April 8, 2008

"These hate bloggers will be blogging in Hell some day."

Says Kinky Friedman, talking about the DailyKos, where mean things were said when Charlton Heston died.

145 comments:

Matt Brown said...

To think that not so long ago, whenever you heard someone talk about "mean-spirited people," you figured they were probably referring to Republicans.

Bob said...

Go, Kinkstah!

I wish I had lived in Texas during the last governor's election there, I would have voted for Kinky in an instant. He had a real common-sense agenda that I liked, even though he's not conservative.

We'll see if the Kos Kiddies attack him, now. They flirt with anti-semitism enough as it is, let's see if Kinky pushes them out into the open.

reader_iam said...

O'Reilly not exactly a stranger to hyperbole himself, of course, which he conveniently demonstrates in this very clip.

Kinky makes an excellent point when he refers to Charlton Heston and civil rights. If the Kossacks think of Heston only in terms of the 2nd Amendment, that makes them pretty damn shallow and not particularly broadly informed--in short, knee-jerkers.

Famous picture of Charlton Heston with James Baldwin and Marlon Brando at the 1963 March on Washington.

Then there's this:

Decades before his NRA leadership, Heston was a strong advocate for civil rights in the 1960s, joining marches and offering financial assistance.

Civil-rights leaders in Los Angeles held a moment of silence in Heston's memory Sunday after an unrelated news conference.

Heston had contributed and raised thousands of dollars in Hollywood for Martin Luther King Jr.'s movement, said Earl Ofari Hutchinson, president of the Los Angeles Urban Policy Round Table.

"We certainly disagree with his position as NRA head and also his firm, firm, unwavering support of the unlimited right to bear arms," Hutchinson said. But, he added, "Charlton Heston was a complex individual. He lived a long time, and certainly, there were many phases. The phases we prefer to remember were certainly his contributions to Dr. King and civil rights."


Utterly reasonable, and refreshing, that quote and approach, dontcha think?

Roger said...

Reader: I fear that for many of the Kos kids, their understanding of history started in 2000 with the Florida election.

Hoosier Daddy said...

That's why I have zero tolerance for the left. For a group that considers themselves 'tolerant' and 'progressive' they are the most mean spirited, hate filled people on the planet.

Then again these were the same people who cheered Tony Snow getting cancer so can anyone really be surprised?

reader_iam said...

Warning: The link to the picture is slow to resolve to the picture itself. But it's there. Patience!

reader_iam said...

Roger: The truly depressing thing about that, of course, is that--if my understanding is correct--more of the Kos Kidz than not aren't kids. That is the true shame of it.

Freder Frederson said...

Oh, some bloggers on Kos are mean!

Gee, yet you all tolerate Cedarford every day. And he hates everybody who isn't a white, male American.

Do you people even bother to read what you write? Heck, the post previous to this one is about Hitchens being his usual dickish self. And there is an entire stable of rightwing "pundits" whose entire career is based on insulting people (e.g., O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Mallikin, Coulter, Hannity).

But I suppose they are just being "honest" and "exposing the lies of the left" while anyone who criticizes people on the right is being hateful.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But I suppose they are just being "honest" and "exposing the lies of the left" while anyone who criticizes people on the right is being hateful.

Yes Freder, expressing joy over someone's death because they were an NRA supporter or cheering someone's terminal cancer cause he's a Bush spokesperson is 'criticizing'.

The Florida Masochist said...

I got called a hysterical right winger at Daily Kos once. To even it out Michelle Malkin once referred to me as a moonbat. A Florida politicall blog called me middle of the road. Which is the closest to being the truth.

Cheers,

Bill

titusdida23yearold said...

I am sorry but I can't watch anything with Bill O'Reilly in it.

His brand of journalism where he has some young kid wait around politicans and judges houses and then turns the camera on them when they come home from work is frightening.

Also, it isn't truthful.

Last week he sabatoged a Massachusetts leglislator who put a hold on a "Jessica's Law" piece of leglislature. The reason he put the hold on was because there was some loophole that would of been less harsh to the criminal. But O'Reilly didn't mention that in his piece.

And the sad thing about the entire episode wasn't really about O'Reilly's interest in the truth or the law but more of an opportunity for himself to look like he was doing the right thing.

