January 25, 2009

"Oprah is a liberal because she is black, Hitch is a liberal because he is atheist, and you are a liberal because you are gay.'

Andrew Sullivan posts a reader email that explains what Forbes was really — supposedly — doing, when it ranked the "The 25 Most Influential Liberals In The U.S. Media."

Here's his earlier post trying to reclaim his conservative cred after Forbes blew his cover.

101 comments:

Freeman Hunt said...

From his earlier post:

Not many liberals, I wager to say, endorsed Ron Paul for president for the GOP in the primaries.

Struck me as funny because I know of multiple liberals who supported Ron Paul. Why they did, I don't know. Revolution, man.

SMGalbraith said...

First blush response: I don't think Forbes (or anyone else) was calling Sullivan a liberal 10, or even 5, years ago.

I believe he was gay then too.

And I know a few (granted, anecdotal) liberal Republican types who endorsed Paul. And some (fewer) hardcore lefties as well.

Pastafarian said...

After his deranged assault on Palin and his support of a socialist for president, Sullivan still pretends to be conservative; and yet he states that "conservatism is degenerate" at the first link in your post.

So he must think that he's actually the only TRUE conservative remaining, and all the other people claiming to be conservative are confused. Interesting take.

Pastafarian said...

And speaking of Hitchens' liberalism: I don't know of too many commentators MORE liberal than Hitchens, as I understand liberalism. Hitchens' support for the war in Iraq was a direct and logical result of his liberalism -- he loathes the idea of an ultraconservative theocracy that executes apostates and gays and oppresses women.

How liberals ever fell into the trap of mindlessly opposing everything that Bush et al did, I'll never understand. This was a war that liberals should have supported from day one; and if it had been launched by a Democrat president, they almost certainly would have.

SMGalbraith said...

"conservatism is degenerate"

Yes, conservatism is degenerate to Sullivan (mainly) because of the issue of waterboarding or torture.

This coming from the same person who advocated abandoning Iraq even if genocide occurred.

Let's see: waterboarding terrorists is degenerate and immoral. Abandoning millions of Iraqis to the depredations of Al-Qaeda is fine.

Okay, perhaps we did need to leave Iraq at that time because we weren't able to secure the place and the cost was too high. But let's not kid ourselves, Andrew, about the moral consequences of such an action.

Far more consequential than pouring water over the faces of three terrorists.

Lem said...

Andrew is whatever the people in power are not.

john said...

I got through the first, admittedly persuasive, paragraphs of Andy's boni fides and was beginning to wonder if I (we) had really been too harsh on the boy. Then this -

The real truth is that many on the Republican right just read everything I write through an anti-gay prism, because their homophobia...

There he goes again, plainly reciting the first requirement for democrat membership: "I am a victim!".

And the bit about supporting Paul yet calling Palin the wackjob?

rcocean said...

I thought Sully supported Diversity! Forbes simply made sure the list had x number of approved minorities & women. If it hadn't Sully would have cried "homophobia" or "racism."

Sully is a liberal who spends his time attacking the right & Christianity and swooning over Obama. He just likes the "reasonable conservative" label because it gets him some TV face time.

ricpic said...

Is this supposed to be controversial? Blacks, homosexuals and confirmed secularists are reliable Democrat voters. Blacks vote for an ever expanding government because they are disproportionately the recipients of government largesse. Homosexuals vote for the privileging of homosexuals. Secularists vote against those dangerous bigoted Christians. All orthodox liberal positions.

Xmas said...

John,

Calling Palin a whack job...because she was a charismatic character that rallied the party's base even though she was underqualified for the position for which she was running.

It's called Projection John.

PS. I really don't think Palin was underqualified to be Vice President. I can understand the fear of McCain dying in office, but that wouldn't happen on day 1 of a McCain presidency.

John Althouse Cohen said...

"Hitch is a liberal because he is atheist,...

Writing for The Nation is also a giveaway.

Richard Fagin said...

There it is in print - the liberals' fundamental belief about conservatives - they're degenerate.

