July 10, 2008

Jesse Jackson, Day 2.

1. Mickey Kaus says Jackson was making a perfectly good point.

2. Who really cares if he uses language like "nuts" in private conversation? But what's the other thing he said that FoxNews didn't air? Gawker has the rumor.

AND:

3. Forget the "nuts off" statement. Jackson's apology line "I cherish this redemptive and historical moment" is more exquisitely revealing. From the comments on yesterday's post:
Lawgiver said:

What an awesome apology by Jackson ending with, "I cherish this redemptive and historical moment."

To paraphrase;

I said I wanted to cut your nuts off but I didn't really mean it because I really really support what you do and say. So I will really really really think of my nut cutting comment and subsequent apology with a fondness and love that will comfort me the rest of my years for I have been redeemed!.

It doesn't get any better than that.

John Stodder said:

What an awesome apology by Jackson ending with, "I cherish this redemptive and historical moment."

It's quite possible that some of Jesus' disciples wanted to cut His nuts off, despite or perhaps because of His divinity.

Or it's like the old song, "You only cut the nuts off the one you love."

79 comments:

Lawgiver said...

Your link to Gawker doesn't work.

Ann Althouse said...

Sorry. Fixed.

Spread Eagle said...

Me, I'm not getting Kaus's point.

Randy said...

Kaus and Jackson are right, but neither strikes me as a good messenger in this case, and the phrasing of both doesn't help. Still, it probably doesn't make any difference - we're in for 4 or 8 years of such condescension, as well as a healthy dose of JFK-like Brandenburg Gate and children-at-play in the White House photo-ops. I doubt Michelle Obama can pull off a Jackie Kennedy role, but Rosalind Carter's should fit.

Lawgiver said...

Who really cares if he uses language like "nuts" in private conversation?

All Americans should care. Castration is what the masters used to do to disobedient slaves. To use such racially charged terms like cut his nuts off is a slap in the face to all who desire racial harmony. Until we can ban the use of all language that recalls our evil past we will remain a divided nation.

Remember Kelly Tilghman joking about lynching Tiger Woods as the only way to stop him from winning? I believe Big Al Sharpton wanted her fired for that divisive remark. Likewise, I think Jesse should be banned from any further TV gigs.

Middle Class Guy said...

Obama is not talking down to Black people or any poor people. He is saying what should be said- people have to take responsibility for their own lives and especially the lives of their children.

The only thing Jesse Jackson has done for Black people is to make headlines for himself. In effect, he has done nothing. He is a charlatan and a fraud; always has been and always will be. People outside Chicago never realize this. Even the Black community here knows it.

Unfortunately, irrelevant people like Jesse Jackson do not want to hear this. The truth hurts. The truth hurts more when people like Jesse Jackson have done more harm than good. Remember what happened to Cosby when he told the hard truth?

Jesse does not like competition either. He better learn there is a new kid on the block. One who will over shadow him and hopefully put him in his place; the retirement home for old, irrelevant store front con man preachers.

MadisonMan said...

I doubt Michelle Obama can pull off a Jackie Kennedy role, but Rosalind Carter's should fit.

I see Rosalynn Carter -- a southerner -- fitting in more with the Lady Bird and Laura Bush mold. Michelle, being a midwesterner, would be more like Betty Ford -- or Hillary!. Of course MO is young, so comparisons to Jackie Kennedy will occur.

ricpic said...

So Jackson called Obama the N word. So what. I thought that was a perfectly alright thing to do, especially if the word ends in a. Ending in er, not so sure. All bien pensants studiously ignore it when blacks fling the word at other blacks. And bien pensants are by definition right, right?

Remember class: honkies and only honkies must never use the N word.

TMink said...

Middle Class Guy nailed it. Jackson is mad because Obama dared to hint about personal responsibility. Jesse would rather cry that black males have no good choices that they can make.

Bullshit.

There is no race card, it is just the Victim card in black face.

Trey

ron st.amant said...