Also, when you do this type of "reporting" you invite crazies to potentially seek these politicans and judges out.

Not my cup of tea.

Also, there have been comments on his site that been hate filled but that doesn't matter I guess.

And I am not justifying any hateful comments on Kos. I don't read the site and have no interest in it.

No gay bar in Michigan City? Bummer.

Freder Frederson said...

Yes Freder, expressing joy over someone's death because they were an NRA supporter or cheering someone's terminal cancer cause he's a Bush spokesperson is 'criticizing'.

I am merely pointing out that picking on commentors in blogs as being mean--right or left--is like pointing out the sky is blue.

This blog isn't even that conservative (try FreeRepublic or LGF for some real vitriol) yet we still have a resident unrepentent Nazi who several people defend frequently and Ann never criticizes or scolds.

And as far as hatemongers who actually get airtime on radio and TV, the right has the left beat hands down.

reader_iam said...

Freder, I for one have no problem calling out either side, and I'm not alone here in that. So screw your "you people" crap; you only undermine your own point and underline the too broad-brush statements of others which you're supposedly objecting to.

Sheesh.

Bob said...

Fred Frederson: This blog isn't even that conservative (try FreeRepublic or LGF for some real vitriol) yet we still have a resident unrepentent Nazi who several people defend frequently and Ann never criticizes or scolds.

I invoke Godwin's Law against Frederson. Ann tolerates Cedarford because he stays within the range of what she judges to be civilized discourse. Her blog, her rules.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I am merely pointing out that picking on commentors in blogs as being mean--right or left--is like pointing out the sky is blue.

Well Freder, the conventional wisdom in the liberal world is that anyone with a conservative view = NAZI wheras the left loves to style itself as 'tolerant' yet act anything but.

As for Cedar, your obvious obsession with the man is really tiresome. I haven't seen anyone on here defend anything he has ever said whereas it seems you are the only one who probably spends the time reading what he says.

Trooper York said...

I don't think many people defend Cedarford's viewpoint, but I think he is entitled to it just as Cyrus, Titus, Ruth Anne and the Drill Sgt are entitled as well. The professor merely provides a forum for us to speak and very seldom criticizes or scolds anyone no matter how outrageous the post. Although I wish she would do something about reader_iam. So self-involved. It all about her. Jeeez.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Cedarford should just come out and say he's an Arab Muslim that way his anti-Semitism can then be excused as a celebration of his rich and vibrant multi-culturalism and as a legimitate expression of his grievances over the illegal and immoral Israeli occupation of Palestine.

Then we can then just call him El Ced.

Original Mike said...

Freder!!! How are those remedial physics lessons coming? Have you gotten to conservation of energy yet?

AllenS said...

Today, the sky is gray, not blue. Freder is an idiot.

Original Mike said...

Roger said: I fear that for many of the Kos kids, their understanding of history started in 2000 with the Florida election.

Given that they have no understanding of history to this day, it can't have started in 2000.

reader_iam said...

Trooper: What's that you're saying? Your insults are Greek to me when they're in English. Try Martian, or something.

***

Freder: See? Althouse attracts all types. She's even got people who live to poke the oddballs and moderates. What the hell more do you want?

Freder Frederson said...

I invoke Godwin's Law against Frederson. Ann tolerates Cedarford because he stays within the range of what she judges to be civilized discourse.

Godwin's Law only applies when the comparison is inapt. Cedarford is a raving anti-semite who believes the Jews manipulate and control everything (they are even responsible for the interstate highway system). He also is a eugenicist who believes that the white race is inherently more intelligent and blacks inferior.

Maybe it is not fair to call him a Nazi since he also apparently believes that Nazism (along with communism naturally) itself was a Jewish plot (one that went horribly wrong of course).

As for his rantings being within the realm of civilized discourse. He thinks I deserve to be lynched because I oppose torture. He has also called me a traitor for the very same reason. Ann calls me a jerk and an asshole because I called her a hypocrite and silly and make fun of her for liking American Idol.

So her concept of "civilized discourse" is baffling.

The Drill SGT said...

Trooper, Trooper,

What did I ever do or say about you that Ruth Ann and I should be lumped in with Cedarford? I thought we had common ground, somewhere near a ford on the Rio Grande.

