September 3, 2008

3 questions about Sarah Palin the Obama supporter should not want to ask.

According to David Bernstein:
(1) How can she do her job as vice-president and take care of her kids?
Because Obama has kids, so the only way to ask the question is with an anti-feminist assumption. Obama supporters are tempted to make a Down Syndrome distinction and to emphasize that the decision to have the child entails a commitment to spend extra time on it, but that only forefronts the disagreement about abortion -- for her, there was no choice -- and highlights the harsh reality that (some of those) who accept abortion think it's a good idea to discriminate against the (unborn) disabled. None of that is very pretty. And yet, planting seeds of doubt is all that is needed. You can believe that an anti-feminist argument is wrong and even think that it will trigger a strong counter-argument and still think it might work as it plants doubts in some voters' minds and decide to do it anyway, because that's how much you want to win. Just look at the doubts the Clinton campaign tried plant about Obama in minds that they must have hoped had a place where racial prejudice could grow.
(2) What makes anyone think that Palin has enough experience to be "one heartbeat from the presidency?"
Because it points up that Obama, with his corresponding lack of experience would actually be the President.
(3) Is Sarah Palin's church/pastor nutty?
Because McCain supporters would love to bring back good old Jeremiah Wright -- American chickenssssssss and all.

Bernstein's points are good. And yet, Bernstein supports McCain, right? Why is it a McCain supporter who is giving this advice. Why should Obama supporters take this any more seriously than they take the bogus advice they are dispensing about how Palin ought to drop out for her own good?

ADDED: Bernstein isn't a declared supporter of McCain's.

182 comments:

bleeper said...

And yet ask they do...

Ben (The Tiger) said...

It's more a way of taunting the Obama supporters -- telling them just what the McCain folks will do when they do what they're going to do anyway...

mcg said...

Hmm. I was going to make a comment but I don't know what the politically correct substitute for the "briar patch" allusion is.

Salamandyr said...

I think Bernstein is mistaken for one very simple reason. The people who will ask these questions are the same ones who haven't been asking those questions of Obama for the past year or so. The gatekeepers of the media cannot be trusted to note that the mote in Palin's eye is a beam in Obama's.

Harry said...

Maybe

a) Bernstein thinks that the GOP response to these questions will be less effective than he describes and is trying to deter them by puffing up scary consequences.

b) Bernstein thinks GOP folks are worried about these questions and wants to comfort them.

c) Bernstein thinks he is the Dread Pirate Roberts - "I say don't ask these questions and they will suspect I am feeding them really bad advice, so they will ask them, but they'll know it's a trap, so they won't ask them, but they know I know they think the questions are a trap...."

Trevor Jackson said...

Can we ask her whether she wants to get into a land war in Asia?

Bissage said...

Why should Obama supporters take this any more seriously than they take the bogus advice they are dispensing about how Palin ought to drop out for her own good?

Maybe because David Bernstein is smart and principled and believes in the power of reasoned argument and the processes of American Democracy?

Call me crazy.

Harry said...

You mean another land war in Asia, in addition to the two we are fighting now?

former law student said...

1. A non-issue. Obama has publicly thanked Michelle's mom for providing backup child care, saying that he could not have run without her help. But Mrs. Palin has more children than Obama: one of whom is an infant, who is in fact a special needs infant. Plus the older kids seemingly need supervision. So this is a reasonable question for Obama to ask.

2. I agree that comparing their (lack of) experience levels is not a win for Obama.

3. This is not a win for Obama, either, because only a Jew not for Jesus would consider a Jew for Jesus to be nutty.

Nichevo said...

The Big Muddy? The brutal Afghan winter? The mother of all battles?

Trevor Jackson said...

Ha ha, Harry. Yes. Or perhaps the meaning of the word "inconceivable."

Roger J. said...

mcg: you are referring to Joel Chandler Harris and song of the south? Its a tarbaby we are talking about. Screw political correctness.

hdhouse said...

shucks, i would ask about this picture:

http://www.geocities.com/mediasmart416/ Palin.html

Nichevo said...

Oh, "the surge."

wanderlust747 said...

3 things her supporters should stay away from:

1. babies
2. abortion
3. babies

cause they detract from

1. the economy
2. the war
3. the economy

unless they think they can win the culture war.

wanderlust747 said...

i meant HIS supporters..

Roger J. said...

HD--if thats the tee shirt pic, covered on the other thread. If not, bad link

Meade said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Peter V. Bella said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mcg said...

Roger J, yes that's it. But I'm not sure if tarbaby fits as well. "Please don't throw me in the briar patch!"

MadisonMan said...

Here's a good question for her: You have been quoted as extolling Alaska's clean air. What steps will you take to reduce the growing emissions from China that increasingly pollute the air on the west coast of the US?

But really, if Obama is asked the kid-minding question (he has been already, I seem to recall), why can't Palin be asked?

Meade said...

"How can she do her job as vice-president and take care of her kids?"

They should both withdraw. They're both young. They can come back and apply for the job when their children are grown.

What we have are two candidates who are not ready to be President. Neither has the experience or competence required for the job. Both have young children who deserve more of their attention than they will receive if elected.

Let McCain run against Biden and be done with it.

Roger J. said...

Ahhh--the tarbaby was one of the stories; Br'er Rabbit asked not to be thrown in the briar patch

Roger J. said...

Meade I was unaware that grown children was one of the constitutional requirements for running for the presidency. Looks like some want to add an upper age limit and grown children to age and nativity.

AlphaLiberal said...

We call that a "concern troll." They're trying to make it seem as if we're pushing these topics. It's clearly an orchestrated effort by Republicans to create a false impression.

We're not! The Republicans are!

And this is fracken hilarious. Open mic time!.

Man, this has gone beyond absurd. It's like the Republicans are having a massive strawman argument.

Kovacs said...

The experience question is a net loser for Palin because we've had more than a year and a half to get to know Obama. So people have already had plenty of time to decide whether Obama's experience is a real concern for them or not. Palin, on the other hand, was completely unheard of by the vast majority of Americans before last week, so we're being asked to accept her experience on faith.

Plus, the point of the experience question is that John McCain can't sensibly claim that Obama isn't ready for the world stage but that Palin is. His pick of Palin demonstrates that he doesn't actually take the experience question that seriously. Thus, it calls his judgment into question, too.

A cruelly neutral observer would have to conclude that McCain stands to lose more on the experience question than Obama does.

Meade said...

Roger, What does it have to do with the Constitution? They're asking voters to hire them to do a job.

Henry said...

They should both withdraw. They're both young. They can come back and apply for the job when their children are grown.

That reminds me of an old joke. Maybe you've heard it.

An old couple go into the lawyer's office. "We want a divorce," announces the old lady.

"What?" says the lawyer. "How old are you two?"

"I'm 90 and he's 93."

"How long have you been married."

"65 years last month."

"You've been married 65 years and you want a divorce? Why do you want a divorce now?"

"We wanted to wait until the kids were dead."

peter hoh said...

Here's my question for Palin: You have way more executive experience than John McCain. How come you're not at the top of the ticket?

Relax, it's a joke.

tdocer said...

"...who is in fact a special needs infant. Plus the older kids seemingly need supervision."

FLS--how many kids you got? How many teenagers? Special needs kids?

katherine said...

The best thing Obama supporters can do is just stay out of the way.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Why is it a McCain supporter who is giving this advice. "

I think I can answer this one very simply.

By it coming from a McCain supporter, it becomes significantly less likely to be followed by a McCain opponent.

Meade said...

"We wanted to wait until the kids were dead."

Good joke. Try it this way: We were waiting for the kids to die.

AlphaLiberal said...

peter hoh cracks wise:

"Here's my question for Palin: You have way more executive experience than John McCain. How come you're not at the top of the ticket?

