April 25, 2009

Former CIA director Porter Goss cannot believe the way members of Congress are pretending they don't remember briefings on enhanced interrogation.

It's blatant political posturing — and it has hurt our national security:
They did not vote to stop authorizing CIA funding. And for those who now reveal filed "memorandums for the record" suggesting concern, real concern should have been expressed immediately... and not quietly filed away in case the day came when the political winds shifted. And shifted they have.

... The CIA has been pulled into the center ring before. The result this time will be the same: a hollowed-out service of diminished capabilities. After Sept. 11, the general outcry was, "Why don't we have better overseas capabilities?" I fear that in the years to come this refrain will be heard again: once a threat -- or God forbid, another successful attack -- captures our attention and sends the pendulum swinging back. There is only one person who can shut down this dangerous show: President Obama.

117 comments:

Diamondhead said...

Don't worry, Mr. Goss, President Obama has probably already filed a memorandum for the record expressing deep concern that neutering the CIA may have disastrous results in the future.

AJ Lynch said...

It's so hard to keep one's lies straight. How do our Congress critters pull it off?

daredevil-66 said...

What makes me think the democrats are going to rue the day they went down the path of this witch hunt? Nothing good will come of this. After hamstringing our intelligence crew none of this self flagellation will have made us safer or "more respected" (whatever that means) to the world at large. They'll do what they always do, laugh in their cuff and find another stick to beat us with.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Maybe we should water board them until the confess?

Theo Boehm said...

Gentlemen do not read other gentlemen's mail.

SMGalbraith said...

The President has to pull this out of the political cauldron or the country will be torn apart, the CIA devastated and our attention completely distracted from current problems (yeah, I waterboarded my metaphors; three times too).

Congress simply isn't capable of investigating - imagine the leaks to the press of half-truths.

President Obama will eventually have to issue full pardons, create a commission and investigate it.

The left won't - and not entirely unfairly - let it pass and the right - not entirely unfairly - won't trust the political process to uncover what went wrong.

holdfast said...

The 9/11 Commission essentially whitewashed the gross negligence of the current and former administrations and their limp-wristed responses to AQ. The Bush Admin, to its credit, learned some lessons from the debacle of 9/11 and the Clintonian neutering of the CIA, and took steps to address at least the more glaring deficiencies. The Obama Admin is deliberately reversing the steps taken as a result of those 9/11 lessons, and in the process trashing morale at the CIA. When the next calamity arrives, they will have been in control of both Houses and the White House, and will have none of the excuses that Bush and Clinton had - at that point, I really hope that the decision-makers in the Obama Admin are put up against a wall and shot, as a lesson to all future generations who would sacrifice security in exchange for partisan advantage and score-settling.

Big Mike said...

@daredevil-66, no they won't. Not unless the next attack is on the Capitol building itself, while both houses of Congress are in session.

As Goss says, we've been down this road before. After the next disaster happens we'll see much of what we saw after 9/11/01 -- witch hunt hearings, leaks to tame journalists blaming the Intelligence Community, everything except acceptance of their share of the blame.

William said...

They are all beautiful on the red carpet. They were born beautiful, but they took the effort to hire trainers and to work out three or four hours a day. They have naturally lustrous hair but they pay the money to hire stylists to clip each individual hair in just the right style. They have warm smiles but they take care to turn their face slightly at an angle to firm up the chin while facing the camera. The fact that their beauty is as much a product of money and training as of genes should only make us more respectful of their beauty.....Observing the moral grandeur of liberals is like watching the beauty of celebrities on the red carpet. It has nothing to do with the real world, but the artifice is contrived with such care and delicacy that you cannot help but admire the effort that goes into it. One occasionally wonders how a celebrity in a couture gown takes a crap or how a liberal triages the hard choices, but in their moment of preening they are a wonder to observe.

The Drill SGT said...

By all means, if Congress wants an investigation they should call each other as witnesses and get the FBI to take statements soonest. I look forward to Nancy giving a couple of appropriately cleared FBI guys a detailed statement about what she was told in all those briefings and how she certainly wasn't briefed on waterboarding.

The FBI hates getting lied to :)

SMGalbraith said...

The 9/11 Commission essentially whitewashed the gross negligence of the current and former administrations and their limp-wristed responses to AQ
Imagine what Congress would have done with the matter?

We don't have very man appealing options here.

Leahy and Levin and a number of other very partisan chairman want to use this for advantage.

If the President loses control of this it risks engendering his entire agenda.

Okay, and the guy in the back will ask: What's the downside?

LarsPorsena said...

The Church Committee redux

Palladian said...

"Okay, and the guy in the back will ask: What's the downside?"

If we didn't have to rely on them for our security, it would be wonderful watching Washington D.C. tie itself into knots and crumble into pieces.

SMGalbraith said...

If the President loses control of this it risks engendering his entire agenda.
Endangering too dummy.

Engendering? Need more coffee.

Lem said...

I found a computer in my fathers house, so I must be brief.

