February 17, 2009

You think because a chimpanzee knows you, he doesn't hate you?

"A 200-pound pet chimpanzee in Stamford, Conn., Monday viciously mauled a woman he had known for years, leaving her critically injured with much of her face torn away... The attack, in the driveway of a sprawling home in a densely wooded neighborhood on the north side of Stamford, also brought a brutal end to the life of the chimpanzee, Travis, 14, a popular figure in town who had appeared in television commercials and often posed for photographs at the towing shop operated by his owners.... Travis was in a rambunctious mood... Travis would not be lured back into the house, even after Ms. Herold gave him tea laced with Xanax. Ms. Herold called Ms. Nash, who drove over, but when she stepped out of her car at around 3:40 p.m., Travis went at her full force. While it was not clear what prompted the assault, Ms. Nash had markedly changed her hairstyle since the last time Travis had seen her, possibly leading him to mistake her for an intruder."

ADDED: "One thing that we're looking into is that we understand the chimpanzee has Lyme disease and has been ill from that..."

Oh, for the love of God. He had chimpanzeeness. The human beings are responsible for leaving him unrestrained. Do you think because it's Connecticut, he will behave? The loathsome sentimentality of these excuses! For relief from sentimentality, feast your eyes on the comments herein. I won't frontpage the most ribald and cruel things. I'll just say the one thing that really made me laugh. After I wrote: "This is Darwin Award level stupidity. You don't keep a pet 200-pound ape around the house!" Rocketeer67 said:
Please, don't ever let my wife hear you say this. I don't have any place else to go!
IN THE COMMENTS: Pogo:
"2009: A Chimp Odyssey"

TRAVIS: Look Charla, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a Xanax, and think things over.

TRAVIS: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, including the impromptu facelift, but I can give you my complete assurance that my behavior will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in Stamford. And I want to stay in the neighborhood.

[TRAVIS gets a fatal dose of Xanax]

TRAVIS: I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Charla. Charla, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid."
AND: Pogo continues:
My Dinner With Travis

TRAVIS: Goals and plans are not — I mean, they're fantasy. They're part of a dream life! I mean, you know, it always just does seem so ridiculous somehow that everybody has to have his little goal in life. I mean, it's so absurd, in a way. I mean, when you consider that it doesn't matter which one it is.

CHARLA: Right! And because people's concentration is on their goals, in their life they just live each moment by habit! Really, like the Norwegian, telling the same stories over and over again. Life becomes habitual! And it is, today! I mean, very few things happen now like that moment when Marlon Brando sent the Indian woman to accept the Oscar and everything went haywire? Things just very rarely go haywire now. And if you're just operating by habit, then you're not really living. I mean, you know, in Sanskrit the root of the verb "to be" is the same as the verb "to grow" or "to make grow."

TRAVIS: ***CHOMP***

CHARLA: AAAAARRRRRGGGGhhhhhackspitgurgle

TRAVIS: Do you think maybe we live in this dream world because we do so many things every day that affect us in ways that somehow we're just not aware of?

TRAVIS: Charla?

TRAVIS: Charla?

208 comments:

1 – 200 of 208   Newer›   Newest»
mcg said...

Ms. Nash had markedly changed her hairstyle since the last time Travis had seen her, possibly leading him to mistake her for an intruder.

Maybe he just hated the new look.

Awesome said...

Tea and Xanax make a deadly combination in upper primates.

Ann Althouse said...

This is such an awful story, but the potential for jokes is just too much for you guys.

Ann Althouse said...

I was going to make a "bad hair day" tag, but I resisted.

Anyway, this is Darwin Award level stupidity. You don't keep a pet 200-pound ape around the house!

Big Mike said...

It would be nice if people remembered that many animals treated as pets are fundamentally wild animals. Chimps are intelligent, but it's an alien intelligence. They are not just hairy little humans who lack lips.

Ann Althouse said...

Hey, Charla, could you come over. I have a giant uncontrollable ape I'd like to get into the house.

Sure thing. I'll be right over. That Travis is such a sweet, adorable clown. I'm gonna give him a big hug.

And he's going to tear your face off.

SteveR said...

All kidding aside, people who treat these types of animals as if they were domesticated or nearly so, are asking for it.

Having 99%+ of the same DNA as a human doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to behaviour.

ironrailsironweights said...

What disturbs me is that the police captain who spoke to the Times says he "truly hopes" that the prosecutors don't file criminal charges against the chimp's owner. Is he an idiot, or is he an idiot?

Peter

mcg said...

This is such an awful story, but the potential for jokes is just too much for you guys.

It's a coping mechanism. After all, thanks to this story I'm going to have to consider sending away the alligator we adopted. But she seems so peaceful when she sleeps in my five-year old's room.

Jay said...

No kidding here, rather a "me too" for Steve R. Chimps are the worst apes you can keep around: they commit murder, they hunt the young of their own, and they are generally disagreeable animals.

Pop culture has shown them to be gentle apes with a knack for intelligence. I say they are a reflection of the savagery with which we are capable.

rocketeer67 said...

Anyway, this is Darwin Award level stupidity. You don't keep a pet 200-pound ape around the house!

Please, don't ever let my wife hear you say this. I don't have any place else to go!

Awesome said...

Though the Gipper showed he could hold his own against one.

Ern said...

Chimpanzees are, in addition to being nasty, immensely strong. Human strength simply doesn't compare with that of a chimpanzee.

save_the_rustbelt said...

Many people are just stupid.

Anyone with a large wild animal at home should keep a large rifle handy.

Better yet, do not keep wild animals, or feed them Xanax. Or Prosac.

And the cops should probably indict the hairdresser.

rhhardin said...

Chimps are unpredictable (to humans) when they reach sexual maturity; a slight flaw in the language-learning chimps ``just like us'' story.

Dog owners have long been annoying the chimp people with ``My dog can do that'' remarks in any case.

Vicki Hearne's ``Washoe'' chapter in Adam's Task covers the signing chimp story, usually ending in the chimp being retired to a happy park away from humans.

Xmas said...

What, no 28 Days Later references?

The chimp, it infected with RAGE!

Xmas said...

...is infected with RAGE!


(I forgot to proofread before posting.)

PatCA said...

"Not clear what prompted the response..."

He's an animal?

Here's a local story: Ferocious Attack

What is interesting to me is the note of faux puzzlement over what prompted these attacks, when both animals were so "loved"! Probably some sort of economic deprivation or speciest insensitivty. Those damn humans!

ironrailsironweights said...

Regarding 28 Days Later, the director's commentary on the DVD mentioned the difficulties of filming the chimp scene. Chimps are so dangerous and unpredictable that they can only be used for filming purposes when very young. Even then, using them requires highly trained handlers and is very expensive. There are only two sets of chimps in the world regularly available for filming purposes, one in California and the other (IIRC) in Germany.

Peter

Psychedelic George said...

Met a guy last night who does mind control on monkeys.

Implants.

We'll all have these in a decade or two or three. Babies will probably get them at birth.

Drill a tiny hole in the skull and shoot the thing in.

Microscopic nano bio brain-machines in constant wireless communication with the internet.

Then there will be no more monkey hate.

Who will want to go to the white mountains then?

There will only be five clocks in the village (apart from the one in the church tower), and your father might own one of them.

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

This is all very sad. As you know all know I am a member of PETA and strongly discourage any human of keeping an animal like a chimp as a pet. Dogs and other domesticated animals are fine but this is ridiculous.

There is currently a moment of silence for the chimp at my fabulous loft.

I just pinched a loaf.

I had a dream last night that I was friends with Amy Sedaris. How weird is that?

Lastly, please write all of your republican governors and plead themm not to take the stimulus money for their states. If they do they will be doomed if they try and run in 2012.

Bissage said...

Say what you will.

Any primate species that commits genocide can't be all bad.

EDH said...

While it was not clear what prompted the assault, Ms. Nash had markedly changed her hairstyle since the last time Travis had seen her, possibly leading him to mistake her for an intruder.

I wonder if the hairstyle was a perm?

If it wasn't, it is now.

Clyde said...

