December 9, 2008

Joe the Plumber was "appalled" at John McCain but says "Sarah Palin is absolutely the real deal."

Politico reports:
Recalling a conversation he had with McCain about the $700 billion financial industry bailout in September, [Joe] Wurzelbacher said: “When I was on the bus with him, I asked him a lot of questions about the bailout because most Americans did not want that to happen.”

“I asked him some pretty direct questions,” he continued. “Some of the answers you guys are gonna receive — they appalled me, absolutely. I was angry. In fact, I wanted to get off the bus after I talked to him.”

68 comments:

Meade said...

"In fact, I wanted to get off the bus after I talked to him."

I get no respect - even from myself. It's so bad, whenever I see a politician coming, I toss MYSELF under the bus.

peter hoh said...

In other words: Back when it might have mattered, I kept my mouth shut because I was enjoying the ride. But now that it's over, I will reveal what I really thought, and this has nothing to do with self-promotion.

Hmm. Where have I heard that sort of thing before?

Oh yeah, McClellen.

Freeman Hunt said...

In other words: Back when it might have mattered, I kept my mouth shut because I was enjoying the ride.

Or because he thought Obama was worse.

chickenlittle said...

It's too late in the day to start a raging Palin thread.

But Sarah Palin is the real the deal--at least to/for me.

peter hoh said...

Freeman, that's a good point. I guess I was thinking more in terms of the bailout.

John Stodder said...


Or because he thought Obama was worse.


Which is just what he said.

Joe is right where the Republican base is: anti-bailout and pro-Palin. It'll be interesting to see if that's where the candidates all are by 2010, and whether that will be a winning combination or a loser.

AlphaLiberal said...

So, Joe, a couple months ago you told us to vote for McCain but now we're supposed to believe you when you say Palin is "the real deal," whatever that means.

And you're leaking this in advance of your book sales. Book sales which are only possible because of John McCain.

Watch yer back, Palin.

Freeman Hunt said...

I guess I was thinking more in terms of the bailout.

I wonder at what point we'll stop bailing and fix the holes in the boat.

Freeman Hunt said...

So, Joe, a couple months ago you told us to vote for McCain but now we're supposed to believe you when you say Palin is "the real deal," whatever that means.

As those two positions do not contradict each other in any way, I suppose you could find him believable.

AlphaLiberal said...

Well, the thing is, Freeman, Joe is contradicting himself from only two months ago.

He's a crass opportunist.

Freeman Hunt said...

But is he contradicting himself? Or is he sayiing, in essence, McCain appalled me, and Obama really appalled me. A quote from the article:

Asked why he didn’t leave McCain’s campaign if he was “appalled” by the candidate, Wurzelbacher said, “honestly, because the thought of Barack Obama as president scares me even more.”

I think that most all conservatives weren't fans of McCain, but they were willing to support him over Obama. You only get to pick from the ones in the running.

Michael said...

"Or because he thought Obama was worse."

You're kidding right?

Why would anybody with a fucking ounce of sense listen to anything this loser has to say?

"But Sarah Palin is the real the deal--at least to/for me."

You and the rest of the desperate fools who supported Bush.

"It'll be interesting to see if that's where the candidates all are by 2010, and whether that will be a winning combination or a loser."

Duh.

Good lord...

Michael said...

Freeman Hunt said..."But is he contradicting himself? Or is he sayiing, in essence, McCain appalled me, and Obama really appalled me. A quote from the article..."

Obama won.

Get over it.

You're actually interested in what Joe The Plumber thinks...about ANYTHING??

How dumb are you?

AlphaLiberal said...

Don't let me get in the way of your rationalization.

This guy is pimping his fame big time. He's already got a book out. And he's got endorsements and other stuff going. From the fame McCain gave him.

So, here's Fucken Joe accusing McCain of, what, compromises? But Joe made his own compromises because he thinks Obama (who has pissed of the left for being too centrist) is a socialist. Or something.

Whatever.

EDH said...

Isn't it ironic:

That JtP will probably earn the $250k+ income his detractors said he'd never earn.

That Obama will probably not seek to raise taxes on those making that amount.

Michael in Fort Worth said...

Michael said...
"You're actually interested in what Joe The Plumber thinks...about ANYTHING?? How dumb are you?"