The Gawker piece is correct...with the way O'Reilly characterized the unaired footage, Fox has to back it up.
When I first heard O'Reilly's statement it didn't ring true because why on Earth would he NOT air it...what, suddenly O'Reilly has scruples and taste?
None of this, to me, does any harm to Obama, in fact in a way I think it helps him in small ways.

Meade said...

I was watching that O'Reilly clip and thought to myself: what a nut!

So I cut him off.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Kaus is correct. Obama talks down to everyone. It is so so hard to be so so special I suppose.

Re: Jackson. What I hear is that he is jealous of the attention that Obama is garnering and fearful that he (Jackson) is going to lose his schtick of shaking down the white folks. If Obama is elected Jackson loses some of his leverage.

What he said, that he wants to rip his nuts off, is what he meant, and nothing less. All the spinning ....."Ummm...look over there Katrina!!" isn't going to change it. They know it. We know it. How much are we willing to pretend that we all don't know what is going on?

This morning the spin machine from Jackson, Sharpton and all of the other sycophants and race hustlers was in full high speed RPM mode. How much can they spin before we all throw up?

MadisonMan said...

None of this, to me, does any harm to Obama, in fact in a way I think it helps him in small ways.

I agree. How is it a bad thing that Jesse Jackson is mad at Obama? What rational person listens to the Reverend -- whose relevance peaked ca. 1980.

DBQ, the plant pot for glorious vomit is over there ---->

vet66 said...

Can't have a rainbow coalition without rain. Barack is cutting in on Jesse's action. Makes one wonder what we would have heard if Hillary had riled the feminists had she won the nomination.

Always great theater when they start eating their own.

Roger J. said...

Agree with MM--we are seeing the position of black spokesperson move to Senator Obama thereby displacing those old race hustles Jackson and Sharpton. Jesse's feeling a little threatened, I think losing all that face time.

This is certainly not going to hurt Obama and will probably increase his cred with some pale americans. Added plus: gets to play the victim card.

Randy said...

MM: Good point, although I doubt she'd appreciate being described as Hillary II ;-)

As to some other comments here: it is quite possible to be uplifting and encouraging, instead of demeaning, while being critical. It seems to me that, more often than not, Obama chooses the latter method, particularly when challenged about something, but then I'm not a fan.

Spread Eagle said...

The part of Kaus's point that I'm not getting is his criticism that Obama has to come up with "a better way to phrase it that doesn't set up Obama as a commanding know-it-all..."

What's up with that?

William said...

Jesse Jackson brought his mistress to the White House in order to counsel President Clinton about adultery. This should have been the occasion of so much ridicule that it would effectively terminate Jackson's public life. It did not. That is part of the reason I have so much distrust of black politicians and the white media that enables them.....I am sure that Obama exists on a higher moral plane than Jackson but his base is the same. They say that this will help Obama distance himself from Jackson, but I don't see it. If it is revealed that Coca Cola causes ulcers, people will turn to iced tea, not Pepsi. Jackson's words were ugly and voting for Obama empowers this ugliness.....The sub text of Obama's candidacy is that it offers well meaning white people a chance to demonstrate that they have transcended their racial antipathies. I would like to see some evidence that black leaders have transcended their own hang ups. I have never heard of a black politican, including Jackson & Obama, who ever criticized another black for being too extreme in their criticism of whites or too corrupt in their personal dealings. Obama is not Jackson, Sharpe James, Coleman Young, Marion Berry, Ray Nagin, etc. but he is part of the same force field that produced these men and enabled them to stay in power for so long after they had demonstrated their incompetence.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Obama is not talking down to Black people or any poor people. He is saying what should be said- people have to take responsibility for their own lives and especially the lives of their children.

It isn't so much what you say as how you say it. Obama is supercilious and condescending. He can't help it. It is is privileged background and personality.

What he is saying may be true. Bill Cosby said similar things. However, Bill Cosby didn't come across as "talking down". Obama does, especially when he gets off the teleprompter and talking points, the real person oozes out.

Roger J. said...

For an excellent example of Obama's talkling down characteristic, listen to Obama's comments about teaching our kids spanish! Especially funny coming from a non-spanish speaker! Although I will be glad to see a cigarette smoker back in the white house--FDR and Ike were both smokers.