I remember Alhouse mentioning something about the continuity of government in one of her bloggingheads.

This principle is being conveniently tossed overboard for the purposes of impeaching the good faith efforts of good honest people.

hey - overboard, waterboard... not bad ;)

Peter V. Bella said...

Congress critters suffer from severe cases of CRS.

The can't remember shit. This is how they keep lying to the pubic.

John Lynch said...

If we don't get hit again this will be seen as principled cleaning up after the Bush administration's unconstitutional excesses. If we do, then it will be seen as disastrous meddling with our national security.

Reality will determine who wins the debate. Since no one really knows how capable the enemy is (depending on who you ask), a lot of our response is guesswork. That's the breaks. People pick a side that they agree with, find some evidence to back it up, and go from there.

We shouldn't let leaders have it both ways, and we should hold them responsible for past decisions. If they have a genuine change of heart based on changed circumstances that's one thing, but simple opportunism should be clear to everyone. Opportunists can be good leaders, but generally they are just following the herd rather than leading it.

traditionalguy said...

Why is Porter Goss not stating the obvious question raised by the Obama/Pelossi team's desire for People's Trials to destroy all the good the men/women, like the CIA operatives, whom they seem to blame for keeping them out of the vaults containing Trillions of dollars of fiat money so long? Are Obama and Pelossi just mentally ill, or are they Traitors serving foreign powers for cash?

SMGalbraith said...

Nice opening argument/overview by Stuart Taylor here: Link.

Nut grafs:
[T]here is a body of evidence suggesting that brutal interrogation methods may indeed have saved lives, perhaps a great many lives -- and that renouncing those methods may someday end up costing many, many more.
And:
[The President] should commission an expert review of what interrogators learned from the high-value detainees both before and after using brutal methods and whether those methods appear to have saved lives. He should also foster a better-informed public debate by declassifying as much of the relevant evidence as possible, as former Vice President Cheney and other Republicans have urged.

john said...

"The writer, a Republican, was director of the CIA..."

Well then, the Post certainly knows how to put this in perspective for it's readers, and diminish, if not eliminate, the seriousness of Goss' charges.

It's just a Republican folks, we know we shouldn't print their rants, but we do so that their bitterness and their hatred of our new president and our congressional majority may be thus exposed.

Paul said...

"Are Obama and Pelossi just mentally ill, or are they Traitors serving foreign powers for cash?"

They are traitors serving no one but themselves but willing to say anything, do anything, sell out anybody, or get in bed with anybody for the sole purpose of grasping for power. The money is never the issue with these people, though it's a nice perk that naturally comes with power.

They are mentally ill in the sense that they are narcissists and sociopaths.

O has his sights on ruling the planet. He's planning to use the USA as a stepping stone and will trash it in the process. Gleefully.

m00se said...

Well, the good thing for Obama is that if he does this right, the true effects of gutting the intelligence community (once again) will only show up when the next administration comes to power.

This is an old, old dance. He'll use this, feeding info to the base as needed to take the people's minds off of the more onerous laws he'll pass.

In the end, he'll write a memoir telling of the internal struggle and how he had wished he had done more.

TMink said...

AJ asked: "It's so hard to keep one's lies straight. How do our Congress critters pull it off?"

They have a staff.

Not enough people care.

Where is it reported?

Trey - who is feeling a bit depressed

Greg Toombs said...

Hey! Let's all join the CIA.

We'll get to see the world, read all the papers while they still last. We'll write memos. Look at maps. Guess a lot. (Mostly wrong, but there's nothing new about that.)

Just another useless federal government agancy/parasite with no expectation of producing anything except more Democrat union voters.

Where do I sign up?

daredevil-66 said...

I keep hoping for an epiphany on obama's part like Alec Guiness in the "Bridge over River Kwai" This recrimenation helps no one but our enemies. If this was a sincere attempt to remedy excess in our intelligence operations it could be done discreetly in closed hearing like adults of old used to do. There is still time to put a hold to this circus before it completely consumes us. Is obama strong enough?

SMGalbraith said...

Imagine America run by a David Duke like figure who sends American soldiers - in disguise - to kill a bunch of, let's say, Swedes (hey, it's Duke, it doesn't have to make sense).

They slaughter a bunch of innocent men, women and children and plan to conduct more killings.

Three of the them are captured by the Swedish intelligence who then rough them up to prevent - they believe - another attack. Beatings, sleep deprivation, waterboarding.

Does anyone here fault the Swedes for their actions?

I'll wager there isn't a single person who would complain.

Not a one.

MadisonMan said...

Wouldn't it be nice if there was an actual functioning press that could ask members of Congress questions that highlight their two-facedness so all of America can see it?

I envisage Nancy Pelosi with a Mike Wallace interview of the kind from the mid-70s. No amount of dress shields could keep her dry.

Oh well.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Nancy will blame the Botox. What else can she do?

I am sure a lot of people are busy at work trying to come up with a new urgent crisis to take the pressure off themselves.