Dunno, Michael. Maybe I'm too dumb for words. But ever since I put my own life savings on the line, started a business, dealt with all the different government agencies and deadweight bureaucrats trying to make life more difficult, and actually succeeded anyway, I have a little different perspective on government.

I actually know a lot of plumbers - some of them are my clients - and they tend to be a pretty levelheaded bunch.

Oh, and by the way, all that politician-talk about creating jobs? We're actually doing it. What are you doing?

Michael said...

Joe The Plumber...hero to many here:

...(a "plumber") who has not yet completed the apprentice program he began in 2003...(wants to buy a company for $250,000) yet only made $40,000 in 2006...(thinks Obama is a "socialist) while acknowledging his parents were on welfare TWICE while he was growing up...(is years from actually taking advantage of the system) yet says he never believed in Social Security....doesn't like it...and hates that it's FORCED on him.

A walking, talking...mental midget.

Marcia said...

Joe the Plumber is just a guy who asked a question. He shouldn't have been demonized by the left during the election, his files shouldn't have been dug into, and he shouldn't be paid any attention now.

Joe should never have mattered. The only thing that should have mattered was Obama's answer to Joe's question. But at the time, Obama supporters wanted to bury that under talk about Joe himself. Guess what, guys? It worked, just not how you wanted. It's a story at least as old as Frankenstein.

Michael said...

Michael in Fort Worth - Oh, you're quite a guy.

But Joe isn't really a plumber...is he?

He's a plumber's helper.

And I've owned and operated all kinds of businesses, and government indeed can be troublesome, but without it we have chaos.

But if you really started a business...you should already know that...but then again, you apparently think Joe The Plumber is some kind of wise man we should pay close attention to?

You and I both know it's all a crock and has more to do with hating Obama than really thinking this creep knows anything about anything.

*Let's see where Joe The Plumber is in six months.

ron st.amant said...

Maybe Palin will choose him as her VP nominee in '12 and everyone but the loony 25% on the far fight will just die laughing and they'll win the election by default?

Keep it up Joe (or whatever your real name is)...stretch those 15 minutes of fame as long as you can...

Barnum was so right.

Michael said...

Marcia - Obama's answer to Joe was straight forward and honest.

Why not read the transcript of the exchange?

Joe was lying through his teeth about being a plumber, buying the business and even being close to having his taxes increased.

Meade said...

"He's a crass opportunist."

He's a plumber from Toledo.

If you want delicate nice refined sensitive opportunists, I suggest you talk to Democrats from Illinois.

Michael said...

Meade - He's not a plumber.

He's a plumber's helper.

And a bald-faced liar.

Freeman Hunt said...

Don't let me get in the way of your rationalization.

What is it that you think I'm rationalizing?

This guy is pimping his fame big time.

I've never asserted that he isn't.

But Joe made his own compromises because he thinks Obama (who has pissed of the left for being too centrist) is a socialist.

How is it a compromise to support whatever candidate you think is best out of the candidates running? Isn't that the only option?

blake said...

Did anyone (reasonably intelligent and not blinded by partisan hatred) get a different idea prior to the election?

He was cagey about endorsing McCain at all.

But by all means, lefties, keep up the War on Plumbers.

Joe M. said...

If this is the direction the Republican party is headed, I'm voting "Present" in 2012.

Freeman Hunt said...

If this is the direction the Republican party is headed

If what is the direction the Republican party is headed? Toward Palin? Toward something somehow related to Joe the Plumber?

traditionalguy said...

This deep hostility to poor old Joe is very revealing. Yes he is plain. Yes he is a right winger. Yes he is an opportunist. But he is not your enemy, unless his honesty has made you ashamed of your sophisticated approach. It seems that the only social taboo we are willing to enforce has become the crime of Speaking Truthfully in Public.

John Stodder said...

From the fame McCain gave him.

The fact is, Obama made him famous. McCain took advantage of his fame more as a way of highlighting the unanticipated result of Obama politicking in Joe's front yard.

The reason he's famous is that he induced Obama to state a position that is not shared by a majority of voters -- a statement that surely surprised him as much as it did everyone else.

For this unplanned, unintentional crime, he's got weenies like Michael crawling all over him for the next few years -- as if the issue was ever "how good a plumber is Joe," using information that never should have been publicized. Fortunately, he seems to have a pretty strong character. I'm sure if the tables were turned, Michael would be weeping like a little girl.