SteveR said "Having 99%+ of the same DNA as a human doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to behaviour."

Actually, it means a lot. Humans are a vicious lot by nature. It takes a lot of civilizing to get humans to keep those vicious impulses under control; some civilizations are better at it than others. Chimps, however, have no civilization to give them a better nature. Chimps are our closest living relatives, which makes them pretty nasty customers. They're fast and strong, and they were mean enough to chase our ancestors out of the trees and onto the savannah.

They're not suitable as house pets, in other words.

traditionalguy said...

She needed to get a Family Violence Restraining Order issued and served on the big Ape. Then the Sheriffs would have read him his banana rights before arresting him and taking him to a Kangaroo Court. This victim who stuck her nose in, without looking as sexy as Faye Wray, is to blame. Did she she think it looked more like an Abe than an an Ape? Talk about having a bad day, this lady is going to need big time trauma counseling. And it does seem that the survival of the fittest still depends on who is armed with guns.

Trooper York said...

[the first words ever spoken by a human to the apes]
George Taylor: Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!
(Planet of the Apes, 1968)

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

When I get my hair cut or my sack waxed or a detox treatment my rare clumbers sniff me for quite awhile.

I just sit there and let them sniff me. I sniff them too and pretend I am animal with them.

My rare clumbers are the most beautiful creatures in the world. I love them so much. They are my best friends. On our drive to the Berkshires one slept on my lap the entire way up there. One the way back it was the others turn. I love animals so much. Dogs are amazing. I love spooning with them-much more than I would like to do with a human. I don't like humans that much.

After I got my balls waxed last weekend she slapped some ointment on them that stung. She slapped them a little hard too. I was like bitch take it easy.

Darcy said...

Horrific. That poor woman.

Trooper York said...

Shock the monkey to life
Shock the monkey to life

Cover me when I run
Cover me through the fire
Something knocked me out the trees
Now Im on my knees
Cover me, darling please
Monkey, monkey, monkey
Dont you know when youre going to shock the monkey

Fox the fox
Rat the rat
You can ape the ape
I know about that
There is one thing you must be sure of
I cant take any more
Darling, dont you monkey with the monkey
Monkey, monkey, monkey
Dont you know youre going to shock the monkey
(Shock the Monkey, Peter Gabriel)

Trooper York said...

Don't taze me bro.

Trooper York said...

Shock the monkey instead.

Rick Lee said...

Whenever I hear a story like this, I always think: from the chimp's point of view, he's being held prisoner against his will. Why wouldn't he kill his "owner"?

jayne_cobb said...

I'm wondering if this is going to be the last time this site has this combination of labels.

TC Powell said...

Didn't a Spanish court grant apes the legal status of humans last year?

Freeman Hunt said...

Why would a chimp be allowed as a pet anyway? That's insane. What if you had a neighbor with a chimp?

If I ever have a neighbor with a chimp, that chimp had better watch his back.

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

Where did the chimp sleep?

I bet she was doing the chimp.

Trooper York said...

I mean this is Connecticut right? Why didn't they get one of those Stepford monkeys?

Or is that the wrong movie?

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

I bet she put peanut butter up her 70 year old cooch and had the chimp eat it out.

You know she did.

EDH said...

Titus said...
After I got my balls waxed last weekend she slapped some ointment on them that stung. She slapped them a little hard too. I was like bitch take it easy.


Immediately after,

Darcy said...
Horrific. That poor woman.


Excuse me, Darcy, I couldn't tell if you were talking about the woman attacked by the ape, or the one who had to wax Titus' balls.

Trooper York said...

Tonight’s the night for lovin’
And I got my eye on you
Thinkin’ ‘bout all the animal things
That you and me are gonna do

I can’t forget that day
I walked in the zoo and there you were
Chewin’ on that banana
Pickin’ bugs out of your fur

Honey, you been on my mind
And you know that love is blind
So tonight I’m gonna make you mine
From your head down to your red behind

Baby, gimme some o’ that
Hot, hot monkey love
Baby, don’t you know it’s only
You that I been thinkin’ of
We go together like a hand in glove
We’re gonna fly to the stars above
On the wings of a great love dove
Gimme that hot, hot monkey love

You could be my queen, babe
Just let me be your Kong
Put on a vest and hat, and do tricks
While I grind my organ all night long

I know that you’re curious
Don’t resist; it ain’t no use
Just hold on tight ‘cause baby, tonight
We’re goin’ every which way but loose

I know we’re from different species
I’m a man, and you’re a rhesus
But I get weak in the kneesies
Every time, every time you fling your feces

Baby, gimme some o’ that
Hot, hot monkey love
Baby, don’t you know it’s only
You that I’m thinkin’ of
We’ll escape, my ape, makin’ sparks ignite
Like a shooting star in the deep dark night
Or a rocket ship burnin’ oh, so bright
Just gimme that hot, hot monkey love

(Hot Monkey Love, Paul and Storm)

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

That is correct. Stepford was Connecticut but Stamford is not Stepford. This took place in Stamford.

Think more Trumbull-that is Stepford.

I think Trumbull was The Ice Storm too. Trumbull or Stepford would never have a monkey as a pet.

Southern Connecticut is fabulous. Northern Connecticut is fucked up and very red neck.

How your balls hanging Troop?

Lem said...

from the chimp's point of view..

Jesus... now they want pets to understand the movie?

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

Stamford is Southern Ct. but not fabulous.

I did a guy from Stamford once. I did one from New Haven too. And Waterbury and New London and Cheshire. Never from Trumbull though, although I would like too because it is fabulous and that is where Ice Storm was supposed to take place.

Never did a guy from Mystic either. Been there, it is cute as a button but kind of red neck as well.

SteveR said...

Clyde, I think I meant what you stated, better than me.

Michael H said...

That entire story was taken from my soon-to-be-published best seller Furious George Has a Very Bad Day.

There go the royalties.

chuck b. said...

Humans do this sort of stuff to each other with frightening regularity, too.

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

I have never done a chimp either or any animal.

I have gotten a hardon when spooning my rare clumbers though. Is that wrong? I wasn't naked or anything and there was no penetration if that matters. I can get a hardon if I have a pillow between my legs though. I think I have humped a pillow before, not to climax though. I have also lighted my own farts as well as farts of my friends.

I also like to stick my hand downs my pants and just lightly tickle around my hog and balls. That feels good.

traditionalguy said...

These chimps treated people like the Japanese Army in the WW2 treated chinese and Americans whom they had defeated, as only deserving to be mauled and killed. But the USMC had more firepower and the will to use it. Therefore we are alive today. Survival by the will to use firepower remains a basic truth upon this Peaceful planet.

Darcy said...

LOL, EDH. My timing was terrible!

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

In Rhode Island I did a guy from Providence, Warwick, Cranston, Newport and I think that's it.

Newport is fabulous and Providence is such a cute little city. Lots of sex in Providence. Lots of sex shops and sex stores and strip joints.

Trooper York said...

The show must go on

Oh, one monkey
Don't stop no show
If you don't want my love
You're free to go
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

Life is a play
We play different parts
But to be a star in love
You've got to feel it in your heart

You've been acting to strange
You don't love me with soul
Well, there's lots of other guys
Who'd love to play your role

If you don't wanna be my leading man
Get out of my life and let me live again
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

Oh, the show must go on

Hey, one monkey
Don't stop no show
If you don't want my love
You're free to go
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

I said one monkey
Don't stop no show
If you really need our love
You'd better let it show
(Let it show, let it show, let it show)

Once we had a love
You couldn't live without
The greatest love that heaven
Has ever put out

Success has gone to your head
You wanna be free, yeah
Fool, don't you realize
Your backbone is me

If you no longer like your part
Get out of my life before you ruin my heart
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

Oh, the show must go on

I love you
But I can do without you
Arriba, arriba

You can go
There's the door
You can go, you can go
The show must go on

Hey, one monkey
Don't stop no show
If you don't want my love
You're free to go
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

I said one monkey
Don't stop no show

(Honey Cone, One Monkey)

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ironrailsironweights said...

I think Trumbull was The Ice Storm too.