Reminds me of a spat I had with an uncle 30 odd years ago - he claimed Ronald Reagan hated black people. I asked him, "why, because he wants 'em all to have a job and make money?" Mr. know it all had no response for that, and I suspect neither does Andrew Sullivan. It's enough for liberals to just assert that conservtives are degenerate. You don't have to argue the merits when your opponent isn't even a civilized human being.

The fact that conservatives don't dismiss Sullivan with, "Well you're a faggot" probably drives him nuts.

sg said...

Sullivan: "She has no business being governor of Alaska, ..."

How is that a "conservative" position?

Aren't elections legitimizing, much less have consequences?

john said...

Xmas - we agree about Palin. Did you think otherwise?

SMGalbraith said...

Writing for The Nation is also a giveaway.

Yes, but Hitchens left The Nation about 5 years ago.

Somewhere along the line, Sullivan changed from a writer who was gay to a gay writer.

And since, for him (accurately so for the most part), the main obstacle preventing his vision of "gay America" from being achieved are the conservatives, he decided to wage war on them.

He must vilify and destroy them (Guantanamo is, he says "Bush's Gulag"), rhetorically, morally, intellectually. Otherwise, his gay America will never be achieved.

My hunch is that if the right was against harsh interrogation/waterboarding, he'd criticize them for their moral absolutism and religious extremism.

He'll grab any stick at any time.

Doyle said...

I think that's actually a pretty accurate insight.

m00se said...

Sully is a conservative in the same way that lots of people are libertarians - the "I want to do what I want, when I want, and I don't want anyone telling me no."

Oddly enough this sort of "conservatism" has blossomed with the rise of the nanny state, and the increasing alignment of liberalism with restrictions on behavior and speech.

To be honest, the new puritans are not the religious types, but the anti global warming, anti meat, anti oil, anti war, anti everything mainstream types who are more willing to be the scold than your Baptist neighbor.

Daryl said...

1 - Christopher Hitchens has always identified as a liberal. He supported the war in Iraq for liberal reasons (liberation of oppressed peoples from a fascist dictatorship).

For example, he's always shown waaay too much sympathy for Palestinians. Just like Andrew Sullivan does now that he's no longer a conservative.

2 - When has Oprah ever endorsed a Republican idea? She backed Obama and wouldn't even let McCain or Palin on her show until after the election.

SMGalbraith said...

Christopher Hitchens has always identified as a liberal.

Well, actually he was once a Trotskyite.

There's a setup line for someone to knock out of the park.

Scott said...

Sullivan was a big support of Iraq and Bush UNTIL Bush came out against gay marriage. At that point, Sullivan neatly pirouetted, and became anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-everythingassociatedwithconservatives, and his career was made.

The Crack Emcee said...

Scott,

I saw that same phenomena with some gay friends of mine: they liked Bush until the gay marriage issue cropped up.

Sullivan's nuts, and I can't fathom why he's given a platform, except his nuttiness has our attention.

SMGalbraith said...

they liked Bush until the gay marriage issue cropped up.

I think Sullivan expected Bush not only to lead (or help lead) the way to legal equality for gays (marriage, don't ask don't tell) but also for a sort of social equality.

He invested a great deal of emotional and intellectual capital in Bush and these expectations. And I think he also believed that he could draw American conservatism over to his views of homosexuality and conservatism (the anti-rationalism approach). That is, the two didn't need to be hostile to one another.

Once he realized that Bush was not an ally in his cause, and that conservatism could not (or would not) be re-configured into his vision, he decided to wage war on both of them. Sullivan's "gay America" requires, he's concluded, that conservatism be completely defeated.

He may not be a liberal; but he's certainly not an American conservative.

Fred4Pres said...

I am not sure it is that simple. Hitchens for example is liberal on somethings and rather (dare I say) Kissingeresque on others (sorry Hitch but it is true).

Bart DePalma said...

Hitchens is a old school Brit socialist before they went isolationist. He is a reminder that fighting fascism used to be chic on the left.