Relax, it's a joke."

Ohhh... Good one! I think I'll use it!

Roger J. said...

Meade, perhaps I didnt understand your point. Palin and Obama should voluntarily remove themselves from politics (or just competing for the presidency) until their children are grown? My point was that following your suggestion exceeds the strictures of the constitution. Would you advocate for an amendment restricting a candidate for presidency to have adult children? or just in the case of these two.Interesting idea, but I dont see either one doing it.

Paddy O. said...

Meade I was unaware that grown children was one of the constitutional requirements for running for the presidency. Looks like some want to add an upper age limit and grown children to age and nativity.

Well, there's some space for these since having kids in uniform and having active duty military experience are apparently no longer required for the job.

Paddy O. said...

How come you're not at the top of the ticket?

She will be. By and by. Give it 4 or 8 years.

Meade said...

No, Roger - no amendments. I'm just suggesting what I'd like to see happen. Whether or not they take my advice and withdraw, in the end it's up to the electors, in which case, in the spirit of Peter's comment, I would ask the Democrats to flip their ticket.

Duscany said...

If it was irresponsible for McCain to pick Palin, it was equally irresponsible for the Democrats to pick Obama. Neither one has the experience to be president.

Not that this is anything new. Back in 1956 John F. Kennedy ran for vice-president. His experience then was not much different than Palin's now.

SteveR said...

Plenty of slippery slopes to go around this year. The SiteMeter will getting a workout.

This much I do know as the husband of a woman with three children: nothing, nothing I have ever seen, comes close to the instinct to protect her kids. You caught a glimpse of that in 2004 when Edwards (Elizabeth and John) made some questionable, but not terribly malicious comments about Mary Cheney and got Lynne Cheney riled up. They don't want to between a mama bear and her cubs.

Peter V. Bella said...

The real question is what will Obama and his supporters do if Palin hits a grand slam tonight? Their vicious smear campaign failed, they cannot criticize her on experience or qualifications, and everything else they have tried has deflated. What oh what will they do if she really floors that convention and ignites the people at home tonight?

former law student said...

how many kids you got? How many teenagers? Special needs kids?

Do you think these are non-issues?

Teenage supervision:

The older brother of a friend of mine would have sex with his girlfriend every day, after school -- school let out at 3, but mom and dad didn't get home till 6. I was over at my friend's house, playing, when his brother's girlfriend sleepily came out of his room, wrapped in a sheet, to use the bathroom. I learned this was a daily ritual. A woman I worked with left work at 2:30 every day so she could be home with her boys -- 9th and 11th graders -- because unlike younger children they could get into serious trouble. Another woman I worked with had married an older man, with adolescent boys. After several times being awakened in the middle of the night to bail her stepsons out of jail, she decided not to give birth to anyone.

Special needs kids

A good friend of mine has an autistic child, diagnosed as a toddler. So I have some notion of how much effort that takes. And David, a kid a year behind me in school, was a high functioning Down's syndrome kid.

AlphaLiberal said...

Here's a question I have for Sara Palin:
"What do you have to hide that you're refusing to cooperate with the legislative investigation? Or that the only investigation you will cooperate with is one run by your hand-picked appointees?"

She sure is an autocrat!

Henry said...

Good joke. Try it this way: We were waiting for the kids to die.

That's definitely better.

From my point of view, nobody should run for president. What a crappy, thankless, life-consuming, soul-destroying job it is.

But I'm not a politician.

And I'm sure there are some perks.

Here's the most obvious: If McCain wins, Palin gets a $125,000 salary increase. You can buy a lot of special-needs infant support with $125,000.

AlphaLiberal said...

"You caught a glimpse of that in 2004 when Edwards (Elizabeth and John) made some questionable, but not terribly malicious comments about Mary Cheney and got Lynne Cheney riled up. "

I don't think that riling was sincere as the Cheneys, themselves, had raised it.

It's just more Republicans playing the victim, as they're doing all this week.

Meade said...

duscany said...

Not that this is anything new. Back in 1956 John F. Kennedy ran for vice-president. His experience then was not much different than Palin's now.

Good point. And contrary to popular opinion, JFK was not a very good president. Nixon would not have blundered into Vietnam.

Trevor Jackson said...

Folks, if you haven't clicked on AL's link at 3:29 (the second one), please do so. I know it's asking a lot, but you'll be rewarded with Peggy Noonan calling McCain's pick of Palin "bullshit" and Mike Murphy calling it "cynical" (there's that word again!).

Henry said...

alphaliberal -- in your list of good questions for Sarah Palin you forgot this classic: When did you stop beating your husband?

Roger J. said...

OK--Got it, Meade, thanks. Sorry to be dense--its almost quitting time here. I gotta tell you, though. I prefer Obama to Biden were I forced to vote for one of the two.

Meade said...

Good one, Henry!

Methadras said...

If this is the meme that the left has against Palin, then, in short, they have nothing. I was watching Gingrich on MSNBC last night and he eviscerated Ron Alan that was asking him this stupid and dumbfounding question. And Olberdouche looked stupid once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkaKwJ9eOUU

Methadras said...

AlphaLiberal said...

Here's a question I have for Sara Palin:
"What do you have to hide that you're refusing to cooperate with the legislative investigation? Or that the only investigation you will cooperate with is one run by your hand-picked appointees?"

She sure is an autocrat!


Are you finished with your meme now?

Lem said...

And yet, planting seeds of doubt is all that is needed. You can believe that an anti-feminist argument is wrong and even think that it will trigger a strong counter-argument and still think it might work as it plants doubts in some voters' minds and decide to do it anyway, because that's how much you want... your vow of cruel neutrality to produce.

Not that there is anything wrong with that... Not at all ;)

Chris said...

It's advice the way the NYT's advice to McCain is advice. Bernstein himself wants these issues highlighted--that's why he's highlighting them!

peter hoh said...

My cheeky question: Governor Palin, you have way more executive experience than John McCain. How come you're not at the top of the ticket?

Paddy O @ 3:45: She will be. By and by. Give it 4 or 8 years.

My cheeky question #2: Do you think it's sexist that you have to wait 4 or 8 years to really smash through the glass ceiling?

AlphaLiberal said...

Speaking of JOhn McCain's lack of executive experience, how about his lack of real world experience?

John McCain is a guy who, I believe, has lived off of the government his entire life.

Has he ever drawn a private sector paycheck? (Allowance from the wife doesn't count!)

Paddy O. said...

Teenage supervision:

Do her kids get secret service protection?

I think that's a whole lot of supervision.

Roger J. said...

Trevor: isnt this pretty much like Carville and Begala complaining about Obama? If Obama doesnt care what the Clintonistas say about him, I doubt John McCain particularly cares. Most of us understand that there are different "camps" within the republican party just as there are within the democratic party. This "revelation" does not impress me as a bombshell. I think McCain will manage to get thru it.

Meade said...

roger j. said...
I prefer Obama to Biden were I forced to vote for one of the two

Ha! Good that you will not be forced, Roger. A vote for Obama or Palin would be a vote for someone who lacks good parental judgment.

Lem said...

John McCain is a guy who, I believe, has lived off of the government his entire life.

Where has McCain been?

Wow.

Paddy O. said...

Do you think it's sexist that you have to wait 4 or 8 years to really smash through the glass ceiling?

cheeky answer:

Oh sure, but she wasn't running for President this time around, so it's more of a passive sexism.

Not like the active sexism of the Democrats specifically rejecting the woman, and leaving her out in the cold. If Ferarro is any indication it might be well over 20 years until another Democrat woman gets as close as Hillary, so 4-8 years isn't all that long.

At least there's movement in that pipeline on the R side of things.

peter hoh said...

Alpha, that's a terrible smear. Before he ran for Congress, he had a job working for a beer distributor.