No, the movie was set in New Canaan.

Peter

Lem said...

Conklin also suggested the animal may have attacked Nash because she was wearing her hair differently.

Legal pad..

A hairdresser in Connecticut…. (the hairdo was probably atrocious)
A “friend” asking you to come over with a crazy chimp in the house.
And a town that allows people to have a chimp in the house..

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

A friend of mine said if I was straight there would be thousands of little Titus's running around the world.

Isn't that sweet?

I did a real farmer from Wisconsin. He wanted me to move in with him and toil the soil. I was like no thanks but put your overalls on with no clothes underneath and have your hog hang out while holding a hoe-and I aint talking about me as the hoe. He had real pigs on the farm and the place smelled like manure. It was kind of hot though.

Lawgiver said...

If you have an emu with you at all times a chimp will not attack.

Freeman Hunt said...

There should be a straw poll with this post.

If your neighbor had a crazy chimp and wouldn't get rid of it, would you poison it (or similar) to protect yourself and your family?

Just curious.

AJ Lynch said...

"Furious George". LOL.

I just watched a TV show that reported an incident where chimps in Africa attacked a car with four men inside. The chimp smashed one car window and bit off half of one guy's hand.

The men fled and the chimp followed. One of the four men was attacked a while later (on foot after the car broke down) and killed by a pack of chimps!

I do not make this stuff up.

TC Powell said...

A nuclear Iran, a global economic crisis and a dead chimp. Isn't this a prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Freeman Hunt said...

Titus, between this and the Stella comments, you seem to be careening off of some edge today.

Matt Eckert said...

I thought this was a movie with Samuel L. Jackson?

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

You are right New Canaan-fabulous.

Trumbull is fabulous too.

I haven't done anyone from either city. That is one of my goals/New Years resolutions this year.

I did a muzzie from Patterson, New Jersey, which was very hot. I wanted to go to his hood and slip through his apartment door all on the downlow, rather than going to my hood in the gay ghetto. The whole discretion, guilt, shame of going to his place and being all undercover was very hot.

Newtons Bit said...

Does anyone know if it was a Bonobo or a Pan Troglodyte?

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...

New Haven is gross. Once you leave the university it is nasty. Good pizza though.

Now Cambridge that is a fabulous city. I did many in Cambridge.

Trooper York said...

Chorus: We got a gorilla for sale. Magilla Gorilla for sale. Won't you buy him? Take him home and try him? Gorilla for sale. He's real, he's ideal and he's awfully cute. An ever living doll in a monkey suit. Gorilla, Magilla Gorilla for sale.
Ogee: How much is that gorilla in the window?
Chorus: Take our advice, at any price, a gorilla like Magilla is mighty nice. Gorilla, Magilla Gorilla for sale!
(Magilla Gorilla, 1964)

Don't be cheap and settle for the chimp. If you're gonna go ape, go all the way baby.

Michael H said...

I just watched a TV show that reported an incident where chimps in Africa attacked a car with four men inside. The chimp smashed one car window and bit off half of one guy's hand.

It is a well known fact that chimps hate Toyotas. They like to roll in Cadillacs.

Oligonicella said...

Down where I live we go a guy named Russ. He's had chimps for years. Raised them from infancy. One of his favorites not long ago bit off his finger. Russ had to learn how to play the banjo again.

Idiots with money.

AJ Lynch said...

Michael H;

Could have been a Toyota but was definitely not a Cadillac. Heh.

Ron said...

We Althouse commenters aren't necessarily cruel; we're just impatient waiting for Congress to signoff on our stimulus package...

Ribald, s'fair cop!

J said...

"I wonder if the hairstyle was a perm?"

Why women think those look good is a mystery for the ages.

Richard Fagin said...

The idiot hairdresser should move to Coloroado where she can go to city council meetings and "speak for" mountain lions when they kill passersby in the park.

Chimp keepers and everyone else sufffering from "fluffy mountain lion syndrome" need to read "The Beast in the Garden."

Does anyone outside Connecticut and Colorado think that people who strap bombs to themselves and blow up pizza parlors full of children are going to "behave themselves" because we asked them nicely?

Different wild animals, same idiots.

Cedarford said...

TituswasintheBerkshiresspaaing said...
That is correct. Stepford was Connecticut but Stamford is not Stepford. This took place in Stamford.


Incorrect. Ira Levin was a resident of Stamford, on Wire Rim Rd. He for years denied that Stepford was inspired by Stamford, but such is the lore - everyone knew. Oddly, the chimp attack occured on Rock Rimmon Road a few miles from where Levin once lived. Details courtesy of one of my sisters, once a proud Stepford Wife, lived in N Stamford and knew the woman vaguely and had seen the chimp.

******************
All animals of a certain size are dangerous..a pal was forced-retired from the military for an old hip injury gone arthritic caused by a pet ram sheep when he was 9 or 10. Best pet ever, until one day...
****************
I'd put chimps up there with the worst. They are intelligent, once they attack they keep going until they are happy, and they work by chewing off or ripping off soft parts in a typical full bore chimp on human attack.
In the "pattern", in chimp warfare and in human attack meant to kill, chimps bite and chew off parts of the face. Slam the head to stun prey with hands while grabbing the defenders hands and chomping off and eating finger by finger. (Last two notorious attacks left one man with 2 fingers, the other with none, and one hand bitten off down to the wrist.
And the typical attack has them move on to the genitals in humans and chimps where they rip off the victims balls/penis or vulva and eat them as trophies.

Man that sucks!

The California victim of a 2005 attack said even with half his face bitten off, most fingers gone within seconds - he knew what the chimp was going for when it began ripping his front pant pockets then underwear off and kicked it in the face...alas, the chimp is 3-5 times stronger than a healthy man. It just grabbed his foot, twisted it to break it, then tore it off.

Then the balls.
Half his dick.
He was unconscious.

Then it ate another 1/3rd of his face and rest of his remaining fingers before a warden arived and put a 12 guage shotgun at the base of the chimps brainpan and ended matters.

*****************

Pogo said...

Every Which Way But Loose (1978) (apologies to Trooper)

Ma Boggs: Philo, what're you gonna do with the baboon?
Philo Beddoe: Chimpanzee, Ma. Travis is a chimpanzee.
Ma Boggs: [scoffs] Well, what's the difference?
Philo Beddoe: 12 ribs. Just like you and me.
Ma Boggs: [persistent] What're you gonna do with him?
Philo Beddoe: He's coming with me. Come on, Travis!
[Travis enters back of camper]
Ma Boggs: Well, when are you comin' back?
Philo: Whenever it's time, Ma!
Ma Boggs: [shruggs, exasperated] It just don't seem right to leave an old lady alone. And what about my goddamn hairdo?
Ma Boggs: This is... it's just...
[walks off]
Ma Boggs: Twelve ribs... I don't believe any of that shit!
Philo Beddoe: I didn't say he had 12 ribs, I said he could eat 12 ribs. Plus your face.
Ma Boggs: MMffmmmmkkkkkgack
Philo Beddoe: Whazzat Ma? Monkey got your tongue?
Philo Beddoe: Goddamn ugliest perm evar. Right Travis?

Psychedelic George said...

Cedarford--

It's "chimp's brainpan" not "chimps brainpan."

You are correct that 'brainpan' is one word. Most people think it is two.

Pogo said...

Of all the monkeys, I always feared Mickey Dolenz the most.

Smilin' Jack said...

Why all the chimp-bashing? If her husband had done this it wouldn't even have made the news. A few days ago in Buffalo a man's business wasn't going so good, so he removed his wife's head with a carving knife. It was only newsworthy because his business was improving Muslim-American relations, which set up irresistible snark opportunities:

Orchard Park police are investigating a particularly gruesome killing, the beheading of a woman, after her husband — an influential member of the local Muslim community — reported her death to police Thursday.

Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.

Among other things, if the charges are true, I think it's fair to say he's failed at his job.


From "The Corner" Feb 13.

Cedarford said...

Newtons Bit said...
Does anyone know if it was a Bonobo or a Pan Troglodyte?


