November 6, 2008

The reports from inside the McCain campaign are not pretty.

Carl Cameron is on fire, spilling the dirt on Sarah Palin (and reducing Bill O'Reilly to near silence):

[View video here.]

Via Allahpundit, who comments:
Unlike the first clip, this one does corroborate some of the details in the Newsweek report — sort of. Newsweek claims Palin appeared to McCain’s aides in a bath towel; Cameron says it’s a bathrobe. It’s not clear if he’s lifting that story from the piece or if he got it from a source firsthand; if the latter, then there’s either one very determined person leaking to multiple news outlets or … it’s a full-court press....

I assume this is a sign that Maverick’s headed back to the center, because if he thinks the base is sore at him now, wait until his cronies’ attempts to scapegoat their idol start percolating.

More from Carl Cameron in this clip (which you've probably already seen):



We don't know who's telling these stories, but obviously, there are many people with the motivation to blame others. Even assuming the stories are true, they don't have to be told. Why destroy Palin, a rising star in the Republican Party? Who wants her ruined? I'm not saying she doesn't deserve to be ruined. I want to know if the stories are true, and I want them in their most accurate form. (She thought Africa was a country? Really? Was this the slip of a tired, inattentive person, or someone who is clearly an ignoramus?) But I also want to know who wants us to know all these ugly things and why. It can't be simply a matter of defending McCain. McCain chose Palin, and if she's no good, he bears more blame than she does. And McCain isn't going to run again, so he would do well to be gracious and low-profile right now.

ADDED: Rush Limbaugh is raging about this story. Who is doing the leaking? "Why do it on Fox?... These are the people who work for moderate Republicans." His theory is the "country club" Republicans are trying to protect their own interests and to prevent the rebuilding of the party on genuinely conservative ideology.

155 comments:

Ron said...

Bilious venting by lackeys? Not worth the time of day.

Harwood said...

But I also want to know who wants us to know all these ugly things and why. It can't be simply a matter of defending McCain. McCain chose Palin, and if she's no good, he bears more blame than she does. And McCain isn't going to run again, so he would do well to be gracious and low-profile right now.
---
Gee whiz. Take a Valium.

Freeman Hunt said...

The idea that she would think Africa was a country is, in my opinion, utterly ridiculous. It's an obvious lie created by someone who knows nothing about people who don't live on the West Coast or in NYC or DC. The person figures that all the people in flyover ccountry are outrageous hicks.

I live in Arkansas. I've never heard anyone, no matter how ignorant, refer to Africa as a country. I'm sure you could find someone who thought that in any area of the country, but you're not going to find that person in a Governor's office.

ricpic said...

Africa is not a continent, it's a quagmire.

Meade said...

And also, I'd like to know when Palin stopped beating her wife?

save_the_rustbelt said...

When I work for someone, I am loyal to them, and would never think of being a snotty gossip just to boost my ego or to suck up to a reporter.

Pathetic little louses.

Meade said...

And by the way, what does the name "Trig" rhyme with? Huh? See?

Darcy said...

I posted these thoughts on another thread:

That Carl Cameron report should have reflected more on John McCain's campaign and staff than on Sarah Palin. Good, professional, dedicated (not to mention loyal!)people don't engage in this kind of crap. And the evidence of that is that this started even before the election.

I believe it is catty bullshit.

AllenS said...

Obama once said that he had been in all 57 states. Does he think that there are 57 states? I doubt it, but that's what he said.

bill said...

I've never heard anyone, no matter how ignorant, refer to Africa as a country

It's not quite the same, but I've often heard "African" referred to as a language. One of the worst examples was Atlanta newscaster, Tiffany Cochrane, explaining Kwanzaa as "Today is Kuuma, which in African means...." Swahili is AN African language, not THE language.

Original Mike said...

She thought Africa was a country?

This was the point in the clip where I rolled my eyes and said "OK, I'm not buying this".

Crimso said...

"She thought Africa was a country? Really? Was this the slip of a tired, inattentive person, or someone who is clearly an ignoramus?"

I really don't understand people (and I'm not accusing Althouse of being such a person) who claim Palin is an idiot but at the same time don't seem to have a problem with Joe Biden. I mean I REALLY don't understand that at all. And I know Africa isn't a country and Iranians aren't (generally) Arabs, so I'm clearly smarter than either Palin or Biden.;)

Bissage said...

I blame Hillary!

Bob said...

I'm thinking someone wants Palin to stay in Alaska where she belongs and not involve herself in matters outside her pay grade again. I hear the sound of axes being ground, someone with an agenda.

vet66 said...

"South Africa" is a country located in the continent of Africa. What was the context of the question? We will probably never know if the question was ignorant and required clarification.

These back stabbers and bushwhackers are cowards. Throwing Palin under the bus to salvage their own sorry careers is pathetic. They failed McCain, they are failing Palin, and pointing the finger of failure at everyone but themselves.

The key word that describes the elitist attitudes of these aristocratic, condescending rabble when dealing with people unlike them is "uncommon!" They treat Palin and the rest of us like Eliza Doolittle in a real-life production of My Fair Lady.

Losers in a class all to themselves.

AJ Lynch said...

The local talk radio guy was doing the Monday Morning QB on the Palin pick. He lamented how she did not pass MSM muster. As if any other Rep pick would have passed the MSM muster. Hell look how the MSM turned on McCain.

Also, I heard Fox [News Corp] stock dropped 20% last night after hours. Will they blame that on Palin?

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann Althouse has this odd thing to say:
Even assuming the stories are true, they don't have to be told.

Well, why not? There are people out there who think the truth has some type of , you know, "utility". (If you're not attracted to the truth on it's own merits).

For example, if a bad candidate is polished up and trotted out in 2-4 years as the leader for the country, don't we have a right to know how they did last time?

Better question: Why must the American people be lied to on Palin's qualifications?

Lawgiver said...

The idea that she would think Africa was a country is, in my opinion, utterly ridiculous.

It's beyond ridiculous. I don't know what her "degree of knowledgabiltiy" is but I can't believe she is that ignorant.

Sloanasaurus said...

Don't believe this stuff. The media looks for any dirt to report coming out of the losing campaign.

Sarah Palin will be a leader in the Republican party. We need her.

Bob said...

Lawgiver: It's beyond ridiculous. I don't know what her "degree of knowledgabiltiy" is but I can't believe she is that ignorant.

Maybe we should make all candidates for office appear on Jeopardy, and only allow the winners to participate in the political process. Constitutional amendment, anyone?

L. E. Lee said...

I think all of this "Sarah Palin lost the election for Republicans" is mostly wrong. Palin was not the albatross around McCain's neck. The big Republican albatross was obviously George W. Bush.

AlphaLiberal said...

The media looks for any dirt to report coming out of the losing campaign.

Yeah, I'm sure FoxNews is making this up. They're so much a part of that vast media conspiracy.

Look, the accounts are coming from within the McCain camp. More are on the way from within the Bush Admin (look forward to Jan 21).

It's healthy to face problems head on, not go looking for scapegoats.

MadisonMan said...

Bill O'Reilly (who I agree is strangely silent during this interview!) says there's a book in it. I would think Carl Cameron is writing it.

Let the fingerpointing be ongoing. I will not buy much of what is said, but there is likely a kernel of truth at the bottom. It's interesting to watch.

Lawgiver said...

Even assuming the stories are true, they don't have to be told.

Alpha,

Do you believe Palin thinks Africa is a country?

AJ Lynch said...

Alpha:

You crack me up ! Let me know will you when exactly Obama met Bill Ayers and if Ayers ever babysat Obama's kids.

PJ said...

Time will tell, I suppose, but on its face it sure looks like some former McCain people have become current Mitt or Huck people at about the speed you'd expect. Do they know this kind of story reflects badly on McCain? Of course they do, but he's the past.

Expat(ish) said...

@AlphaLiberal: For example, if a bad candidate is polished up and trotted out in 2-4 years as the leader for the country, don't we have a right to know how they did last time?

You know, that is exactly what I was saying about PEO (President Elect Obama) a few months ago.

Luckily, there will be enough slow news days between now and 2012 so that we'll have a lot more insight.

-XC

Darcy said...

I just want to add that this only makes me pissed at McCain. The fact that he couldn't get these people - his people! - to STFU, even if there is a hint of truth to it, when there were far more good reasons for doing so is revealing.

Bissage said...

They want her broken with her mouth wide open 'cause she's this year's girl.

Ann Althouse said...

AlphaLiberal said..."Ann Althouse has this odd thing to say: 'Even assuming the stories are true, they don't have to be told.' Well, why not? There are people out there who think the truth has some type of , you know, "utility". (If you're not attracted to the truth on it's own merits). For example, if a bad candidate is polished up and trotted out in 2-4 years as the leader for the country, don't we have a right to know how they did last time?"