Bill Kilgore said...

I see that the usual representatives from the Party of the Working Man are continuing with their "Truth to Plumbers" campaign.

Fight the good-fight my brothers. For even if the struggle leads to your demise- know that in the afterlife, plumber's helpers will properly identify themselves without getting all uppity. And that is a heaven worth dying for.

Seven Machos said...

Leftist moonbats will be critical of anyone who disagrees with them forever. For them, winning doesn't matter. The perpetual whining campaign about how wrong their perceived opponents are is the stuff of their lives. Thus, happiness eludes them.

mcg said...

Michael sez: And I've owned and operated all kinds of businesses, and government indeed can be troublesome, but without it we have chaos.

Oh really? Tell us about them. How many, precisely? And why "past tense"? How many failed? How many did you quietly shutter? How many did you actually dispose of for a profit?

I'll bet Michael in Fort Worth's one business surpasses all of yours combined---that is, assuming you weren't lying through your teeth about owning one in the first place.

Skyler said...

It shocks me when anyone is disdainful of those that understand that Obama is a socialist. If he's not a socialist, then what's all this new new deal stuff about?

Bush is an extreme socialist, witness his buying of the banking and now the auto industries. Obama wants to socialize musicians and artists, a la Roosevelt's new deal. This is even more extreme socialism.

I wonder if the republican party will ever rid itself of the curse of the two Bushes and return to Reagan capitalism. Most of America is right there with Joe the (non)(who cares)Plumber in recognizing that McCain is a continuation of Bush's socialst poliices, but Obama is an acceleration of them.

But he never should have gotten on McCain's bandwagon. No one should have. But the republicans didn't field a single acceptable alternative in the primaries, mostly because they've been overcome by massive corruption and socialists.

We're doomed.

Uncle Jimbo said...

Joe the Douche.

Perfect waste of time.

Cordially,

Uncle J

John Stodder said...

If Michael is telling the truth about all the businesses he owned, perhaps his more beneficent view of government comes from his good fortune to do business in the Reagan/Clinton era, a good era for small businesses that seems to petered out under Bush and isn't a priority for Obama.

Remember, Joe wasn't complaining about government. He was complaining about what Obama told him to his face he intended to do that might affect his hypothetical business in the future.

jdeeripper said...

Joe the Plumber was "appalled" at John McCain but says "Sarah Palin is absolutely the real deal."

So in other words he's the typical Republican.

OhioAnne said...

He asked Obama a question.

Had some Ohio Democratic officials not overreacted and decided that asking the question made him a criminal, he would have topped out at 15 minutes of fame regardless of McCain's mentioning him at the debate.

Instead, the on-going investigation into the criminal violation of his rights has kept his name in the news long past his time and he's making a buck off the opportunity. I am not losing sleep over it.

As an Ohio resident, I find Ohio Governor - who ran on a ethics platform - trying to justify the intrusion of public officials into private files without probable cause as "no big deal" far more problematic than what Joe The Plumber is about.

Darcy said...

Interesting. blake is right. JTP did seem cagey about McCain. I did get the feeling he wasn't really backing him.

I'm getting more comfortable with the fact that McCain lost. I'm not comfortable with Obama winning, but I have an open mind about it.

Pogo said...

Will no one rid the DNC of this troublesome plumber?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Yet another example of your typical blue collar working man who dares hold a conservative viewpoint being villified by the lefties.

Oh and Alpha, Joe is coming out with a book? OMFG!! I mean on what? the guy hasn't done anything bookworthy.

I guess he got the idea from Obama.

X said...

Isn't it ironic:

That JtP will probably earn the $250k+ income his detractors said he'd never earn.



not to mention the irony of causing the Democrat brownshirts to act like Nixon's plumbers.

Cedarford said...

Skyler - I wonder if the republican party will ever rid itself of the curse of the two Bushes and return to Reagan capitalism.

One very bad news story for Republicans is that 30 years have passed since "Reaganomics" came into being, and people looking at the consequences are generally drifting to the Democrats.

That is the independents, the Reagan Democrats, and especially the kids and grandkids of Reagan Democrats.

For a while, Reaganomics seemed to work. We had transferred our base manufacturing and then high tech, high end manufacturing to Asia, but speculative bubbles, IT gains to productivity, and most of all willingness of Asians to lend back the wealth they had transferred to them by us masked fundamental problems with free trade.