Oprah is your standard Hollywood leftist who happens to be black.

Sullivan is a rare breed of libertarian leftist, which means he is basically a confused blogging self contradiction. He is not a conservative.

peter hoh said...

I suspect that by applying the Forbes' criteria, one would have to conclude that Althouse is a liberal.

Palladian said...

"I suspect that by applying the Forbes' criteria, one would have to conclude that Althouse is a liberal."

We're All Liberals Now™

Synova said...

Hitchens is British isn't he? Liberal doesn't mean quite the same thing over there. Also, it seems, that quite a few of the "conservatives" over here are actually "conserving" classical liberalism while the "liberals" have moved on to something quite different.

Palladian said...

Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, fanatical, criminal...

Synova said...

Let's see: waterboarding terrorists is degenerate and immoral. Abandoning millions of Iraqis to the depredations of Al-Qaeda is fine.

It's simple.

Brown people don't exist at all until we are involved. Waterboarding three terrorist leaders is an action and we're damned for it. Abandoning millions to a terrible death (see SE Asia as an example) because we aren't *THERE* any longer, ceases to be our fault.

The people involved... the three terrorists vs. all of those suffering or dead in a civil war... their objective experience has no moral value *except* as the US is *directly* involved.

Ann Althouse said...

I love that song!

Palladian said...

"Also, it seems, that quite a few of the "conservatives" over here are actually "conserving" classical liberalism while the "liberals" have moved on to something quite different."

Don't they like to be called "Progressives" now? I've never understood how wanting to implement failed 19th century economic ideas (Marx) is "progress". I like to call them "regressives". Usually I call them "liberals" or so-called liberals. The liberalism I respect and admire is an idea in exile.

Palladian said...

"I love that song!"

No!!!!!

I have that song on my compilation of "Worst Songs Ever", though of course it's "Worst Songs Ever That You Like To Listen To", like "Muskrat Love" and "The Candy Man".

chuck b. said...

All we have to do is find ourselves a gay black athiest conservative, and we can stick a fork in that reader e-mail.

Pastafarian said...

Peter -- do you have any doubt that Althouse is primarily liberal?

Certainly everyone has liberal leanings on some issues and conservative leanings on others, but on most of the big issues, Althouse is clearly a liberal.

Particularly if you accept the premise that support of the Iraq war is perfectly consistent with liberalism, in that it's a war with the promise of replacing dictatorship with democracy, and preventing oppressive theocracy.

For Pete's sake, she voted for Obama, the left-most major candidate in either party, TWICE -- even in the primaries, when lined up against more conservative Democrats.

Ann Althouse said...

All that matters is liking it. Some mysterious mix came out right. There's no questioning it, Palladian. Did somebody send you away to teach you how to be sensible, logical, responsible, practical?

chuck b. said...

I cannot even begin to imagine a world where people are visually satisfied by that video. That song, like it or not, cries out for better visuals. The only good part is at 3:05 when dude blows the whistle-thingee.

Palladian said...

"Did somebody send you away to teach you how to be sensible, logical, responsible, practical?"

I wish.

Palladian said...

It made the list because he rhymes "respectable" and "vegetable". And because of the little early-video-game noise when he says "digital" at the end of the song. Oh and the saxophone. I hate jazzy saxophones.

Palladian said...

Shall I post my "Worst Songs Ever" playlist for you guys?

chuck b. said...

Shall I post my "Worst Songs Ever" playlist for you guys?

Duh!

Ann Althouse said...

Sure.

But these can't really be the worst songs, right? Because they are fun to hear!

Methadras said...

What a simpering, whiney pussy. I'd kick him in the balls if he had any.

As a side note, I knew many liberals who supported Ron Paul, even though I warned them not to, they did anyway. I asked them why and they all told me that it was because he was anti-war. I laughed at them and that laughter paid off with the percentage he garnered in the primaries.

Palladian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kev said...

I hate jazzy saxophones.

Well, Palladian, I guess I hate whatever you do for a living as well. ;-)

Don Meaker said...