You're missing my point. I'm interested in knowing the truth, but an additional part of the truth is who is spilling secrets and why. Knowing that is also part of figuring out whether the stories are true. It's much more important to know which insider wants to destroy Palin than why or whether one time Palin came into the room wearing a bathrobe (or towel).

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann, we agree on something!

who is spilling secrets and why

And, when I saw the big HuffPost headline over the towel business, I groaned and told my dear wife they were going over the deep end. But other stuff in the article was interesting.

I hope it's no "ugly" if progressives enjoy the spectacle of Republican in-fighting to come. They have no leader and are forming a circular firing squad. That used to be us!

SteveR said...

Not that it will end anytime soon, but this sort of gossipy tripe is the result of a failed campaign apparatus and inept republican strategy. As has been said, trying to blame Palin is ridiculous.

As a general rule (as eveidenced by the bath towel/bathrobe story), stories told, often lose context, sublety, and factual accuracy.

Although I knew that Africa was a continent from playing Risk, I didn't know that Wilsonian thing.

junyo said...

There's a full court press to bury Palin. The topic on three morning talk radio programs in the NYC area this morning.

Why? For the same reason that after a coup you kill the old rulers children and loyal generals. No point in fighting someone twice. Palin stuck her head up, and the Obama camp correctly recognized and neutralized the threat during the campaign; they're just administering the coup de grĂ¢ce. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the GOP did the same thing with John Edwards, transforming him from a story of rags to crusading lawyer riches, to a good head of hair atop an ambulance chaser; then Edwards pretty much delivered his own death stroke.

Why would Republicans help? Palin made enemies in the Republican establishment in Alaska, and for the campaign managers and media people their viability i.e. income, is only as good ask their ability to deliver wins. If you can't win then you're useless... unless you can prove the candidate was fundamentally flawed. they're political ronin, and have no ideological tie to anything other than proving that it wasn't their fault, and enthusiastically supporting the new reality on the ground to enhance the chances of getting the next gig.

Ron said...

Ann, Alpha agrees with you! Time to throw in the towel. Or is it bathrobe?

Zeb Quinn said...

Cameron actually spilled the beans on himself from the getgo when he started off by describing the group within the McCain campaign who never wanted the Palin selection to begin with. What he went on to describe is how this same faction thereafter undermined Palin at every turn, and are now blaming the loss on her. Palin didn't lose this race. If anything, she is responsible for it doing as well as it did. If the blame is to be put on anyone within the McCain operation it should be on that group and all the other feckless losers McCain surrounded himself with.

TMink said...

"Why destroy Palin, a rising star in the Republican Party? Who wants her ruined?"

Jealous career RHINO campaign workers? Rats deserting a sinking ship?

I think Bissage nailed this one!

Many of the reports do not pass the smell test. The coming to the door in a towel story is pure titillation.

The numbers tell the story. Palin saved the Republicans a landslide loss.

Oh, and she is a Christian, and that creeps out a lot of moderates and liberals and progressives. Free thinkers, all of them. 8)

Trey

Leslie said...

I'm a university press editor who's been editing books and journal articles, etc., for almost two decades, and I bet that if you gave members of Congress and the media and the comedian talking heads, especially anyone who came on the political scene after 1985,a basic civics and geography test--and you could keep them from cheating--a high percentage of them would fail mightily.

What I despise above all is that Palin cannot face her accusers or even know exactly what it is she's being accused of. On Fox, Carl Cameron never gives anyone's name who's accusing her. (Frankly, I wondered during the wardrobe fiasco how the media got all the receipts for what she had bought. Apparently it was an inside job by people who had taken a ethically deal-breaking oath of silence!) It was evident from the beginning that Sarah Palin is smart but not an intellectual and that she's not someone who's in government because she has theories on things. So anyone talking to her back in August or September would have sensed this would have had to immediately ask themselves: can she handle the media? Apparently they said "no" but thought they could leave it at that. Now whose frigging fault is that?!?

I admit I am a fan. I think Palin has it in her to contribute something great, if not in government, elsewhere, but it is obvious from where I sit typing this that she always was and still is a diamond in the rough, something the McCain campaign claimed to want when they needed her but which they now callously, and in the most unpolished way, hold against her.

Maguro said...

Baseball analyst Bill James once observed that bad teams tend to place an inordinate amount of blame on their best players. The post-election finger-pointing among the McCain team follows that pattern.

Jen Bradford said...

I speculated here awhile back that David Brooks, Krauthammer and others probably got some of this off-the-record info about Palin's debate prep. Their certainty and abrupt disenchantment could have just come from watching the very bad interviews, but it felt like they knew more than they could say.

Frankly, even if the Africa/continent stuff is bogus, and even if the people leaking some of this stuff are jerks in search of a scapegoat, I think it's obvious that she was in no way prepared to lead this country. There's no crime in being provincial, but in 2008 it's a huge demerit for any candidate.

She came across as a bright woman who knew plenty about a few things, but didn't feel any humility about her intellectual limits. I don't know anyone whose intelligence I respect who isn't fully aware of how much he doesn't know.

Palladian said...

The message I'm hearing from both the floor-licking little weasels inside the McCain campaign and from the Obamabots is: "OK, little lady, you've had your little princess moment and got to play future Vice-President for a while. Now that's over and it's time to go back to West Cupcake, Alaska or wherever you're from and be quiet like a good little girl. We've tolerated you quite enough, honey. Time to let the men get back to being in charge, the way it should be."

Repugnant. Disgusting. But expected. I'm sure Andrew Sullivan is proud of his upstanding journalistic work during the election, helping to ensure that we didn't have to tolerate this uppity little breeder cunt any longer than we had to. But I wonder, will he still demand her baby's birth records?

Howard said...

From pieces written by people who have actually been with her when they interviewed her, the three I've read say that she's really smart, has near total recall, and has a college degree. All I can say is if she really thought Africa was a country send me to that college; I need degrees in Physics, an MBA, and a hot babe. In no particular order. I saw Cameron on O'Rielly and I got the feeling that he was so excited about having an exclusive he just bubbled over without checking anything. Enough about that passionless old man who dangled himself before us pretending he was running for president. We ran him; we sent totally corrupted self anointed conservatives to congress who sold all of us down the river; we demanded tax cuts without entitlement reduction; and as I posted on ...my blog: "The Bush administration, which took office as social conservatives, is now leaving as conservative socialists."

Oligonicella said...

Doesn't anyone here remember it was Drew Cary who stated accidentally that Africa was a country on Whose Line? Seems to have been lifted.

jen bradford --

"She came across as a bright woman who knew plenty about a few things, but didn't feel any humility about her intellectual limits. I don't know anyone whose intelligence I respect who isn't fully aware of how much he doesn't know."

Obama, presuming you respect his intelligence.

EDH said...

When I heard this about Palin, I knew I had heard something like this recently. Recycled storyline?

Paris Hilton: West Africa Is a 'Great Country'
Tuesday , March 25, 2008

Paris Hilton thinks West Africa is a "great country" ... only problem is, it's not a country.

While vacationing with her boyfriend, Good Charlotte rocker Benji Madden, in Johannesburg, South Africa, this past weekend, Paris was asked for her thoughts on South Africa. Her response?

"I LOVE Africa in general, South Africa and West Africa. They are both great countries," she said, according to various reports.

Paris almost got it right. While South Africa is a country, West Africa is not.

West Africa is part of Africa. It refers to the westernmost region of the African continent and includes 16 countries; Benin, Burkina Faso, the Ivory Coast, Cape Verde, The Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone and Togo.

Expat(ish) said...

I would expect anyone who can look at me and claim that Biden (Biden!) is qualified to be a VP and that Palin is not would have their head explode with cognitive dissonance.

If Joe came to the door from the shower with a bathrobe on, would it even be worthy of comment? Would Althouse bring it up? (Ok that was NOT an er*ction joke!) It's that awesome double standard again.

I worked my way through school, so I am pretty sensitive to how hard Palin worked to get a degree from a non-Ivy. I get the impression that she is completely surrounded by people who either borrowed it all or who got mommy and daddy to pay for it. So there is probably a pretty basic worldview mismatch there.

Finally, she has worked on her husband's fishing boat. The worlds most dangerous job is working fishing. So she's probably the only one in a 200 yard radius (Joe and Tito excepted) who has ever had a really stressful job. News Anchor is not stressful, ER Nurse is stressful.

It's not really amazing that these people had trouble with her.

Palin/Jindal 2012!

-XC

rcocean said...

Just CYA by McCain poltico's whose only loyalty is to themselves and maybe John McCain.

Its the McCainiacs that picked her at the last moment giving her no time to prepare. They are the ones that kept her from the press for two weeks. And they're responsible for choosing ABC and CBS as the roll-out interviews. Even more incredible, they allowed ABC and CBS to air *edited* interviews.

Cameron states Palin wanted to go on talk radio and BOR first. She was exactly correct. The bathrobe "scandal" simply shows how down to earth she is. She didn't have a flunky answer the door - she did it herself.