Domestically, Reaganomics and tax cuts aimed at the wealthiest has further concentrated wealth in the hands of a few, "Trickledown" exposed as a myth. Reagan was thwarted by Dems in control of Congress from applying his magical Supply Side theory in full - that the more you cut taxes, the more tax revenue you get. Bush had a Republican Congress and tested Supply Side in full - and gave us more debt than all past Administrations combined.
And while deregulation "blessed" America with some productivity gains, it also fostered scandals in key sectors of the US economy so bad that in other countries, it would have the masses erecting barricades and burning buildings.

30 years have passed since "Reagan capitalism". We have seen our economic dominance progressively erode. Business is now saying we cannot compete with our failed health care system costing 50% more than in even our prosperous rival nations, not it being tacked on to their products while other countries do not put that cost on business.

Movements frozen in amber - ideologically driven not to change because of fond memories of success in a different era - normally fail and go against the interests of the masses they once helped long ago.

Think of the dinosaurs of the black civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s demanding others avoid new ideas, new methods, and largely keeping blacks in 60s grievance culture, blaming all their problems on Whitey.

Democrats screwed us in 1964 trying to give us "FDR II", with the same things that worked great for FDR in a bygone time, caused horrific harm the 2nd time around. Same with Dems finally having their head handed to them in 1994 for trying to foist the same sort of moral victories Dems had in "Great Society I" in the mid-60s.

Reagan is gone, Reagan capitalism is gone. Voodoo economics is gone. Try running on that old stuff and to younger Americans, you end up looking like old Russian pensioners wearing Stalin buttons and talking about the "good old days".
*****************
Hoosier Daddy said...
Yet another example of your typical blue collar working man who dares hold a conservative viewpoint being villified by the lefties.

Oh and Alpha, Joe is coming out with a book? OMFG!! I mean on what? the guy hasn't done anything bookworthy.

I guess he got the idea from Obama.


Yeah, both he and Palin have inked book deals. His for a few hundred thousand, while the Goddess of the Right Wing Fundies has a multimillion dollar contract.

It follows the pattern of former politicians and loser politicians methodically seeking to enrich themselves off the process and the free celebrity they got.

Huckabee got his own TV show. Fred went back to his with a contract increase.

Blagojevich will have a book contract soon.

And all poor, stumbling Bill Richardson got was a lousy secondary Cabinet post..

junyo said...

I've always wanted to live in the magical land of progressives, where instead of experience or skill or knowledge, you're made something only by a certificate from the government or a union; sure you can fix a toilet, but you're not a plumber, but this gentleman has a certificate and therefore may officially fix my crapper. How dare someone install a sink for money without permission from the state.

And while we're all supposed to care about the viewpoints of assorted entertainment types (but it's okay because Clooney is a certified actor) it's impossibly stupid to consider what a non-plumber from Ohio thinks. The left is rapidly on their way to codifying a new caste system for America, with a list of what educational or professional certs one needs to be allowed into public discourse. How democratic. How noble. How egalitarian. In the last year we've learned that the party of social justice doesn't have the slightest problem using the power of the state and it's record collections to tear down political opponents.

Palladian said...

Cedarford helps put the socialist in National Socialist.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

As those two positions do not contradict each other in any way,

And they are not opportunist in any way either. Joe, like myself and all of the Republicans that I know, didn't want McCain as the candidate, but really really didn't want Obama as the President. Until Palin came on the ticket most were only going to hold their noses and vote Republican or not vote at all.

There is absolutely no contradiction in campaigning 'against' the Obama campaign while you don't particularly like your own candidate.

When you are given the choice between two shit sandwiches, you take the one that is less shitty.

Titushadabaddream said...

Could this have anything to do with him trying to sell his "book"?

Joe, please your 15 minutes are up.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

I love how liberals are supposedly the lonely guardian of the little guy, yet when someone pisses them off, the first thing they do is accuse them of being trailer trash, a plumber's helper or uneducated.

Tell a liberal that welfare is socialism and they will deny it. Let a liberal do an illegal background check on Joe, find out his parents were on welfare, and suddenly welfare IS socialism, and acceptable? Or is Joe to be scorned as trash because his folks were on the dole?