Paddy O. said...

has lived off of the government his entire life.

"the government" might be better phrased "a government". He mooched off the Vietnamese there for a number of years around midlife, don't forget.

kentuckyliz said...

I think it would be an incredibly enriching environment for a special needs child to grow up with their mom being Vice President. There's probably lots of help available (supportive services for special needs kids) and perhaps better quality in DC than what's available in AK. It would probably be the more merciful thing to send this kid to DC than not to.

When I was 17, I would have laughed in my mother's face if she tried to hire a babysitter or babysit me herself. She knew better, too. She held me accountable for my actions and decisions. And if I wanted to sneak out and fornicate, by golly I did. Nothing different than what she did at 17--doing "her bit for the war effort." LOL

Go on and keep telling all the working mom voters that they're bad mothers and should be home babysitting their older teens.

The nutroots implosion is highly amusing.

Chris said...

"Do you think it's sexist that you have to wait 4 or 8 years to really smash through the glass ceiling?"

"Well, John had to wait 5 1/2 years to get out of Hanoi, so I'll cut him some slack."

ricpic said...

Feminists may believe that the weight of child-rearing should fall equally on women and men but nature says otherwise. How else explain the agonizing guilt that grips mothers of young children who want to have it all, insist on having it all, but then are torn apart by the demands of office time when everything inside them screams out to be with their children? The fathers of young children suffer no comparable inner conflict.

Trevor Jackson said...

Roger J said, "isnt this pretty much like Carville and Begala complaining about Obama?"

It's a fair question. Mike Murphy could have some sour grapes: He was an advisor to Romney until a couple years ago. Noonan may have been on her third martini.

But this is off-mic stuff from people who make their living off reading the tea-leaves. Maybe this just confirms how "maverick-y" McCain really is. Either way, pretty funny to catch these folks with their pants down.

Meade said...

kentuckyliz, does your mother know you're posing half nude on the internet?

In seriousness, nothing wrong with being a working parent but, in my opinion, the presidency is too big a job as it is. Finish rearing your kids, then apply for the top job.

That's just my own personal family value and it evidently varies from ricpic's.

Joan said...

The experience question is a net loser for Palin because we've had more than a year and a half to get to know Obama. So people have already had plenty of time to decide whether Obama's experience is a real concern for them or not.

This argument cracks me up. How many people voted for Obama? 18 million? What fraction of the total electorate is that?

It's true that the Democrats had a particularly energetic primary season, and had a lot more involvement than is usual. But the reality is, the majority of people simply haven't been paying much attention. They heard a speech by Obama and liked him and voted for him. Now, after the conventions, is when everyone really starts putting some thought into it. The general election is only 2 months away.

The idea that Obama has been vetted by his primary campaign is ludicrous. Almost as funny as the idea that the experience argument is a net loser for Palin. Newt Gingrich's YouTube clip on this topic sums it up perfectly.

SteveR said...

Alpha: I did not raise the issue of Mary Cheney and Lynne Cheney to make a political point, its a pretty universal effect and as you noted not entirely justified, in that case. But nonetheless, mothers will react strongely to defend their children, and will be inclined to sympathize with another mother in that position. I just think they would be wise to keep away from the entire subject no matter.

Roger J. said...

Trevor: might want to read Peggy Noonans piece on bubbleheaded journalists in the WSJ today (opinioinjournal.com). She rightly counts herself as one, BTW. I read the bubbleheads but pay no attention to them--they either reinforce my opinions or get me riled up! The only tea reader that I like is Michael Barone. him I listen to.

Michael said...

Anybody read this?

Wall Street Journal columnist and former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan and former John McCain adviser, Time columnist, and MSNBC contributor Mike Murphy were caught on tape disparaging John McCain's selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate.

"It's over," Noonan said.

When Chuck Todd asked her if this was the most qualified woman the Republicans could nominate, Noonan responded, "The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives. Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and that's not what they're good at, they blow it."

Murphy characterized the choices as "cynical" and "gimmicky."

AlphaLiberal said...

Paddy O:
""the government" might be better phrased "a government". He mooched off the Vietnamese there for a number of years around midlife, don't forget."

P.O.W.
P.O.W.
P.O.W.

Good parrot. Have a cracker.

ricpic said...

I don't see how we disagree, Meade.

With rare exceptions men aren't all torn up about a job that keeps them from their young children in the way women are. I think you'd agree that the presidency qualifies as that kind of a job, a time consuming job. But maybe Palin's a great delegator, almost as great as Reagan was. ;^)

Palladian said...

Do you have a job, AlphaLiberal? I mean, you've posted more comments in the last few days than Iraqi children killed by US sanctions in the 1990s. Maybe this is your job.

tdocer said...

FLS, I think they're pretty much non-starters, yes.

Teenage supervision:

Ok, so you know that teenagers have sex. And you know that some parents make arrangements to provide more stringent supervision than others. With your comment, you've implied that all of the older Palin children need watching. I haven't heard boo about anyone other than the eldest daughter. Her MIL to-be indicates that marrige was under discussion before the pregnancy. Maybe that's true, or maybe it's complete bullshit, but the pregnancy is pretty thin gruel to substantiate implications of out of control children.

Special needs kids:

You have a friend with an autistic child. And you went to school with a high functioning Down's. I worked for a few years as a teacher and an aide at a summer school for the mentally impaired--kids with autism, Downs, and a whole lot more. I think I know a helluva lot more than you about the subject, and I still wouldn't presume to dictate how the Palin family handles this, but your relative ignorance hasn't stopped you.

BTW: "If" McCain/Palin win in November, is the family moving to DC, or are they staying in Alaska? Will Todd be working or staying home? Do we know what arrangements they might make? Didn't think so.

In answer to Paddy O's question, yes, they do get Secret Service protection, though the agent's job is not to impose or enforce parental rules.

Paul Zrimsek said...

The Democrats should bypass their increasingly embarrassing series of tryout talking points and cut directly to the big question towards which they have been trending: "Suppose the phone rings at 3 a.m. and it's a big international crisis and she's got her period?"

holdfast said...

"The experience question is a net loser for Palin because we've had more than a year and a half to get to know Obama. So people have already had plenty of time to decide whether Obama's experience is a real concern for them or not."

I follow the media pretty closely, and have no idea if Obama ever actually accomplished anything interesting or even useful in any of his jobs - HLS Law Review editor, community organizer (paid rabble rouser? what the hell does that even mean?) lawyer in private practice, city councilman, state senator and US senator - what has the man DONE?? We all agree he gives a nice speech - what are his accomplishments? Why hasn't the wall-to-wall MSM coverage shown us something?? Please, anyone, help me!

Sure we've all gotten used to seeing his jug-eared mug on the tube, but what have we actually learned (besides his shady associations to all those former firends currently residing under the wheels of his bus). Why does this deeply caring man leave his half-brother George living in a Lenyan slum? Didn't Rev Wright ever teach the bit about helping your brother?

mcg said...

Forget special needs for a moment, I just want to know if Secret Service has ever been tasked with changing a diaper.

Mary said...

Imagine the good a Vice President Palin could do in raising awareness about children/people with Down's syndrome.

Not a specific reason to vote for her ticket sure, but imagine the "bully pulpit" impact that might have ... in a not so bullying way, just showing the "normalcy" of living through such a situation.

Ditto the teen parents thing.

Meade said...

ricpic, All I'm really saying is I don't want to help elect for President someone, male or female, who in my opinion should be fully committed to rearing the children they chose to bring into the world, an opinion vaguely expressed by Obama himself which caused Jesse Jackson to go all castrative on him.

Paddy O. said...

"P.O.W.
P.O.W.
P.O.W."

Ha!

I once knew a kid in school, not too bright, kind of weird really. Nice guy but totally emotionally screwed up. Probably a bad family situation.