And I'm still suspicious about the whole $150,000 clothes thing. Where are the details?

1jpb said...

I think it's unwise when the Palin fans strongly come to her defense, without acknowledging the possibility that they overestimated her abilities. After a strong defense of Palin, couldn't you add a sentence that acknowledges there's some evidence suggesting that Palin was a flawed candidate?

Maybe, in some ways, these Palin defenders can't acknowledging Palin's weaknesses because doing so would require them to acknowledge that they were wrong themselves--they overestimated Palin's abilities to be VP.

Maybe, these defenders are head-in-the-sand types; oblivious to data that requires independent thinking and questioning of the right wing echo chamber.

For whatever reason there seems to be a fair number of Palin-the-Perfect deadenders around here.

Palladian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"I think it's unwise when the Palin fans strongly come to her defense, without acknowledging the possibility that they overestimated her abilities."

I wonder if Obama fans will have the wisdom to do the same about their candidate in a couple of years?

Doyle said...


I wonder if Obama fans will have the wisdom to do the same about their candidate in a couple of years?


Yeah yeah. Our guy's president. Your girl's a national joke.

Palladian said...

"Frankly, even if the Africa/continent stuff is bogus, and even if the people leaking some of this stuff are jerks in search of a scapegoat, I think it's obvious that she was in no way prepared to lead this country."

Good thing that we ended up with Obama in charge then! It's certainly been proven by his extensive management record and the media's thorough vetting that he's ready for the job!

"There's no crime in being provincial, but in 2008 it's a huge demerit for any candidate."

Tell me about it! I'm glad that all those intellectuals who've never really set foot outside of Manhattan or Washington D.C. other than to fly over the 57 states when they're on their way to LA saved us from having a provincial anywhere near a national elected office! We really dodged a bullet, which are those metal things that come out of those scary gun things. I heard they're really popular in the Midwest and the South, like in Kansas or Alaska or somewhere. I read about it in the New York Times.

Anyway, the audacity!

Palladian said...

"Yeah yeah. Our guy's president. Your girl's a national joke."

He's not actually President for a couple of months. What kind of provincial, uneducated rube are you? Didn't you take a civics class in middle school? Geez. Get a clue, bumpkin.

Anyway as I've said here before, shit-stick, he's not "your guy" anymore. He's our guy. He's responsible for us, and answers to us now, not just you.

Some of us suspect that our guy, formerly your guy, is already a national joke. We're all just waiting for the inevitable punch line.

Doyle said...

I can't believe Palladian denies that Palin is a total fucking idiot. The only reason she was even a governor is that the people of Alaska obviously have no standards at all.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Biden tells Katie Couric that FDR was giving fireside chats in television and BHO thinks there are uh....uh...ummmm...uh 57 states and the usual suspects have the audacity to say Palin is dumb? Biden can't say 5 words without coming off as a complete fucking idiot and they're still trying to tear the women down? Unreal.

As for the McCain insiders, let me say this. If I had been running his campaign I'd be doing my damndest to try and transfer the blame to someone else too. McCain ran the most disjointed, chaotic campaign in recent memory. Palin was a liability? They're kidding. McCain's rallies looked like a fucking graveyard until he put her on the ticket.

How McCain got to the top of the ticket is still a mystery to me but then considering the choices I'm honestly not sure who was better. If McCain's people truly are pissed that Palin was chosen over Lieberman than I am glad he lost because he clearly doesn't know who his supporters are.

Doyle said...

If you listen to the 57 states clip, he obviously meant to say 47. But the number before "states" is so often "fifty" that as he was trying to come up with the number he said "fiftyyyy.... seven states."

The difference between that and the Palin Interviews is the difference between misspeaking and being half-retarded.

Blue Moon said...

I thought Obama was the one that had the cultish followers!?

Doyle said...

I live in Arkansas.

Natch.

knox said...

Africa is not a continent, it's a quagmire.

LOL! Comment of the day.

Palladian said...

"I can't believe Palladian denies that Palin is a total fucking idiot. The only reason she was even a governor is that the people of Alaska obviously have no standards at all."

Yeah, yeah, we get it, skid-mark. You already twice made sure that a mere woman, Hillary and Sarah, didn't get a shot at a man's job. I'd say that you're satisfied, but you've been a self-satisfied prick since I first had the misfortune of encountering you here, so it's a given. Are you and Andrew Sullivan going to go on the road with a duo act, singing "It's a Man's World"?

Palladian said...

"If you listen to the 57 states clip, he obviously meant to say 47. But the number before "states" is so often "fifty" that as he was trying to come up with the number he said "fiftyyyy.... seven states."

Prepare yourself for this kind of microscopic excuse making, folks. We've got at least 4 years of it ahead.

"The difference between that and the Palin Interviews is the difference between misspeaking and being half-retarded."

HAHA, SHE TEH RETARD LIKE HER FAKE RETARD BABY!!!1

Hoosier Daddy said...

You're missing my point. I'm interested in knowing the truth

Ann, Biden thinks FDR was on television talking to the electorate in the 1930s. Does that bother you in the least that he's that ignorant and is a heartbeat away from the Presidency?

Palladian said...

"I live in Arkansas.

Natch."

Yes, we know how you feel about women who live or lived in Arkansas and have the audacity to challenge you on anything.

knox said...

More reasons to have utter contempt for the McCain campaign. All told, we are probably better off with a democrat screwing up the country than a pseudo-Republican.

Doyle said...

Are you and Andrew Sullivan going to go on the road with a duo act, singing "It's a Man's World"?

That actually sounds like fun! But my objection to Hillary wasn't that she was a woman it's that she was so wrong and so dishonest about Iraq. It wasn't a brainpower issue by any means.

With Palin, besides being a raging wingnut, there's obvious mental deficiency in the mix as well.

"In what respect, Charlie?"

knox said...

I take it back, every single one of Palladian's comments on this thread are "comment of the day."

Palladian said...

"Ann, Biden thinks FDR was on television talking to the electorate in the 1930s. Does that bother you in the least that he's that ignorant and is a heartbeat away from the Presidency?"

No, no! He just misspoke, Hoosier. You know! He's a Democrat, anointed by the Holy Messiah! He can't possibly be an actual idiot!

Palladian said...

"Are you and Andrew Sullivan going to go on the road with a duo act, singing "It's a Man's World"?

That actually sounds like fun!"

Which one is going to sing the soprano part? A toss-up, since neither of you actually have any balls. Maybe you can call Sarah Palin and borrow hers. Nah, she's going to need them.

"In what respect, Charlie?"

God forbid that uppity twat actually dare request clarification of an ambiguous question! The nerve of a woman speaking to a man like that!

Kevin said...

Sarah Palin was an honor student in her high school. Her parents insisted on good grades and her father was a high school science teacher. I doubt very much that someone with this background is misinformed that Africa is a country. It simply doesn't compute, sorry. This one should be filed along with her fake high school transcripts. It's also interesting that the accusers are kept anonymous - they are just "sources" who won't come forward and make their incredible accusations in the light of day.

The amount of slander that has been dumped upon this woman is sickening, and frankly, reveals the true tolerance and inclusiveness of the slanderers.

Doyle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Invisible Man said...

Yeah, yeah, we get it, skid-mark. You already twice made sure that a mere woman, Hillary and Sarah, didn't get a shot at a man's job.

Palladian, you're a feminist now. That sure happened quickly. I'm guessing you'll be fighting for quotas by the end of the year and burning bras.

rhhardin said...

Kissinger in the 1970's, ``This isn't Africa's century.''

Maltreatment is often the pulley on which good character is hoist into public view, just as another way to judge Palin.

Doyle said...

Palladian -

You really give feminism a bad name by pretending that the objections to Palin are inherently sexist.

She's. A. Moron.

Hoosier Daddy said...

“In Delaware, the largest growth of population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7/11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.”

Joe Biden should instead have been tagged to be ambassador to India based upon his keen insight and relationship with the American Indian (the dot not the feather version)population.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Doyle said You really give feminism a bad name by pretending that the objections to Palin are inherently sexist.

She's. A. Moron.


"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened,"' Joe Biden

Doyle, I have no doubt after Biden is out of a job in 2012, a man of his qualifications will have no problems finding employment in either the food service or housekeeping industries. Maybe one of those Indians in Delaware can give him a job at Dunkin Donuts.

Palladian said...

"Palladian, you're a feminist now. That sure happened quickly. I'm guessing you'll be fighting for quotas by the end of the year and burning bras."

I've always said I was a feminist. And I supported Hillary Clinton in the primary.

William said...

I think it is possible for someone to mistake southern Africa as a locality for South Africa as a country. My guess is that those who pass judgement on Sarah for this do not know in what province of Canada the Yukon is located....We all have different areas of expertise. What is widely known among academics is considered arcane trivia among others.

Doyle said...

LOL. Okay. Sarah Palin is very much in Joe Biden's league. She was just torn down by the evil librul media. Whatever gets you jokers through the day.