Hapi said...

hello... hapi blogging... have a nice day! just visiting here....

bearbee said...

assholes

The Drill SGT said...

MadisonMan said...
Wouldn't it be nice if there was an actual functioning press that could ask members of Congress questions that highlight their two-facedness so all of America can see it?
The problem is that they lie to the press all the time. They are mutual enablers. One side asks easy questions and doesnt check the answers. The other side gives great quotes suitable for 60 second network stories.

The FBI on the other hand, always works in pairs, takes good notes, checks facts, re-interviews, and won't tolerate a lie.

Cedarford said...

Goss - And for those who now reveal filed "memorandums for the record" suggesting concern, real concern should have been expressed immediately... and not quietly filed away in case the day came when the political winds shifted. And shifted they have..


A direct slam at Jane Harman, who was amongst the loudest screamers that we should do everything to protect Americans and "Our Special Friend", including just nodding her head vigorously as she had "intensified interrogation steps" explained to her - then filed a CYA memo to state "for the record" she had NOT formally assented to 'actual torture'.

Nice that the conniving bitch was caught a few years after that on a wiretap with a spy from her "Special Friend" discussing how she could subvert justice in return for the immense Israeli clout in DC to help in getting her Chair of the Intelligence Committee. To make matters even better, her main strategy was to evidently help two dual citizen Israeli-Americans caught spying by getting the Israeli spy to get wealthy Jews to hammer Pelosi to put Harman in the office she wanted..

Like Harman, Pelosi is lying her ass off.

She was at those meetings nodding her head up and down like a botoxed bobble doll.

What she is doing is posturing for her Leftist pals while likely doing everything she can behind the scenes with her inner circle to quash any release of reports of the meetings on interrogating terrorists she attended.

Penny said...

The Democrats will do ANYTHING to keep the topic about what George W. did instead of what Barrack Obama is doing, and frankly, the Republicans are allowing this to happen by not creating and then hammering home their own talking points about the economy, runaway spending, long term debt and a bigger government footprint.

On HuffPo's front page today, there are 14 featured blogs and news stories relating to torture, and 4 about the economy which is the number one concern of America's people.

lacegrl130 said...

I am terribly troubled by this Torture Memo stuff. I hate that I now have to loath Obama. I was trying so hard to have an open mind.

I am terribly bummed.

BJM said...

This is a sop to the netroots and far left. They are being tossed a partially gnawed bone.

I seriously doubt Obama will waste the opportunity presented by the recession and/or expend political capital pursuing the Bush administration as it does not serve his vision of where he wants to take the country.

Obama and his inner circle understand that show trials/hearings would consume his administration, ala Clinton. He has only an assured two year window to enact the keystones of his agenda.

Of course now that the game is afoot it will take on a life of its own, travelling down unseen paths, ensnaring innocent and guilty alike while consuming media oxygen. A full blown Washington scandal will make journo careers, sell papers and airtime ad minutes, just what the media needs to staunch the flow of red ink.

If the left thought about it for a nano second they would pursue Bush after Obama passes his agenda and we've withdrawn from Iraq. However they're so addicted to the endorphin flush of anti-Bush rhetoric and winger hatred that they risk everything to obtain the most fabulous object in the world.

Good luck with that.

AJ Lynch said...

For your historians out there, when was the last time we were all on the same team?

You know - We Americans vs. the enemy.

I say we should vote all incumbents out of office and let's start over.

Let me pretend I am Perez Hilton and say "this dumb ugly rich selfish lying bitch Nancy Pelosi gets the boot first". Heh.

BJM said...

@ElcubanitoKC 2:51 - the next financial shoe is about to drop: commercial real estate.


@AJ, I wish, but we've never been on the same team. An united patriotic America is a myth created by Hollywood and it lingers on as a national memory, but is not based in fact or history.

There has always been an opposition and push back to American involvement in wars, treaties and political philosophies. It's just more in our faces nowadays thanks in part to this medium.

Seven Machos said...

It's weird to me that so many conservatives want to protect the CIA. It's an overly political organization with an agenda, people -- an agenda that for whatever reasons has been squarely against conservatives for years before and after 9/11.

Fuck the CIA. Let it be consumed. As for Bush and his lawyers, none of them is going to jail. There really would be a civil war first.

Eric said...

For your historians out there, when was the last time we were all on the same team? Not since I've been around. Korea?

AJ Lynch said...

BJM:

You are probably right about us never being one team unless in a big war.

I agree with you thate more economic shoes are going to drop. Commercial real estate is the latest and I am very disappointed that the enormous stimulus was so poorly devised it could not even save GM.

WTF is wrong with the DEMS- they even f'ed up the auto portion of the stimulus so it has had almost no positive effect on one of our biggest industries!

Seven Machos said...

No one was on the same page during Korea. Truman had very little support for it, and the opposition was splintered into several varieties. There were the communists. The anti-communists. The anti-anti-communists. The South was its own paradigm. Class was much more pronounced.

In 50 years, this era will be remembered as some period when everybody agreed, too. Just wait.