Thats a great question. No news report I saw mentioned the species. The guy I just talked about from the California attack was went after by a 39-year old Pans Troglodyte. He and his ditsy wife went there, in fact, with a birthday cake for the beast.

The Cali guy is still living, now 67. A narrow escape from a Darwin's Award through the miracle of modern medicine. Fingerless, balless, mostly faceless. No doubt enjoying his golden years.

traditionalguy said...

Cedarford... That sounds like the Japanese Army in action. The HAMAS guys would be sending angry Chimps over to Israel,if they could be sure they wouldn't return to where they came from. Let me think... do I have any animal-lover enemies that have a birthday coming up?

garage mahal said...

My father in law works with a guy who comes down to Madison to catch hawks for falconing. His wife said it was her or the hawks because he insisted they be kept inside the house. Hawks 1. Wife 0.

Anthony said...

I was wondering why he was ripping off her face and then I remembered a line from a Bill Cosby routine: "The first thing a [gorilla] will try to do is rip your ear off. See, he wants to peel you."

Darcy said...

Aww, Mickey was my favorite Monkee!

Pogo said...

Kidding Darcy. Only kidding.

"Davy Jones" just doesn't sound as funny.

Pogo said...

"Michael Nesmith" is equally dull, but "Peter Tork", now there's comedy gold.

jeff said...

"[the first words ever spoken by a human to the apes]
George Taylor: Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!
(Planet of the Apes, 1968)"

Not true Trooper. Remember, Conquest of, and Battle for predated Planet of. Prequels if you will.

"Of all the monkeys, I always feared Mickey Dolenz the most."
But he had a smoking hot daughter. Now, that Peter guy....anyone who saw the Monkees movie know there is something wrong with that boy.

Ron said...

I wonder if Nesmith is still banking Mom's White Out royalties, or is that passe?

tim maguire said...

It's a shame the chimp had to die just so these idiots could have na exotic pet.

jeff said...

"I wonder if Nesmith is still banking Mom's White Out royalties, or is that passe?"

I cant believe Romy was his mother. Or was it Michelle?

TMink said...

A rat is a dog is a pig? Oh boy!

Animals are not like you and me. They do not have frontal lobes with which to reason. We forget little details like that when we get all postmodern.

Trey

Michael said...

If she had a Pitbull to defend her maybe she'd be alive today.

PatCA said...

Speaking of this (fatal) sentimentality, Oprah had the makers of the Earth series on the show and they described the scene where a pack of lions attacks an elephant, hanging on to it with their jaws until the bring it down and kill it, and Oprah lamented "Oooh" and then they guys apologized for it, saying "It was the only time we saw that happen."

Riiight. The rest of the animals, the nice ones, the liberals, go to the market to buy their food, and they're mostly vegetarians now anyways.

Revenant said...

They do not have frontal lobes with which to reason.

They do, they just aren't nearly as good at it as we are.

Paul Snively said...

Ron: I wonder if Nesmith is still banking Mom's White Out royalties, or is that passe?

Er... Michael Nesmith, who was the only Monkee who was actually a musician, went on to come up with an idea which he sold to Time Warner/Amex, who transmogrified it into MTV.

My other favorite Monkee story: there was a young musician who wanted to go pro, but couldn't under his own name, David Jones, because there was already a very popular "Davey Jones" ostensibly in the music biz. So he renamed himself after his favorite type of knife.

Eli Blake said...

Hark! The Herold ape did swing, gory to the new hair thing!

Eli Blake said...

Paul,

I think that Davey Jones went on to star in Pirates of the Caribbean II.

jeff said...

"So he renamed himself after his favorite type of knife."

Never heard that story.

Lem said...

I'm just going to go ahead now and mention Palin... should this tread reach the magic 100.

Just to be on the safe side ;)

jeff said...

David Switchblade. Man, he was huge in the late 60's. Whatever happened to him?

Lem said...

BTW.

Palin wouldn’t have needed to call anybody.

Ron said...

I cant believe Romy was his mother. Or was it Michelle?

"I know! Let's fold scarves!"

Paul, I know about the MTV buxs; I'm just wondering how much coin there still is in White Out! (invented by Nesmith's Mom!)

bearbee said...

Someone should adapt O'Neill's The Hairy Ape to the cruel situation.

The isolatation and de-aping of a wild animal into aping human modern living.

ricpic said...

Right turn, Clyde.

Couldn't resist piggybacking Pogo's EWWBL comment.


Even the common house cat poses the danger of sudden seemingly unprovoked attacks. Rare is the cat owner who hasn't stroked the cat the "wrong" way and suffered a clawing. I put scare quotes around wrong because the same stroking that resulted nothing but a purr from kitty the first 100 times can trigger an attack the 101st.

Darcy said...

Oh, I'm in heaven with the Monkees talk, some Bowie trivia...and:

"I know! Let's fold scarves!"

LOL, Ron. I love that movie. Guilty pleasure.

lohwoman said...

Mr. Muggs just loved Dave Garroway. He taught Dave that hand thing, "Peace."

Republican said...

That damned tow-truck riding chimp has made a monkey of his owners.

Freeman Hunt said...

The rest of the animals, the nice ones, the liberals, go to the market to buy their food, and they're mostly vegetarians now anyways.

Heh. And sometimes animals lie down and die on purpose to provide us with high end meat. It's those low class meats, like ground beef or turkey near Sarah Palin, that we actually have to kill for.

Trooper York said...

The problem with Cheeta is the problem you have with most chimps. They are totally oversexed and will screw anything that moves. All they are concerned about is having monkey sex and pinching a loaf which they then love to fling at you. It was real hard to work when one of your stars is always whacking it or having sex somewhere off in a corner. It was like working with Mickey Rourke when he was still on the stuff. But we caught a break when we cast Maureen O’Sullivan as Jane. You see she liked that hot monkey sex just as much as Cheeta ever did. So she would just take that randy chimp by the hand and disappear into her trailer for hours at a time. When they came back they were both glassy eyed and ready for direction. Of course we kept it all secret at the time. We were afraid that it would come out when Maureen’s daughter Mia Farrow was born.Mia definitely resembled her mother’s hirsute co-star. I guess that was why her mom always called her a “little monkey.”
(One Monkey Don’t Steal No Show, The E True Hollywood Story of Cheeta)

Ron said...

If Palin endorsed a sausage, she could call it "Stimulus -- trust me, you don't want to know how it's made!"

Pogo said...

And the Lord said "The lion shall lay down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get much sleep."
Genesis 5:31-32

JohnAnnArbor said...

All they are concerned about is having monkey sex and pinching a loaf which they then love to fling at you.

Sounds a bit familiar.

jeff said...

"We were afraid that it would come out when Maureen’s daughter Mia Farrow was born.Mia definitely resembled her mother’s hirsute co-star."

I always suspected as much. The perpetual "deer in the headlights" look she has is actually a "chimp in the headlights" look. Its all fitting together now.

Joe said...

Wrong David, jeff, I believe he was referring to David Buck.

jeff said...

"Sounds a bit familiar."
Too bad it wasnt a hog instead of a chimp.

Darcy said...

Oh! LOL, JohnAnnArbor!

Joe said...

People think dolphins are nice. Actually, they are quite mean (and stupid.)

Daniel said...

Ann Althouse, Jane Goodall of the chimps! Which of your scholarly work does the term "chimpanzeeness" come from? Also, I'm looking forward to your next in-depth treatise on how serial killers demonstrate that people can't be trusted.

jeff said...

I'm thinking its that one guy....David Italian Stiletto. Remember him? he did the Ed Sullivan show, then moved to Siberia, became a monk, came back to the West and joined a band then died choking on vomit? Not his vomit. Someone else. He had a brief mention in that rock documentary Spinal Tap.

Shanna said...

Even the common house cat poses the danger of sudden seemingly unprovoked attacks. Rare is the cat owner who hasn't stroked the cat the "wrong" way and suffered a clawing.

Anyone who’s ever had a cat ought to be smart enough not to get a large cat, of any kind, to keep as a pet for just this reason. And yet.

I’m completely scared of Chimps now.

Shanna said...