Anyway, he was okay until he disagreed with something. Then, his brain would go into full bore annoying mode. Sometimes he'd swing his arms and just randomly hit--not hard, just annoying.

Sometimes he'd repeat in a mocking tone, like a little brother might do. Basically, he would try to drown out the response. There wasn't really any talking to him, and yet it'd be frustrating because he had this self-satisfied air of having won an argument. Even though he was just silly, and sad.

Thinking of this kid makes me sad again about Obama supporters. They're kinda like him. They used to be the cool kids, but something happened I guess.

I had assumed that such characteristics was something that kids grow out of. Apparently not.

Seeing an Obama bumper sticker depresses me now because I feel so sad for such people. Such a long fall. Such a noble beginning.

Whither the hope and change?

Alas. Makes me so sad to think how idealistic they all sounded at one point.

Seven Machos said...

Obama supporters were not the cool kids. They were student council presidents and computer geeks and such in high school. I would wager that 75 percent of former high school quarterbacks and cheerleaders will vote for McCain.

Stop this meme.

Salamandyr said...

Meade, by that criteria, you shouldn't vote for anyone still in childbearing years, since I think we'd all agree that all parents should be "fully committed" to raising their children.

I don't recall this being an issue for Bill Clinton, and his teenage daughter, or George W. Bush, and his teen-age daughters, or Jimmy Carter, and his daughter. Both Ronald Reagan and Al Gore had some very troubled children, but I don't think it affected the way anyone voted.

Do you really want to say that the only women allowed to serve must be post-menopausal?

Seven Machos said...

Only liberal women should be allowed to serve in office.

katherine said...

Like I said, just get out of the way. If nothing more is done, it might just implode on it's own (of course the economy,Afganistan and the like would be a nice diversion).

This is what I'd be more worried about (by Jay Rosen): here's the link

Beldar said...

Prof. A, it's not that "for her there was no choice" when she was told Trig would probably be afflicted with Down syndrome. Rather, hers was an easy choice, given her strong pro-life views. She never had to consider the political repercussions that would have flowed from choosing an abortion; she never got to the political branch of the decision tree.

That is not to say that she's not due some appreciation and admiration. She has not only made a choice, but embraced it eagerly. She speaks with obvious sincerity of Trig as a "blessing." He won't be shunted off to some institution. He will grow up surrounded by love, not resentment.

It's this attitude, and the accompanying energy and purpose, that can and should be admired even by those who are adamantly "pro-choice."

Methadras said...

Palladian said...

Do you have a job, AlphaLiberal? I mean, you've posted more comments in the last few days than Iraqi children killed by US sanctions in the 1990s. Maybe this is your job.


Nah. He's just a special needs kid in search of a meme or he has daddy issues.

nina said...

I shouldn't bother posting this -- it's not as if anyone (including me) has an open mind anymore, but I do think that the question "who is watching the kids?" isn't sexist or completely stupid. Fact is, there are many children, they live in a home 800 miles away from mom's work, dad works and has an active recreational life and they aren't rich. So it's a point of curiosity: who is watching the kids? It's not an issue for most male candidates because we KNOW that up to know, the wife took over family life. It's the reality of life in America. What I can't stand is the anti-feminist image that Palin presents to me: that it's easy to do it all well - have both parents work, be engaged in the community and the pursuit of hobbies and raise five kids. Really? REALLY? That's pure fiction. Unless you have resources and a hell of a lot of family support.

Secondly, on the issue of experience -- if someone has studied to be president, I credit him (because it is a him in this case) with a lot more "experience" than someone who has wondered just last month what a VP does and what exactly happens out there in the big world of national and international politics. Sorry, working hard to get a nomination matters to me. Experience and knowledge of national and global politics are inexorably intertwined.

Don't know why I bother to write this. I keep hoping that commenters really will listen to each other, but after this Palin stuff, I'm not so sure.

In any event, the second issue (of experience) is more important to me than the first (minding the kids), but as a feminist, I do let myself wonder about the first. Palin may indeed have a good answer to the first, but I haven't heard it. All I hear is that she works hard and plays hard and he works hard and plays hard and there is this great distance between where they all live and work. So I'm puzzled.

Seven Machos said...

An experienced vice president is absolutely vital. Experience for the actual presidency doesn't matter. Take Obama, for example. The man has very little experience and has done nothing as an elected official or a private citizen that suggests that he is qualified for the job.

However, that doesn't matter. No, what matters is the qualifications of the vice president. That's the key.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Personally, I'm finding this whole can she step into the Presidency on day one meme hilarious.

John McCain doesn't look quite dead yet to me. He is probably like the guy in search for the Holy Grail. "Hey, I'm not dead yet!!!"

mcg said...

Where is it written that only senators are qualified to become President?... Or where is it written that mere representatives aren’t qualified, like Geraldine Ferraro of Queens?... Where is it written that governors and mayors, like Dianne Feinstein of San Francisco, are too local, too provincial?... Presidential candidates have always chosen their running mates for reasons of practical demography, not idealized democracy…. What a splendid system, we say to ourselves, that takes little-known men, tests them in high office and permits them to grow into statesmen.... Why shouldn’t a little-known woman have the same opportunity to grow?... [T]he indispensable credential for a Woman Who [sic] is the same as for a Man Who [sic] – one who helps the ticket.

New York Times editorial, July 3, 1984. (h/t)

Seven Machos said...

Again, we need a vice president who is prepared to lead the country. The president can be an inexperienced and unqualified community organizer who has a glowing academic resume and nothing else.

Don't you people get it? It's the vice president, stupid.

Host with the Most said...

NEWS ALERT:

CBS is reporting that the National Enquirer Sarah Palin had an affair.

Host with the Most said...

mcg,

THANK YOU!

Proving again that the target always changes for the left wing

mcg said...

Interesting tidbit: Todd Palin's step-mother, Faye Palin, ran for mayor of Wasilla to succeed Sarah. She lost. She didn't get Sarah's endorsement, either. Then again, she is a pro-choice Democrat.

vbspurs said...

Here's my question for Palin: You have way more executive experience than John McCain. How come you're not at the top of the ticket?

Hey Peter. :)

Just to say that you'd be surprised how many Conservatives would adore it, and vote for it in droves, if that were the case.

Remember?

I'm happy with the way our ticket looks now though. Sarah Palin, should she be sucessful, will have 4-8 years of experience under her belt as VP. She's the future of the Republican Party.

Palin-Jindal '16.

Cheers,
Victoria

Dogwood said...

What I can't stand is the anti-feminist image that Palin presents to me: that it's easy to do it all well - have both parents work, be engaged in the community and the pursuit of hobbies and raise five kids.

Who said it was easy?

Palin isn't anti-feminist, she represents everything for which feminists have been fighting.

She is doing what she wants, when she wants, how she wants without being pigeon-holed into a society-approved, stereotypical life that places gender limits on a woman's abilities.

The problem you can't wrap your mind around is that she is a conservative Republican feminists. She simply believes the wrong things as a feminist, and must therefore be dismissed and/or destroyed.

Seven Machos said...

No double standard for CBS there. They jumped all over the John Edwards story.

Big Media is totally unbiased. If anything, biased toward McCain.

Pogo said...

Like its predecessor Katrina three years ago, Hurricane Palin breached the MSM levees and flooded the leftosphere.

Again the typical scenes: windblown correspondents barely able to stand, breathless Geraldos and Mitchells parrying rumors soon shown to be false, indignant Olbermanns and Coopers unable to hide their disdain for the right (even when, or especially when their own side behaves the same way), confused and contradictory narratives, flailing at conspiracies, indistinguishable from street people who see evil patterns in the ordinary.

I evacuated days ago, safe in my secret lair, on higher ground, not reading or watching the MSM's reports of Hurricane Palin.