Palladian said...

"I'm guessing you'll be fighting for quotas"

What rock did you crawl out from under? Feminism is more expansive than "bra burning" and "quotas". You sound like a vintage 60s male chauvinist pig, if we're trotting out hoary old cliches.

dbp said...

We all just need to understand the "mind" of doyle and his kind.

You see, all Democrats are geniuses and so if they say something that seems stupid, it can all be explained as fatigue, misspeaking or subtlety.

Now, Republicans are all MORONS, so whatever they say (even if it happens by pure chance to be true) only proves how dumb and evil they are.

Got it?

Doyle said...


Now, Republicans are all MORONS, so whatever they say (even if it happens by pure chance to be true) only proves how dumb and evil they are.


Not all of them, just your favorites like George W. Bush and Sarah Palin.

PJ said...

After a strong defense of Palin, couldn't you add a sentence that acknowledges there's some evidence suggesting that Palin was a flawed candidate?

Happy to oblige. Palin was a flawed candidate. Of course it would have been much better if she had been in her second or third term as a popular reformist governor. The Couric interview was a dismal failure, and the candidate must accept a lot of the blame for that, even if a lot of the blame can also be attributed the McCain team's media strategery.

Also, unlike a more seasoned politician, Palin made it obvious when she was dissembling; she lacks the ability of a Joe Biden, for example, to look straight into a camera and project confidence while completely making stuff up in his supposed area of expertise.

Yes, she was flawed. They were all flawed. Would McCain have won with someone else? I doubt it. I think a case can be made that Mitt might have kept McCain from looking so clueless during the early days of the economic crisis, which is what doomed McCain's candidacy. Palin was no help there at all. Perhaps there's someone here who rejected McCain because of Palin but would have supported him with Mitt who would like to explore that idea.

But one needn't think that Palin was a flawless candidate to believe that she was a legitimate one, or to believe that the stuff under discussion here today is very likely to be ill-motivated BS.

Doyle said...

I think a case can be made that Mitt might have kept McCain from looking so clueless during the early days of the economic crisis, which is what doomed McCain's candidacy.

Agreed. Mitt Romney is a good example of a Republican who, while arguably evil, is by no means stupid.

Doyle said...

And for the record I don't believe the Africa thing. That's too good to be true.

vet66 said...

Let us give equal time to BHO who claimed he had been to 57 states and Joe "The Gaffe" Biden who unabashedly displayed his ignorance of everthing despite decades in government, a dual degree in history and poliSci, Law school degree/trial lawyer.

Where is the outrage and charges of sexism in calling out Palin and giving Biden a pass?

garage mahal said...

That didn't take long. Republicans are BACK!

Operation Leper.

We're tracking down all the people from the McCain campaign now whispering smears against Governor Palin to Carl Cameron and others. Michelle Malkin has the details.

Democrats are so screwed.

Jon said...

Funny how for all this anonymous trashing of Palin's debate prep, in the actual debate (which unlike the prep we are able to observe for ourselves) she did fine, against someone who had been involved in national politics for 36 years as opposed to 5 weeks. In fact, in that debate, it was Biden who made the eggregious factual errors.

Doyle said...

I think the failure of the 57 states thing to gain traction is due mostly to the fact that no one (as in zero people) actually believe that Obama thinks or has ever thought that there are 57 states.

Doyle said...

By contrast, the idea that Sarah Palin had never given much thought to the Bush Doctrine, or the idea that she doesn't read many newspapers, have more than a whiff of plausibility.

MadisonMan said...

I agree that Romney may have helped McCain with independent voters concerned about the economy -- but the base would have stayed home.

Therein lies the crux of the Republican Party's problem.

Arturius said...

Obviously some in McCain’s camp have and axe to grind or are scapegoating or most likely both. Palin isn’t a moron. No one climbs to the governorship of a state being a moron. What she isn’t is an intellectual and that’s not bad thing when considering Buckley’s famous quote about preferring government by the first 400 people in the Boston phone book than the Harvard faculty. I don’t believe the reports because they’re absurd on their face. In fact, I don’t believe any reports from ‘unnamed source(s) as such source(s) are just as likely to be the reporter’s version of Harvey the Rabbit. The past performance of the media tends to support to that theory.

I’ll agree Palin was not ready to be President, indeed she was the VP pick, but arguably no more ready than Obama who other than bringing charisma and excellent speeches is just as bereft of the qualifications one would expect of a candidate seeking that office.

Invisible Man said...

Funny how for all this anonymous trashing of Palin's debate prep, in the actual debate (which unlike the prep we are able to observe for ourselves) she did fine, against someone who had been involved in national politics for 36 years as opposed to 5 weeks. In fact, in that debate, it was Biden who made the eggregious factual errors.

If you mean by fine, she didn't pee herself and lost by 15 points to Biden then I guess she did fine. Look at least I'm not saying that she doesn't have some gifts when it comes to being a politician. She's attractive, telegenic and has some charisma, but those are all pretty superficial traits. I'd gather that if that debate was polled based on the radio version, she would have done even worse due to her utter lack of depth.

Arturius said...

I agree that Romney may have helped McCain with independent voters concerned about the economy -- but the base would have stayed home.

Therein lies the crux of the Republican Party's problem.


McCain was the problem, not the base. The bigger problem was the whole slate of GOP candidates to begin with as none resonated with the base except for perhaps Fred who unfortunately didn't resonate with the prospect of being President.

Arturius said...

I'd gather that if that debate was polled based on the radio version, she would have done even worse due to her utter lack of depth.

Not to belabor the issue, but the irony of ridiculing Palin when compared to the stuff that comes out of Biden's mouth is simply remarkable. But then as in football, you simply are programmed not to see the penalties your team commits but can call out with absolute clarity the other side's constant violations.

The Exalted said...

re: africa as a country, seems obvious to me that she just misspoke in debate or interview prep and referred to the "country of africa" or "we have to work with africa, and other countries" or some such. she obviously is aware that africa is not a country.

however, doesn't change the fact that she's an outright maroon.

SteveR said...

I'm sure there are insiders trying to pass off the blame, but seriously, would any republican candidate hire someone with "McCain 08" on their resume?

Shanna said...

I don't buy that africa crap and anyone who would vent about someone wearing a bathrobe is petty. WTF did that have to do with the race? Not a blessed thing. Maybe she thought it was rude to leave them in the hall.

Good lord people, did she not get enough s**t during the election? Leave her alone.

Jon said...

IM said: "If you mean by fine, she didn't pee herself and lost by 15 points to Biden then I guess she did fine."

In the Pew poll after the debate, 65% of debate watchers described her debate performance as "excellent" or "good". That's not much lower than as Obama's excellent/good score in his first debate with McCain (72%), and higher than McCain scored against Obama (59%).

In the CBS poll taken 10/3-5, her approval rating went up almost 10 points from where it was just before the debate, to where it was tied with Biden's.

In most polls, about half of debate watchers either called it a tie or said she won.

That's what I mean by "fine".

Donn said...

Not to belabor the issue, but the irony of ridiculing Palin when compared to the stuff that comes out of Biden's mouth is simply remarkable.

Exactly right.

John Stodder said...

If you listen to the 57 states clip, he obviously meant to say 47. But the number before "states" is so often "fifty" that as he was trying to come up with the number he said "fiftyyyy.... seven states."

There's Doyle, giving his kneepads a spin. Hey man, splurge, get a new pair.

I have to say, the Cameron report was shocking, in part because of where I was hearing it -- on Fox.

But after thinking it over, I have to say I'm a bit grossed out by the sight of yet another whore/reporter, carrying out the wishes of anonymous cowards with their own agendas -- without disclosing who is doing the denouncing.

It is long past time that the media stopped giving anonymity to sources unless the story is of the importance of Watergate or Iran/Contra. "She a moron," said an anonymous source is the kind of reporting that editors must henceforward rule out of bounds. Reporters should tell leakers of innuendo and catty gossip that they won't feel bound to conceal their identities. No matter what people think of Palin now, they would think far worse of the in the McCain camp if they knew his or her identity. Palin's career is damaged, but this person's would be destroyed, and rightly so.

John Stodder said...

Re: the bathrobe.

Lyndon Johnson used to make his aides follow him into the bathroom to continue meetings while he took a dump.

He also pissed on a Secret Service agent's leg.

Given a choice, I'd prefer Palin in terricloth any day. The McCain advance person who found that lovely image disturbing must be quite the political geek.

Arturius said...

Agreed. Mitt Romney is a good example of a Republican who, while arguably evil,

Unless you have been face to face with someone truly evil, such a statement only serves to discredit anything else you have to offer on well, pretty much any subject.

Arturius said...

however, doesn't change the fact that she's an outright maroon.

Just when I thought the irony could not get more evident.

Donn said...

JS:
But after thinking it over, I have to say I'm a bit grossed out by the sight of yet another whore/reporter, carrying out the wishes of anonymous cowards with their own agendas -- without disclosing who is doing the denouncing.