Palin had a higher security clearance than Joe Biden, John McCain, or B.H. Obama. She had negotiated a natural gas pipeline with Canada, and was deeply read into security measures against frequent incursions from Russia. If McCain had won, and then died right after the election, the country would have been in good hands.

Now Joe Biden may now know what the Vice President does, but that he didn't after 30 years in the Senate shows a certain lack of seriousness on his part, and on the candidate that picked him.

Don Meaker said...

Waterboarding is not torture. The US performs it on US service members as part of their training. It does no permanent damage to the person.

Sully wants to redefine torture to include waterboarding just as he wants to redefine marriage to include couples of the same sex. Gay marriage? The benefits of marriage have been available to homosexuals for years. Gay men have married women, lesbian women have married men. Ref: Senator from Idaho.

Palladian said...

"But these can't really be the worst songs, right? Because they are fun to hear!"

Right. Just like The Logical Song, many are what I consider "bad songs" but also have something that makes them irresistible and unforgettable. Simply bad songs would not make an interesting list. There are also some songs on the list that are actually not fun to hear but are so egregiously awful that they deserve special attention. My criteria for inclusion is varied. Many are included for their terrible lyrics ("MacArthur Park", which I consider the worst song ever written - I currently have 70 versions of it). Some are included for their crude sexual or biological content ("(You're) Having My Baby"). Some are included for their hare-brained attempts to have a "message" (Indian Reservation) or their ham-handed attempts at philosophy ("I Am I Said") . Some are included because of their ludicrous production values ("The Candy Man" ) or their obnoxious performance ("Loving You", though this one fits into at least 3 other categories). Some are included because of their entirely inappropriate mawkish sentimentalism ("Honey"). Some are included for their amazing ability to be pernicious and tenacious irritants ("Coconut"). A couple are included for private, personal reasons. OK, here's my entirely subjective list of "The Worst Songs Ever":

"Afternoon Delight" — by the Starland Vocal Band
"Alone Again (Naturally)" — Gilbert O'Sullivan
"At Seventeen" — Janis Ian
"Brand New Key" — Melanie
"Brandy (You're A Fine Girl)" — Looking Glass
"The Candy Man" — Sammy Davis, Jr
"Coconut" — Harry Nilsson
"Da Ya Think I'm Sexy?" — Rod Stewart
"Dancing On The Ceiling" — Lionel Richie
"Escape (The PiƱa Colada Song)" — Rupert Holmes
"Feelings" — Morris Albert
"The Final Countdown" — Europe
"Get Up And Boogie" — Silver Convention
"Honey" — Bobby Goldsboro
"I Am I Said" — Neil Diamond
"I Am Woman" — Helen Reddy
"I Wanna Sex You Up" — Color Me Badd
"I Wear My Sunglasses At Night" — Corey Hart
"Indian Reservation (Cherokee Nation)" — Paul Revere & the Raiders
"The Logical Song" — Supertramp
"Loving You" — Minnie Riperton
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" — William Shatner
"MacArthur Park" — Richard Harris (or Donna Summer)
"Midnight At The Oasis" — Maria Muldaur
"The Morning After" — Maureen McGovern
"Muskrat Love" Captain and Tennille
"The Night Chicago Died" — Paper Lace
"One Tin Soldier (The Legend of Billy Jack)" — Coven
"Playground In My Mind" — Clint Holmes
"Seasons In The Sun" — Terry Jacks
"Shannon" — Henry Gross
"Sometimes When We Touch" — Dan Hill
"Sylvia's Mother" — Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show
"Think Of Laura" — Christopher Cross
"Total Eclipse of the Heart" — Bonnie Tyler
"Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" — Paul McCartney
"The Warrior" — Scandal featuring Patti Smyth
"We Built This City" — Starship
"What's Up" — 4 Non Blondes
"Year of the Cat" — Al Stewart
"You Light Up My Life" — Debby Boone
"(You're) Having My Baby" — Paul Anka

Palladian said...