The eye is expected to pass over tonight at 9:30 p.m. central.

vbspurs said...

Hurricane Palin breached the MSM levees and flooded the leftosphere.

I have this awful vision of Markos hanging from a lamp post in a rainslicker.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Oh no! Peggy "Nooner" on the McCain campaign: It's over.

Seven Machos said...

Only leftists can be feminists. The left owns empowerment, which naturally involved massive transfers of wealth and ginormous government programs.

Also, only people with great amounts of experience can be vice presidents. The presidency is where we want to give people with lesser credentials the shot.

Seven Machos said...

Zach -- You came all the over with that. You're late. And you have become a troll. Please, man. Take the meds. The doctors only want to help you.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

All I'm really saying is I don't want to help elect for President someone, male or female, who in my opinion should be fully committed to rearing the children they chose to bring into the world

Meade, if I might be allowed to say so this is complete and utter bullshit. People work, have children all the time and it works out just fine. Poor people, rich people. People with no resources and people with huge resources like the President.

Who do you think is going to be able to have more quality time to spend with their children? A brick layer who works 12 to 14 hours a day making barely enough to get by, comes home dog tired and who's children are generally left to fend for themselves because day care or babysitting is too expensive........or the President who can command scores of secret service guards, hire large staffs of people to assist with child care and has the ability to take his children on the job with him, traveling to foreign countries and meeting with fascinating people.

If you are so freaking concerned about the poor children, I suggest you volunteer to take care of a crack addicted baby or foster an abused and tortured child that doesn't have any parents who are in the least bit committed to caring for their child.

Give me a break. Hypocrites.

Palladian said...

"Zach -- You came all the over with that. You're late. And you have become a troll. Please, man. Take the meds. The doctors only want to help you."

Become? Zachary has always been an angry, vindictive little queen. He's really enjoying himself because the Palins are just the sort of people that drive emotionally damaged homosexuals crazy.

Revenant said...

someone who has wondered just last month what a VP does

That's dishonest spin on what she said, as you damned well ought to know. Here is what Palin said, in response to a question whether she'd consider being a VP:

As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we're trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.

Let me spell that out for the less-intelligent left-wingers in the audience: the vice president doesn't do anything. The official responsibilities of the office are essentially zero. For example, this is the sum total of ALL the official job activities of Dick Cheney:

(1): He cast 8 tie-breaking Senate votes.
(2): He certified the results of the 2004 election.

That's it. Roughly an hour's work in seven and a half years.

Everything else the man has done, from diplomatic missions to hiding out in secret undisclosed locations, was done because the President delegated that role to him. That's it. What Palin was quite obviously saying is that she wouldn't consider being VP unless she received assurances that her role would be an active one with real responsibilities, rather than the "attend B-list state funerals and wait for the President to die" routine most VPs have had. She was not saying that she had no clue what the job of the VP is -- although the number of people convinced that a VP can't find time in her busy schedule to raise a kid certainly seem confused on that point.

Don't know why I bother to write this.

Especially since you're just repeating the same talking points that have been repeated here ad nauseum by other Obama supporters. Try forming an original thought and get back to us.

mcg said...

Well, if the MSM treats the Palin affair rumor just like they treated the Edwards rumor, it'll stay quiet until after the election.

(snort)

McCain Camp Knocks Down Enquirer's Palin Rumor

Michael said...

Bunny: "John McCain doesn't look quite dead yet to me."

True, but I think we've had 9 Presidents who died or were assassinated that also didn't look dead...until of course, they were...dead.

Why not choose Ridge or Pawlenty or Whitman or even Romney? It wouldn't have raised an eyebrow and they're all much more experienced.

I understand wanting the Christian right vote and he'll obviously get it, but Sarah Palin will do little if anything with independents and that's where the treasure lies.

former law student said...

BTW: "If" McCain/Palin win in November, is the family moving to DC, or are they staying in Alaska? Will Todd be working or staying home? Do we know what arrangements they might make? Didn't think so.

Wait. I thought your point was we weren't allowed to ask these questions.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Zachary also enjoys watching miserable pigs slapping away at their computer hurling out "insults," but who, all along, really just want to fuck him. Sorry Palladian, I'm not a chubby chaser.

vbspurs said...

McCain Camp Knocks Down Enquirer's Palin Rumor

Wow, have they even reported the Edwards National Enquirer news yet, a full 1 year after people had EVIDENCE?

Shameful. Thanks MCG.

Methadras said...

Nina said ...

but as a feminist,


I think that's your problem right there. I would seriously bet that if you brought down your feminist blinders the issue would be fairly clear cut. The Palin's are a family that are ambitious, hard working, and have 5 children and have been able to manage it, with or without said support system. Sometimes you make your own destiny, sometimes it falls in your lap. What you do with an opportunity that is thrust before you whether of your own making or not is the real test of character.

You are more worried about what this issue brings to you as a feminist, but I hate to break it to you, but in reality, no on gives a shit about the feminist movement anymore except those that still continue to follow it's tenets.

Seven Machos said...

All of my liberal friends tell me that Obama stands a much greater chance of assassination than previous presidents. I don't personally believe that, but there it is. Hence, if you are deeply worried about assassination, as you so clearly are, Michael, then McCain is a better choice according to my own sampling of liberals.

chickenlittle said...

Nina said: Unless you have resources and a hell of a lot of family support.

I think you're overlooking that the Palin family ranges in age from "out of the nest" to "just out of the womb". Once upon a more fecund time, the older kids looked after the younger kids- think of it as free childcare.

Because we've evolved more towards the China one child* policy, those built in advantages of big families have passed. But not for the Palin family I'd wager.

(full disclosure I have only two kids)

vbspurs said...

All I'm really saying is I don't want to help elect for President someone, male or female, who in my opinion should be fully committed to rearing the children they chose to bring into the world, an opinion vaguely expressed by Obama himself which caused Jesse Jackson to go all castrative on him.

Meade, I thought you were using sarcasm or something.

Do you really think people shouldn't be able to hold jobs and be parents?

I want to hear it from your own fingers, before I get anything wrong.

mcg said...

I think you're overlooking that the Palin family ranges in age from "out of the nest" to "just out of the womb". Once upon a more fecund time, the older kids looked after the younger kids- think of it as free childcare.

To wit, recall Bristol holding Trig during Sarah Palin's first speech.

Seven Machos said...

Palladian is really far better at gay insults than you are, Zach. I mean, really. He made you look terribly inept there. Of course, you are terribly inept, so it's unfair to attribute this to any special gay power that Palladian has.

ben said...

When I read the Pastor's comments referred to by the third question, I was a bit worried. Then I did some math and realized that Palin had left the church about 6 years ago - long before any comments about John Kerry supporters potentially going to hell would have had any relevance. It's possible that she left the church when she realized that the Pastor was taking his sermons in a political direction with which she was uncomfortable. I'm not too worried about the comments for that reason alone, let alone the fact that it brings up the Jeremiah Wright's comments - to the guy at the top of the ticket, not the VP.

dick said...

Nina,

The question is what does a vice president do. The rest of her response was that she was a doer and she would want to be doing something. The Constitution has the VP as the president of the Senate and the replacement for the president. Beyond that what a VP does is what the president asks him to do. That was her whole point. If she were asked to be VP, what would McCain expect her to do. If it was just sit there waiting, then she would not be interested. Since she took the position, then obviously they talked and she is to be given a lot more duties. Her statement actually made a lot of sense to me given that the position is essentially just sit there as defined.

And for Obama, he studied to run for president but evidently he did not learn a lot. Have you heard him speak when he does not have a teleprompter? He is totally dismal, makes no sense at all. It is like asking the man on the street a serious question without leading into it. You get a lot of hum, err, ah, err, uhh,yes, uhh, hum, I .... and so on. That does not speak very well of Obama being ready for the job. His campaign ws run by his manager. He was told to go here, do this , do that , read this from the teleprompter and smile!! He did and got the nomination. How does that prepare him for the job?