Spread Eagle said...

So Jackson's complaint, and derivatively Kaus's complaint, that Obama "talks down to black people" is just a subset of the overall complaint that Obama talks down to everybody. Is that it?

Invisible Man said...

What he is saying may be true. Bill Cosby said similar things. However, Bill Cosby didn't come across as "talking down". Obama does, especially when he gets off the teleprompter and talking points, the real person oozes out.

That's really interesting coming from someone who Bill Cosby isn't talking to. You obviously have never watched one of Bill Cosby's new speeches were he periodically yells at the audience and tells them that "they" are the reason African-Americans can't advance. Read around and see the anger and hate(justly or unjustly) that is directed at Bill Cosby over his 'speaking tour'. I know that it suits your partisan and ideological interests to love this message but hate one of the messengers, but your biased personal opinion doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

Gahrie said...

I love Gawker's objectivity. The way they have things set up, Fox News is evil no matter what they do.....

Mortimer Brezny said...

I love how Mickey Kaus is now running for Grand Leader of All Black People. "He be condescendin' to us, y'all! He be bamboozlin' us!"

The reality is Obama is not viewed as condescending by African-American voters. But Republicans certainly want to paint him as uppity. That's a much better narrative than "Gee, McCain is so fucking old."

Michael_H said...

It's always about the money with Jesse Jackson. He's a shakedown artist.

Obama hasn't paid the fee for Jesse Jackson to go away, so Jackson's pissed.

Throwing gas on the Jackson bonfire, Obama paid Hillary a lot of money in the form of settling her campaign debts for her to go away.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Remember class: honkies and only honkies must never use the N word.

Given that the etymology of the word honkey is that white johns who frequented black prostitutes but feared going upstairs where pimps might lie in wait would announce their arrival by honking their horns to alert the prostitutes to come down to the car... it would make sense that a honkey not use the word, as he might get cut off.

Al Swearengen said...

No off premises fucking. Either you pay or she pays. Five dollars. Seven for ass fucking.

gophermomeh said...

Bias’, victimhood and long held resentments are at the bottom of anyone’s feeling of being ‘talked down’ to. To encourage and suggest to someone to take responsibility, is not condescending (or even learn Spanish – since when is learning a negative?). Could he work on his message? Of course, but he’ll always offend some, I suppose.

Roger J. said...

I must not be in touch, I guess.--I don't see republicans making Obama out to be "uppity." Unless of course there's some kind of subliminal message I am not getting. Now, it could be that inexperienced, liberal, and flip flopper are the defining characteristics of uppity. And as a medicare card carrying, social security drawing old fart, I enjoy how some folks are using age as an issue--Damn ageists, anyway.

bearbee said...

JJ probably looking for some endorsements?

Get Some NUTS!!

Sometimes you feel like a nut

Roger J. said...

Mortimer: you havent made a very compelling case for the etymology of honky which the references I saw refer to as speculative--but you can google as easily as I can.

1jpb said...

Actually, BHO is condescending and an Amercia hater, as his most recent comment clearly demonstrates:

"We have sort of become a nation of whiners"

Or, is this tough truth telling and straight talk? Maybe, at worst, these were poorly chosen words, but let's quickly move on to what was really meant.

I wonder if a speaker's race could have an unconscious impact on how that speaker's words are internalized by listeners. Is it possible that white folks benefit from subconscious biases. Presumably this is the type of thing can be tested using scientific procedures. I wonder what they found?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The reality is Obama is not viewed as condescending by African-American voters. But Republicans certainly want to paint him as uppity. That's a much better narrative than "Gee, McCain is so fucking old."

Really? Jesse Jackson seems to have that condescending impression. There is nothing "uppity" about it. You are trying to make it a racial issue on the part of Republicans, when it is nothing like that and you damn well know it. By your definition, then John Kerry is uppity.

The Obama disconnect is on many levels but is mainly Urban, Yuppie professional, Ivy League snob vs. fly over country, blue collar, city college. Same issue that many had with Kerry, condescending to the "little people".