AJ Lynch said...

OT but I had a nice long bike ride today and it was almost 85 degrees so now I am drinking beer from those aluminum bottles you get at a ball game. You know to replenish my fluids.

I bought a case to watch the boring as watching paint dry snoozefest they call the NFL draft - it pays to plan ahead- I think the beer tastes better !

rhhardin said...

The difference today is that the remaining media audience is very restricted to soap opera interests.

Nothing else has legs in public debate.

The former media audience is online or went to talk radio.

It would not be so, if city council meetings were interesting. Then a marketable audience would want hard news. But they do not.

AJ Lynch said...

Have I told you lately the NY Giants did not even make it to the last Super Bowl?

Trooper York said...

Cole Hammels is a pussy.

Trooper York said...

And Cole Hamels is an even bigger pussy.

Just with one less m.

AJ Lynch said...

You are like a shark. I just have to throw some chum in the water and you are there. Heh.

John Stodder said...

Will no one defend the Speaker?

She wrote the stimulus bill that is saving or creating or can't be blamed for destroying 3 million jobs.

She is the First! Woman! Speaker! Ever!

She's got a planet to save.

Does no one have a word to offer in her defense? Because, unchallenged, Goss' op-ed accuses her of a pretty big lie.

I expect to see her on the cover of Newsweek with a big target on her face.

Oh, well, I guess I really don't expect that. But if they cover this story, what's going to be the spin that saves her reputation?

AJ Lynch said...

It's just Astroturf Mr. Stodder. Nothing to see there says the historical Madame Speaker.

John Stodder said...

Lynch, I guess you're right. These stories about Pelosi and Democrats endorsing waterboarding are only believed by corporate-backed fake people and Faux News.

Chip Ahoy said...

Where posturing means lying through their teeth then emphasizing the lie and repeating what it is they want you to understand. Yes, posturing.

Alex said...

Dammit! Where are all of our usual trolls to tell us how wrong Porter Goss is!

Trooper York said...

That was dumb luck AJ. I just got on the net now.

Which doesn't excuse the fact that Cole Hamels is a wet gaping pussy.

AJ Lynch said...

John:

Isn't it funny how people would rather gouge their own eyes out first, have never watched Fox News but they still call it Faux News?

It's group liberal think. All liberals agree Fox News is evil so they won't watch it. And there is universal compliance. Their parents (most of whom are now dead) must be asking "I wish I could have gotten them to listen to me back in 1960's or 1970's"

AJ Lynch said...

Come on Trooper - you have a 6th sense like a bat. The NY Giants get mentioned and somehow you hear it.

Cole Hamels is the man in Philly until you hear him speak. He sounds a bit like Michael Jackson.

The Drill SGT said...

AJ Lynch said...
For your historians out there, when was the last time we were all on the same team?
July 1941 when FDR sent Wendell Wilkie, his 1940 GOP opponent out as his personal representative.

Dec 8, 1941, we were also pretty tight.

AJ Lynch said...

Sgt:

Where did FDR send Wilkie? Did he go to one of the UN type confabs?

It sounds like a good precedent.

AJ Lynch said...

OT again but is Bill Clinton considered a high risk to get the swine flu?

Peter V. Bella said...

"an agenda that for whatever reasons has been squarely against conservatives for years before and after 9/11."

There was a saying some years back; if you want to find the most registered Democrats in the DC area just go to the CIA.

The Drill SGT said...

AJ,wiki Wilkie:

On July 23, 1941, he urged unlimited aid to the United Kingdom in its struggle against Nazi Germany. That same year he traveled to Britain and the Middle East as Roosevelt's personal representative, and in 1942 visited the USSR and China in the same capacity. In 1943, Willkie wrote One World, a plea for international peacekeeping after the war. Extremely popular, millions of copies of the book sold. In 1941, Willkie helped to establish Freedom House together with Eleanor Roosevelt.

Willkie spoke often of the need to end racism in America, and addressed a convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in 1942, one of the most prominent whites ever to do so at the time. When a violent race riot broke out in Detroit on June 20, 1943, Willkie went on national radio to criticize Republicans and Democrats for ignoring "the Negro question." To illustrate the similarity between racism and Fascism, he said, "The desire to deprive some of our citizens of their rights—economic, civic or political—has the same basic motivation as actuates the Fascist mind when it seeks to dominate whole peoples and nations. It is essential that we eliminate it at home as well as abroad." During this time, Willkie also worked with Walter White, executive secretary of the NAACP, to try to convince Hollywood to change its portrayal of blacks in the movies.

yashu said...

William, beautiful analogy. (I always take pleasure in your comments.)

AJ Lynch said...

Thanks Sgt. Very interesting stuff.

yashu said...

Addendum, re William's analogy (1:20PM). It seems to me, however, that of late-- or for a long while now-- those efforts of liberal moral preening have lost their sense of illusory 'naturalness'... and are much more reminiscent of the grotesque grimaces of Hollywood's extreme plastic surgery.

J Riordan said...