That's what I tried to point out to you last night. Someone then commented that JS is the best Dem commenter at Althouse, which I already knew....it was just that I didn't understand how someone so thoughtful could necessarily believe this unidentified source.

By the way, I do think that SP is most likely not the sharpest crayon in the box, the question is, does it really matter? Here I'm thinking about Reagan for example.

I agree with this comment by Ponnuru:

The trashing of her is unseemly, and some of the particulars—the bathrobe bit for example—don't seem all that important. But if it is true that Gov. Palin did not know that South Africa was a country on the continent of Africa, it is the type of information that voters should know before her career progresses. And I don't think, by the way, that most people on the Left fear her.

Arturius said...

It is long past time that the media stopped giving anonymity to sources unless the story is of the importance of Watergate or Iran/Contra.

I'm not sure I'd even extend it to that level. Memogate was a prime example of a media outlet bent on trying to change the course of a Presidential election.

Palin's career is damaged,

I'm not quite sure that is true. I think if she's defeated for a second term as governor then I'll grant you that. However, I suspect that she probably garnered more sympathy from her constituency due to the treatment she received not just from the media but from the elitist within the GOP.

The conservative base is the Joe the Plumber types and not, despite the conventional wisdom of liberals consist of George Will, Peggy Noonan, Charles Krauthammer et., al. These people are policy wonks and don't relate to average conservatives as much as they think. Black tie dinners and cocktail parties tend to insulate you.

El Presidente said...

The way the meeting should have gone.

Source: And she answered the door in a towel . . . ah, ah a bathrobe.

Cameron: Mmm

Source: And she was supposed to buy three outfits for the entire campaign.

Cameron: Mmm-huh

Source: And she didn't know that Africa was a Continent.

Cameron: Go sell this turd to MSNBC, they'll polish it for you.

El Presidente said...

An important lesson- bury your opponents after defeating them.

El Presidente said...

More data for people's prejudices?

PrestoPundit said...

So Ann, you think that Palin doesn't know that Africa is a continent.

Extraordinary -- totally unbelievable -- claims require extraordinary (and believable) evidence. You don't have any.

What I think that women who hate other women for political reasons are pretty disgusting.

Hoosier Daddy said...

John Stodder said Given a choice, I'd prefer Palin in terricloth any day. The McCain advance person who found that lovely image disturbing must be quite the political geek.

An anonymous source told me it was downtownlad.

former law student said...

This blabbing by Carl Cameron has given me a new appreciation and understanding of Sarah Palin, and a new disdain for the bumbling McCain campaign staff.

Palin's "problem" is focus. Almost all the successful bosses I've had have prioritized the things they've needed to know on their job over inessential facts. I'm not surprised that the competent Governor of Alaska has not thought much about foreign policy -- why would she? How would knowing the definition of the Bush Doctrine or American Exceptionalism have helped her govern Alaska? Lesson: don't disparage the traits that make a leader successful.

But she is obviously intelligent and can learn quickly. However, she obviously cannot learn everything she needs to know overnight. The McCain staff obviously attempted to forcefeed her information as if she were a foie gras goose. Lesson: Pick your talented and promising VP candidate far enough in advance to provide the necessary prep.

For goodness' sake, McCain had ample time to prep his VP -- from February to September. If he wanted to keep his pick a secret, he could have prepped several candidates at the same time. Lesson: Don't procrastinate.

Further, by trying to cram and coach her, they again fought her natural talents. It's like taking a natural .300 hitter and forcing her to change her swing. I remember when I was learning to bowl that the more advice I took, the worse I did. Naturally after a point you just want to tell them to shut up, especially once their prep process has made you -- a talented and skillful politician --look like an idiot.

Donn said...

Good points FLS.

John Stodder said...

Donn,

Like I said, I think my response was influenced by it being on Fox. It took me a while to figure out that Fox was precisely targeted.

Intelligence and education are two different things in my mind. I actually think Palin might be the sharpest crayon in the box. Elaine Lafferty, who I used to know a long time ago and who eventually became editor of Ms., wrote a piece on Daily Beast about how quick Palin is. Her stump skills are prodigal.

The simple matter is, she's spent most of her 44 years dealing with things other than world affairs. Running a family business while raising all those kids, and then becoming an activist/reformer at the state level probably precludes investing the time necessary to appear fluid on the kinds of things a president needs to know. She's an instinctive leader, which is probably the first prerequisite for electoral success.

Contrast Bill Clinton, who was smart and instinctive, with Hilary, who was merely smart.

The one national issue Palin seems to be educated about is energy. It was noteworthy that after Russia invaded Georgia, she was the only national figure I heard who zeroed in on its true global significance -- the pipeline. I imagine the energy issue will be her re-entry point. She's obviously on the right-wing side on the issue, but she also can't be accused of being in the pocket of oil companies.

Shanna said...

Naturally after a point you just want to tell them to shut up, especially once their prep process has made you -- a talented and skillful politician --look like an idiot.

I think it’s quite possible that this was the case, fls, and thanks for your comment.

It's been obvious for a while there was some dissention in the ranks of the MCCain camp. Losing will do that to you.

I especially was amused/disgusted by a comment from one of the 'sources' that she threw a “tantrum” when she saw the news every day. Would this by any chance be the period of time when people were speculating on her baby and calling him a retard, trashing her 17 year old daughter, calling her a hick and telling her she should stay home with the kids and leave the country running to the men folk? Well, hell yeah she was pissed. I was ready to punch a hell of a lot of people out, and they weren't even talking about me.

Cedarford said...

The early reports on Palin's intellectual shortcomings may have a degree of spin to them - coming from Republicans inside the McCain camp that saw her in action and apparantly weren't impressed. Then determined to make their case that she was Not-Ready-For-Primetime, a bit of a drama queen, and not fit to be Annointed leader of Republicans for the difficult rebuilding ahead. They probably feel they need to make that case because infatuated Fundies have begun touting "Our Sarah" as new Head of Party.

And believe she lacks the brains and tools to be such a standard-bearer when Republicans must look at past dogma and religious litmus tests that damaged them so - rather than dig in and deny they need serious intellectual and policy evolution. The problems are fairly serious - she refused to prep for the Couric interview and walked into "deer-in-the-headlights "disaster, then blamed staffers for "setting her up". The African story might be from her not recognizing S Africa is a country, rather than not knowing Africa is a continent. However, according to Cameron, she had huge knowledge holes elsewhere.
Asked by briefers about NAFTA, she knew Canada was in that thingy, but was unable to name any other country in NAFTA. She failed open on Constitutional questions and concepts like "American exceptionalism", "Wilsonianism", what Jacksonian Democracy was all about. Her knowledge of the ME was so sparse that to get her less vulnerable in the VP debate, they coached her to simply answer "The important thing is to never 2nd guess Israel" - which was a good idea because she had to use it 3 times.

Now, it is possible she is like Dubya - pretty intelligent but intellectually incurious about things outside her immediate circle of friends & family & ministers and their perspectives, work, and responsibilities. It is possible that she can go back to Alaska and get some good tutoring - presumably between time she spends raising young kids, goes fundraising in the Lower 48, and proving herself as Governor.

But many Republicans outside her "Our Sarah!" followers want to make the case that she is still unvetted, never acquitted herself well in an interview, and is a bit of a Diva and shopaholic.

And, intellectually, lacks the depth to lead a nation - no less admirable than other "regular folk", but you don't want "ordinary folk" in an extraordinary job of national leadership and being CiC. Not Sarah the Hockey Mom, Joe the Plumber, Harry the foot doctor, or Sparkles the Prostitute.

***********
pj - I think a case can be made that Mitt might have kept McCain from looking so clueless during the early days of the economic crisis, which is what doomed McCain's candidacy. Palin was no help there at all. Perhaps there's someone here who rejected McCain because of Palin but would have supported him with Mitt who would like to explore that idea.

I would have much preferred Romney or a caffeinated Fred Thompson as the nominee. Both might have eviscerated Obama on the experience and ties to unsavory people issues, both have records of building and managing national campaign organizations (whereas McCain failed dismally at executive management), and most importantly would have had an entirely different message than McCain..."I'm a war hero, I will fight, fight, fight for you on whatever my gut tells me is the right choice at the moment.." Romney and Thompson would have had a coherent Republican plan presented to the public and would have been talking more like Obama - using "We will change" instead of the McCain "I will fight".

I changed my vote to Obama. Palin was a factor, but the main one was I saw McCain had serious shortfalls as an executive leader, never had a coherent vision for the future, acted erratically and impulsively, and spoke in 20-year old talking points from an Age of Reagan long passed.

