So the guy was a RON PAUL fan.

Imagine my surprise.

AlphaLiberal said...

They found Fox News address...and we're to assume he was going to attack Fox News? .

Really? That's the basis for the claim that he was anti-FoxNews?

MadisonMan said...

Well, at least he wasn't likely into Heavy Metal.

Jeremy said...

Here's what the new and improved GOP stands for:

Middle East Forum Director Daniel Pipes said in a speech at the Heritage Foundation that he would vote for Ahmadinejad if he could:

American Enterprise Institute's Michael Rubin told National Review's Kathryn Jean Lopez it might be better for Ahmadinejad to win, because a loss might give Obama the impression that diplomacy was working.

*Yeah, and God knows we wouldn't want any form of diplomacy to stand in the way of what we've se over the past eight years.

AlphaLiberal said...

Palladian...
Then neither does the fact that he "hated gays, gay marriage, immigrants" or whatever. .

You don't grasp simple concepts well:

The simplest explanation is most usually right.

In this case, if someone is anti-Semite, it is no surprise if he hates Israel, or neocons. That's what anti-Semites do! .

But, now, in rightwingoverse that is proof positive the person is a .. liberal??!?!?!?

WTF? Do you guyys even TRY to make sense anymore?

Jeremy said...

Tiny Jones, Come Home said..."Paul Krugman is a good and thoughtful man....He is a Nobel prize winning economist. As such, he deserves our benefit of the doubt."

You're either new to this forum, being sarcastic or just don't understand who you're directing this to.

95% of the people who visit this site on a regular basis could care less what ANYBODY says...unless they already believe it or want it to be so.

The regulars here think this latest attack was based on the man being some kind of liberal or "leftist."

Duh.

Jeremy said...

Palladian - I've often wondered how you type with a sandwich in one hand and your dick in the other.

Are you using your nose?

Jeremy said...

Crimso - This guy has a history of hating blacks, gays, Jews and the government. His ex-wife says he was literally eaten up with the hatred of all things left of center.

Does that really strike you as being the basis of the liberal cause?

Jeremy said...

Maguro - So he thought the Jews created Obama, hated the Jews...but voted for Obama?

And you base this on an insane theory presented via a survey of "four white supremacists and one black nationalist???"

Well, I just called out to six people outside my window and they disagree so that pretty much settles it.

I'm right and you're...ridiculous.

John said...

"In this case, if someone is anti-Semite, it is no surprise if he hates Israel, or neocons. That's what anti-Semites do! ."

But of course lots and lots of people on the left hate neocons, jews and Israel. Given that fact, I don't see how you can say this is a product of what anyone on the Left or Right in particular had to say. He wanted to go shoot up the Weekly Standard. Had he done that, would Daily Kos been responsible.

To the extent that there is a environment where violence against Jews is encouraged, I think that the left with its claims that Israel is committing another Holocaust and that Jews are manipulating our foreign policy, have done a lot to create that environment in the last ten years.

I think everyone left and right ought to look at this crime and perhaps think a little bit the next time they want to talk about Israel as another South Africa or the Palistinians as victims of genocide.

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann Althouse says:

Paul Krugman assumes so. .

FALSE. There is no assumption here, Ann. Paul Krugman provides example after example of conservative leaders using extremist and incendiary language.

THAT is "evidence".

THIS is not evidence supporting any conclusion (from the HotAir link in Ann's post:

They told staffers that they had found the address of the magazine on a piece of paper associated with the shooter, James von Brunn, and asked whether the Standard had received any threats… .

He could have had that address for any number of reasons, including sending in a financial contribution or because he perceives it as "run by Jews."

Ann Althouse's great deductive powers lead her to the wingnut conclusion that this shows he's no righties.

Law enforcement sources told WTTG/MyFoxDC.com that during a search of a car that is believed to belong von Brunn, investigators found a notebook with information about six to nine locations in the D.C. area, including the National Holocaust Museum. Other locations on the list included the U.S. Capitol, the White House, the Washington Post, and a FOX News location. SOURCE = FoxNews(!) .