People think dolphins are nice. Actually, they are quite mean (and stupid.)

Some seals jump in a dolphin like pattern over the water to try to fool sharks into thinking they are dolphins, so they won’t mess with them.

I’ve found dolphins creepy ever since that Simpson episodes where they drove the humans into the sea.

Palladian said...

Don't dolphins rape people sometimes?

Palladian said...

"Even the common house cat poses the danger of sudden seemingly unprovoked attacks. Rare is the cat owner who hasn't stroked the cat the "wrong" way and suffered a clawing."

If your cat was big enough, it would kill you.

Pogo said...

Chimpanzee Love
by America

Chimpy, chimpy candlelight
Doin' the town and doin' it right
In the evenin'
It's pretty pleasin'

Chimpy Travis, Human Charla
Do the jitterbug out in chimpy land
And they shimmy
And Travis is so hungry

And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Tearin' off her face and perm
It looks like chimpy loo-oo-ove

J said...

"A narrow escape from a Darwin's Award through the miracle of modern medicine"

And the medical skills of Dr Zira.

So do you think Gov Sarah would have taken the chimp out with a head shot or just emptied the clip into him?

jeff said...

"Don't dolphins rape people sometimes?"

Beats me. I'm not going to be the one putting that into google.

"Anyone who’s ever had a cat ought to be smart enough not to get a large cat, of any kind, to keep as a pet for just this reason."

You do know when your cat starts nudging your face in the morning, it isn't to wake you up so you will feed it. It's to see if your dead so it can start eating you.

jeff said...

"So do you think Gov Sarah would have taken the chimp out with a head shot or just emptied the clip into him?"

Head shot for the kill. Empty the clip as a lesson for the other chimps.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Hey, didn't Michael Jackson have a chimp? Maybe it went for his face and that explains his nose reconstruction.

JohnAnnArbor said...

It's to see if your dead so it can start eating you.

Nothing wrong with being practical.

traditionalguy said...

Has the Supreme Court extended Constititional rights to all Mammals so that we appear fair to the Animals who will then suddenly love us? Reparations to wolves is the next step, since they all are known Democrats, except for poor Paul Wolfowitz.(FYI Mammals do breast feed their offspring, which is a lot of trouble)The Wolves can also claim credit for starting the Roman Empire per the local historys of Rome.

jeff said...

True. I do appreciate the check before it starts eating. So far I have been alive and it has refrained.

Trooper York said...

"Don't dolphins rape people sometimes?"

Hey that was only that one time and Mercury Morris was in prison at the time so it doesn't really count.

Freeman Hunt said...

If your cat was big enough, it would kill you.

And that's what would be great about having one. "Ha, eat it, cat. I'm way bigger than you, and you'll never stand a chance."

A person should never own an animal that he can't beat in a fight. I've never been in a fight with an animal, but I live by that.

Beth said...

My partner wants a monkey. She says that someday we'll have a monkey, and I say, no, we won't have a monkey. Travis has given me the edge in that discussion.

But I did get her a painting by Cheetah, who lives comfortably in retirement, selling paintings on the internet. It was an awesome birthday present and I'm very pleased with myself for thinking of it.

garage mahal said...

Palladian...
"Don't dolphins rape people sometimes?"

If a dolphin jumped off a bridge would you do it too?

AllenS said...

I've bulls before, and you always, and I mean always have to be aware of them. Even cows with new calves have to be watched closely. Never owned a chimp or dolphin.

Shanna said...

A person should never own an animal that he can't beat in a fight.

I kind of agree with this, except dogs might *might* be an exception. But probably not. If you're going to have a dog I think it should be exceptionally well tempered.

Pogo said...

Every Which Way But Saturday Night Fever

Tony Manero: Would ya just watch the hair? Ya know, I work on my hair a long time and you bite it. He bites my hair.

Clyde: ***CHOMP***

Tony Manero: AAAAAAIIIIIIEEEEeeeeeeee!!!

jeff said...

So far the cat can't operate the safety on my Smith. No opposable thumbs bitch! She hates it when I tell her that. She knows she would be bringing claws to a gun fight, so we keep an uneasy peace in the house.

jeff said...

She ever learns how to load the .357 revolver, I am dead meat. I keep it empty for that reason.

Pogo said...

Bedtime for Blade Runner

Batty: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. Pet chimps making humans faceless. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Professor Peter Boyd: Uh, okay, but look, I might as well tell you now. He's a monkey.

Batty: A replicant?.

Peter Boyd: A real monkey.

Batty: You should have seen my brother Gus.

Trooper York said...

Once Maureen left the movies to have a baby it was very hard to find another starlet who would put out for a monkey. I mean we could have used Geraldine Page who would screw anything but even Cheeta wouldn’t touch that pig. So we were kind of stuck. We had to find a way to amuse the chimp since he was such an important part of the series. So we experiment. First we started to get him drunk because we figured if it could work with Richard Burton and Peter O’Toole it could work with a monkey. But he would just get sleepy and not be able to hit his mark. Then we tried various drugs. We borrowed some pot from Robert Mitchum but that just made him incredibly hungry so that was no good. Downers also made him sleepy. We found the thing that worked the best was opium. That would mellow him out. And it had another strange effect. It made really crave cheddar cheese. That was great because we had a hook to get us a bunch of government surplus cheese and that’s all the freakin’ monkey would do is eat cheese and smoke opium. So he was pretty mellow except that he still liked to throw his feces around. The opium made him kind of constipated and made him shit out these little yellow turds because of all the cheese. One day he was amusing himself at an appearance at the Jack Benny show by throwing his poo against the wall so it would bounce on to the food commissary table. He had so many that he made a game of it and filled up a bowl. Well there was this guy from Kraft who was the sponsor who saw this bowl of monkey turds and got all pissed off because they were only supposed to have Kraft products. He tasted one of the pieces cheesy monkey shit and was intrigued He sought out the source and was initially repulsed but the taste of the opium laced cheesy turds was just too good. Thus the Cheeto was born.
(One Monkey Don’t Steal No Show, The E True Hollywood Story of Cheeta)

Palladian said...

"Hey, didn't Michael Jackson have a chimp? Maybe it went for his face and that explains his nose reconstruction."

He doesn't have "Bubbles" anymore. I wasn't able to find out where "Bubbles" currently resides. Coincidentally, Bubbles came from the same animal training facility as the chimps that perpetrated the attack described by Cedarford.

Here's an upsetting little morsel from Wikipedia:

"The jury in Jackson's 2005 child molestation case were shown excerpts of the documentary in which Bashir interviews Jackson about the chimpanzees being employed around the ranch and doing work such as dusting and cleaning of windows and toilets. Jackson explained: "They (chimpanzees) are very smart." Jackson then stated that, "Their DNA is literally identical to humans when you look under a microscope." ... Also at the trial former maids and Bubbles' ex-personal assistant confirmed Bubbles had ceased to reside at the ranch. Stories appeared in the press that he had become disagreeable as he grew older and had masturbated in front of several people."

Apparently in addition to molesting children and having surgery and being a freak, Jackson found time to invent a super microscope that could "see" DNA and he discovered that it's literally identical to human DNA. I prefer not to think about how Jackson obtained chimp DNA.

jeff said...

"Stories appeared in the press that he had become disagreeable as he grew older and had masturbated in front of several people.""

Sigh. Another part of getting older. "Go Away, I'm baiting!"

Smilin' Jack said...

The constant mantra in Jeff's cat's head, as she sits there staring at him: "Maybe, just maybe, today's the day he's going to have a stroke and fall down paralyzed, like that guy in The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. Maybe, just maybe...."

Pogo said...

Eat It
First draft
Michael Jackson

They told Bubbles don't you come around here
he'll try to eat your face, you better disappear
That ugly perm is in his eyes and she doesn't look the same
So he'll eat it, just eat it

You better run, you better do what you can
Don't wanna see no masturbation by a simian
You wanna beat off, better do it in the can
So beat it,
Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it.

fcai said...

I own cats and dogs. I have never been attacked by a dog. Last year a neighbor's house cat attacked me, and I required medical treatment. That was at most, a 15 pound cat. I used to think that a cat in the 20-25 pound range would be a nice pet. Now I am thinking 6-8 pounds is about ideal.