I think Cedarford is an unrepentant anti-semitic conspiracy nut, who occassionally says something profound, on the other hand, he doesn't curse other commenters here (as I recall), nor wish people dead (as I recall).

I try to be civil to all concerned here, that is why I no longer bother responding to Freder or DTL. My Doctor says it isn't good for my health :)

AJ Lynch said...

Titus:

You may be correct about the "loophole". If so, why didn't that Massachusetts legislator simply say that to the Fox reporter?

titusdida23yearold said...

You mean this isn't a conservative site?

If it's not I am leaving.

titusdida23yearold said...

The doggys are going to the vet for their annual shots and weigh in-uh oh.

Cedarford said...

Freder, you stand and fall on the merits of your own words, not mine.

And, you have a pattern of saying dumb things (energy is NOT conserved!!) and anti-American things.

Which leads many to give you the respect you deserve...namely...little.

***********

I dislike the "hate bloggers" who have so warped the political into the personal that many appear to honestly crave the death or suffering of fellow Americans who disagree with them, even on minor political matters.

Many are just the twerps on the Left or Right, but disturbingly, I think there is a smattering of twisted,evil people who are serious.
That is quite different than wishing for the death or destruction of an enemy of the American people, engaged in war or terrorism directed at the American people. Wishing for Adam Gadan to be shot by a special ops soldier, or the 9/11 Mastermind to finally face justice after 6+ years despite the Talmudic Argumentation and endless appeals nature of what the US criminal justice system has become - is quite different than someone hoping Obama gets cancer or Tony Snow or Elisabeth Edwards soon dies painfully from it because they are peaceful fellow citizens you disagree with.

Such extremist talk usually is accompanied by the "murderer justification". Abortion doctors deserve assassination because they are "baby murderers". Bush should face trials for war crimes because he "murdered a million Iraqis". Charleton Heston's death should be celebrated because his pro gun stance "murders" black children shot by other black "children" aged 15-18.

And Halliburton, cops, Oliver Stone, America's doctors, coal mine operators, Smith&Wesson, Ford, NOLA levee builders, military recuiters, ROTC, ACLU, Jesse Jackson are all evil and culpable - in various extremists eyes - for killing people..thus they claim extremist sentiments are warranted. Same with "murdering American stormtroopers oppressing innocent brown peoples and butchering their babies in Vietn...err...Iraq!!

Trooper York said...

No offense Drill Sgt, I just wanted to pick the people with the most diverse viewpoints to show that we all welcome here under the professor's wing. Execpt for that preening egoist, reader_iam.

WHO ARE YOU CALLING AN ODDBALL?

Well for your reader:

Treeha mouni travai karavee!!!!

vet66 said...

aj lynch;

The people Titus looks up to pee on his boots and call it rain. He believes them, which is his chief failing.

Trooper York said...

I prefer to think of myself as eccentric. My balls are perfectly normal, not odd in the least. Occasionally itchy, but a little gold balm powder takes care of that. But thank you for your concern. All the best, your pal Trooper.

reader_iam said...

Trooper: You were the poker. I was oddball and moderate.

Sheesh again, I say.

***

Freder: Found the perfect eco-thing for you to do with the meds you're not taking: The Earth Day Challenge. While you're at, why don't you just give them your computer, too.

***

(Actually, I think the program's a good thing, to be clear.)

reader_iam said...

Freder: On second thought, keep the computer. It wouldn't be the same around here without you.

titusdida23yearold said...

Vet66 how do you know who the people are I look up to?

I actually don't look up to anyone;

titusdida23yearold said...

Oh, I look up to my dogs but they aren't people-but they are people to me.

I look up to really hot guys too with great bodies who can bench press a lot and have amazing abs.

Trooper York said...

I am sorry reader; I couldn't follow it since it was so straight forward and normal. I usually have a hard time following your elliptical phraseology. When you post a simple declarative sentence I get all flustered. But I am very sorry to hear that you have odd balls.

titusdida23yearold said...

Oh, sorry didn't see your comment AJ. He should of, don't know why he didn't.

I don't look up to the Mass Leglislature. He voted against gay marriage. I emailed him about it years ago because I have friends living in his district-Chelsea, Ma and he told me he didn't know Chelsea Mass has a large gay population but it does. He was a dick.

Cedarford said...