Again. This doesn't prove jack shit. The addresses could be there because he wanted to pick up a souvenir or something or just be near the people he admires.

That Althouse, (a law professor!, nyuck, nyuck) would call this nonsense "evidence" is alarming for the state of education at UW.

AlphaLiberal said...

But of course lots and lots of people on the left hate neocons, jews and Israel. Given that fact, .

That's not a fact, jackass. That's opinion.

Or maybe you can clarify how you come to be an expert on the thoughts and feelings of people you have such great obvious dislike for.

Just because people criticize Israeli policy, it doesn't mean they hate Jews. Hell, lots of Israelis and Jews criticize Israel's policies! The debate is freer there than here.

Daryl said...

The shooter hates Jews, Israel, Fox News, George W. Bush, John McCain, and believes traditional Christianity is a sham designed to oppress people.

In other words, he's IDENTICAL TO JEREMIAH WRIGHT.

Having an anti-Semite in the White House only encourages these monsters.

AlphaLiberal said...

Really, John, you use dishonest arguments. You accuse all liberals and Democrats of charging Israel with another holocaust.

That's simply false. Really, it's so divorced from reality as to be delusional.

AlphaLiberal said...

Daryl, Obama has key advisers who are Jewish yet you say this:

Having an anti-Semite in the White House only encourages these monsters. .

That may be the dumbest thing ever said on these pages.

Fred4Pres said...

They found Fox News address...and we're to assume he was going to attack Fox News?

Jeremy...Yeah, we can assume that.

"It doesn’t matter that you despise JEWS-NEOCONS-BILL O’REILLY you pay the tax - or else you don’t eat. Hillary, Obama, McCain, Ruppert Murdoch don’t mind paying the Kosher tax, why should you care."
James Von Brunn


Here are some more Von Brunn statements from his web postings:

‘Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.’ Henry Kissinger, quoted by Bob Woodward in The Final Days, 1976

‘The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer. [The New World Order] cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World Order, and it will force the United States to change it’s perceptions.’ — Henry Kissenger, World Affairs Council Press Conference, Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel , April 19th 1994

‘You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.’ — George W. Bush

‘Sarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushs have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched.’ George Bush Sr. 1992

‘Kill the Best Gentiles!’


James Von Brunn

AlphaLiberal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AlphaLiberal said...

Feed4Pres:

So he quoted some people and that means he hates those people and are their opponents?

You know that makes no sense, I hope?

They found Fox News address...and we're to assume he was going to attack Fox News?

Jeremy...Yeah, we can assume that.
.

Again, you're not making your case in the slightest! How do you know he wasn't picking up, say, a baseball cap? Or that he didn't stop off at FoxNews on his way to the Holocaust Museum?

(Honestly, I'm stunned at how ridiculous these "arguments" are!)

Jeremy said...

Department of Homeland Security assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States.

Information from law enforcement and nongovernmental organizations indicates lone wolves and small terrorist cells have shown intent—and, in some cases, the capability—to commit violent acts.

DHS has concluded that white supremacist lone wolves pose the most significant domestic terrorist threat because of their low profile and autonomy—separate from any formalized group—which hampers warning efforts.

Similarly, recent state and municipal law enforcement reporting has warned of the dangers of rightwing extremists embracing the tactics of “leaderless resistance” and of lone wolves carrying out acts of violence.

Jeremy said...

Fred4Pres said...regarding theis idiot's plans to possibly attack Fox News: "Jeremy...Yeah, we can assume that."

Based on what?

And what possible motive would he have?

Is Fox News a haven for Jews or blacks, are they pro-Obama or pro-government?

Ridiculous.

Jeremy said...

Daryl - Are you living with Pogo or Palladian?

Dark Eden said...

"Leftist kills someone = just a lone kook. No one to blame.