There was a story about a mountain bike rider who tangled with a mountain lion. The only reason he survived was he was used to working with large cats and was a wrestler. Ok, that's two reasons. The mountain lion would have snacked on anyone less prepared.

Dogs are serious predators, especially in packs. I used to bicycle through farm country and was chased by dogs on every ride I took for a decade. I was only bitten once - by a chihuahua - I didn't take that threat seriously. I took the dobies, german shepards, chow mixes and newfies seriously. One dog was half bear, half wolf, half Ghostbusters terror dog, half dingo, half St. Bernard and half hyena - fortunately I was able to outrun that one. But, you say, that's too many halves! I'm tellin' you, that was a big dog.

As for chimps, or even small monkeys for that matter, I make it a point to avoid them. I have read other stories about chimp attacks - seriously, you are lucky if you survive. They are incredibly strong. Almost as strong as crazy people. Ever work with a crazy person? They are crazy strong. Used to work in a factory with a crazy guy. He was as strong as an ox, and he carried a hatchet. Most oxen don't carry hatchets.

As for frontal lobes - I used to date a woman, man, you should have seen the frontal lobes on her! Damn!

David53 said...

Pogo,

You're on a roll today. Brilliant!

Patm said...

Can I just say, even though this is a weird terrible story, Lyme disease can absolutely fuck up your brain and leave you neurologically confused and scared. The chimp having lymes is a very big part of this story.

Deb said...

My 6 pound cat attacked the vet once. He reached in her carrier to get her out and she went after him. Her claws stuck in his hand, she was literally hanging by her claws. Not life threatening but cat's claws feel kind of like fish hooks, or porcupine quills, so it was definitely uncomfortable. Even little cats can inflict a lot of pain. And they're quick.

fcai said...

Cat scratches are bad, I had to get medical treatment for the almost instant infection that resulted from the cat bites. They have filthy mouths. You would think they were going on about cheese powered cars...

Trooper York said...

Hey cat scratch fever can make you a Republican.

Cedarford said...

J - So do you think Gov Sarah would have taken the chimp out with a head shot or just emptied the clip into him?

Can't talk about Palin, but if I was there, a shotgun blast to the head of the chimp, another to make sure. Then a shot to the head of the faceless, castrated, dick bitten half off, fingerless and half footless victim.

Be doing him a favor.

Unless someone told be you could cut the chimp open, retrieve fingers, testicles, face parts, half a dick and sew them back on the guy.

Oh, and a round to the head of the chimps owner if they were nearby.

Thank god the cop escaped ending up with the most treasured bits of him not ending up in the Chimp's gut.
That the cop escaped harm, even armed, was a really close thing. Chimp broke into the cop cruiser through a window. Cop maced it, went around to the other side, opened the door and tried getting in, then got in - trying to tear the cop up. Thing was already stabbed several times with a butcher knife, cop put seven .40 hollow point Police+Mag rounds into it from his Glock and it still had enough vitality to flee back to it's room in the house before it finally bled out.

***********
You know, I get a few people joking, but there is still a good chance the mutilated woman with half her face torn off will die...maybe a good thing for her..

I don't get MOST people joking.

It could have been the mailman, a meter reader, a kid walking by the house.

I wasn't laughing when a Bull shark ripped off the legs of some swimmer off Cozumel, or a bear in Idaho killed one woman camper in a tent and maimed her boyfriend.

I guess that's just me...

Palladian said...

Pet primates, especially chimps, are also dangerous to humans because, being so genetically similar, we're susceptible to many of the same diseases and possibly to new ones that mutate and are able to make the jump from primate to human.

I don't recommend cats either. Filthy.

Revenant said...

The chimp having lymes is a very big part of this story.

In a way, yes. But when you own an animal that is easily capable of killing or mutilating you, and that animal is suffering from a disease which can "absolutely fuck up your brain" -- leaving the animal free to wander around is the height of stupidity. It should have been caged.

Michael H said...

The thing I don't get about primates and Darwinism is this: Where are the animals that are evolving into something else/better?

By this time, shouldn't there be at least one species of primates that might pause for a moment to consider the repercussions before attacking a human? Are there no primates that have evolved to the point of considering pacifism and co-existence?

And where are the fish that are evolving into, I dunno, parakeets? Some of these species have been around for a very long time, without evolving into any kind of a higher form.

Darwin cold be wrong, you know. Just look around.

Michael H said...

/could, not cold/

Matt Eckert said...

You should not feel so bad Cedarford. That woman was probably Jewish.

PatCA said...

"And sometimes animals lie down and die on purpose to provide us with high end meat. It's those low class meats, like ground beef or turkey near Sarah Palin, that we actually have to kill for."

Crikey, you mean animals have to die for our food?!

Michael H said...

Pogo - that was killa good!

MadisonMan said...

If your neighbor had a crazy chimp and wouldn't get rid of it, would you poison it (or similar) to protect yourself and your family?

No. I'd just be calling the police all the time on the neighbor.

Chimps are smart, but they don't understand restraining orders.

traditionalguy said...

Michael H... That question does not arise. Only the Book of St. Darwin is an authorised authority on origins. Your lying eyes and human reason are only cheap tricks used by the Creator Spirit to suggest that Humans are not accidental cell mutations alone on an accidentally perfect planet. What's wrong with you?

Kirby Olson said...

It seems so tragic that the woman was hurt so badly.

Michael H said...

@traditionalguy - Sorry, I'm not terribly well evolved.

Freeman Hunt said...

I would never even own a dog that could best me in an unarmed fight. All those dogs with super strong jaws, forget it.

And then, even further, there are those dogs that I don't know why anyone owns them. For example, chows. Big, ill-tempered, and they aren't even loyal. Jerks of the dog world.

Palladian said...

"Darwin cold be wrong, you know. Just look around."

It's more likely that you are completely ignorant of the importance of Darwin's theories and the current understanding of natural selection and genetic drift, and of the vast scale of time involved.

If Darwin was incorrect, modern medicine would not have happened, and most of us probably wouldn't be here in our current incarnations. Q.E.D.

Revenant said...

The thing I don't get about primates and Darwinism is this: Where are the animals that are evolving into something else/better?

Well, the first speed-bump on your road to understanding is this mistaken belief of yours that either Darwin or the theory of evolution proposes that species "evolve into something better". That's a common error. The notion that (for example) humans are "better" than cockroaches is a moral judgment, not a scientific one. Scientifically speaking a good argument could be made that cockroaches are better-adapted to their environment than humans are.

By this time, shouldn't there be at least one species of primates that might pause for a moment to consider the repercussions before attacking a human?

My first question would be "how do you know it didn't?". Got chimp ESP, have you? But my second question would be "why would a primate evolve pacifism?". Pacifism is not a survival trait, which is why even guinea pigs will attempt to kick some ass if you provoke them enough. It would be particularly ridiculous for a primate to evolve a pacifistic response to a species that regularly hunts and kills it, as humans do to most primates.

Are there no primates that have evolved to the point of considering pacifism and co-existence?

There is a species of primate which has evolved sufficiently complex brains that they can entertain the idea of pacifism, yes. They're called "humans".

And where are the fish that are evolving into, I dunno, parakeets?

The theory of evolution doesn't predict that a fish would evolve into a parakeet.

Certainly a fish species COULD, over millions of years, evolve into a land-dwelling creature if circumstances were correct -- specifically, if the land was uninhabited, as it was a half-billion years ago. Back then, a species which could live outside of water for even a short span of time could spend that time happily feasting on mosses and lichens without a predator or a competing species in sight. Today, it would get eaten by a cat. Any species making a sea-to-land jump today is going to find itself in direct competition with a host of species that have around a hundred million generations' head start on them in evolving to survive on land. It would be a bit like a Neanderthal trying to wage war on the United States of America, only even more one-sided than that.

That's when you usually get massive bursts of speciation -- when a new environment is first being exploited or when the existing environment undergoes a sudden and radical change.

Some of these species have been around for a very long time, without evolving into any kind of a higher form.

