February 17, 2009

Make a presentation that provokes your teacher to call you a "fascist bastard"...

... and, instead of giving you a grade, to say "Ask God what your grade is."

47 comments:

mcg said...

A professor who acts like an asshole?
What next, students drinking alcohol?
:-)

Diamondhead said...

I can't help but wonder if the professor's response would have been the same if the student's last name had been Arabic (Muslim) instead of Latino (Catholic).

Chris said...

Aren't there tons of famous stories about certain Professors calling students idiots and whatnot. I always heard that Karl Popper was notorious and feared. I always liked the scene in The Paperchase where the Professor gives the student a dime (or was it a nickel) and tells him to call his mom.

traditionalguy said...

The same sex marriage freedom so ruthlessly stolen from gay people for 10,000+ years must be avenged by destruction of the speech freedoms of still surviving Judeo-Christianists. Does anyone see that attitude as just another excuse to attack Religious People's right to express their faith? The Gay Rights issue is the point of thr spear. The establishment of a new World Religion to replace Judeo-Christian traditions is the goal.If they take away your free speech YOU ARE DEFEATED.Our remaining political right to freely express our scriptural faith tradition is the actual reason the USA is under constant constant attack, from within and from without. From the Globaloney Warming scam,to the destruction of the US currency/banking system, to the Environmental God to whom we now sacrifice our opportunity to obtain wealth, to the sudden disappearance of real investigative journalism, the end being sought is the destruction of the Judeo-Christian's Freedom of Speech in the USA. Words sure are powerful.

downtownlad said...

I pray every day that traditionalguy's son turns out to be a faggot and drops dead of AIDS.

downtownlad said...

But the wingnuts think it is perfectly ok to expel a student simply because he's gay.

downtownlad said...

The Constitution never mentions that people have "the right to a Grade in a college class".

Original intent.

ricpic said...

It's heresy to try to argue a point with the downtownloads of this world.

downtownlad said...

I'm just pointing out contradictions.

Colleges that receive Federal money have expelled students, solely for being gay. Those actions are supported 100% by Republicans.

And now they have a cow because a professor exercised his right of free speech when a student gives a dumb-ass presentation.

I don't see anyone's freedom being curtailed here. It's the teacher's classroom, and the teacher can run it as he sees fit. The student is free to take another class.

I'm not agreeing with what the teacher did - he sounds obnoxious. But then again - I'm not being inconsistent like the Republican wingnuts are.

downtownlad said...

Here's some info on the gay student being expelled.

100% of Republicans in this country supported the action of this school.

downtownlad said...

Link -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12394904

AlphaLiberal said...

Ha ha. Sarah Palin's daughter, raised and taught by Sarah, says that abstinence is "is not realistic at all."

What kind of value system is Sarah Palin teaching her kids?

Clyde said...

The correct answer is, "God says give me an A, asshole." If you're going down, might as well go in a blaze of glory. And who knows, maybe the asshole professor has an apopleptic fit, if you're lucky.

traditionalguy said...

Downtownlad... I am encouraged that you pray everyday. That is the use of words and that makes you powerful. God Bless You.

Curtiss said...

downtownlad said...I'm just pointing out contradictions.

True. Just not the ones you intend.

Psychedelic George said...

From a bio of the professor...

John Matteson, Speech, ForensicsJohn is one of the coaches who, along with the forensics director Ken Sherwood, has helped guide the debate team to national prominence. During his seven years as an adjunct instructor at LACC, he also taught Speech 101(Public Speaking) and some of the ESL classes. He received his bachelor’sfrom USC and his M.A. from Cal State LA. His master’s was in Speech Com-munications. While at City, no debate team has been out of the top five finishes in the CEDA and NDT tournaments. In addition, many former LACC debaters havetransferred with scholarships to four-year institutions.

Prior to teaching at City, John spent ten years as a part-timer at Moorpark College, where he taught Speech classes and assisted the Forensics coach as well. While at this college, he helped the debate team win a couple of Phi Rho Pi national championships.John has been married for 17 years to his lovely wife, Suzanne, and has twochildren, ages nine and two.

He can be found at Ratemyprofessors.com

John Matteson's Scorecard:

No. of Ratings: 31
Average Easiness: 4.2
Average Helpfulness: 3.7
Average Clarity: 3.8
Hotness Total: 0
Overall Quality: 3.8

Psychedelic George said...

I should add the Professor Althouse is also rated by her students, one of whom calls her an "emu...a flightless bird who does not understand copyright laws."

Host with the Most said...

Read everything linked, but still don't know enough to form a final opinion.

The hypotheticals are all flying pretty well, though.

Christy said...

That the Co-Director of Forensics at L.A. City College resorts to an ad hom attack on a student whose opinions he finds odious says much about the quality of that program. That they are nationally recognized suggests the competition isn't great. Where? Where can we find reasoned debate? Too funny for words to my mind. (That this is an ad hominem comment hasn't escaped my notice.)