Seven Machos said...

The new liberal position is that women should be barefoot and in the kitchen. Please make a note of it. And do try to keep up, as these positions change rapidly -- much faster than the Daily Worker in the 1930s trying to keep pace with Stalin.

I will do my very best to keep everyone informed.

DCPI said...

The most amazing thing about the CBS printing of the denial is that the Enquirer has not published its story yet. Sorta like sneaking in a punch to the groin before the bell rings.

mcg said...

Maybe not, but it's out there. The folks at The Corner have the text, for instance.

Seven Machos said...

After the way CBS rushed to report the John Edwards story, it would be unfair not to give rumors about Palin the same treatment.

AlphaLiberal said...

Pallad: I'm a workaholic. But I do take breaks, work nights, etc.

Thanks for caring. But I'd prefer to say "I'm independently wealthy."

And you?

DCPI said...

The excerpts from the Enquirer story do not match those on its Web site. I would say that is strange, but since I do not read the Enquirer I am not familiar with whether they save the "whole" story for the paper as part of their regular practice. It is interesting that they directly sent the copy to The Corner, and that The Corner does not refer to copy acquired through a news stand.

Palladian said...

"Zachary also enjoys watching miserable pigs slapping away at their computer hurling out "insults," but who, all along, really just want to fuck him. Sorry Palladian, I'm not a chubby chaser."

Oh that's ok. I'm actually in a relationship with someone far cuter than you. Don't get me wrong, you're fuckable, but it would just be a hate fuck thing, really.

Seven Machos said...

Mercy fuck.

Palladian said...

"Thanks for caring. But I'd prefer to say "I'm independently wealthy."

And you?"

Same, really. You just seem to have a lot of material to keep track of as well as making a lot of comments. Althouse is the only blog I read.

vbspurs said...

Nina wrote:

Really? REALLY? That's pure fiction. Unless you have resources and a hell of a lot of family support.

It's not fiction. It happens every day in millions of households. It helps if:

1- You come from a rural background (Palin, check)

2- You have a large family with kids who can help in the running of the household and younger kids (in fact, a major reason people had kids for millenia).

BTW, this is not only an utilitarian reason, older kids act as mentors to the older ones, allowing them to acculturate themselves to competition outside in the real world.

Being multi-generational obviously, helps too. (Palin, all check)

3- Modern ideas of professionalism and compartmentalising of tasks has eroded our view of how interdependent human life was before 1950. It's almost as if people forgot that everyone pitched it to help everyone else, from barn-raising, to bairn-raising.

I think a lot of the criticism Palin is enduring about this, has to do with a concept that if you're one thing, you can't TRULY AND FULLY be the other. That's silly.

Your second point about her not knowing what a Vice-President does has already been debunked elsewhere, but it is a meme being pushed by certain people.

We can get stuff wrong, and since it's Day 4, it's understandable that this should happen. But one finally finds out that wrong information AND ONE STILL keeps believing it, that's troubling.

In general, obviously, not specific to anyone.

Cheers,
Victoria

AlphaLiberal said...

7 machos fluffs up the Republican strawman:

"The new liberal position is that women should be barefoot and in the kitchen."

Name ONE liberal leader saying this! You guys are trying to invent an alternate reality...

vbspurs said...

hate fuck

Ooh, I had never of the concept.

It's like when I heard that baseball players called sleeping with chubby girls, a slump-breaker.

vbspurs said...

/never heard

Seven Machos said...

Of course. Republicans are trying to invent an alternative reality.

That's why we spend our days making up lies. For example, the one about Palin faking her pregnancy. And there was the one about Palin wanting to secede from the Union (while simultaneously running for an executive position in said union). I take credit for that one.

When we aren't making up lies, we are covering up truths. For example, hundreds of Republicans spent thousands of hours ensuring that the facts about John Edwards's affair and baby remained unreported in Big Media.

Furthermore, we are behind the effort to convince America that inexperienced and utterly under-credentialed Barrack Obama is ready to be president.

Roger J. said...

no nina--you arent a feminist, you are a political hack who thinks you are a feminist. A
little story for you. when West Point was going to enter women for the first time I contacted Betty Friedan and asked her to come to West Point to deliver a lecture on feminism. I had the privilege of driving to Manhattan, picking her up in the staff car, and driving her back--got to talk to her.

Betty Friedan was the prototypical Jewish Grandmother--I arranged for a briefing from the Academy staff for her on the arrangements that had been to integrate women into the Corps of Cadets. Her only suggestion was to treat them like every other cadet. Later that evening she lectured for an hour to my class in politial philosphy, a class btw that included Cadet David Patraeus.

Betty Friedan laid out her ideas of feminism, and the cadets ate it up--her message was simple. All women want is to be treated with the same aspirations and respect for their individuality as men are.
The cadets asked lots of questions, and Ms Friedan handled them with aplomb. They discovered that Feminism is about EQUALITY. EQUALITY in terms of expectations and treatments. She changed a lot of stereotypes that night.

Were Betty Friedan alive today, she would be shaking her head and wondering what went wrong with the movement she helped found.

So Nina--trust me: you would not meet the expectations that Ms Friedan set for feminism. To quote Lloyd Bentson, nina, I knew Betty Friedan, and you, Nina, are not a feminist--you are a political hack.

Ms Friedan would be aghast to see what has happened to liberalism. A liberalism that attacked Hillary Clinton and has turned its guns on Sarah Palin. shame on you Nina..Shame

Jim Howard said...

Let the record show that Zachary Paul Sire bet me $100 that Palin would be off the ticket today.

So in less than six hours he's going to owe me $100.

He's a good honest Democrat. Think he'll pay, or was he lying (again)?

Trooper York said...

Well a hate fuck can be a lot of fun.

As opposed to a hate to fuck, then you are just stuck at home with your dobermans and chickens.

Randy said...

Nina is not a political hack. I, for one, appreciate her comments. I admit to being mystified by her taking the vice president question out of context, given her profession. Being neither 100% pro- or anti-abortion nor 100% pro-Repubican or pro-Democrat myself, I am confident that almost all of what I've said around here the past 5 days would be no different if Sarah Palin were a pro-choice Democrat. My motivations are quite different than the largely partisan crowd from both sides here.

Randy said...

Think he'll pay, or was he lying (again)?

If he does, and he probably will, your money will most likely be coming from the taxpayers of the State of California as he reported going on unemployment a short while ago. ;-)

Palladian said...

"As opposed to a hate to fuck, then you are just stuck at home with your dobermans and chickens."

Oh, you don't know what might go on there...

Palladian said...

"If he does, and he probably will, your money will most likely be coming from the taxpayers of the State of California as he reported going on unemployment a short while ago."

Oh, so then he definitely would be a good, honest Democrat.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Let the record show that Zachary Paul Sire bet me $100 that Palin would be off the ticket today.

Jim, please enlighten us as to when in the world I bet you $100? I asked if anyone would like to bet on Palin's withdrawal, but in no way said what the bet would be. Had you of said "$100" I never would have agreed to do that.

As Palladian reminded us in the comments at the time, I am unemployed and do not have $100 bills to be throwing around. But if I am wrong, and since we never entered into an agreement, how about this:

If Palin doesn't drop out tonight, I will have sex with Palladian.

***

In the meantime, let's play Kill Marry Fuck.

KILL- Host With The Most
MARRY- Victoria
FUCK- Simon

UWS guy said...

James Wolcott is on a roll

.... And since when is it good news that the 17 girl who is being forced to get married is already the prime care giver to her five month old special-needs baby brother because their mother is too busy running the state of Alaska and now running for vice president?