Rightist kills someone = conservatives and their "hateful" ideology to blame."

Yes, except for this change:

Leftist kills someone = Call him a Right winger, blame Conservatives anyway.

AlphaLiberal said...

Here, have a laugh.

jeff said...

"(Honestly, I'm stunned at how ridiculous these "arguments" are!)"

No kidding. So you can see how frustrating it has been the last 8 years listening to your side doing it.

As soon as the shots ended the left was blaming the right for the shooting. Now when the right points out some his common viewpoints with the left, you cry out like a stuck pig. Why that's insane! How ridiculous this argument is, you cry.
Well.....Yeah. Jeremy has made a career making the argument that you suddenly have issue with when turned back upon yourself.

For years we have heard him babble about fox news and pro war and pro Bush etc etc etc. Now this guy who hated Bush with a passion, hated the neocons who he blamed for the war might have wanted to shoot up Fox news and Jeremy has a total loss of recall and can't imagine why he might want to do such a thing. Ok, granted...Jeremy is a bad example as continuity and logic has never been his strong point...or any point come to think of it...but others have done the same thing. And just NOW you've noticed how "ridiculous these "arguments" are"?

AlphaLiberal said...

Jeff:

Try harder to make your case, instead of just restating it and taking swipes at people.

Maybe address an actual argument made by Jeremy or I instead of repeating yourself or attacking us.

For example: What's the rationale that Von Brunn wanted to shoot up FoxNews?

Example. You say:

Now when the right points out some his common viewpoints with the left, you cry out like a stuck pig. .

And I respond: No, we directly addressed the allegations that he has anything in common with the left. You cannot address those arguments and, so, pretend they never happened.

Leaves me with the impression that all you can do is repeat the same discredited arguments over and over.

NightBastard said...

I shouted out,
Who killed the Kennedys?
When after all
It was some lefties.

Fred4Pres said...

Von Brunn hated Fox News, Murdoch, Bill O'Reilly, Neo Cons, The Weekly Standard, Bush, Obama, the Federal Reserve...and especially hated Jews and Blacks.

He went into the Holocaust Museum, but he also had an address for the Weekly Standard. Given his past statements and views, I doubt it was so he could stop by and pay his subscription. Was he considering to go shoot up the Weekly Standard? There is enough evidence to say it was a definite possibility. But if Von Brunn lives, he is the type who will tell us if that was his intention.

He also had other addresses, including Fox News. Given his dislike of Fox, Murdoch and O'Reilly, I doubt he was a fan. Was he going to shoot up Fox News? No idea. It is possible, but again, Von Brunn may be able to answer that.

CarmelaMotto said...

Night bastard - that's funny, but true. LHO was a lefty!

holdfast said...

"Uh, people? Isn't Kristol Jewish? Haven't neocons been making a point that their ranks are heavily Jewish?"

Yes,Kristol is Jewish - and it is usually the Neocons' enemies who make a big deal about how many of them are Jewish. Many on the left left - moreso in Europe but also some here in the US - use "Neocon" as a coded anti-Jew slur.

Sorry folks but Jew-hatin' is not a left-right thing - there's plenty of it on both sides, but lately the lefties are more willing to show their ass in public. Usually the polite lefties try to frame it as "Anti-Zionist", but increasingly often even that polite mask slips. Of course, even if you only hate Israel, you can't really like Jews if you want another 4 million of them to die.

Roost on the Moon said...

This is a question that I think really clears this up:

Are neo-nazis and the KKK ideologically right-wing?

I think your answer to that probably determines your reaction to this specific case.

CarmelaMotto said...

Yes, AL, Paul Krugman has used "example after example" and therefore you/Krugman assume that JVB listened to Limbaugh or O'Reilly?

Where is your proof?

Pathetic.

Roost on the Moon said...

Also, whether we call this paranoid anti-government ideology "right wing" isn't really the issue. Krugman's main point is that prominent mainstream Republicans (Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Alan Keyes, and many others) are encouraging some pretty crazy/paranoid beliefs about impending totalitarianism.