"Well, Palladian, I guess I hate whatever you do for a living as well. ;-)"

So do I!

Don Meaker said...

I used to live in Ron Paul's district. I even voted for him before I learned of his mollycoddling of his corps of racist "Texas succession" supporters.

Ann Althouse said...

"So do I."

Now, there's a retort! Poor Palladian!

Anyway...

I kind of love Melanie. here she is, aged 60, singing "Ruby Tuesday."

XWL said...

Sully can take comfort, and burnish his conservative 'street cred', by letting people know he made Obama's most hated bloggers (or blogs) list

(unfortunately for him, it wasn't for any supposed conservatism, instead it was for the vomit inducing sychophancy)

(Althouse also made the list, she better watch out, a tax audit might be in her future)

(and I didn't just make up that list, I got it from a good source, just like all those "a reader writes" posts from Sully aren't completely made up...)

Palladian said...

"I kind of love Melanie. here she is, aged 60, singing "Ruby Tuesday."

Oh I love Melanie too. Don't infer from my list that I generally dislike everyone on it. I love Sammy Davis Jr and Harry Nilsson too. Speaking of Harry Nilsson, John Lennon is playing the piano in this video of the song. Nilsson and Lennon were good friends.

Kev said...

Palladian, that's a pretty decent list; I don't disagree on too many counts (I actually do like "The Logical Song," but I'll concede that there are much better songs on that album).

Speaking of "MacArthur Park," Maynard Ferguson did a really good version of it (which is vastly improved by the absence of those inane lyrics). But I must warn you that it does contain some of that dreaded jazzy saxophone (and jazzy trumpet and trombone, too!), LOL.

So do I.

I agree; that's a great retort (and sorry if it's true).

Palladian said...

The Muppets did a version as well.

Palladian said...

"Speaking of "MacArthur Park," Maynard Ferguson did a really good version of it (which is vastly improved by the absence of those inane lyrics). But I must warn you that it does contain some of that dreaded jazzy saxophone (and jazzy trumpet and trombone, too!), LOL."

Own it. As I said I have 70 versions of MacArthur Park, probably almost every version ever released.

"I agree; that's a great retort (and sorry if it's true)."

No, it's not. I'm lucky.

John said...

Sullivan is a serious mysogonist. He has a real problem with female sexuality and power. Any one remember his bizare obsession with the alleged use of menstral blood to torture Islamic prisoners? He really can't handle and attractive sexually powerful woman. That is why he went so bizzerk over Palin. Had Palin not been attractive or better yet a man, Sullivan would have never gone so crazy. I don't think Sullivan is gay in that he particularly likes other men. I think he is gay because he can only be with other men because female sexuality threatens him so much. The man truely cannot handle a powerful, sexually attractive woman. Given that he has no choice but to be gay. His aversion and fear of such woman I think drives much of his thinking about politics. He needs a shrink. He doesn't need a blog. The blog just enables his neurosis.

Ron Coleman said...

We all know that Sullivan has gone over the top in so many ways, but that's not the point. In fact the issues that divide us are too complex, and there are far too many of them, for these labels to work any more. It's mainly a matter of partisanship, not principle, anyway -- where were "liberals" and "feminists" during the Lewinsky scandal?

Hucbald said...

The first two Supertramp albums were brilliant, and since it's me saying that, it isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

Anyway, I really hate that leftists are called liberal, members of the negroid races are called black (They aren't black, they're brown, just as "whites" aren't white, they're off-white at best, so call them what they are, caucasians) and homosexuals are called gay. It should be:

"Oprah is a leftist because she is a negro, Hitch is a leftist because he is a thoroughly evil sack of stinking excrement, and you are a leftist because you are a homosexual."

Someday, real, accurate expression will make a comeback.

TitusonceknewagirlfromNantucket said...

Hi how are you?

I am super, thanks for asking.

What is going on?

What are we outraged about?

Let's get this party started.

I am totally ready to be angry.

Let's go. Fight, and bring victory in our sights.

Dave said...