"Hoosier Daddy said...
Cedarford should just come out and say he's an Arab Muslim that way his anti-Semitism can then be excused as a celebration of his rich and vibrant multi-culturalism and as a legimitate expression of his grievances over the illegal and immoral Israeli occupation of Palestine.
Then we can then just call him El Ced."

El Cid, of course, was the guy that pummeled the Arabs when he wasn't fighting for certain "reasonable" Muslims. Ironically, his nome de guerre is Islamic: Al Sayy'id=The Lord

As for the Zionists and Islamoid radicals, same as with the Montagues and capulets - "A pox on both their houses". We have both Jewish Americans and Muslim Americans serving long jail stretches because of their dual loyalty issues.

My beef with Jews is their incessant corruption and meddling in the affairs of society through subtrefuge and undemocratic means of influence to get disproportionate power and wealth from the majority. It is that, rather than some magic bias that suddenly arises in nations that originally welcomed Jews in from Roman times, that eventually leads majorities to tell them to haul ass out as unwanted non-natives. The bad Jews and the ill will they generate with the host population seems to overcome the good will of stand up, righteous, honest Jews. Happens in every country, eventually.

Trust, me, I have beefs with other groups. Not being a multiculti afficionado, I see no group meriting an immunity amulet from criticism.
Muslims, Fundies, black underclass, Ruling Elites, Yankees, SF Democrats, gays, Bush corporatists, scientologists, commies, feminists, supply-siders...many more..In fact, no group in America is immune to criticism, though I can't come up with anything on why Filipino-Americans or Swedish-Americans deserve slamming. There must be something!

mickey said...

The problem with hate bloggers as I see it, is that peeps like Fred see them hate, and try to spin it back on the person who decries the hate.
If we are ever to have honest discourse, then denouncing OBVIOUS hate is a simple place to start.
Cheering for someones death or for Tony Snow's cancer is sick and disgusting. Fred doesn't have the sense of a goose to keep his cake hole shut. Instead he points out, (like a second grader) "Well you said something mean too!!"
The Daily Kooks have discredited themselves. Pure and simple.

mickey said...

I have to agree with Cedarford, he isn't a bigot.
He hates everyone.
He is an equal oppurtunity hater.
I wonder which of his categories, HE falls into.

Trooper York said...

"though I can't come up with anything on why Filipino-Americans or Swedish-Americans deserve slamming. There must be something!"

Well you obviously don't watch Ameican Idol because Filipino-Americans give us lousy midget girl singers and those Swedes, what about that god damn herring.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I have to agree with Cedarford, he isn't a bigot.
He hates everyone.


In reality, Cedarford is Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

There is no racial bigotry here. I do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers. Here, you are all equally worthless.
Full Metal Jacket (1987)

Middle Class Guy said...

The people at Huffpo and Kos are nothing more than immature teenage squibs releasing all their hormones through foul disrespectful speech. Best to just ignore them as they really have nothing worthwhile to say. It is all about shock value.

SteveR said...

Titus ("I am sorry but I can't watch anything with Bill O'Reilly in it.") for someone who can't watch O'Reilly, it might be better not to comment on specific segments of his show. Since you can't watch it, you would have had to derive your opinion of that particular segment from someone else's interpretation. Of course that's dangerous since the context is completely lost on you as well as the utterly pathetic job the sabotaged legislator did explaining his position. He could have just shut up.

Elliott A said...

Cedarford..

The problem with Jews (I am one) is we are all at the right of the intelligence bell curve and therefore have no choice but to be professional, successful, etc. Since for most of History we were not accepted in societies of every type, it was essential to learn to function at the edges and in the shadows in order to survive. Now, with freer societies, we are no more or less sneaky than anyone else, just as in most things, better at it.

Roger J. said...

Cedarford: Re Swedish-Americans, some possible reasons--excessive use of accordian music, bloated herrings, and in general fish for breakfast--I will pin lutefisk on the Norwegians, although the Norwegians did suffer under the yoke of Sweden till early last century. :)

Trooper York said...

Me ois vaxen svi a tsibele miten cup in vant.

The Drill SGT said...

Hoosier Daddy said...
I have to agree with Cedarford, he isn't a bigot.
He hates everyone.

In reality, Cedarford is Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.