You can prattle on all you like about "truthers" but the most prominent one of them was just some professor at a midwestern university. They weren't supported by democrats, they didn't have a popular tv or radio show, and what they were pushing was less crazy then the idea of domestic concentration camps.

So fine, go ahead and call this guy a liberal. That seems like voluntary blindness to me, but go ahead: Krugman's point stands.

Glenn Beck especially seems intentionally designed to whip up a frenzy of unstable morons. Of course I'm not advocating any kind of censorship, but it would be nice to see some prominent conservatives calling Mr Beck out as the irresponsible fool he is.

William said...

I think it's fair enough to say that extremists on both the left and the right are capable of anti-Semitism. It's part of the historical record that Karl Marx was especially virulent in his denunciation of bourgeoise Jews. It was no accident that with only one exception all the accused of Stalin's show trials were Jews. Long before the existence of Israel, the left found many reasons to distrust Jews.....The big difference between left and right wing anti Semitism is that when it comes from the left it is presented as idealism and when it comes from the right it is (properly) presented as bigotry....Both the left and the right are capable of adultery. People on the right who commit adultery feel that they have sinned; people on the left feel that they have struck a blow for sexual liberation. Thus so with anti-Semitism.

Crimso said...

"No, we directly addressed the allegations that he has anything in common with the left."

Do you not consider Bill Ayers "left?"

scinfinity said...

Just because people criticize Israeli policy, it doesn't mean they hate Jews. Hell, lots of Israelis and Jews criticize Israel's policies! The debate is freer there than here.

Yeah, those diabolical Jooos are just shutting down all dissent, aren't they?

Evil bunch, huh?

You seem to resort to Protocols of the Elders of Zion nonsense almost without a second thought.

Odd, huh?

You'll also notice A LOT of people on the Left do that without a problem.

You accuse all liberals and Democrats of charging Israel with another holocaust.

That's simply false. Really, it's so divorced from reality as to be delusional.

Well, I'll say that the opinions expressed are FAR more prevalent on the Left than on the Right.

Department of Homeland Security assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States.

...they also warned against releasing the report, saying it wasn't vetted...but, man, had to beat those Tea Parties, didn't it?

AlphaLiberal said...

Wow, this speaks volumes. By the Bush Administration, who were pretending to defend the American people:

...criminal enforcement of the federal law designed to protect abortion providers and clinics had declined by more than 75 percent over the last eight years. .

If this is not tolerance for political violence by extremists, what is? From the very top of the Republican Party, they permit violence by their own.

Spare us your protests and extrapolated "evidence."

scinfinity said...

Wow, this speaks volumes. By the Bush Administration, who were pretending to defend the American people:

...criminal enforcement of the federal law designed to protect abortion providers and clinics had declined by more than 75 percent over the last eight years. .


We've had, hmm, a single death -- not at the clinic --- in over a decade. We've had, what, 10 incidents at clinics since 2001?

Seems the protection at the clinics isn't terribly needed.

Now, we ALSO had a soldier murdered --- something Obama barely noticed, in spite of being his nominal boss --- and we've had a spate of attacks on military offices for years now.

Synova said...

"What's puzzling is why Hot Air, Limbaugh and rest thought the DHS report was talking about them when the report warned of violence from skinheads and right wing terrorists. It never mentioned conservatives once in the report."

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=11506

Worth reading... funny, too.

somefeller said...

The fact that von Brunn hated Israel and The Weekly Standard isn't inconsistent with him being a right-wing extremist. There's long been a part of the fringe right (emphasis on fringe) that has had anti-Semitic tendencies and that has seen the neoconservatives (the key journals for which are The Weekly Standard and Commentary) as ideological enemies who hijacked the conservative movement. The more mainstream (and I use that term very loosely) versions of these people are called paleoconservatives, and can be found at places like Chronicles magazine or lewrockwell.com, while the more rabid types are the von Brunns of the world.