McCain IS so fucking old and was my last choice for a candidate and I'm not going to vote for him anyway. However.....so fucking old can also translate into so fucking experienced.

perry masonmint said...

ricpic said...

Remember class: honkies and only honkies must never use the N word.


Fortunately for you, Ann only gets a little upset when you use the phrase "the jig is up."

Al Swearengen said...

Can we still use San Fransico cock sucker?

As a location of origin but not as an avocation cheif.

Even the decaptitated like to have their heads rubbed now and again.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

That's really interesting coming from someone who Bill Cosby isn't talking to. You obviously have never watched one of Bill Cosby's new speeches were he periodically yells at the audience and tells them that "they" are the reason African-Americans can't advance.

Invisible: you are right. Bill Cosby isn't talking to me personally, but I did watch his speaking tour. It seemed to me that Cosby is speaking from a been there done that attitude having been a teacher and dealt with people on a personal level.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I felt his yelling is more along the lines of a family member frustrated at seeing his beloved children, brothers or sisters going down the wrong path. Feeling helpless to try to get that family member to pay attention and help themselves,you do anything even insulting and yelling to get their attention. Sort of an intervention.

They may be saying the same things but Obama, on the other hand, seems to be lecturing from an ivory tower. Perhaps he has just as much personal passion or feeling, but it certainly doesn't show when he is speaking off the cuff to all audiences.

Like I said it isn't so much what you say but how you say it.

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger J. said...

Perry: your last search for examples of gleeful racism came up empty--you still trying to milk that issue, huh?

perry masonmint said...

Roger J. said...

Perry: your last search of gleeful racism came up empty--still trying to milk that issue, huh? You really need a new schtick


Hey, the last time ricpic used the phrase even Ann told him he was out of line.

And if I need more examples of gleeful racism, I'll just hang around this thread. I shouldn't have to wait long....

Oh wait, that's like the Truman Show. If you know I'm watching, you'll change your act....

Well, some of you won't be able to help yourselves....

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger J. said...

Your last effort at producing evidence, Perry, came up with absolutely nothing--but by all means, hang around because even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

Al Swearengen said...

In life you have to do a lot of things you don't fucking want to do. Many times, that's what the fuck life is.. one vile fucking task after another. But don't get aggravated.... then the enemy has you by the short-hairs.

perry masonmint said...

Oh wait -- I missed this one earlier.

Roger J. said...

thereby displacing those old race hustlers Jackson and Sharpton.


See, here in the real world, the phrase "race hustler" is code for "I'd like to use the N-word but I'm a little too embarassed to do it in public."

Knew I wouldn't have long to wait...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

See, here in the real world, the phrase "race hustler" is code for "I'd like to use the N-word but I'm a little too embarassed to do it in public."

Maybe in your paranoid delusional world, but here I believe it means race hustler. Just like David Duke or the local Klan organizer or the La Raza organizer is hustling race.

perry masonmint said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

See, here in the real world, the phrase "race hustler" is code for "I'd like to use the N-word but I'm a little too embarassed to do it in public."

Maybe in your paranoid delusional world, but here I believe it means race hustler. Just like David Duke or the local Klan organizer or the La Raza organizer is hustling race.


Sorry, there's a reason the phrase is only used by wingnut thinly-veiled racists.

It's because it's code for "I would so love to use the N-word but I'm too embarassed to do it in public."

Protest all you want. It'll be fun watching your nose grow...

Al Swearengen said...

It wouldn’t be the worst thing; backing a loser. Let him pick me up from the canvas after, dust me the fuck off. I raise the great man’s hand and murmur, best as I can through split lips, “Your man beat my man’s balls off, sir."
The race does not always go to swift and the fight does not always go to the mighty. Sometimes a hooplehead can get lucky. Through mere happenstance.

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
1jpb said...

D.B.Q.,

Come on. One of the best things about the right wing is the (purported) opposition to moral equivalence. And, you were on pretty solid ground, why the foot shooting?

Roger J. said...