Am astonished that Trooper didn't jump in with the earlier version:

Gonzales: There is one question, Inspector Callahan: Why do they call you "Dirty Harry"?
De Georgio: Ah that's one thing about our Harry, doesn't play any favorites! Harry hates everybody: Limeys, Micks, Hebes, Fat Dagos, Niggers, Honkies, Chinks, you name it.
Gonzales: How does he feel about Mexicans?
De Georgio: Ask him.
Harry Callahan: Especially Spics.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Am astonished that Trooper didn't jump in with the earlier version:

I'm astonished I beat him to a quote at all.

Bob said...

Swedish-Americans and other Scandinavians are the special targets of hate at the Ace of Spades HQ website, where they are called "Scandis" and any mention of them is met with universal cursing and the Finger of Scorn.

*laughs*

Trooper York said...

Archie Bunker: Well if all blood's the same, let me ask you this: how come they ain't got no Swedes in the mafia?
Mike Stivic: What does that got to do with anything?
Archie Bunker: Because your Italians got a lock on it. That's why. It's in their blood. Same way it's in your blacks' blood to do the 'scooby-dooby-doo'.
(All in the Family, 1972)

AlphaLiberal said...

That Bilious Bill O'Reilly would accuse anyone of hate is a twisted joke. Bad twisted.

And then he says Media Matters engages in hate mongering because they simply republish his words. That's rather telling!

So Heston was criticized after he died. Yawn.

AlphaLiberal said...

Yeah, Heston should get credit for his civil rights work. Agreed.

And if someone wants to discuss the less positive sides of his life, there's no problem with that. He was a public figure.

Freeman Hunt said...

There is a local doctor who has a Kos diary. I started following it to learn more about his positions. The comments over there are shocking--worse than I've ever seen on any other political sites, Left or Right including Democratic Underground, Free Republic, or LGF. Kos is by far the most intolerant mainstream site on the Internet. Nowhere else can you find so much writing about the various tortures certain people would like to inflict on their political opponents.

If the United States ever fell to some kind of totalitarian control, these hateful sort of commenters would be the people informing on others and carrying out enforcement.

Trooper York said...

When public figures pass away, it is customary to not dwell on the more controversial topics to show some respect. So I personally promise that when Jane Fonda passes that I will not make any disparaging remarks about her anti-war activities and political disputes, but instead I intend to celebrate her stellar performances in Barbarella and Cat Ballou.

The Drill SGT said...

AlphaLiberal said...
And if someone wants to discuss the less positive sides of his life, there's no problem with that. He was a public figure.


LET'S LIST SOME:

- Campaigning for JFK
- WWII Bomber crewman
- Married to same woman for 64 years
- opposed the Vietnam war
- president of a Union (SAG)
- resigned from same union because of its racist decision on casting
- questioned CNN favorable coverage of Saddam in 1990
- Complained at Time-Warner stockholders meeting that the firm was promoting rap mussic that glorified killing police

want more?

Trooper York said...

I think we can all agree that both Charlton Heston and Jane Fonda were at their best in those movies where they displayed their breasts.

Hoosier Daddy said...

So Heston was criticized after he died. Yawn.

Yes. Cheering the death of someone because you don't share some of the same issues equals criticism.

Priceless. You and Freder both.

The Drill SGT said...

I agree Trooper, I like some of Hanoi Jane's films. I just won't buy them.

But I won't cheer her eventual death. She'll likely outlive me though. Her father lived a long time.

garage mahal said...

Cedarford is the most entertaining intellectual conservative on this site who happens to have a genuine and admirable Realpolitik streak in him. I disagree with most of what he says, but he is honest with his racism and bigotry and I find that rather refreshing. A herd animal he is not.

Freder Frederson said...

So I personally promise that when Jane Fonda passes that I will not make any disparaging remarks about her anti-war activities and political disputes, but instead I intend to celebrate her stellar performances in Barbarella and Cat Ballou.

I'm sure Ann will harshly criticize those performances, but then go on to inform us she never actually saw those movies, because she was just too hip, or they were on at the same time as AI and she couldn't figure out how to use the TIVO.

Of course Ann will remind us that most people (meaning Ann) remember Jane Fonda for her performance in On Golden Pond, her workout videos
and saying a certain bad word on GMA (which of course O'Reilly would have slapped her, or maybe offered her a felafel, for if she had said it on his show

Trooper York said...