Just take that in. Bristol is already the primary caregiver for five-month old Downs' syndrome baby Trig. Defenders of Sarah Palin at VFR have even boasted that this is a good thing, it shows the hearty frontier spirit of the Palin family. Sarah is too busy to care for Trig. She never seems to hold Trig. Bristol holds Trig in all the photos, holds him very tight. And now Bristol, a 17 year old high school pupil whom Sarah relies on to take care of Trig, is herself pregnant and has to take care of her own pregnancy and upcoming child as well as her upcoming marriage to an 18 year old boy. And all this is great! All this shows what great, life-affirming, genuine American-stock folk the Palins are.

Methadras said...

Seven Machos said...

Mercy fuck.


Pity fuck.

Methadras said...

AlphaLiberal said...

Name ONE liberal leader saying this! You guys are trying to invent an alternate reality...


It's obvious that you aren't a student of sarcasm, you humorless pity mercy fuck.

krylovite said...

Palladian said...
Do you have a job, AlphaLiberal?


Meow!

Jim Howard said...

Zach I'm sorry you're employed, but you should have thought of that when before you started gambling.

If you look just a few posts down in the original Althouse thread you will see where I took you up for $100.

As you know, I also reminded you in the comments in your own blog.

So don't act like this is some kind of surprise.

You really need to learn that words mean things. I know its fun to just spout off whatever crosses your mind, but that doesn't work for adults.

Even though you're tight right now, you will see in the fullness of time that this lesson was worth your hundred bucks.

Maguro said...

Just take that in. Bristol is already the primary caregiver for five-month old Downs' syndrome baby Trig.

I thought Trig had a father, too. Or can only girls do yucky stuff like change diapers?

dr kill said...

Trooper, did you ever see that Water's film named 'Pink Flamingos'? There's a great chicken scene in it. Actually, The premise of that film could be a metaphor for this pre-election smackdown trashtalk from the chattering classes.

The rest of America could give a shit. What percentage of voters read or post on blogs? Not too many, Thinks me.

Paddy O. said...

75 percent of former high school quarterbacks and cheerleaders will vote for McCain.

This needs to be in a commercial. Peer pressure!

And I'm not saying what I did in the literal sense. Trying to get more at the psychology of what I'm seeing as relating more to high school social dynamics than intelligent political conversation.

Then again, maybe it's what you said. All those you mentioned finally thinking they were cool for supporting the hip candidate, but then once again get totally dismissed by the cheerleader. It rankles! Boy, how it rankles!

Cedarford said...

Duscany - Not that this is anything new. Back in 1956 John F. Kennedy ran for vice-president. His experience then was not much different than Palin's now.

By the time JFK was nominated as VP, he had been a commanding officer in the military in combat, an author of a major best-seller, and 10 years in Congress.

The brilliant and tragic Nixon had an even better resume by 1956. Started in Congress the same year as JFK, attained higher rank in Navy, saw combat, graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duke Law, VP for four years.

Similarly to the ludicrous Republican partisans claiming Palin more qualified than Biden or McCain or JFK and a "Russian expert" - we have the arrogant claim of Obama himself that he has more experience than Lincoln did. Absurd to anyone that read a good Lincoln's biography.

peter hoh said...
My cheeky question: Governor Palin, you have way more executive experience than John McCain. How come you're not at the top of the ticket?


McCain was 2 years the commanding officer of the largest air wing in the Navy. He was also, as Senate liaison, the executive leader who coordinated and worked out issues between Navy, the Senate, and defense contractors. Also, a graduate of the War College for senior executive military and before that, a junior officer for 10 years but still in an executive role and leadership (just not a senior one).

chickenlittle said...

Jim Howard said to ZPS: You really need to learn that words mean things.

Barack Obama said Feb. 18, 2008:

Don't tell me words don't matter

Better pay up tomorrow Zach! The corporation will be grateful.

Methadras said...

UWS guy said...

James Wolcott is on a roll

.... And since when is it good news that the 17 girl who is being forced to get married is already the prime care giver to her five month old special-needs baby brother because their mother is too busy running the state of Alaska and now running for vice president?

Just take that in. Bristol is already the primary caregiver for five-month old Downs' syndrome baby Trig. Defenders of Sarah Palin at VFR have even boasted that this is a good thing, it shows the hearty frontier spirit of the Palin family. Sarah is too busy to care for Trig. She never seems to hold Trig. Bristol holds Trig in all the photos, holds him very tight. And now Bristol, a 17 year old high school pupil whom Sarah relies on to take care of Trig, is herself pregnant and has to take care of her own pregnancy and upcoming child as well as her upcoming marriage to an 18 year old boy. And all this is great! All this shows what great, life-affirming, genuine American-stock folk the Palins are.


What a pathetic mimic you are. So the only thing that Walcot is pissed off about is the fact that Palin was an unknown that has been tapped on the shoulder to become the #2 leader in the world from the realm of utter obscurity. And then you have the nerve to slipshod this piece of crap about Palin's daughter being the primary caretaker of the youngest of the brood? Newsflash you moronic dumbfuck, in big families with a spread of ages, this is fairly normal. I'm the oldest of three siblings, a younger brother and a significantly younger sister. My father worked and my mother took care of the house. I was the primary caregiver for both. I was more or less responsible for taking care of both of them, not because my mother was incapable, but because as the first born, it was expected of me, as I suspect that Palin's oldest daughter has the privilege of doing in the absence of her older brother.

What is your fucking complaint about this? Is this all you and your moronic ilk have against this woman being VP? If it is, you've already lost the argument. Your idiotic meme that you and your bankrupt ideology are forwarding is just typical of the swamp you swim in.

Randy said...

Jim Howard: This is news to me. Since when is a "bet a bet" when the two parties haven't mutually agreed the bet is on. He said he'd bet. You offered to bet. But I can't find his agreement to accept your offer anywhere. Where's your proof that ZPS accepted your offer?

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Sorry Jim =(

You don't set the terms of the wager, I do, because I'm the one who put it out there. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go book a flight to whatever cave Palladian is living in so I can prepare to pay up.

Roger J. said...

Cedarford: I confess to not understand where you are coming from--of course I resent an earlier post where your referred to me as a ringknocker :)

C4--I i do love your posts. Now could you please lay out for me your vision of where you this country ought to be? And I will forgive you for being an engineer.
and I understand that this current crop of nominees is about the most rag tab bunch I have ever seen.

gregq said...

Ann asks: Why would anyone give good advice to their opponents.

Several reasons:

1: It's really fun to give your opponents good advice when you know they are too dumb / arrogant to accept it.

2: You get to say "I told you so" when they screw it up.

3: You get to "prepare the battlespace" , and show the "neutrals" why those attacks are bad / wrong / evil, in case the neutrals hadn't thought of it themselves.

Meade said...

vbspurs said...

Do you really think people shouldn't be able to hold jobs and be parents?

I didn't say anything like that. We're talking about holding down the job of POTUS. It's a huge job. You want it? Come back and apply for it after you finish what should be your primary job if you have young children - rearing your children as well as you possibly can. Palin and Obama don't need to be President right now. Nor do we need them to be. They should both withdraw.

Methadras said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nina said...

Me? A political hack? That's funny!

I admit that I am not an undecided, but I will also say this: there are a lot of Republican women whom I respect and would really like to see rise to position of strength. Palin? I'm just saying that these questions about her are not ridiculous. They are not MY questions, but they aren't stupid either. Can you live with that?

I do think it's odd for some unknown to me person tell me if I am or am not a feminist, so you shouldn't do that. Indeed, if Palin wanted to call herself a feminist, I would not object. It's her right. It's my right. Not yours, okay?

Methadras said...