It seems that this whole issue has descended into political farce. If the torture was illegal, then why not prosecute the law-breakers? We do, after all, still have the rule of law in America, don't we?

The argument that most of you are putting forth here is this: If the acts were illegal, then they should be overlooked because of the "good intentions" of providing for national security that were behind them.

Is that the conservative argument now? That the law doesn't apply because of the after-the-fact interpretation of the mindset of the accused?

You guys certainly ran with the literal interpretation of the law during that whole Clinton impeachment thing (and not without good reason). What's changed in your view of the law now?

SMGalbraith said...

If the acts were illegal, then they should be overlooked because of the "good intentions" of providing for national security that were behind them.There's a difference between pushing an old woman down who was trying to cross the street to prevent her from getting hit by a truck versus pushing her down out of malice and ill motives.

Intent is always critical in judging an act. Isn't it?

Revenant said...

If the acts were illegal, then they should be overlooked because of the "good intentions" of providing for national security that were behind them. Is that the conservative argument now?

Actually it is a pretty common position among the "don't use torture" crowd, too. A standard response to "what if we HAVE to use torture to save many innocent lives" -- the "ticking bomb" scenario -- is "in that case we just shouldn't prosecute, but it shouldn't be legal".

Only a tiny percentage of people actually say "when faced with a choice between using torture and letting thousands die, let the thousands die".

That the law doesn't apply because of the after-the-fact interpretation of the mindset of the accused?

You act as if considering the motives of the accused was a new thing. In reality, of course, prosecutors have been doing that for at least a few thousand years or so.

You guys certainly ran with the literal interpretation of the law during that whole Clinton impeachment thing (and not without good reason). What's changed in your view of the law now?

Um, because saving American lives is a good reason to commit a felony, and wanting your cock sucked isn't. Any other dumb questions?

Penny said...

"For your historians out there, when was the last time we were all on the same team?"

9/11/01

"In 50 years, this era will be remembered as some period when everybody agreed, too. Just wait."

Ah, yes...revisionist history.

We are watching it occur in less than eight years here.

Also note that our President isn't participating. He simply allows his minions free reign.

Very clever actually. Smart leaders use their power as little as possible provided that those being led are heading in the preferred direction.

Revenant said...

It's an overly political organization with an agenda, people -- an agenda that for whatever reasons has been squarely against conservatives for years before and after 9/11. Fuck the CIA. Let it be consumed.

Yes, let's destroy our primary intelligence organization while in the middle of an international war against terrorists. Some might argue that it would be more intelligent to refrain from punishing the very agents who have produced some of the best intelligence of the war -- that it might be better to reform the parts of the agency that don't work instead of chopping off the parts that do.

But those people have obviously forgotten that the really important goal here is to avenge perceived slights against conservative interests. Doing what's best to win the war was only important while Republicans were running things. Now that a Democrat's in charge, stabbing the country in the back is hip again.

mcg said...

Intent is always critical in judging an act. Isn't it?

Damn straight. I can't believe the whole "this just makes us no better than them" argument gets any serious traction. For goodness' sake, shooting someone in self-defense doesn't mean you're "no better" than a murderer.

J Riordan said...

@Revenant: In reality, of course, prosecutors have been doing that for at least a few thousand years or so.Yeah, but that's exactly what you are arguing should NOT happen here. An investigation would allow the prosecutor to decide if the law were broken in a way that could be brought to court in light of all the circumstances. Then, of course, it would have to go before the court too.

But you want to preempt that process by having the public mob declare that the guys who did this are "good folks" who shouldn't be subject to the same law that everyone else is.

Maguro said...

J Riordan - What U.S. law could conceivably have been broken when the CIA slapped Khalid Sheik Mohammed around in a hotel room in Thailand?

- said...

Has the CIA budget ever been reduced?? It's Obama's CIA now though, so everything they do now is direct policy from him, i.e. limited "coercive interrogation" until the next Republican administration.

Peter V. Bella said...

This is nothing but a bone thrown to lawyers. Someone figured out that a lot of laywers can make a great deal of money defending all the accused when they go before the poliburo and if they are eventually indicted.

it is all about the lawyers and all about the money. Kaching!!!!!

hdhouse said...

Of course it never occured to anyone on this board that Goss may have an agenda...and of course no one here remembers Obama just last week announcing, along with his AG, that there would be no prosecutions of those who carried out orders...

Don't be afraid of justice going after Bush and Cheney and the knuckleheads that got this mess rolling....it will do us good in the long run....of course in the short term it will tear the GOP apart for a couple decades...

ya'betcha.

ElcubanitoKC said...

hdhouse, why should we assume a CIA person has an agenda? They surely didn't have one during the Bush years. Did they?

And apparently, you didn't listen to the news this past week. Click here, and update yourself.

daredevil-66 said...

I find it interesting last sunday Rahm "Knuckles" Emmanuel was trying to swat down the idea of prosecuting bush era officials over so-called torture. Holder then says he will follow the trail where ever it will lead two days later. Obama votes "present" and says its up to his AG as if he had no power in the matter. What is the probability they will send knuckles emmanuel out again this sunday to "clarify" the policy again?