Palladian, How in the world can you leave off "In the Year 2525"?
I mean, I can't think worse hit song, ever.

Synova said...

Thanks, Dave. I really *needed* to be reminded of that.

SMGalbraith said...

Alone Again (Naturally)" — Gilbert O'Sullivan

Too easy.

Anything done by Gilbert O'Sullivan was a crime against humanity.

I'd let Goebbels and Goering go just to make room in the prison for Gilbert.

Okay, but not Mengele.

RR Ryan said...

I hated quite a few of those songs when I was younger(Seasons in the Sun is one i still despise), but as I've gotten older things like "At Seventeen", have actually become favorites. Largely because they follow standard songwriting structure and feature good session players. As an aside someone asked Lee Ritenour to name his favorite session and his response was Barry White.

Ralph said...

I like "MacArthur Park" because the tune is so over the top and the lyrics so silly. Who uses green icing on a cake? Maybe a leaf or two, but the whole thing?
I heard Summers' (I think) version on the radio last night--she said "MacArthur's Park." Fool.

The Crack Emcee said...

"All we have to do is find ourselves a gay black athiest conservative, and we can stick a fork in that reader e-mail."

Except for the part about being gay, you got me.

And those songs aren't "bad," just kitch-y (sp?) Most of them are classics, of one kind or another, even if they're stupid. That said, I regret that I'll have to bookmark this thread because of them.

Barlycorn, John said...

"Who uses green icing on a cake?"

It's a Peter Pan reference.

PJ said...

It's his husband's influence, so in a sense, yes, he's turned liberal because he is gay. Or rather made his new definition of conservatism so rarified that none in the rough and tumble could meet it and so he withdraws sadly and with regret to be...

liberal. And it's just a coincidence that his husband is hugely liberal.

Nor do I think this is insulting or unusual. I'm female. This always dampens any conservative impulses I have with regards to traditional religion for example. I could get with the god thing until they start spouting anti-woman bs from the pulpit, or the pope's special little chair, and then, there's just no way. Incompatible. Bye bye.

If I were a guy, I would likely rationalize it away.

jeff said...

"The real truth is that many on the Republican right just read everything I write through an anti-gay prism, because their homophobia..."

Yes, we all remember the brutal oppression he felt from the Republicans back in the early days of the war. Totally ignored what he actually wrote due to my anti-gay prism and homophobia. He is so perceptive.




MacArthur Park a bad song??
Are you kidding? When Shatner kicks it into high gear it transcends mere music. I believe that version is played on the muzak system in heaven.

Ralph said...

B, J, please explain.

john said...

Palladian, I'm impressed, and all aphpabetical too. BUT WTF, where is "Horse with no name"????

At lease we agree about Total eclipse of the heart.

And Shattner was way too easy.

Orion said...

How liberals ever fell into the trap of mindlessly opposing everything that Bush et al did, I'll never understand.

It's fairly simple, really. There are "liberals" like Hitchens who believe in individual liberty and progressive values and there are "liberals" who use the label as cover for their underlying agenda - which can be as varied as, "legalize pot" to "I'm getting paid to say this shit!"

People like Bush, who really is a Boy Scout, annoy the latter because he got in the way of their (unreported) goals.

SMGalbraith said...

The real truth is that many on the Republican right just read everything I write through an anti-gay prism, because their homophobia..."

That's a telling statement from Sullivan because (1) it's simply not true; and (2) he used to know it wasn't true.

But since his homosexuality has become the sine qua non of his existence and his worldview (and I think this happened only in the past 5-6 years), anything that in any way opposes that perspective or stands in the way of it is anathema to him.

So, someone on the right can't disgree with him in good faith; no, it must be evidence of their deeper homophobia and bias.

And since he now views (nearly) everyone on the right as obstacles to his gay worldview, he must destroy them. Previously, he would try to persuade them, with respect, to come to his view. Now, he only wants to ruin them.

In essence, he's become Gore Vidal.

The Crack Emcee said...