You should certainly never cheer someones death. When we remember them at the time of their passing, we should dwell on the good things that they did and celebrate them for their contributions to human pagent. History will have it's own verdict in time after all who were alive at the same time are gone and passions have cooled. Personally I will salute Michael Moore when he goes because he has been very useful to me. Because as long as he is around, I can always say,"Well at least I ain't as fat and disgusting as Michael Moore, are there any donuts left?"

garage mahal said...

Trooper
Your post had a bit of Jack Handey to it. Made me think of this beaut:

"I bet for an Indian, shooting an old fat pioneer woman in the back with an arrow, and she fires her shotgun into the ground as she falls over, is like the top thing you can do".

Freder Frederson said...

Cedarford is the most entertaining intellectual conservative on this site who happens to have a genuine and admirable Realpolitik streak in him.

This is like saying Hitler built the autobahns and put on a fantastic Olympics in 1936.

Trooper York said...

"I bet for an Indian, giving confusing directions and not comprehending your problem when your computer is messed up and making you crazy, is like the top thing you can do".

Hoosier Daddy said...

This is like saying Hitler built the autobahns and put on a fantastic Olympics in 1936.

Don't forget the Fuhrer also loved animals, was a committed vegetarian, encouraged sweeping social security measures and despised smoking. Take away the whole genocide thing and he'd fit right in with modern liberals today.

Go figure.

mickey said...

Trooper, maybe you don't understand the current version of unhinged liberals. AlphaLib has no moral nor conscience. Ergo, cheering someone's death cannot be wrong for him. He puts a little lipstick on the pig and voila!!
It's just criticism.
Let's imagine we cheered when Jimmy Carter dies.
Would that be ok?

mickey said...

I bet Hitler could have used Michael Moore.

Synova said...

I think with Michael Moore I'd have to follow the "if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all" route. Though I did once opine about him that it was a good thing that marginally employable people could support themselves.

You know, if people were saying, "I didn't care for Charlton Heston because...." that would be different. What did he do to deserve vile hatred at his death? Only be prominent and hold conservative viewpoints. And I suppose that's enough for some.

But that says more about the person hating him that it does anything else.

But there is a true thing that people should remember. Disrespecting dead people says little or nothing about the person who died, and everything about *you*.

A publisher died who many people disliked and many people liked a lot. After he died most people, including those who disliked him, tried to think of the good things he'd done, despite an abrasive personality. But I was at a con and an artist happened to mention him and BRAVELY just out and said he was *glad* the man had died. Really and truly happy to hear that he was dead and really hated to hear people even hinting at anything good.

In person what that sounds like is this... "I hated working for him as an artist but I did it any way because I have no standards even though now I'm claiming I do and I whined the whole d*mn time I voluntarily worked for him because at heart I'm a whiner. So I put up with him and bitched at my friends about it and now I get to tell everyone here about what a horrible person he was. Yay, me!"

Maybe over the internet we're all faceless enough that we don't see that mirror at all.

The Drill SGT said...

mickey said...
I bet Hitler could have used Michael Moore.


He had better.

Leni was not only a better artist and film maker, she was also a lot more pleasing to the eye. Can you image wanting to watch Moores stuff in 60 years?

"Triumph of the Will" is a timeless beautiful film about a nasty brutish subject.

But it is watchable today. Film makers still learn from it. The scenes in "The Two Towers" with Saruman looking out over his army are supposed to be modeled after Leni's work.

Middle Class Guy said...

mickey said...
Let's imagine we cheered when Jimmy Carter dies.
Would that be ok?


I will cheer when he dies. The man was an abject failure, accomplished nothing, and is responsible for our current situation. Same holds true for Uncle Festus Clinton; another waste of oxygen.

Dennis said...

I hate to defend Freder, but I hate to see Godwin's Law misinvoked and misunderstood even more.

For the record, all Godwin's Law states is that a Nazi reference becomes more and more likely the longer an Internet debates goes on. Godwin's Law does not take sides on the matter or criticize the occurrence.

So it's wrong to claim that the first person who brings up Nazis loses. Freder's wrong, too, however, in that Godwin's Law has nothing to do with whether an analogy is apt.