JAL said...

I'm traveling and doing fun stuff with daughhter #2 so I have been out of the loop for about 36 hours.

Holy cow.

I can not wait until 2010.

Pay back can be [do a strike out on that] will be a ____

JAL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MayBee said...

How can any of you even think about the interrogations anymore, with the terrible terrible swine flu knocking down our door?

Surely you realize this isn't just any flu, it is a specific flu. And you should be terrified, because unlike other flues, a few people have died.

Concentrate on the flu, people. Everyone is insisting you do.

Revenant said...

But you want to preempt that process by having the public mob declare that the guys who did this are "good folks" who shouldn't be subject to the same law that everyone else is.

The CIA interrogations HAVE been investigated. Where have you been?

As for the notion that "everybody else" is subjected to this law -- can you name an American who has been prosecuted for torturing Muslim terrorists? Just curious.

Revenant said...

Of course it never occured to anyone on this board that Goss may have an agenda.

Of course he has an agenda. But the fact that Pelosi, et al were well aware of what the CIA was doing has been known for years, confirmed by multiple sources in and out of government and by members of both parties.

So while he may have an agenda, he is clearly telling the truth here.

Eric said...

But the fact that Pelosi, et al were well aware of what the CIA was doing has been known for years, confirmed by multiple sources in and out of government and by members of both parties.

Don't bring facts into this. The great thing about being part of the reality-based community, apparently, is you get your own personal reality in which facts don't matter.

bearbee said...

But the fact that Pelosi, et al were well aware of what the CIA was doing has been known for years...Ya mean to say that members of the Senate Foreign Affairs committee, then Senators Biden and Obama, **gasp** knew??!!!!

hdhouse said...

There is no "fact" regarding any of this as all the debriefings were confidential and disclosure was punishable.

This is the same Porter Goss who's tenure as head of the CIA was 7 months? SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS???

NOT AT THE TIME IN QUESTION. NOT.

check your shit out before you post.

Peter V. Bella said...

Of course in never occured to anyone on this board that house may have an agenda.

Ya' betcha.

Peter V. Bella said...

If the weather is nice in the DC area today, the grills will be firing up all over suburbia. Fat cat lawyers will be rubbing their hands together, bumping chests and fists, and high fiving each other. Over beers and steaks, they will map out their agenda to defend all the new clients they will have.

The billings will be astronomical. The ABA and the lawyers themselves will be writing checks to the Deomcrat party along with the thank you cards.

This is nothing more than a government bailout for the lawyers. They have not had it this good since the Clinton administration. It is all about the lawyers and the kachingos.

Torture, morals, ethics? Bosh. It is money. Big money. That is the only agenda.

hdhouse said...

Peter V. Bella said...
Of course in never occured to anyone on this board that house may have an agenda."

darn right I do Peter..it's the truth. That's my agenda. What's yours cause it clearly isn't mine.

Eric said...

House, that's a pretty funny thing to say as you scurry from the truth like a cockroach from a bright light.

hdhouse said...

Eric

For instance? Saying isn't
"is".

SMGalbraith said...

FWIW, Goss was head of the CIA for 20 months (Sept 2004 to May 2006), worked for Army intelligence and the CIA, and was head of the House Intelligence Committee from 1997-2004 (source).

He may be making stuff up. But his background at least warrants some attention.

Shorter me: Pelosi is lying.

daredevil-66 said...

Its sad watching Pelosi lie like a teenager busted for not taking out the trash. This is so needless, so sad and pathetic. Who can blame her though? She got away with the "Bush lied us into war by lying about WMD" meme pretty well. Its not like the press is going to nail her on it this time either.

Revenant said...

SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS???

How does "late '04 to mid '06" get you "seven fucking months"?

NOT AT THE TIME IN QUESTION. NOT.

Had you bothered to read the article, you would have noticed he was talking about his tenure as chairman of the intelligence committee, not his time at the CIA. Knowing that could have spared you the embarrassment of throwing that little temper tantrum of yours.

check your shit out before you post.

An amusing coda, considering the rest of your post. :)

daredevil-66 said...

aren't liberals adorable when their self rightious anger gets the better of them?

Jeremy said...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/195089

Jeremy said...

daredevil-66 said..."Its sad watching Pelosi lie like a teenager busted for not taking out the trash."

As if Goss MUST be telling the truth?

The Bush administration was built on lies, and Goss was and is nothing more than a right wing political hack.

That's one of the prime reasons the Republicans lost the elections, constantly lying to cover up their mistakes.

It's also why the latest Pew Research Polling says that only 24% of Americana identify themselves as Republicans...down 10 points since Obama was elected.

Cherry picking your sources won't change the truth of the matter...and I've not read a single article or objective piece that says Pelosi is lying about anything.

Right wing drivel...as usual.

Eric said...

For instance? Saying isn't
"is"
.