I never heard any liberals be critical of black folks (like Obama's illegal alien aunt) on welfare, so why is this an issue for some poor guy who just happened to not play into Obama's cult of hero worship?

sonicfrog said...

asked why he didn’t leave McCain’s campaign if he was “appalled” by the candidate, Wurzelbacher said, “honestly, because the thought of Barack Obama as president scares me even more.”

Scared of Obama... SCARED???

Man, for guys that shovel in other people's shit all day long, plumbers are such wusses!

Us pool / spa repair / teacher guys - we say "Bring Em On!" We ain't afraid of no socialist commie bastard!

Signed, the guy who wrote in Paris Hilton.

Balfegor said...

Marcia - Obama's answer to Joe was straight forward and honest.

Yes, it was. That's why the Democrats started soiling themselves when it played on the news.

If he'd been on his game, he'd have lied, and there would have been no story at all. Plumber Joe would have remained a nonentity -- just another faceless prop in Obama's grand tour of the provinces.

AlphaLiberal said...

The truth is that Fucken Joe lied to Obama when he approached him. The media looked into his claims and found that he was making stuff up.

In the right wing world, that means attacking Joe for not simply repeating his lies.

William said...

During Cindy Sheehan's moment of celebrity, we were never treated to talking heads mocking her lack of education or ignorance of geopolitics in the near East. Eventually she went on to become so outspoken as to embarass the cause which she championed. The press then dropped her. We no longer saw her face, etched in grief, on the cover of papers....I like Joe. He seems decent and level headed. If he becomes besotted with fame and goes on to make a fool of himself, he will not disappear from public life. Instead he will become more prominent. Jon Stewart will have him on his show to plug the book. But if he remains level headed and decent, he will disappear. There is thus a catch-22: Joe can remain famous only if he can prove himself unworthy of fame.

junyo said...

The truth is that Fucken Joe lied to Obama when he approached him. The media looked into his claims and found that he was making stuff up.

Because statements made to a candidate are done so under oath. You come up to me in my own fucking yard, I'm not running for jack shit, I maintain the right to tell you that I'm the King of Siam, this is my wife the Princess of Denial, and that I'm concerned about whether the solid gold nuggets I shit are considered capitol gains. Your job as a candidate is either answer my question in a way that benefits you, or extricate yourself skillfully. O did neither. He picked the wrong guy to approach, answered badly, and then relied on his acolytes doing their normal job of character assassination to cover the gaff.

And the media didn't 'look into' squat. The media was spoon fed illegally obtained governmental information as oppo research and regurgitated it as the Obama campaign required.

James said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eSJuWgZGYo

"Joe the Plumber" on his statement that a vote for Obama is a vote for the "death of Israel"

Paraphrase: Shep Smith - "Do you even know Obama's positions regarding Israel?"

Joe - "I'm not gonna give you an answer there. People should go out and find out themselves" (translation - "No, I don't, I just like spewing bullshit")

Smith's reaction at the end of the clip is priceless. Referring to Joe's ridiculous statements - "I just want to make this 100 percent perfectly clear -- Barack Obama has said repeatedly and demonstrated repeatedly that Israel will always be a friend of the United States, no matter what happens once he becomes President of the United States. His words . . . The rest of it -- man...some things -- it just gets frightening sometimes. We'll be right back."

When you get that reaction from Fox News after trashing Obama, you really must be off the deep end.

Paul Snively said...

AlphaLiberal: "The truth is that Fucken Joe lied to Obama when he approached him. The media looked into his claims and found that he was making stuff up."

Honestly, where do you stark raving brainless idiots get this stuff? Joe doesn't need a license to do residential, vs. commercial, work in Ohio. The media had unlawful help in gaining access to Joe's records, which did exactly nothing to contradict Joe's claims. But because you Obamabots can't tolerate ordinary people asking Obama about the possible ramifications of his tax policy, you go into full-on lying and smearing mode in a pathetic and, as you can see, easily-discredited attempt to intimidate him and people who are interested in what he has to say.

You desperately need to grow up, get a life, get a job, and try to make some fraction of a percentage point contribution to society as Joe does by, yes, actually being a plumber. Good luck.

John Stodder said...

The truth is that Fucken Joe lied to Obama when he approached him. The media looked into his claims and found that he was making stuff up.

Wow. Dumbest rationalization ever.

I like Obama, but he and he alone fucked up on this one. I don't hear him whining about it, so why are his alleged followers still doing so?