PJ,

"I could get with the god thing until they start spouting anti-woman bs from the pulpit, or the pope's special little chair, and then, there's just no way. Incompatible. Bye bye.

If I were a guy, I would likely rationalize it away."


As a black guy, and an atheist, I don't get that. It sounds more like you're rationalizing because you're a woman. Are you seriously saying anytime there's some criticism of women (listen to the song) you can't consider it? Because it's from a religious figure?

I think it's important to consider it all.

And yea: I've been a big fan of Ice Cube, for a long time, for just that reason.

Tim said...

Sullivan doesn't promote the same values and politics he promoted 10, or even 5, years ago. So, even granted he ONCE was a Conservative doesn't make him one today. Frankly, I don't read him. I don't read him because he's predictable, and there's no reason to read him if I already know what side of an issue he comes down on. And, today, he almost always comes down on the liberal -- or, at least, the anti-Conservative, anti-GOP -- side of issues. Now, if Obama is a failure and Sullivan recants, he'll please Conservatives again at some future time, I'm sure. And, if Obama succeeds, and Sullivan crows -- well, I guess either way he'll prove to be neither Liberal nor Conservative, but sycophantic. THAT'S what I think Sullivan is!

Michael McNeil said...

It was actually Hitchens having himself waterboarded that convinced me that it isn't torture. 'Course, Hitchens afterwards claimed that it was — but after the initial experience thought that perhaps now that he knew what to expect, he could fortify himself against the instantaneous panic attack that he experienced having it done to him — and so underwent it again.

No such luck: he panicked just as much the second time as the first, then emerged saying, yup it's torture all right. But how many folks who've really been tortured (stretched out on the rack, or bamboo shoots rammed under their fingernails) would ever feel the need (much less summon up the will) to have it done to them twice before they're sure?

Michael McNeil said...

bamboo shoots → bamboo slivers

Host with the Most said...

palladian, thank you.

"Brandy" can actually bring homicidal thoughts . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Worst rhyming attempt ever:

Theme from Love Story

With her first hello
She gave meaning to this empty world of mine
There'll never be another love, another time
She came into my life
and made the living fine"

DEATH! The writer deserves DEATH!

blake said...

That link is not Melanie at 60, it seems to be Melanie at...35? She calls herself an old woman, intriguingly enough. Though I guess if you were playing at Woodstock at 21, the intervening 15 years might make you feel old.

Here's Melanie at 60. (You probably meant to link to this.)

RebeccaH said...

Let us hope that President Obama is a classical liberal, the old-fashioned kind (although I do think he has some of the conservative in him, thankfully) instead of the present-day definition of faux liberalism (fascism in sheep's clothing).

Andrew Sullivan, on the other hand, is just nuts and doesn't know what he is.

blake said...

I approve of Palladian's list.

I would expect to see Alan O'Day on it, however.

Ann Althouse said...

blake, you're right. Sorry for overaging Melanie.

Laura(southernxyl) said...

Shatner ... is there anything he hasn't covered?

I have a special sense of the ubiquitousness of MacArthur Park b/c when I was in high school I played clarinet in the band, and saxophone in the jazz band, we had an arrangement of MacArthur Park, and at one time or another I played every single part written for either of those instruments.

Here is my fav version.

veni vidi vici said...

Palladian,
Please tell me that leaving "Billy (Don't be a Hero)" off your list was merely a transcription error.

Incidentally, years ago as a bit of a joke I bought one of those Time/Life CD collections off the television, "AM Gold", whose track listings pretty much match your list to a "T".

Quite uncanny, actually.


Oh, and I have a "Macarthur Park" story too:

about 17 years ago, when my brother and I still had long hair and were living in a ratty rehearsal room at the Hollywood & Western bldg, putting together another lineup of our band, we invited this singer to join us, whose vocal style was somewhere in the Coverdale meets Queensryche zone of wailing bansheeism, and his look was pure long-haired, goatee'd sleazy Hollywood biker-dude. While bro and our then-bassist/guitarist were tuning up, the singer and I would get his sound going (I was the drummer and had the PA controls next to me because my drums were also triggering samples at the time): he always sang "someone left a cake out in the rain", as well as platters and johnny mathis songs. I thought it was great to have a *real* singer for once, rather than another Hollywood poseur with a penchant for wanting to be Axl Rose. I think his mom had all those crooner records, along with the Englebert Humperdinck sashaying the Macarthur Park jam, and he just absorbed it all.