John K. said...

Elliot A said (in response to Cedarford): "The problem with Jews (I am one) is we are all at the right of the intelligence bell curve and therefore have no choice but to be professional, successful, etc."

Elliot's comment has got me thinking hard about whether I've ever known any dumb Jews. I have indeed known some very sneaky and dishonest ones, but then I've also been closely associated with some having great integrity and devotion to truth. I have to admit that it does seem that Jews are indeed on average smarter than us white folks. On the other hand, upon reflection Jews don't seem to be represented among the handful of personages I've personally considered truly great -- Henry George, Lysander Spooner, Thomas Jefferson, Schopenhauer, Aquinas, Mel Gibson, Jesus Christ, etc, etc. (I believe that Jesus was African-American.) I suppose there's Einstein, who gave us (meaning all of us) the atomic bomb, for which we are eternally grateful.

But I think that Cedarford's racist approach is worse than useless. I think it's a fine and exemplary thing to hate bankers, usurers and other assorted financiers and shell-game con artists. By doing so, you will inevitably wind up hating a disproportionate number of Jews. But at least then you will be hating them for a good reason and not because of who their daddy's were, which is irrelevant, and you won't forget to round up also the numerically larger group of honkey-bankers who are equally guilty.

Trooper York said...

There was this old time studio head who was a real scumbag who everyone hated. He was the originator of the casting couch and was mobbed up and a lot of other stuff. The model for the producer in the Godfather with the horse in the bed. When he died about 10,000 people went to his funeral. When the press asked Errol
Flynn as he was leaving the service why were so many people at the funeral of someone that was universaly despised, he said:

"Hey when you give the people something they really want...."

The Drill SGT said...

"Hey when you give the people something they really want...."

I thought the punch line was gonna be: "to make sure he's really dead" :)

Freder Frederson said...

Take away the whole genocide thing and he'd fit right in with modern liberals today.

But on the other hand he believed in a strong national defense, the superiority of his nation and form of government over all others. That war as a means to achieve policy ends was justified. That criticism of the government and policy was equivalent to treason. He also derided "decadant" art and believed in strong traditional families and "traditional" family values. He also extolled hard work, personal sacrifice, and service to the country.

Who does that sound like?

MadisonMan said...

Have you ever had one of those days when it's just scorching hot from the time you get up and you just can't cool off, no matter how many hot pepper margaritas the guy next door (Mr. Ba'al) gives you?

Speaking of Mr. Ba'al, you wouldn't believe the outfit he was wearing today! Flaming red espadrilles just covered the cloven hooves. Well, they would have, but they were open-toe. Totally gross, you could see the toe jam. He's gonna be my boss at the coal-shoveling factory, and I can tell he's gonna be a bitch to work for. He really broke Cheney at the strip joint down the street. At least that's what they told me.

(Taken from overlookinghell.blogspot.com)

Cedarford said...

"Trooper York said...
There was this old time studio head who was a real scumbag who everyone hated. He was the originator of the casting couch and was mobbed up and a lot of other stuff. The model for the producer in the Godfather with the horse in the bed. When he died about 10,000 people went to his funeral. When the press asked Errol
Flynn as he was leaving the service why were so many people at the funeral of someone that was universaly despised, he said:
"Hey when you give the people something they really want...."

Damn, I really, really want that story to be true!

Got me thinking about Fonda, too York!

The woman has had some excellent films - Besides Cat Ballou, They Shoot Horses, Coming Home, Agnes of God, Barefoot in the Park, the famous China Syndrome all wear well. But her pinnacle was Barberella, for capturing her true inner bimbo...

Trooper York said...

The story is true Ced, it was Harry Cohn.

garage mahal said...

Freder
Seriously, go over to Daily Kos, put your scrubs on, and venture in and behold the Brownshirts.

I say this as a life long Democrat dammit.

Revenant said...

But on the other hand he believed in a strong national defense, the superiority of his nation and form of government over all others.

Do Democrats favor a weak national defense and believe that democracy is no better than dictatorship and that America is no better than other nations?

I mean, I guess they might, but I've never heard one actually admit it.

titusdida23yearold said...