Well, it's hard to square the "memorandums of record" with "nobody told me". Once a politician goes with the "I don't remember" defense you know they've been caught lying.

Seriously, now, do you find it at all credible the Democrats didn't know there was waterboarding going on?

daredevil-66 said...

hopefully they will release even more meeting notes and details of who asked what when so we can see the dems squirm. I don't think they ever dreamed Cheney was going to call "shenanigans" on their witchhunt. only the koolaid drinking dems are stupid enough to get into a match fight while sitting in a pool full of gasoline.

Revenant said...

Once a politician goes with the "I don't remember" defense you know they've been caught lying.

Oh, sometimes they honestly forget. But it is impossible to reconcile a position of "I don't remember the CIA telling us about waterboarding" with a position of "waterboarding is horrific torture, and I am shocked, SHOCKED that the Bush administration was using it". Horrifying news is memorable! For example, if someone asked you "did your friend Tom ever tell you he murdered prostitutes" you would clearly answer "yes" or "no". You would never say "I don't remember" -- because who would forget something like that?

"I don't remember" is usually political-speak for "I want to deny it but I know there's a smoking gun out there somewhere".

Jeremy said...

daredevil-66 said..."hopefully they will release even more meeting notes and details of who asked what when so we can see the dems squirm."

And that's exactly what the Democrats want: RELEASE EVERYTHING.

Then we can all know who's telling the truth and who's not.

It's easy to talk the talk, but let's see what happens when EVERYTHING IS RELEASED.

You're basing all of your bullshit on nothing but speculation and comments from those who were right in the middle of the entire affair.

Jeremy said...

Here's the asshole you're hanging your hats on:

Congressman and former CIA agent, Porter Goss briefly replaced George Tenet as CIA Director in September 2004, only to resign himself in May 2006.

Formerly the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Goss is an ardent Republican with strong loyalty to President Bush and a proven willingness to take orders.

After receiving a phone call from the White House in October 2002, Goss publicly declared his opposition to the creation of an independent 9-11 Commission.

A year later, he declined to open committee hearings into the Valerie Plame leak, saying: "Somebody sends me a blue dress and some DNA, I'll have an investigation."

1. Opposed the 9/11 Commission
2. Declined to open committee hearing on the Valerie Plame leak

A lying piece of shit.

Dale said...

And that's exactly what the Democrats want: RELEASE EVERYTHING.Really? Do you really mean "Democrats", Jeremy? The Democrats who are leading this country right now?

WOW! That would be a turnaround from anything that Democrats have ever done before.

Because the latest hearings in the House Energy and Commerce Committee on climate change don't hold up on the Democrats wanting to "air" everything. Seems they don't want to review the science that conflicts with their pre-established views.

You are implying that the Democrats are truth seekers. This would be the very first time, Jeremy. Which makes it pretty hard to believe.

daredevil-66 said...

its not fun to pick on the mentally ill but jeremy's rants about everything being released was worthy of a gaffaw. Obama's group is now hemming and hawing about realeasing the memos proving how valuable the whole interregation program was. They never expected Darth Cheney to rattle off the relevant memos for all to hear. They wanted a one sided torture crusade, but instead have painted themselves into a corner. Once we see what was gained people will wonder what all the hand wringings about. And they'll damn well blame the dems should we ever get hit again. We'll have to ask "Would waterboarding prevented this?" and dumbasses like jeremy will quickly change the subject to some other lib talking point i'm sure.

Jeremy said...

Dale said..."WOW! That would be a turnaround from anything that Democrats have ever done before."

Really?

Based on WHAT?

The Bush administration gave a new name to lying and hiding behind every imaginable roadblock they could conjure up...Executive Privilege...Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Miner, Libby, etc.

It will be interesting to see just who was behind this mess...and you can bet your right wing assholes it won't be the Democrats.

Bush ran the show for 8 years, along with a Republican majority for 6 of them.

Just hide and watch...this is going to be fun...and I hope some of these fools do time.

Jeremy said...

daredevil-66 - It's apparent you don't do much reading, and I could recommend any number of great books, written by people from the left and right, that would educate you on the background and complete mess the Bush administration created from day one...but...

...we both know you don't read...and you don't care.

The standard silliness about how people who disagree are somehow "mentally ill" is just that silly.

I'll bet you didn't even vote.

daredevil-66 said...

why so angry jeremy? if its as open and closed as you say and it will all come out in the wash why lose your cool? Thanks for asking though, I do plenty of reading and know a left wing troll when I see one. Such language!

Jeremy said...

Darely Literate: "They never expected Darth Cheney to rattle off the relevant memos for all to hear."

Oh, by the way, if you did actually read, you'd know that the CIA says Cheney never requested anything relating to the memos he keeps harping about.

4/22/09
The Obama administration denied Tuesday that former Vice President Dick Cheney had directly asked the CIA to declassify memos that he claims would vindicate Bush-era techniques for harsh interrogation of suspected terrorists.

A senior U.S. intelligence offical e-mailed: "The Agency has received no such request from the former Vice President.”