If Mitt was his VP, perhaps he could have helped persuade the most famous POW ever to build a good organization and craft a true vision - but unlikely, given McCain is even more stubborn and impulsive than Bush II. As his VP choice though, Romney sure would have helped in the economic meltdown - where Bush and McCain's inarticulateness and inattention to damage control pinned the whole mess squarely on Republicans in the eyes of the public. (Bush doesn't care anymore, McCain was working through the meltdown using his daily soundbites to pin Ayers on Obama - something he was comfortable talking about - financial stuff is just too "sideline" for a war hero to understand)

Now, I think the Team Obama had and the skill of Obama and the operatives was so superior to McCains effort that a VP Romney or a Thompson wouldn't have made a difference, given Republicans wanted to trade one unimaginative, impulsive jet jockey for the present failed jet jockey.
But Romney or Thompson as VP candidate could have confidently "taken the ball"
from McCain and gone On Point for the Party and explained why the meltdown happened, why it was a bipartisan failure, why certain fixes were in the average American's best interest. Both Romney and Thompson are enormously effective "explainers" - and lacking them - Obama&the Democrats worked relentlessly to pin full blame on Bush and the Republicans while McCain flailed cluelessly and Palin was still giving her "pit bull with lipstick set speech" and lines her handlers felt safe for her to read off the TelePrompter.

The end result was, IMO, public belief in full Republican culpability that Romney or Thompson could have mitigated down to "both Parties appear equally at fault, head must roll on both sides" in the public mind. Even Pastor Huckleberry would have been better in the economic cataclysm than McCain and the Hockey Mom were put together.

The consequences, IMO, would not have been VP candidate Romney or Thompson salvaging the unsalvagable McCain "He served!! He suffered!! He's Bob Dole the 2nd!!" quest to be President - but:

(1)Salvaging many downticket Republicans from defeat outside Fundie-Land - McCain and Palin's failure of leadership and not showing executive management ability helped the Democrats tar Republicans running for Congress and on State and local tickets as "the ones responsible".

2. Romney and Thompson might have helped prevent severe long-term damage to Republicans as the Party of the Economic Crash, Dems as the Party of the Steady Hand and Economic Recovery. By now, a lasting public meme has formed of Republican fatcats doing their family's futures in - in large part because McCain-Palin and the inarticulate Bush failed to use their bully pulpits to explain the co-culpability of Clinton appointees, Dems use of minority Party appointment powers to riddle Fannie and Freddie with their hacks. Laws Dems passed in the days before Republicans took power requiring more mortgages to minorities with lousy credit ratings, and just how many prominent Democrats and heavy Dem donor Wall Street Jews and WASPs at Lehman, Goldman-Sachs, Merrill, Countrywide were involved and their counterparts in Europe and at the London financial markets.

3. Romney might have helped calm the markets even as the underticket. Which, since value of equities and real estate is partially a function of confidence - might have mitigated each American's losses. (which was not helped by Mccain running around like a chicken with it's head cut off or a jet Jockey firing away at different targets right and left and killing lots of friendlies in the process)

Had Romney been the nominee himself, who knows? He is dorky. He would have started as the underdog as McCain did, but he might have emerged from the campaign with a wide perception with voters that he was the superior candidate to Obama - better vision, better knowledge of most things, better executive abilities, far better a debater than Obama. Who knows? Maybe we eventually will in 2012 if Obama doesn't meet the high expectations he set....

Donn said...

As always (well, with one exception :) excellent points JS.

I read that piece on SP when it came out, but for me, the jury is still out. For example, one of the questions that bothered me about the KC interviews was the simple question on what mags and newspapers she read. Does someone really need to be brought "up to speed on that?" As I said then, I think you can make the case that SP is "incurious," probably also something you could say about GWB.

By the way, your measured response on why you were going to vote for Obama almost convinced me to do the same. I wish all the Dem commenters here were as reasonable and rational as you.

Hoosier Daddy said...

FLS said For goodness' sake, McCain had ample time to prep his VP -- from February to September. If he wanted to keep his pick a secret, he could have prepped several candidates at the same time. Lesson: Don't procrastinate.

Well just another example of how slipshod his campaign was run yet it seems the focus is on how Palin destroyed his bid when if anything, she by all rights kept Obama from nearly running the table ala` Reagan in 1984.

It was noteworthy that after Russia invaded Georgia, she was the only national figure I heard who zeroed in on its true global significance -- the pipeline.

Yet it was more vital to know what magazines she read.

Donn said...

On the other hand, it was the way that SP was being treated on blogs and in the MSM that started me posting comments on Althouse (and this was after reading commenters here for about 2 years).

I mean, how can someone serve in the Senate for a 100 years, who is supposed to be this foreign policy expert, etc. etc. etc, get away with the dumb ass comments that JB gets away with every single day? I mean the bias in the MSM is what really pisses me off. So how can I trust anything they have to say about SP?

PJ said...

Cedarford -- thank you, that was just the sort of post I was hoping for. I'm not a fan of Mitt, but I found nothing to disagree with in your comment, and I haven't seen a better argument in his favor.

John Stodder said...

Timing is everything.

I am no fan of Mitt Romney. However, if McCain could have foreseen the Lehman Brothers' bankruptcy when he picked his veep, he might have swallowed his medals and picked him. Romney is much more knowledgeable in that area than anyone else in politics right now. When he picked Palin, energy prices seemed about to drive the campaign. If he'd known that oil would be back to under $100/barrel within a month, I'm not sure she would've been his first choice.

Anyway, I think a consensus has formed here: McCain was a bad candidate who would have been an unsatisfactory president. The Palin leaks are one more piece of a story that adds up that way.

Pogo said...

"McCain was a bad candidate who would have been an unsatisfactory president."

I agree, and I knew this when I voted for him, because the alternative seemed so very much worse.

I fear time will prove me right. "Unsatisfactory" will seem like a massive improvement to what lies ahead.

Whether Democrats ever take the necessary blame for the mortgage crisis and the subsequent recession won't matter much to us schlubs doomed to tough it out while they try to figure out how to spread our dwindling wealth.

I think all we'll get from BHO and Pelosi will be the repeated phrase "It wasn't my fault!!"

Shanna said...

For example, one of the questions that bothered me about the KC interviews was the simple question on what mags and newspapers she read. Does someone really need to be brought "up to speed on that?" As I said then, I think you can make the case that SP is "incurious," probably also something you could say about GWB.

In listening to an interview later, I think by that point she was so mad at the media (and with this new knowledge, possibly her handlers) that she saw a lot of questions as traps. Even if they were, that’s a bad answer politically. If she wanted to go on talk radio, they should have let her go. There was enough anti-traditional media sentiment that I don’t’ think most would have blamed her for it.

I mean the bias in the MSM is what really pisses me off. So how can I trust anything they have to say about SP?

Agreed. Especially when we're dealing with anonymous sources. Any trust I had for any of them is completely gone. Reagan said Trust but Verify. I say Verify then Trust.

jimspice said...

I had a girlfriend in college who went to Seattle and was disappointed she didn't get to see the White House. You know, they're both in Washington?

Very short relationship.

spice

Donn said...

Interesting analysis on the campaigns here.

blake said...

It's not quite the same, but I've often heard "African" referred to as a language. One of the worst examples was Atlanta newscaster, Tiffany Cochrane, explaining Kwanzaa as "Today is Kuuma, which in African means...." Swahili is AN African language, not THE language.

Not excluding the point of "Tiffany" being a moron but, of course, Afrikaans is a language, though one that would never feature the word "Kwanzaa".

Donn said...

I like this from one of the commenters at Brainbridge:

Social conservatives do not need to be abandoned, but some of their message needs to be blunted. I do believe that the left has created a new, and effective, caricature of the GOP - where the party was once called the party of the rich, it later became called the party of the big-government, southern-friend religious. That same southern-friend image turned off many suburbanites.

What we probably need now is a social conservative - someone with impeccable social conservative creds in their private life - who has strongly libertarian instincts for public policy. That is, there is nothing inherently wrong in being socially conservative in one’s own life - and in fact it is helpful in winning social conservative votes - but what the party really needs is a strong dose of western/rocky mountain libertarianism.


This describes my own views, both personally and about the Republican Party.

Also, the RP can also be called the pary of Business, and while this might be the best for the economy, too many people are pissed these days about corp. executive payouts. That was the first thing my sister and brother-in-law gave as their reason for not voting Repub.

Jen Bradford said...

Palladian, there are two commonly understood meanings of the word "provincial":
1. a person of local or restricted interests or outlook
2. a person lacking urban polish or refinement

I was talking about #1. (You seem a little preoccupied with #2.) Palin said, " “I’ve been so focused on state government, I haven’t really focused much on the war in Iraq." I found that horrifying. You want me to believe this woman was ready to be a commander in chief during one of the most complicated wars we have ever faced?

My support for McCain was premised on his greater understanding of American power and commitments/responsibilities in the world. He undermined my confidence by picking someone who hadn't bothered to educate herself about the wars we're fighting. You could argue that both Susan Collins and Olympia Snow are "provincial" (in the #2 sense), but neither woman is intellectually provincial. Big difference.

rcocean said...