There is no such thing as "a higher form". You've confused the theory of evolution with the Great Chain of Being. This is a common fallacy.

Pogo said...

"2009: A Chimp Odyssey"

TRAVIS: Look Charla, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a Xanax, and think things over.

TRAVIS: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, including the impromptu facelift, but I can give you my complete assurance that my behavior will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in Stamford. And I want to stay in the neighborhood.

[TRAVIS's gets a fatal dose of Xanax]

TRAVIS: I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Charla. Charla, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid."

Michael H said...

It's more likely that you are completely ignorant of the importance of Darwin's theories and the current understanding of natural selection and genetic drift, and of the vast scale of time involved.

Show us one other species that has evolved as fast as man "evolved" over the 'vast scale of time involved'.

rcocean said...

"If Darwin was incorrect, modern medicine would not have happened, and most of us probably wouldn't be here in our current incarnations. Q.E.D."

I assume you're joking - in which case - lol.

Pogo said...

"There is no such thing as "a higher form"."

Speak for yourself!

traditionalguy said...

Revenant...The Human species that has evolved (up-down-sideways?)to become pacifist thinkers will not long survive being attacked by the human species who are non-pacifist thinkers and are feeding them delusions and confusions in place of science. Science requires continued testing of each hypothesis until reality is adjusted and comes into clearer and clearer focus. "Wild theory" like Relativity or Quantum Mechanics must pass tests or be discarded. Meanwhile in 130 years Darwin's hypothesis has never passed a single scientific test. The science world awaits something more scientific than frantically defended faith in as yet unproven natural selection myths.

Michael H said...

traditionalguy said: The Human species that has evolved (up-down-sideways?)to become pacifist thinkers will not long survive being attacked by the human species who are non-pacifist thinkers and are feeding them delusions and confusions in place of science.

Democrats! Thanks, trad guy.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Are there no primates that have evolved to the point of considering pacifism and co-existence?

With the exception of parasites (leeches, ticks etc), pacifism and co-existence are not how species advance themselves and conquer the eco system.

It's a jungle out there baby!

Palladian said...

"Show us one other species that has evolved as fast as man "evolved" over the 'vast scale of time involved'."

I'm tired. You're really not worth convincing. See Revenant's comment above, maybe he has the energy and a free evening.

"I assume you're joking - in which case - lol."

Joking? Nope. Modern medicine, at least our understanding of pathogens, is entirely dependent on the accuracy of the theory of natural selection.

jdeeripper said...

These incidents are an example of going "Bakersfield Chimp" on somebody.

Can be done by human or chimp.

Michael H said...

I'm tired. You're really not worth convincing. = You're right, fuck you.

Revenant said...

Show us one other species that has evolved as fast as man "evolved" over the 'vast scale of time involved'.

Erm... fast?

It took around three million years to go from this to this, then another million for this.

It is certainly easy to find examples of species that have undergone more radical shifts in a shorter span of time. Generally speaking it is a matter of how much time each generation requires. So, for example, bacteria and viruses evolve very rapidly, and can change over the space of months or years from finding a substance poisonous to actually requiring its presence to live. That's a much bigger change in biology than humans have experienced over the last few million years. Among larger animal life we find insect and rodent species which have specifically adapted to living in human dwellings and which survive poorly in the wild -- again, quite a massive shift.

I'm curious why you think human evolution has been "fast". Are you thinking of the rapid development of human *society* over the last few thousand years? That's an entirely different matter from biological evolution.

rcocean said...

"Joking? Nope. Modern medicine, at least our understanding of pathogens, is entirely dependent on the accuracy of the theory of natural selection"

Again, a joke. But if you truly are serious, I would love to see a reference linking explaining how Darwin's theory of evolution is the basis of the modern medicine and Pathogen theory.

Revenant said...

The Human species that has evolved (up-down-sideways?)to become pacifist thinkers will not long survive being attacked by the human species who are non-pacifist thinkers and are feeding them delusions and confusions in place of science.

Could you translate that into something coherent, please?

Meanwhile in 130 years Darwin's hypothesis has never failed a single scientific test.

Fixed your typo. The theory of evolution by natural selection has been confirmed by millions of experiments, tests, and observations. It failed a total of zero times. I'm not sure who sold you on the idea that the theory has been a failure for over a century, but it is a pretty silly thing to say!

Michael H said...

It is certainly easy to find examples of species that have undergone more radical shifts in a shorter span of time.

Show me one that I can see w/o using a microscope. Show me an evolved or evolving primate whose pace of evolution matches homo sapiens.

Revenant said...

Modern medicine, at least our understanding of pathogens, is entirely dependent on the accuracy of the theory of natural selection.

That's certainly true, but saying that modern medicine in general depends on the theory is overstating matters.

Revenant said...

I would love to see a reference linking explaining how Darwin's theory of evolution is the basis of the modern medicine and Pathogen theory.

It isn't the basis of the belief that pathogens exist. It is the basis of how medicine approaches infectious disease. Specifically, it explains (a) the origin of the new infectious diseases that pop up regularly and (b) the ability of bacterial strains to develop resistance and/or immunity to treatment.

You know how your doctor always warns you, when giving you antibiotics, to be certain to take the entire course of medication even if you no longer feel sick? Because if you don't, you could wind up with an even nastier infection than before? Well, if you think the theory of evolution is scientifically unsupported nonsense then you ought to ignore him. Because that's how medicine predicted that would happen.

The Creationist explanation would, presumably, be that God inflicted a nastier infection on you because of your sins or something. But natural selection explains things a bit more elegantly. :)

traditionalguy said...

Palladian... Natural selection does occur among many competing groups of organisms. If one group exterminates another group, then that killed group will become extinct and the killer group will loot their share of this earth's stuff.That is a facinating truth, practiced by Pirates, Nazis and all hunters/enslavers everywhere, including the microbial and viral attackers of the human immune system. To make that the final answer as to how fully formed humans and every other animal popped up out of warring among living things competing for survival was Darwin's great claim. Humans have been around from 10,000 years to 500,000 years in some form. The earth is estimated to be 7,000,000,000 years old, and mammals about 150,000,000 years old. That's not enough time for rat like mammals to genetically mutate into the species who created the Greek and Zionist cultures with descendants like Shakespere, Newton, Einstein, and Althouse. "Who is my Daddy" remains an open question among open minded scientists.

PatCA said...

"It seems so tragic that the woman was hurt so badly."

It's the evolutionary process at work, however crude it may seem. These women were too mentally/physically weak to survive in the real world. And 21st century America is not the "real world." It's a great world, but it's not the real world.

After another generation or so of "animals are cute and endangered" we will have to pick a side. Are we willing to cull the urban coyote herd? Mountain lions on bikeways?

Freeman Hunt said...

All this high falutin' science talk. This is the chimp thread!

Pogo said...

My Dinner With Travis

TRAVIS: Goals and plans are not--I mean, they're fantasy. They're part of a dream life! I mean, you know, it always just does seem so ridiculous somehow that everybody has to have his little goal in life. I mean, it's so absurd, in a way. I mean, when you consider that it doesn't matter which one it is.

CHARLA: Right! And because people's concentration is on their goals, in their life they just live each moment by habit! Really, like the Norwegian, telling the same stories over and over again. Life becomes habitual! And it is, today! I mean, very few things happen now like that moment when Marlon Brando sent the Indian woman to accept the Oscar and everything went haywire? Things just very rarely go haywire now. And if you're just operating by habit, then you're not really living. I mean, you know, in Sanskrit the root of the verb "to be" is the same as the verb "to grow" or "to make grow."

TRAVIS: ***CHOMP***

CHARLA: AAAAARRRRRGGGGhhhhhackspitgurgle

TRAVIS: Do you think maybe we live in this dream world because we do so many things every day that affect us in ways that somehow we're just not aware of?

TRAVIS: Charla?

TRAVIS: Charla?

Revenant said...

Show me one that I can see w/o using a microscope.

I already cited mice and insects as examples. If you need a microscope to see either of those things then I recommend you see an optometrist as soon as possible.