Perry: it is time for me to invoke the "pig rule" in my interaction with you. Cheers.

Maguro said...

Sorry, there's a reason the phrase is only used by wingnut thinly-veiled racists.

Perry has a copy of the same the ACME Racism-Detector that steve simels used to use around here.

It detects both thinly-veiled racism and the nudge-nudge wink-wink kind that's usually rather hard to detect.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Come on. One of the best things about the right wing is the (purported) opposition to moral equivalence. And, you were on pretty solid ground, why the foot shooting?

Really? I was discussing the definition of a term: "race hustler" and was not indicating that one excused the other. That would be moral equivilancy. Perhaps you need a dictionary too?

Evidently David Duke isn't a race hustler in your world? Since calling one group race huslters = the "N" word, I'm curious what equiviant word am I hiding when I say that Duke is a race hustler. Hooplehead? Is that the secret code word?

1jpb said...

"just like"

Roger J. said...

People I would characterize as race hustlers come to mind: Geraldo Rivera, Ward Churchill, David Duke, Huey Long, Phillipe Rushton, Willie Herenton (and any number of former democratic senators from Southern States).

Al Swearengen said...

I used to have a race hustler in my employ who encouraged the hoopleheads to bet the favorite in a race when I had a ringer who looked like an old tired nag but was fleet of foot.

Of course I can't tell you his moniker as it is out of fashion, hence I had to demote him to African American corporal.

bearbee said...

Don't recall ever hearing the term, but according to Urban Dictionary:

1. Race Hustler
A term coined to describe those individuals of a particular race who project themselves into the media spotlight as spokespersons whenever there is an alledged racial incident which involves their race. The use of the word "Hustler", included as a part of the term, also implies that these individuals expliot a racial situation to serve their own interests.

Recently, this term has often been used to describe the Reverends Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as "Race Hustlers".

1jpb said...

Cool dictionary.

I like this definition for a word I'm no longer using.

3. ...all-around tough motherfuckers. Will fuck you up without a second thought if necessary, but will have your back and get you shitty in your hour(s) of need...

Screw the OED.

1jpb said...

That's

w***nut

Al Swearengen said...

I have had occasion to use race rustlers where I send the whores to tempt the hoopleheads to games of chance that are outside of their realm of experiance. To rustle them away from their commonplaces so to speak.

It's how I won the laundry from Wu. I had the whores tempt them into betting on the dog races.

So they were interested in the speed of the dog. Not the taste.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"just like"

No, moral equivalency is taking two separate unlike things and attempting to make them equivalent in order to excuse nonequivalent behaviour. I am taking two or more like things and grouping them together under the same dictionary definition. Just like a corbelled arch and a keystone arch are both defined as arches. Comparing a corbelled arch opening to a slab and lintel opening would be unlike to unlike. The are both openings that you can walk through but they are not like.

Jesse Jackson is like David Duke. Race hustlers "just like" the ones that roger j listed.

You really must get a dictionary.

Roger J. said...

I think its fair to say the Dust Bunny and I strive for inclusiveness in our definition, unlike some who wish to restrict membership to only one particular skin tone. I always thought inclusiveness was a good thing!

reader_iam said...

Just did some moderately extensive Googling, and I'm hard pressed to find compelling evidence that, at least on the internet, "race hustler" is a generic term. It does indeed appear to be used most specifically used with regard to black people such as Sharpton, Jackson etc. (which, by the way, was my impression because that has been my experience).

HOWEVER, I disagree that this necessarily evokes the n-word, or that people who use the term really want to use the n-word. One thing doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

Finally, I wish it WERE, in a general usage, more of a generic phrase--because the phenomenon sure does occur in more than one race, and more than one party.

(I didn't do an analogous search or race baiter, but my sense is that this is the term more often used with regard to white people of a certain type. "Sense," only. I'm not claiming authority or anything definitive. As always, I can, and could, be wrong.)

ricpic said...

Whatsamatta Victoria? got tired of being called on your closet racist hypocrisy so you dreamed up perry masonmint, same exact MO, to continue your Nurse Ratchett hectoring act? Go away, sad little girl.