Is the CIA lying, too.

Jeremy said...

Darely Literate - "why so angry jeremy?"

I'm angry about the 4,278 dead Americans soldiers and the 31,215 wounded.

Their families would also like to know exactly how we got ourselves in this fiasco and why, to this day, Cheney and others continues to say the Iraqis had something to do with 9/11.

As an American (and I only assume you are), I would think you would also like to know.

Then again, you come across as just another right wing fool who just can't get over the fact that Obama won the election.

You're probably a racist, too.

daredevil-66 said...

let me let you in on a little secret no one cares about you or your little dog too. I know plenty of guys in both theatres and believe me they have nothing but complete comtempt for you and people like you. You won't get your precious show trial because the pussies you vote for know damn well they approved what went on. They are only showboating for dupes like you. Believe me there will always be some lame democratic excuse for "putting this behind us". Why am I so sure? Like always, they don't want to take responsibility for anything, even with all the branches of govt. at their disposal. You can bank on it, turd.

section9 said...

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, Jeremy, who the fuck let you out of the Tent Revival?

Did Elmer just lose his fucking Gantry or something?

God, I hate self-righteous, preening pricks. "Everyone's going to fucking jail, bwahahahahaha!!!" And he went right to the "racist" canard, too. Right out of the fucking box. Like Rush Limbaugh killed his cat or something.

I bet when he's at parties, everyone leaves Jeremy alone when he starts in on what a genius Chomsky is.

Jeremy said...

section9 - Suck my dick, you little piss ant.

Why would I care what you or the other chickenhawk asshole think about me or anything for that matter?

All both of you and others do is parrot the same shit we've been hearing for eight years, the precise reason Obama kicked ass, as did many of the Democrats who ran many of your fellow wingnuts out of office.

Is is some kind of mystery to you that only 24% of America now considers themselves to Republicans?

Is it a mystery to you that Obama carries a 60%+ approval rating?

is it a mystery to you that the Republican Party is now led by the likes of Rush Limabaugh, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Newt and other crazos?

And when I mention the dead and wounded, you conveniently disregard it, as if it means nothing to you. It's all partisan politics for you.

I suggest you and other start reading more and talking less because you sound just like the fools who were running the show for the past eight years.

And Americans know where that's gotten us.

Fuck off...and take Darely Literate with you.

daredevil-66 said...

Jesus loves you Jeremy. :-)

Jeremy said...

Darely Literate - I notice you never responded to this:

4/22/09
The Obama administration denied Tuesday that former Vice President Dick Cheney had directly asked the CIA to declassify memos that he claims would vindicate Bush-era techniques for harsh interrogation of suspected terrorists.

A senior U.S. intelligence offical e-mailed: "The Agency has received no such request from the former Vice President.”

Talk is cheap, asshole.

Jeremy said...

Darely Literate - I'm an Atheist.

Lay that bullshit on somebody who cares.

I'm beginning to believe you're even dumber than first thought...and that takes some doing.

daredevil-66 said...

http://www.curezone.com/forums/troll.asp

Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators.

Dale said...

Oh, by the way, if you did actually read, you'd know that the CIA says Cheney never requested anything relating to the memos he keeps harping about.Listen close, Jeremy:

Even before Mr. Obama released secret memorandums on the interrogation techniques approved by the Bush administration, Mr. Cheney, as part of researching his memoir, had asked the National Archives to declassify two other documents he contends would show that harsh interrogations produced useful information, according to his daughter Liz, who is helping him organize and write the memoir. The documents do not reveal specific tactics, Ms. Cheney said.Now, I happen to know that the Times checked it out, and yes, Cheney made the request.

That's #1 Jeremy.
You are ignorant about the truth and if you want to keep playing, I will pull your pants diown and expose you in front of everyone as a fool.

Start thinking about it real serious, son. You don't get many chances with me. I don't suffer ignorant fools gladly.

AlphaLiberal said...

Porter Goss, remember, allowed corruption to flourish at the CIA under his command and had to resign under a cloud of controversy.

Dusty Foggo worked for Goss and was later indicted as part of the Brent Wilkes - Duke Cunningham corruption scandal.

Not exactly a pillar of virtue.

Dale said...

Jeremy, while ranting and heavy breathing his liberal-talking lines, gave us this above at 7:08 pm:

Oh, by the way, if you did actually read, you'd know that the CIA says Cheney never requested anything relating to the memos he keeps harping about.Now what Jeremy wants you to think is that Dick Cheney was lying when he said he had requested release of said memoes. Jeremy is either very ignorant (possible), or very disingenuous ("quick, look over there, not here!").

But here is what actually happened:

#1)see my post at 9:11 pm above

#2)Obtained: Cheney’s Request Form Detailing The Two CIA Torture Docs He WantsHonest liberals admit their mistakes and move on. Honest liberals (I know, they are a small number).

Which means if you are now reading this because you were linked here, you now have verifiable proof that Jeremy is NOT an honest liberal.