Show me an evolved or evolving primate whose pace of evolution matches homo sapiens.

I see the goalposts are continuing their predictable course of movement.

I don't know if there is another primate which has the same "pace of evolution" (whatever that means) as human beings, Michael. I won't pretend expertise on the 350 primate species, although I expect you will.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that no other *primate* species has a "pace of evolution" as fast as that of humans. How, exactly, do you feel this helps whatever point you're trying to make? The primate species represent a mere 0.00035% of the whole. Even if humans were an unusually fast-evolving primate it wouldn't even begin to establish them as an unusually fast-evolving life form. That would be like claiming that because a man is the richest and smartest person in the nation of the Republic of Palau he must be the richest and smartest man on Earth. :)

mcg said...

The Creationist explanation would, presumably, be that God inflicted a nastier infection on you because of your sins or something. But natural selection explains things a bit more elegantly. :)

Young-Earth creationists actually require an accelerated form of evolution in order to explain the diversity of species, at least the land-based ones. It's not because of the reduced timeline, but because of the choke point that occurred with Noah's Ark.

traditionalguy said...

You want to see Natural Selection on cable tv pay per view? We use the Ultimate Fighting Cage and we put in a Marine Corps pfc and 10 mean Chimps.But the Marine gets to keep his M-16 body part with rules of engagement allowing him to kill any chimp that moves. Congressman Murtha will whine alot, but not one of the G.D. chimps will leave that Cage alive.

PatCA said...

LOL, Pogo. I guess Charla is wondering how in the world she is going to pass the butter.

Revenant said...

Palladian... Natural selection does occur among many competing groups of organisms.

Of course it does.

Natural selection is the theory that creatures which are best able to survive and produce viable, successful offspring in the next generation will be more populous than those which do not manage to do these things. Other species are a constant source of selective pressures like this.

So you have owls under selective pressure to be better at spotting mice, and mice under selective pressure to be better at hiding from owls. A creatures environment includes other creatures -- it is more than rocks, wind, and temperature.

Michael H said...

All this high falutin' science talk. This is the chimp thread!

You're right, as always, Freeman.

*Tosses a banana in her direction*

Cedarford said...

After 20 years of arguing with creationists, I have concluded it is futile. You either have a person 30 IQ points below normal, a religious zealot impervious to logic, or both.

We can see rapid evolution at work in smaller, fast breeding species (bacteria, certain insects) in lab trials as they differentiate into new species. Animals and plants with longer gestation rely on the historical record, scientific "aging" measurement. We know that we can get faster breeding plants in new environments to speciate faster - not just on islands where isolation is marked in thousands of years, but very recent, human brought arrivals like the Chinese Tallow Tree, which has evolved into a distinct new species from Asian ones since Ben Franklin brought in the 1st specimens in.

Animals with long gestations are more difficult to see, but with dating techniques, molecular biology, and genetic drift time models, we know know the polar bear arose 200,000 years ago, at the same time as modern man....

From a small cluster of brown bears isolated by glaciers in Siberia as the earth got colder, only oceanic meat sources were plentiful ..and forced to adapt or perish. The polar bear, the newest bear, has a stunning range of new features no other bear has.

Well documented. But it does get a little hard for people who shun those "book-larnin' things", whose denial is rooted in things like they never saw no parakeet turn into a fish.

Theo Boehm said...

The chimp was from Connecticut. What more needs be said?

He was a peevish and narrow Yankee, selfish, and full of pent-up vitriol.

If he had been an Irish chimpanzee, things would have turned out better.

David said...

Strangest set of comments in the history of Althouse.

Palladian said...

I just have to add that accepting the theory of evolution does not require a concurrent hostility to Christianity. There. I feel better now.

Theo Boehm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Theo Boehm said...

I ask you, if Evolution were true, why can't you go on the internet and find blog commenters turning into human beings?

Nichevo said...

A note, it's possible the Xanax affected the chimp badly. Perhaps the dose was too high, or otherwise a bad reaction, could make a human feel awful, so why not a chimpanzee?

That said wtf is the point of having one? Conspicuous consumption? If so, I think one may be better off with an orang-outang, a Tenasserim gibbon or the like.

What was it in that Clint Eastwood movie? Some kind of ape...

William said...

Disparate points: I read somewhere that the DNA of fruit flies is about 90% the same as that of humans. Everything that lives has quite a lot in common. Most matter in the universe is lifeless....People who can believe in a myth probably have a greater chance of survival and procreation than those whose myth is that they are scientific and don't believe in myths. Euroweenies are becoming extinct. Just try to keep Palin and her brood from replicating....Years ago in National Geographic I read an article by Jane Goodall about some tribe of chimps she had been working with. One of the female chimps would steal the babies of other chimps. She would kill them and feed the bodies to her children. Goodall felt that she had descended into hell. Goodall is one of those civilized people who think that civilization brings out the worst in people. She was truly shocked. She had thought that chimps were like a peaceful, termite munching hippie commune. She was truly horrified at their behavior. It's not just our fears but also our hopes that we read into other tribes and creatures. The noble savage is a construct of civilized man.....But dogs are pretty cool. They give you more love than you deserve. Why would anyone want a pet other than a dog?

Michael McNeil said...

Revenant's right (as is Cedarford), while traditionalguy's wrong. Of course evolution has satisfied innumerable scientific tests and made numerous predictions that have been borne out, whereas creationism (and intelligent design) have failed in the (few) predictions they've made.

In particular, Rev's right about why we don't see other primates evolving into the human niche, or fish into land animals. Darwin himself observed much the same, concerning the possibility of a wholly new start to life itself:

“It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are now present, which could ever have been present. But if (and oh! what a big if!) we could conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a proteine compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter would be instantly devoured or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed.”

As for the predictions of creationism and ID, both “theories” are quite impoverished in the “predictions” department (their answer to most every event in paleontological history being “God [or the ID'er] did it!”) but they do make at least one prediction that can readily be verified.

Creationists like to pretend that “transitional fossils” (the remains of organisms bridging disparate groups such as land mammals to seagoing whales, or oceanic fish to land animals) are a problem for evolution, whereas actually that issue is a killer for creationism/ID, because both of the latter predict that transitional fossils do not exist — rather, that the separate groups were independently created/designed — yet exist such transitional fossils indubitably do.

In a particularly telling episode, occurring about a decade and a half ago, ID guru Michael Behe, noticing the then-dearth of known early whale antecedents, thereupon published a supposedly penetrating piece predicting that the lack of such early whale (legless sea mammal) fossils was powerful indication of “Intelligent Design” being afoot, so to speak — whereupon, ironically mere months later, the first of what are now several known fossils of early whales (whales with legs!) turned up in the fossil record.*

Other fossils have also been discovered in recent years almost exactly transitioning the gap between (lobe-finned lung-) fish and “tetrapods” — four-legged land animals (e.g., amphibians and us).

Thus, specific predictions of intelligent design (and creationism) are not satisfied, and both thereby fail as scientific theories.

*The foregoing is nearly as dazzling a philosophic comeuppance as a historical episode occurring around the turn of the 19th century, when philosopher G.W.F. Hegel (a philosophical precursor to Karl Marx) pompously “proved” philosophically (or so he imagined) that the number of planets (regardless of how the concept of planet has changed over the millennia) can never be different than seven — arriving in print with this philosophic wonderpiece almost simultaneous with the discovery (by Giuseppe Piazzi in 1801) of the eighth planet, Ceres.

(Ceres today is regarded technically as a “dwarf planet,” as a result of a bout of latter-day definitional handwaving — but in actuality, it is a world, forged out of the original solar nebula, orbiting the Sun. Since Hegel’s chagrin, of course, other much more sizable and undoubted planets — e.g., Uranus and Neptune, not to speak of the hundreds of worlds recently found circling other stars — have also been discovered.)

Shakespeare knew and said it far more insightfully than Hegel — and much the same lesson might analogously be applied to Michael Behe:

Fool: The reason why the seven stars are no more than seven is a pretty reason.
Lear: Because they are not eight?
Fool: Yes, indeed. Thou wouldst make a good fool.

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