In America, you're supposed to be able to ask a politician a question without being vetted or having to submit your resume to the thought police.

I don't think Joe "lied to Obama," he was posing a hypothetical. Obama should've knocked it out of the park. Instead, he said something that made him look like he was a redistributionist. It was healthy, really, because the furor his remarks caused forced him to deny repeatedly that he is a redistributionist. And guess what? As of now, he's foresworn redistributionist taxes. So Obama wins! And so do all the people like Joe who were worried about what he'd do.

Meanwhile, you little pinheads are still trying to find dirt on the Joe the Plumber. It would be scary if it wasn't so ludicrous.

Pogo said...

Since some of the pinheads were government officials, it should be considered scary.

John Stodder said...

For a while, Reaganomics seemed to work. We had transferred our base manufacturing and then high tech, high end manufacturing to Asia, but speculative bubbles, IT gains to productivity, and most of all willingness of Asians to lend back the wealth they had transferred to them by us masked fundamental problems with free trade.

This is your definition of Reagonomics?

You honestly think none of the global economic trends you site would have happened if Carter, Mondale or Dukakis had been elected?

Presidents can only do so much to the economy. Reagan's main affirmative achievement was his role with Volcker in squeezing out inflation, which caused economic confidence to zoom back up. You act as if he planned all these effects. All he really did was stay out of the way. Except he didn't entirely. His poetry was laissez-faire, but his prose was much more centrist.

The Dems would have done a lot more complaining about globalization, but they wouldn't have been able to stop it.

knox said...

I'm getting more comfortable with the fact that McCain lost. I'm not comfortable with Obama winning, but I have an open mind about it.

Darcy, I totally agree. In fact, within a week after the election, I was actually *glad* McCain lost. I don't think he deserved it, and I think his presidency would ultimately have hurt conservatism.

knox said...

michael said Obama won.

Get over it.


michael, you and other lefties are the ones going into hyperspaz on this thread. Take your own advice.

knox said...

And finally--sorry for the multiple posts--I find myself oddly capable of using Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, without the aid of a Graphic Designing License.

We've added a bathroom to our home and my husband was oddly capable of doing all the plumbing himself, except for the major work of tying into the main line and the like. All without the help of a License To Plumb or whatever the hell it is.

Just because you don't possess a license doesn't mean you are without skills. In fact, it is often just an excuse for a tax and frankly puts me in mind of the Magician's Alliance.

AlphaLiberal said...

Read at the Washington Monthly:

Joe* is throwing John McCain under the bus!

* Not a plumber.

blake said...

I honestly don't know why you guys bang your head against the Alpha/Michael wall.

AlphaLiberal said...

Yo, wingers:

- Obama was in the street when Joe-Not-a-Plumber approached him. Not in Joe's yard. You guys keep saying Obama invaded his yard.
- Joe didn't "present a hypothetical." He said he was buying a plumbing business even though that was based on a conversation 6 years earlier.
- Joe dropped out of the plumbing apprenticeship program.
- Joe is considering running for Congress and there is a web site to that effect.

Joe became a media sensation, which attention he invited and brought upon himself!

Joe also engaged in nasty attacks on Obama, calling him a socialist and saying "a vote for Obama is a vote for the death to Israel." (Later, Obama appointed Rahm-Grandpa was a Zionist militant-Emmanuel to be his CoS).

I have as much right to criticize this McCain campaign poster boy used as a blunt instrument in the campaign as he does to question Obama.

And, then Joe he threw McCain under the bus!

Thanks for the yucks!

AlphaLiberal said...

So, maybe you guys can clarify. When will you "allow" us to criticize Joe?

Joe is promoting himself with a publicist, has endorsements, is being interviewed publicly and trying to become a pundit.

If he does run for Congress, can we criticize him then? Just curious.

knox said...

When will you "allow" us to criticize Joe?

When you are licensed to do so, not before.

Trooper York said...

I liked it better yesterday when we were discussing Dana Delaney's plumbing.

Meade said...

knox is funny.

AlphaLiberal said...

I honestly don't know why you guys bang your head against the Alpha/Michael wall.

Those are two different walls. There's more than one liberal in America.

Though, you're probably right, they should probably give up even before they try. This wall is too sound.

When you are licensed to do so, not before.

Good one.