Too bad he was a total meth-head.

vic

veni vidi vici said...

I meant to add, you've probably never heard a version of Macarthur Park by a wailing rock singer backed up by an "In through the out door" sounding rock band.

I wish we'd recorded more of our rehearsals; we had a lot of fun screwing around with out-of-genre songs during that period, but never played them out anywhere.

jcr said...

I know of multiple liberals who supported Ron Paul. Why they did, I don't know.

Probably because they were true liberals, not the nanny-state totalitarians who stole the label back around the time of the LBJ administration.

-jcr

john said...

Host said -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Worst rhyming attempt ever:....

No No No No No No.

I've waited long enough for Palladian, or someone in this group, to admitting to what is both the most wretched song ever, and the worst rhyming attempt ever :

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too


Someone had to say it.

DirtCrashr said...

And old Malcolm Forbes wasn't gay?? Really?!!? Sheesh.

Xmas said...

John,

I was answering your question....

"And the bit about supporting Paul yet calling Palin the wackjob?"

Little did I know it was rhetorical.

Ralph said...

I would add Leader of the Pack.

Mule said...

It's unfortunate God does not share Sullivan's gay pride. Of course, this same God doesn't condone my Internet porn addiction either, but I don't accuse all Conservatives of frigidity.

AST said...

He's still getting published in The Weekly Standard. I think he's more of a guy who just likes seeing his name in print.

Neither Lib nor Con. Neither fish nor fowl. Maybe he's gay.

peter hoh said...

Song phrasing that bothers me:

With two cats in the yard
Life used to be so hard
Now everything is beautiful
'cause of you


What the hell was so hard about having two cats in the yard?

peter hoh said...

Pastafarian asked: Peter -- do you have any doubt that Althouse is primarily liberal?

Not at all, though it seems to shock some people here every so often.

Ann Althouse said...

"What the hell was so hard about having two cats in the yard?"

No, life used to be so hard. Before the cats. The cool thing about that song is that it really cheers you up, thinking just get 2 cats in the yard and everything will be fine.

Synova said...

I don't remember the song, but it was someone or other performing live in a wedding dress on the Late Show way back when, on my parents' television with the closed captioning on and I decided...

Songs are better when you don't know what the words are.

peter hoh said...

Ann, I know that "our house," which, by the way, is a "very, very, very fine house" has "two cats in the yard."

I also get that "Life used to be so hard, now everything is beautiful . . . ."

However, as it is sung, it always hits my ears as though the hard part is the cats in the yard. Might have somwthing to do with the young age at which I first heard the song.

Ann Althouse said...

Well, if you hear it that way, you have to wonder what he did to get rid of those cats. Poisoned them, probably.

peter hoh said...

. . . or made a little Mexican drug gang stew.

Kirk Parker said...

"you have to wonder what he did to get rid of those cats. "

He just let the squirrels drive them out.

Kev said...

Theme from Love Story

With her first hello
She gave meaning to this empty world of mine
There'll never be another love, another time
She came into my life and made the living fine"

DEATH! The writer deserves DEATH!


I wonder if Al Gore wrote those lyrics. He supposedly was the inspiration for the movie, after all...

Please tell me that leaving "Billy (Don't be a Hero)" off your list was merely a transcription error.

You could say it's on there by extension; he's got "The Night Chicago Died" on the list, and that was done by the same group, Paper Lace, that originally did "Billy," though the version by Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods was more popular in the U.S.

Methadras said...

Little Miss Sullivans site is down. I wonder if he is going to rename it to from the Daily Dish to the Daily Douche because that what he and that blog of his need right about now.