Meade, you are off your rocker if you think that having young children and running for high political office should disqualify as a candidate for that office. Under your criteria, soldiers with children shouldn't be deployed in a time of war.

vbspurs said...

They should both withdraw.

Meade, I genuinely don't know what to say.

It's anti-modern, and in fact, anti-practical. The world would stop tomorrow, if everyone followed this advice.

Methadras said...

Jim Howard said...

Even though you're tight right now,


Jim, saying that Zachary is tight is like saying that Sarah Palin's daughter is as pure as driven Detroit snow.

Randy said...

Indeed, if Palin wanted to call herself a feminist, I would not object. It's her right. It's my right.

I agree! IIRC, she has, in fact, described herself as one. It's amazing how much information is readily available on the internet yet so few people take the time to find out. There was a raging discussion on contraception here a couple of nights ago. All those involved presumed they knew Palin's position on the subject. They were wrong. No one bothered to check. It was easy to find, though.

Methadras said...

Nina said ...

I do think it's odd for some unknown to me person tell me if I am or am not a feminist, so you shouldn't do that. Indeed, if Palin wanted to call herself a feminist, I would not object. It's her right. It's my right. Not yours, okay?


Well, Nina, this begs the question. Do you know what a feminist is and if you do, why are you one?

The Drill SGT said...

peter hoh said...
My cheeky question: Governor Palin, you have way more executive experience than John McCain. How come you're not at the top of the ticket?


simple answers:

1. she didn't run
2. she didn't win the primaries.

you gotta run to win

The Drill SGT said...

In answer to Paddy O's question, yes, they do get Secret Service protection, though the agent's job is not to impose or enforce parental rules.

But it does dampen the ardor of a 17 y/o boy to know that his date is escorted by 4 guys with guns who report to Mom

Peter V. Bella said...

Hey alpha,
How come you are not ranting and raving about that secret society that Biden belongs to? Hmmmmm?

According to wikipikidikiliki and the truther far out right wing blogs:
It is extremely restrictive in its membership.

One must have a modicum of wealth to join and stay in.

They have a secret so protected that no one will ever find it out.

They are a cabal of people who are fighting in secret for real, verifiable change.

Every investigation of them has gone no where. Many of the investigators are asked to join and they do so willingly.

This secret cabal is world wide in scope and bigger and more prestigious than the Tri-Laterals and the CFR. People from all walks of life who can afford membership are allowed in.

Biden is now one of the best known members. He is now in line to be one of the most powerful and to get their national agenda pushed through.

Biden will soon be the number one member of the cabal know as the HCFM.











Hair Club For Men

Michael McNeil said...

nina says:
Indeed, if Palin wanted to call herself a feminist, I would not object. It's her right.

Palin does call herself a feminist. She's a member of a group called Feminists for Life.

As to a Vice President raising children, I think the Naval Observatory (the Vice President's residence, for those who don't know) would be a wonderful, magical place for child(ren) to grow up in.

Meade, with regard to your position in this matter, sorry, but I think you're completely in lulu-land here. People, some of them politicians, oftentimes have strong and potentially well considered views as to what policies should be implemented and what sort of impact they might have on the future of this country if they were to run for office — which sometimes motivates them to throw their hat into the ring for what's likely (before they win, or lose) going to be a bruising fight. People do it (at least at times) because they care and think the future of the country is important. So, according to you, they really should forget about patriotism and meekly withdraw to give full attention to their kids, while the country may be going to hell in a handbasket? Get real — and get the kids a nanny.

Meade said...

Victoria,

I'm not talking about everyone in the work world. I'm talking about a specific job: President of the United States. John McCain is finished raising his children. Hillary Clinton is finished raising her child. Joe Biden has raised his children. They meet that specific job requirement. Sarah Palin and Barack Obama might meet it sometime in 10 or 20 years. The world can wait.

Peter V. Bella said...

vbspurs said...
Hurricane Palin breached the MSM levees and flooded the leftosphere.

I have this awful vision of Markos hanging from a lamp post in a rainslicker.


And Obama hanging on for dear life from his legs.

Meade said...

You know, this illustrates the hateful problem of partisan politics. Republicans and Democrats lose all sense of proportion, become True Believers, convinced that only their candidate can save the world. It's dangerous and wrong.

Peter V. Bella said...

AlphaLiberal said...
Speaking of JOhn McCain's lack of executive experience, how about his lack of real world experience?

John McCain is a guy who, I believe, has lived off of the government his entire life.

Has he ever drawn a private sector paycheck? (Allowance from the wife doesn't count!)


Have you? Or are you one of those people who live off the government grant teat.

Hey, can we take up a donation and get Alpha, the mighty, modern, fighting, liberal a pity fuck? I’ve never seen anyone who needs to get laid more than this imbecile.


Host with the Most said...
NEWS ALERT:

CBS is reporting that the National Enquirer Sarah Palin had an affair.


They heard it from a guy who knows a guy who is sleeping with a modern fighting liberal, whose mother slept with an Eskimo, who shot the moose that was eaten by the guy who works as a staffer for CBS in Barrow Alaska.


The Obama smear machine is in full bore mode.

The Drill SGT said...

C4 said...a junior officer for 10 years but still in an executive role and leadership (just not a senior one).

I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt that since he was an O4 in an attack squadron he was likely the 2nd or 3rd most senior guy and must have led some of the flights or missions over North VN. Saying to your troops, "follow me!" as you run across a paddy or make a dive against a bridge has got to count for a couple of executive leadership points

Sloanasaurus said...

John McCain is a guy who, I believe, has lived off of the government his entire life.

Your right. John McCain fought for his country for 27 years of his live and spent 6 years in a POW camp in return for a measly paycheck and a measly lifetime disability check. Like millions of other veterans he has never complained.

blake said...

Jim,

ZPS never took up your bet, as has been noted; also he used the phrase "friendly wager", which around here means "no bet/minor bet".

Palladian said...

"Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go book a flight to whatever cave Palladian is living in so I can prepare to pay up."

I'm ready to collect my "winnings" whenever you're ready to put your chips on the table, baby.

vbspurs said...

And Obama hanging on for dear life from his legs.

LOL Peter!

Methadras said...

Meade said...

Victoria,

I'm not talking about everyone in the work world. I'm talking about a specific job: President of the United States. John McCain is finished raising his children. Hillary Clinton is finished raising her child. Joe Biden has raised his children. They meet that specific job requirement. Sarah Palin and Barack Obama might meet it sometime in 10 or 20 years. The world can wait.


Then where the hell was your argument when Bill and Hillary were raising Chelsea? How about Jimmy and Roselin Carter raising Amy? Those would have been two great presidents to disqualify don't you think? Please, your argument is just plain weird and utter hogwash and I'm frankly amazed that you are clinging to it like a wet bedsheet.

blake said...

Y'all are jumping on Meade, but if you take the politics out of it, he's not saying anything horrible. He's not saying "women can't" or "parents can't", he's talking "should".

I think the same thing when I see the Obamas or the Palins.

What I think, though, is that these are the type of people who are probably way too ambitious to take 20 years off. (And, let's face it, McCain and Biden have grown children now, but they weren't homebodies, either.)

I don't see him suggesting passing laws or anything, just expressing a point-of-view.

blake said...

And as for the Clintons, maybe they should have waited a decade, and maybe Meade was there saying it then.

Unless I missed the part where Meade was a partisan hack.

Meade said...

Exactly. Thanks, blake. (Call me - we need to talk about your salary raise.)

Unless I missed the part where Meade was a partisan hack

Ha!

With regard to all future personal attacks on me, my sanity, or my sense of modernity by Victoria, Methadras, Dust Bunny Queen, and/or others, please address all specious unhinged questions, gratuitous criticism, or emotionalized rantings to my official spokesperson, blake.

Thank you and good day.