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

Colleges that receive Federal money have expelled students, solely for being gay

100% of Republicans in this country supported the action of this school.


Bullshit. Prove it. I'm registered Republican and never heard of this much less approved or disaproved. Believe it or not, the majority of people don't give a rip about your sexuality or anybody else's as long as you do your job and mind your own business.

There are a lot of reasons to be expelled from college. Being a distracting disruptive asshole could be one of them. Being soley gay...not so much.

Salamandyr said...

It seems to me that the teacher has a professional obligation to grade a student's work, and to grade it according to the parameters of the assignment, not on whether he agrees with the content. This was a speech class, so I imagine the parameters were along the lines of "did the student make a convincing case" and "did the student support his assertions with facts", as well as "did the student use proper grammar in delivering his speech". In no speech class was part of the grade dependent on "having opinions in line with the teacher". Heck, a good debater is expected to argue either side of the argument.

I don't really see a First Amendment violation here, but I do think the teacher violated his professional obligations in a way that was tortious. By way of comparison, imagine mechanic who takes my money, and agrees to fix my car. When he sees the vehicle, he accuses me of sponsoring genocide, encourages others to attack me, and also refuses to refund my money, all because the car I drive happens to be an SUV. I think we'd all agree I'd have a case.

As for the teachers assertion that the Establishment Clause somehow limits the actions of a student; that is just ignorant, and I am grateful the teacher's subject is speech, and not law. His grasp of his own subject is tenuous, at best.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

because a professor exercised his right of free speech when a student gives a dumb-ass presentation.

A professor should be able to critique the student's performance and make suggestions on how to better make his/her presentation. The student should also be able to accept legitimite criticism as this is part of the learning process.

This does NOT give the professor the liberty to be grossly insulting, discriminatory, rude, belittling and obnoxious. The professor is not at liberty to denigrate students based on their religion, ethnicity, sexuality or political persuasion.

I think that we have just seen the loss of the 'professional' part of being a professor when the teacher acts in such a manner. He should be fired since he is incapable of keeping his personal predjudices out of the classroom.

Trooper York said...

That's why we should eliminate teachers altogether. Just set the kids up with computers and attach electrodes to their genitals to shock them when they give the wrong answers. I think that will be much more effective.

Host with the Most said...

Let's follow dtl's logic and help him out here:

The Constitution never mentions that people have "the right to a Grade in a college class".

Dtl's prescription for this student is that the student is free to take another class.

Now take dtl's complaint about the gay student being expelled from a Baptist college that receives money from students who get grants and loans from the government.

The Constituion does not prescribe limitations on the college for reciving federal student aid funds. Congress can and does. And if Congress has not chosen to force private religious colleges to violate their philosphies, then the colleges are free to act accordingly.

So, knowing this and knowing the college's philosophy, why the hell would a gay student seek to go to that Baptist college?

Stupidity?
Arrogance?
Identity Insecurity?

Why do people like dtl try to use the law to impose their views on the rest of us?

Christy said...

When I took public speaking classes we had to give a speech for each of the 4 basic types of talk: to persuade, to inform, to entertain, to teach. Sounds like this was a speech to persuade and the professor failed to clearly articulate how the speech failed in its objective. (The recursive can keep me entertained for hours. I'm like a kitten that way.)

Ann Althouse said...

"I should add the Professor Althouse is also rated by her students, one of whom calls her an "emu...a flightless bird who does not understand copyright laws.""

Copyright laws, eh? What do you think are the chances the people who trash me there are my real students as opposed to snakelike internet anti-Althousians? I'd say about 99%. I don't teach copyright at all, so obviously, they are mad about my blog. And frankly, I think an emu can rip your guts out. No need to fly.

Lawgiver said...

That's why we should eliminate teachers altogether. Just set the kids up with computers and attach electrodes to their genitals to shock them when they give the wrong answers. I think that will be much more effective.

Only if the computers are solar powered and properly recycled if the student graduates.

Shanna said...

100% of Republicans in this country supported the action of this school.

You are so full of shit. This statement alone demonstrates that.

Joe said...

A religious college has students sign an agreement that they will not be sexually active outside of marriage. A student violates that agreement and is expelled. Where is the issue?

As Host points out, why would a person who has no intention of following a private school's moral code go to that school? (The same things goes with religion; I've never understood the obsessiveness of certain people, including gays, but also alcoholics and even atheists, insist they be allowed to be full members of religions which find their behaviors and beliefs anathema.)

Joe said...

This is pure hypocrisy on behalf of the college and the teacher. Apparently academic freedom and the right to say unpopular things extends only to liberal viewpoints. (So DTL is allowed to say he wishes someone else's child dies, but anyone who opposes same-sex marriage is evil and to be shouted down. And he wonders why many otherwise open minded people are voting against same-sex marriage.)