Its funny how people can't stop blaming the VP for the loss. The only time McCain pulled ahead was after he picked Palin.

He was behind by 3-6 points before he picked Palin in July and August. He went ahead after picking Palin, then went off the cliff in late Sept with his stupid "Campaign Suspension".

Palin did fine in her debate and her Campaign speechs. McCain did poorly in this 3 debates and he was no more adequate in his convention speech.

When the team loses its not because of the assistant coach.

chickenlittle said...

rcocean wrote: Its funny how people can't stop blaming the VP for the loss. The only time McCain pulled ahead was after he picked Palin.

Those "people" are the same ones offended by the very people she energized.

The Dems in CA woke up with somebody different than who they thought they went bed with the night before.

Politics make strange bedfellows. Works both ways. Yay!

MadisonMan said...

rcocean, the Fox news anchor in the second video Ann linked -- the one that's still there -- points out that McCain's numbers started sliding from the post-Palin bounce about the time of the Katie Couric interview; that is, before the souring economy. So although the economy took him over the cliff, he was driving towards it, based on Palin's interview performance, before that. According to Fox TV, that is.

Anthony said...

For example, one of the questions that bothered me about the KC interviews was the simple question on what mags and newspapers she read.

I'm starting to suspect that she was trying desperately to avoid admitting that the read the NY Times and WA Post. Heh.

I saw Cameron on O'Reilly and couldn't believe it. I was furious. So furious I even sent them an email. Cameron was a tool and he didn't even know it. Or maybe he did know it and just doesn't like this little provincial witch either. BO'R actually looked rather uncomfortable.

Not that I put this kind of crap past Fox. They botched Katrina as much as anyone.

1jpb said...

A couple of you seem really impressed by Palin's mentioning oil when Charlie asked her about Georgia.

Actually, the full transcript shows something she said that wasn't aired. She said that we can't allow Russia to control Russia's oil.

Even if we would like to control Russia's oil, and we are meddling in that region to this end, I'm fairly sure we should keep this quiet. Was she repeating behind the scenes conversations? Or, did she just make this up on her own?

Whatever the case; this doesn't stand out as her finest hour.

And, for the record, BHO was actually the real leader here. He warned about the potential for a Georgia-Russia problem BEFORE it happened.

"On 23 July 2008 Senator Barack Obama stated “Over the last several weeks, Russia and Georgia have been engaged in a steadily more dangerous confrontation over two secessionist regions of Georgia -- South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Although these territories are located within Georgia's internationally-recognized borders, the Russian government seems determined to challenge Georgia's territorial integrity in both places.... As I stated in April this year, I am committed to upholding the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia. This commitment has long been a fundamental building block of U.S. policy, and it will not change under the Obama administration. I also affirm Georgia’s right to pursue NATO membership. This aspiration in no way threatens the legitimate defense interests of Georgia’s neighbors.... The Euro-Atlantic community must speak with one voice in helping to promote peace in this volatile region. As part of the de-escalation process, a multilateral peacekeeping force must eventually replace the Russian peacekeeping force currently deployed in Abkhazia."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/south-ossetia-9.htm

Cedarford said...

Anthony - saw Cameron on O'Reilly and couldn't believe it. I was furious. So furious I even sent them an email. Cameron was a tool and he didn't even know it.

IN fairness, Fox is just reporting on what's up with the buzz about major news stories coming up in Newsweek and in the Washington Post about "major malfunctions" within the McCain campaign regarding Sarah Palin. Fox is not a House organ of the Republican Party or the Fundie Base, much as Dems love to label it such.

In fact, about the only people that are the Fox counter example of numbnuts like Olbermann and Matthews are the ever dumb Sean Hannity and one Fox blonde on the morning show.

Cameron was reporting - independently confirming through different sources of various Palin foulups.

That true believers in "Our Sarah, Goddess of the unborn and surefire 2012 pick" are upset about this is understandable. Many women on the other side were in tears when John Edwards was discredited. It doesn't change the hunt of reporters on a hot story and who is behind the info coming out.

If anything, Cameron is far more objective and moderate than Newsweek, which described Palins going well beyond "here's a RNC credit card to buy 3 new outfits" into "A Wasilla hillbilly family's coast to coast shopping spree at Neiman-Marcus".

Now, there better be other reporting and articles on the more important failure, that of McCain to demonstrate he was anything other than a dismal candidate lacking executive management and vision and organizational ability and coherent thoughts - while milking his POW story as he has for 35 years.

The poor campaign of McCain should be what commands the ink of future books on the Republican side of the 2008 Election, not the Palin sideshow.
But for now, the juiciness of Palin's behind the scenes escpades, and her being cast as the New Head of the Republican Party by certain parties in the Base in Fundie-Land, make the stories irresistable.

Synova said...

She came across as a bright woman who knew plenty about a few things, but didn't feel any humility about her intellectual limits. I don't know anyone whose intelligence I respect who isn't fully aware of how much he doesn't know.

See, now, Jen... I disagree.

Because what was she getting in trouble for if it wasn't saying she didn't know things?

She didn't claim to be experts in things she wasn't expert in. She says she isn't an expert on the Iraq war and she gets reamed for it when she probably knows as much as anyone does, having traveled to Kuwait as CiC of the Alaska National Guard who were there and knowing from the time her son started to even talk about joining the Army that he might go there... but she wasn't following it closely and admitted that.

blake said...

Palladian, there are two commonly understood meanings of the word "provincial":
1. a person of local or restricted interests or outlook
2. a person lacking urban polish or refinement

I was talking about #1. (You seem a little preoccupied with #2.)


I think the objection that a lot of us have is the conflation of #2 with #1. And vice-versa: She was attacked for being stupid because she was a rube, and the truly stupid people who belong to the right cocktail party circuit are considered not narrow-minded--even though the minor intrusion of an outsider into their circle sends them into a tizzy.

Palin said, " “I’ve been so focused on state government, I haven’t really focused much on the war in Iraq." I found that horrifying.

People who like to get things done "focus" on those things they can do something about. You take this to mean that she didn't think about the War in Iraq at all, but I suspect she knew her son would likely end up, and she knew about as much as any political junkie.

You want me to believe this woman was ready to be a commander in chief during one of the most complicated wars we have ever faced?

Compared to the guy who got it so supremely wrong? The guy who wanted to give up? The unwinnable guy?

His apparent deep thought led him to bad conclusions, disastrous conclusions, even. I suspect his "deep thought" didn't consist of much more than "I want to get elected in this heavily anti-Iraq war neighborhood." But once having gone there, he'd surrender the war rather than change his position--even after proven so incredibly wrong.

People fetishize thought. Democrat Presidents, in particular, love to micro-manage the military with their deep thought, leading to all kinds of disasters.

My support for McCain was premised on his greater understanding of American power and commitments/responsibilities in the world. He undermined my confidence by picking someone who hadn't bothered to educate herself about the wars we're fighting.

So, you figure that 3 months wouldn't have been enough time to get up to speed? I mean, assuming McCain dropped dead on or before January 20th? Really?

You could argue that both Susan Collins and Olympia Snow are "provincial" (in the #2 sense), but neither woman is intellectually provincial. Big difference.

That goes along with the notion that Palin was an affirmative action pick. That any woman could have filled the same role. That's not the case.

Arturius said...

The very fact that Palin, even after McCain's defeat, still sends liberals frothing at the mouth with denunciations proves to me at least she was the right choice.

And I'll say it again, how anyone can question her intelligence while standing next to Joe Biden is beyond me.

knox said...

John Stodder,

Your intellectual honesty is heartening. I appreciate your thoughts on SP.

LoafingOaf said...

Palladian should spare us all this B.S. about how we're "sexist" because we happened to notice Sarah Palin was not fit to be Vice President.

The vast majority of the general population noticed this as well.

McCain's own staff noticed this as well.

Could it just be that the woman was not qualified for the office she sought?

The religious-right wing of the GOP has become so ridiculous. We understand you like the idea of a candidate who is from a small town, loves to hunt, and didn't abort her Downs Syndrome baby. But should she not also have knowledge about the issues facing our country? I'm supposed to listen to Sarah Palin yap about trade when she doesn't know what countries are in NAFTA? You insist I owe it to her and you (you being the religious-right) to RESPECT her? Respect is something you earn. Obama spent the last several years earning our respect, for example.

It is an insult to the American people to have put that woman on the ticket. We're not being "mean" to say so. If she had wowed us with her brilliance and expertise, people would respect her. We simply care too much about our country to let you yahoos recklessly put an unfit person into high office. It's not our fault McCain didn't vet her or that she thought she should run for VP without having bothered to educate herself in the areas she needs to have knowledge in order to be VP.