1jpb said...

D.B.Q.,

You explicitly included the KKK and La Raza, but you still forgot that they're just like the Nazi's too.

At some point you'll reach China.

Roger,

I thought that your comments were more careful. And, now we see that the Urban Dictionary (the definitive source) says you were right on.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"You explicitly included the KKK and La Raza, but you still forgot that they're just like the Nazi's too."


Really? In exactly which ways?

1jpb said...

Good question, finally.

Al Swearengen said...

It has been my considered experience with Wu and assorted chinamen... that you can dig all you want and not reach china...but if you swing a dead cat...you might get an appetizer

1jpb said...

The loop goes on; new Kaus bhtv includes Althouse talk.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"Good question, finally"

And your answer is? Since you made the statement it is incumbent upon you to answer. In words you might be better able to understand....put up or shut up.

I'll check back later after I've made my contribution to furthering captialism and the industrial complex.

Bobby Meachum's Aunt said...

That Mickey Kaus is a scary looking man. He looks like a dissapated Mickey Mouse with male pattern baldness. And bad teeth.

Was he the man on "To Catch A Predator" on Animal Planet when they were talking about goats?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Well, 1jpb? What is your answer or were you just throwing sh*t out on the internet wall to see if anything could stick and you don't have a clue?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

.....crickets chirping.....

Al Swearengen said...

The legs you hear rubbing together are not crickets. Its the hoopleheads rubbing their pates and their grimy legs as they contemplate matters beyond their keen. That why I only like to converse with the severed head of a heathen savage. Less complicated that way. Even the decapitated are entitled to some amiable discourse of an evening.

JohnTaylor88 said...

Mortimer: you havent made a very compelling case for the etymology of honky which the references I saw refer to as speculative--but you can google as easily as I can.

I disagree. Mortimer's case is compelling.

1jpb said...

D.B.Q.

You have all the pieces of the puzzle, but I can help some more.

You should have asked that question before you decided that Jesse was just like the KKK. I can't imagine that your unfamiliar with the differing histories, methods and impacts of Jesse and the KKK.

And, here is moral equivalence from wikipedia:

"Moral equivalence is a term used in political debate, usually to criticize any denial that a moral hierarchy can be assessed of two sides in a conflict, or in the actions or tactics of two sides."

You're just wrong, why not admit it and move on. At first it was fun poking at you, but now I'm feeling sorry for you.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Nice dithering and side stepping. However, you still are evading answering my question to your blanket statement that KKK and La Raza are just like the NAZIs.

If you don't know and you were just shooting gas out your ass.....just say so.

1jpb said...

Now, I already brought you wikipedia. But, you need to find a dictionary and look up 'irony' yourself.

Recall, that I'm the one who is opposed to moral equivalence.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Moral equivalence is a term used in political debate, usually to criticize any denial that a moral hierarchy can be assessed of two sides in a conflict, or in the actions or tactics of two sides."

Well, your little excerpt tells us HOW moral equivalence is used not what it is. That is how the tool is used not the definition of WHAT it is.

You are being deliberately obtuse. "Defining" two things Jackson and Duke as the same thing (Race Hustlers) is not moral equivalence since I am not condoning or excusing one person's action by the other and you know it......unless the deliberate obtuseness you exibit is actually your natural state...stuck on stupid.

Still waiting with bated breath your explanation of exactly how the KKK and La Raza is equivilant to the National Socialist German Worker's Party. I'm willing to learn something new if you have anything new to offer. So far, your offerings have been pretty bleak bleatings and parrotings, but hey....I'm willing to listen.

If you are opposed to moral equivilance, then I suppose you object to the terms War on Poverty and War on Drugs as well??

1...2...3.....

1jpb said...

You sure showed me.

Have you looked up irony yet? I've just given you another example.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

How about you answer the question instead of weaseling? Because you can't just admit you are talking through your ass most of the time.

What a joke. I'm arguing with a 12 year old. I think I'll go play WoW where I can at least beat the tar out of someone like you. Ooooooh moral equivilance.