TMink said...

"I pray every day that traditionalguy's son turns out to be a faggot and drops dead of AIDS."

Exactly what I expect of you.

Pray instead for salvation for yourself, and a modicum of tolerence and kindness. God will likely answer that prayer if you let Him.

Trey

Daryl said...

Downtownlad, I'm on the faculty hiring committee at Los Angeles City College, and I am very impressed with your credentials and professorly demeanor. We are hiring--are you interested?

Revenant said...

I think religion is silly, gay marriage is a great idea, and the supporters of Prop 8 were in the wrong.

All of that being said, if this story is true the professor should be summarily fired. He's paid to do a job and didn't do it; end of discussion.

TMink said...

Yeah Rev, but you think about things. 8)

We cannot expect everyone here to do that apparently.

Trey who loves the Lord, opposes gay marriage and voted agin it but loves Revenant enough to actually type out his full name for once

Duscany said...

When I was in college composition 40 years ago my professor assigned us to write about gun control. "I don't care what side you take," he told us. "You will be graded on how well you make your case."

Nowadays other students (and their professors) think they have a right not to be offended by anything anyone else ever says.

Revenant said...

"I don't care what side you take," he told us. "You will be graded on how well you make your case."

They told us that twenty years ago, too. I didn't believe it then, either. My advice, then and now, is to never contradict what the professor is saying until you've gotten your grade.

You've got your whole life to learn things. College is mostly just about getting the diploma and making the social contacts.

jeff said...

Hey, I am a Republican, what was it that I 100% approve of again? DTL getting kicked out of school? Hey, truthfully, I am not losing sleep over it. And venturing into the land of made up statistics, 100% of the other gay students were for it also. Bummer DTL. I guess no one like you. And your mother dresses you funny. Brought to you by Carl Jr's.

jeff said...

"I don't care what side you take," he told us. "You will be graded on how well you make your case."

25 years ago. Wrote my paper supporting the death penalty. Got it back with a suggestion to work on it a bit more. Resubmitted my new paper opposing death penalty. Got a A. Was shocked, but what the hell. Now I know how to get a A.

John Burgess said...

Hey, I'm Republican, too, and I never heard of this made-up case until DTL popped off about it. I didn't support it because I didn't even know about it.

I expect an apology, DTL, else I'm siccing my lawyers on you for defamation.

jeff said...

was it a young chimp? Maybe Michael went for something himself and the chimp took his nose in self defense? Hmmm. DON'T JUDGE THE CHIMP!

jeff said...

Wow. totally wrong thread. But I like it there. Just like a DLT comment. Totally off topic. Will leave it there.

Big Mike said...

The professor called him a "fascist bastard"? Sound like the kid made his case, otherwise the professor would have had some more articulate response.

I'm 100% Republican, and I'm not at all happy with the college's response. It looks as though they're trying to cover their butt, not make the student whole.

BTW, DTL, Mr. Lopez paid for that class; I should think that contract law entitles him to his grade. Not that I'm a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

Palladian said...

"Let's follow dtl's logic..."

That's a foul, dark, sticky and twisted road, leading ultimately to nowhere.

blake said...

Yeah, isn't one of the time-honored rules of debating that if your opponent is reduced to ad homs, you win?

Seven Machos said...

Colleges that receive Federal money have expelled students, solely for being gay

This is true, of course, and easily proved, because virtually every college and university receives federal aid. The only notable academically serious exceptions are Grove City College and Hillsdale College. Therefore, any school that expelled a student for homosexuality, ever, fits.

The most obvious examples are the three military academies, as per the current policy.

All of that said, Downtown is a raving fucking idiot. Everyone going into those schools knew the rules. In this case, either there were no rules, in which case common law assumptions of basic fair dealing would govern or, more likely, the school has a code that mandates academic integrity.

LA said...

I find it interesting that so many people felt qualified to comment on this incident with little to no actual information beyond the propaganda spouted by the ADF - who you should know by virtue of their job and reason for existing would misrepresent the facts to work toward their side of the issue.

A few bits of truth and fact: 1 - The professor did NOT call Lopez a fascist bastard. 2 - the assignment was to be an "informative" speech, not a persuasive - therefore as a student, Lopez should have received an "F" for not doing the assigned speech. 3 - Jonathan Lopez is well-known at LACC for being a disruptive influence. A year before this event, he was almost expelled and charged with assault for starting a fight with the student body president at a public debate. 4 - the majority of the students in the class asked the instructor to be excused from listening to Lopez' speech because they found it offensive and inappropriate for the course material. 5 - the dean's investigation proved that Lopez was unable to find a single other student in the class who was willing to corroborate his version of events. But all of the right-wingers who posted on this site are so ready to believe any story, no matter how false or outrageous, if it makes folks on the left look bad.