While the extremist, conspiracy-theory types of the left and right often share some basic personality tics and agree on some issues, there are differences between the two, and von Brunn stands on the right-wing extremist end of that crowd. Responsible conservatives (i.e.: William F. Buckley) shun such people and try to push them away. Irresponsible ones (i.e.: Glenn Beck) embrace them, or at least like to play to their prejudices while maintaining plausible deniability.

Henry said...

Paul Krugman assumes so.

Of course. That's why I stopped reading him.

Such a big brain. So few surprises.

The New York Times headline writers always nail his column to the wall. Once you read the headline, you already know the column.

Henry said...

Having an anti-Semite in the White House only encourages these monsters.

Pat Buchanan is working for Obama? I thought he was done with Nixon.

AlphaLiberal said...

Did ideology drive these murders, attributed to anti-immigration activists against Latinos?

Shawna Forde, the executive director of the Minutemen American Defense, is one of three accused in the shooting deaths of 29-year-old Raul Flores and his daughter, 9-year-old Brisenia Flores, at their home in Arivaca, Ariz., a town 10 miles north of the Mexican border. .

More right-wing killings!

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/407189_activist13.html

jdeeripper said...

Paul Krugman has always been a transparent bigot and a racist. As a smallish Jew from New York he has always feared and hated White Middle America, that land of uncivilized anti-semitic, anti-"progressive" barbarians.

This is where the "Right Wing" Devils, the Republican Monsters of his New York mieskeit nightmares dwell.

So he'll take any example of White right wing violence to confirm his point. Yet he will timidly avoid the issue of black male violence and like all NYTimes columnists he holds up Willie Horton as a Sainted black male victim of right wing fear and hate.

"Did pro-Islamic, left wing, anti Bush administration ideology fuel the Army recruiter shooter?"

"Yes, I did tell the police upon my arrest that this was an act of retaliation, and not a reaction on the soldiers personally," Muhammad said. He called it "a act, for the sake of God, for the sake of Allah, the Lord of all the world, and also a retaliation on U.S. military."

AlphaLiberal said...

Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity on accused shooter's reading list .

This case is from last July when a liberal church was shot up by a FauxNews fan and two people were killed.

Police found right-wing political books, brass knuckles, empty shotgun shell boxes and a handgun in the Powell home of a man who said he attacked a church in order to kill liberals "who are ruining the country," court records show.

Knoxville police Sunday evening searched the Levy Drive home of Jim David Adkisson after he allegedly entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children's musical.
.

AlphaLiberal said...

A good job by Frank Rich in today's NYT:

What is this fury about? In his scant 145 days in office, the new president has not remotely matched the Bush record in deficit creation. Nor has he repealed the right to bear arms or exacerbated the wars he inherited. He has tried more than his predecessor ever did to reach across the aisle. But none of that seems to matter. A sizable minority of Americans is irrationally fearful of the fast-moving generational, cultural and racial turnover Obama embodies — indeed, of the 21st century itself. That minority is now getting angrier in inverse relationship to his popularity with the vast majority of the country. Change can be frightening and traumatic, especially if it’s not change you can believe in.

AlphaLiberal said...

Did Ann Althouse link to this piece by Camille Paglia criticizing the rise of rightist hate speech? Or does she just link to Camille when she's bashing libs?

How have we come to this pass in America where the assassination of top government officials is fodder for snide jokes on national radio? .

The road is paved with posts such as this by Althouse.

Paglia:

I was utterly horrified to hear Dallas-based talk show host Mark Davis, subbing for Rush Limbaugh, laughingly and approvingly read a passage from a Dallas magazine article by CBS sportscaster David Feherty claiming that "any U.S. soldier," given a gun with two bullets and stuck in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, would use both bullets on Pelosi and strangle the other two. .

Now, we're told, broadcast hate speech such as this in AMerica today has no effect. Unlike in so many other countries when it has played a role in whipping up would-be killers.