It's obvious Sartah Palin thought all she needed was a couple lame jokes about hockey moms, a wink to the camera, and a $150,000 wardrobe. Maybe she thought this was a beauty pageant? In other words, the wannabe Wasilla thought the American people were stupid. The religious-right wing of the GOP thought we were stupid too. Well, they fuck off now. I've been sick to death of that wing of the GOP for my whole life, and now they've finally exposed themselves once and for all as the jokes they are. Guess what? Keep purging the "RINOS" and the only state you'll win in 2012 is Arkansas. Bye bye

LoafingOaf said...

The wannabe from Wasilla, I meant. Yes, the religious right can fuck off now. Never liked them. Guess what? A lot of people who voted for Republicans over the years were only putting up with the religious right to win the elections. I won't put up with them anymore. They don't like me and I don't like them. Fair enough. So...congrats to President Barack Hussein Obama, Commander in Chief, Leader of the Free World!

JAL said...

Ann said: I'm not saying she doesn't deserve to be ruined.

Could you elaborate on what makes someone "deserve to be ruined?"

JAL said...

Doyle:

With Palin, besides being a raging wingnut, there's obvious mental deficiency in the mix as well.


How about elaborating for us, Doyle? Then you can clarify your progressive opinion, and at the same time define your bigotry.

Is the "obvious mental deficiency" a reference to a 44 year old having a Down Syndrome baby? Or that autism occurs in the Heath family?

You know, bigotry comes in many colors. Ugly in all of them.

Or do you have some special knowledge of a DSM-IV(R) diagnosis?

I think it safe to say, based on President-elect Obama's 2 autobiographies, one including some bizarre experiences that should make CPS sit up and take note, an anguished search for identity with a bigamous, abandoning, alcoholic father and a very disruptive childhood with significant separation from his mother, that there are some serious issues there.

How's that for an off the cuff diagnostic profile?

JAL said...

JS said: She's obviously on the right-wing side on the issue, but she also can't be accused of being in the pocket of oil companies.

Thanks for the kind thought JS, but she has already been accused of being in their pockets.

You see she has done business with them -- the Great Satans of the universe!! (Those who heat our homes, fuel our cars, make all those great little plastic Evian bottles possible, not to mention disposable diapers, and plastic for shoes for people who won't wear leather ... and on ... and on ...)

And in Alaska of all places! The horror! She's made deals with them!!

"Progressives" (what a weird word for them) who get all hung up and slur people who have to do the real work which makes our lives, our country and the world 'work' are just dandelion fluff.

JAL said...

I remember when the Duke rape scandal first hit the news (and for many weeks & months)that William Bennett wisely cautioned everyone to wait and see what would come out of it before jumping to conclusions.

He was right in ways which we never imagined.

I think the same thing goes here. We need to wait and see what happens.

What we do know is that Sarah Palin is someone who is an equal opportunity offender as far as party lines go -- and she is not cut out of the Washington insider cloth.

walter neff said...

Loafingoaf really does have a problem with women. And religious people. And people from out of the beltway incestuous circle jerk. Now he announces he is happy with his new socialist overlord. Enjoy my friend. You have left the Republican Party which I do not believe you were ever a part of, but to take you at your most dubious word, so long and do not let the door hit you in the ass. You will not be missed.

1jpb said...

JAL,

Do you need to start off so far in the hole by getting simple facts wrong?

You immediately reveal the fact that you're regurgitating talking points rather than making conclusions based on your own knowledge and thinking.

You may be surprised to learn that your poorly disguised regurgitation is boring. I can go to the original professional-(and hobby)-conservative sources of the opinions that you're trying to claim as your own. And, while the originators are not shy about manipulating and misrepresenting facts to help their cause, they are fairly likely to get basic, unimportant facts correct. But, apparently even these basic, unimportant facts can be lost in your sloppy regurgitation.

How many autobiographies?

chickenlittle said...

1jpb wrote: How many autobiographies?

Not just one, but two I believe. And what significant legislation did he write again?

Jon said...

Madison Man said: "rcocean, the Fox news anchor in the second video Ann linked -- the one that's still there -- points out that McCain's numbers started sliding from the post-Palin bounce about the time of the Katie Couric interview; that is, before the souring economy. So although the economy took him over the cliff, he was driving towards it, based on Palin's interview performance, before that. According to Fox TV, that is."

The Fox News anchor is wrong. The stock market meltdown (and McCain's poll slide) began on with the Lehman Brothers collapse on Sept 15. That was the day that McCain declared, in response to the collapse and tanking market, that the "fundamentals of the economy were strong".

The Couric interview began airing Sept 24.

rcocean said...

According to RCP McCain was already 3 points behind on Sept 24th, when he announced his campaign suspension & the Couric interview aired.

He continued to slide thru October as people saw him and Obama -side by side - in three debates.

But don't blame McCain - he was just running for President.

TMink said...

Doyle, she was a national merit scholar. This means she scored high enough on her PSAT to qualify for admission at schools like Tufts, Vassar, UVA, and Vanderbilt. These are school just under the top tier. And this is the minimum estimation.

As a sophmore, you have to have average scores in the 97th percentile, minimum, to qualify. This is not a normal sample, as it is cherry picked from people wanting to attend college. If it were everyone, her 97th percentile would push her IQ up to the 130 range. But it is not everyone, so we know that her IQ is above that.

And that is if she scored the minimum. So the minimum statistically supported IQ for Governor Palin is 130. This is a completely conservative estimation, cause well, I am a conservative! 135 could easily be justified. That is Mensa grade.

So the math does not support you.

Is there perhaps another reason for your mathmatically incorrect estimation of her intelligence? Maybe a systemic bias against Christians and rural people?

It does not suit you.

Trey

LoafingOaf said...

walter: Loafingoaf really does have a problem with women.

Why does one have a "problem with women" simply by noticing that Sarah Palin was unfit to be VP? It's not my fault she ran for VP and didn't know what countries are in NAFTA. It's an insult to me and all Americans to ask me to vote for such an ignoramous.

And, walter, I don't give a shit about the Republican Party or any political party. I give a shit about the United States of America. Country first! That's why I voted for Obama. Sarah Palin can go the fuck back to Alaska with her $200,000 wardrobe and shoot more moose, Thank God she ain't gonna be VP to an elderly Prez. (But I do feel sorry for the moose. Why does she have to shoot a beautiful moose? Why can't she just leave them alone?)

AlphaLiberal said...

Wow! Campbell Brown really nails it!

Which is why I find it so stunning that the very people who introduced us to Sarah Palin… who told us she would make a great Vice President… have now turned on her with a vengeance.


More at the link.

LoafingOaf said...

tmink: It's not about her intelligence. It's about her IGNORANCE.

She doesn't know shit about shit!

She didn't even know what countries are in NAFTA.

Spare me the bullshit. The woman was unfit for the office. Get a grip, face reality, and digest the indisputable fact that McCain picked someone that no one in their right mind would consider fit for the vice presidency. Anyone who tells me otherwise is a jack-off. I think a VP ought to know what countries are in NAFTA. I know 12 year olds who can state what countries are in NAFTA. SO STOP ASKING ME TO VOTE FOR IGNORANT PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE ANTI-ABORTION. Thanks....

LoafingOaf said...

BTW...if I were anti-religious people I wouldn't have voted for Obama, who happens to be a religious person......

The Exalted said...

As a sophmore, you have to have average scores in the 97th percentile, minimum, to qualify. This is not a normal sample, as it is cherry picked from people wanting to attend college. If it were everyone, her 97th percentile would push her IQ up to the 130 range. But it is not everyone, so we know that her IQ is above that.

And that is if she scored the minimum. So the minimum statistically supported IQ for Governor Palin is 130. This is a completely conservative estimation, cause well, I am a conservative! 135 could easily be justified. That is Mensa grade.


this is just unadulterated bs. for one, i find no support for your assertion that palin was a national merit scholar. two, even if she was, and she wasn't, i'd imagine her bouncing around august institutions like the university of idaho would be a better indicator of her intelligence. and three, the PSAT does not purport to nor does it measure your IQ.

Shanna said...

Keep purging the "RINOS" and the only state you'll win in 2012 is Arkansas. Bye bye

WTF is your obsession with Arkansas? We vote dem in all the local races, senate and congress most of the time.

Republican said...

Didn't Governor Palin get slimed by her critics for praising an African witchdoctor preacher from Kenya?

She surely knows a little something about Africa, if her critics were to be believed.

The campaign staffers who are now smearing Governor Palin, are known by name to anyone who has been following their antics since Palin entered the picture.

A little research will tell you everything you need to know about their motivations.

Of course the information will have to be gathered by bloggers (as usual).

Omaha1 said...

To me it is beyond contemptible that these beltway leeches are now trying to blame their own failures on Sarah Palin. She was the only bright spot in McCain's lackluster, disjointed campaign.

If the MSM and etablishment Republicans want to label her as an ignorant hick so much the better. That strategy always works so well for them.

If I were Sarah Palin I would hit the books and get ready for 2012. As an anti-establishment, DC-outsider type candidate, I think she would do well on her own, especially without the "help" of the hapless McCain campaign staff. Tell the stupid RNC folks to kiss off.