"Titus ("I am sorry but I can't watch anything with Bill O'Reilly in it.") for someone who can't watch O'Reilly, it might be better not to comment on specific segments of his show. Since you can't watch it, you would have had to derive your opinion of that particular segment from someone else's interpretation. Of course that's dangerous since the context is completely lost on you as well as the utterly pathetic job the sabotaged legislator did explaining his position. He could have just shut up."

I saw the entire O'Reilly segment and the Eugene O'Flaherty response on a program called Beat the Press in Boston.

I am not going to go back and forth with anyone here about it because obviously I am lieing and defaming Bill O'Reilly.

If you want to look up he segment you can go to Beat The Press with Emily Rooney. She is not some left wing loon either she just has a low key program analyzing press stories.

titusdida23yearold said...

Also, as I stated I dislike Eugene O'Flaherty and think he is a dick.

But the story that was put on the O'Relly Program, that I saw on Beat The Press, did not convey all of the details as to why this legislater did what he did.

I don't watch Bill O'Reilly. I try to be positive and enjoy life and watching that for 1 hour everyday would not be enjoyable to me. And because of that I am horrible.

mickey said...

Hitler was intolerant of others.
Definately a Democrat.
He believed in Government control of industry.
He believed in euthenasia.
Yes, he was definately a Democrat.
He believed taking others land for his purposes was ok.
Definately a Democrat.
He was a friend to other dictators.
Dem.

blake said...

Titus-- meh, I can't watch O'Reilly either, but I could describe segments of his show.

blake said...

Meanwhile, I went to schools that were 95% Jewish and I assure you, I met lots of morons.

I also have met many other less-than-bright Jews in my post-Academic career, including some who were so bad with money as to have squandered empires.

Trooper York said...

"I don't watch Bill O'Reilly. I try to be positive and enjoy life and watching that for 1 hour everyday would not be enjoyable to me. And because of that I am horrible."

No that's not it. You are horrible because you let your 23 year old puke all over your rare clumbers. For shame sir. I hope you gave them some treats to make up for this trauma.

Original Mike said...

Rev said: Do Democrats favor a weak national defense and believe that democracy is no better than dictatorship and that America is no better than other nations?

I mean, I guess they might, but I've never heard one actually admit it.


OUCH.

blake said...

Also extra credit for garage calling out Kos. That's refreshing.

Fen said...

Freder: But on the other hand he believed in a strong national defense, the superiority of his nation and form of government over all others. That war as a means to achieve policy ends was justified. That criticism of the government and policy was equivalent to treason. He also derided "decadant" art and believed in strong traditional families and "traditional" family values. He also extolled hard work, personal sacrifice, and service to the country. Who does that sound like?

Shorter Freder:

a) Hitler was a mediocre painter.

b) thus, all mediocre painters are Nazis.

MadisonMan said...

Definately a Democrat.
He was a friend to other dictators.
Dem.


Like this guy?

(You can probably guess the image before clicking)

Fen said...

freder: I am merely pointing out that picking on commentors in blogs as being mean--right or left--is like pointing out the sky is blue.

I think this is where your failure begins. Don't define youself by what the other side does, or by what you think they do.

Dancing on someone's grave is wrong, no matter who does it. You shouldn't need to draw equivalence to excuse it; you should simply denounce it as wrong.

mickey said...

MadisonMan, your link didn't work, but maybe mine will.
I don't know who you were linking, but if you are from Madison, I'm sure the perp you showed has been deposed by us/U.S.
How about this little love fest??
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/tescosuicide/ALa2/ALa3/Kim_Jong_Il_and_Madeleine_Albright.jpg

Fen said...

Hey, I've got a jpeg of FDR and Stalin shaking hands. I could post it, but I'm not sure what it proves.

John K. said...

The caricature that links "Jew" with "banker" at first blush seems unfair to Jewish people, because Jews aren't the only ones who engage in that morally questionable occupation. However, IF banking is indeed an occupation devoid of honor and if indeed a disproportionately high number of Jewish people relative to other races seem to engage in it, the caricature that naturally arises from that coincidence arguably has a positive social effect by discouraging some Jews from entering that occupation who otherwise would. And who does the caricature hurt or mock except those who elect to become Jewish bankers despite it? You would think that the caricature would help ensure that only those Jews who are truly called to banking, who aren't just in it for the money but are in it for the sheer love of banking, will go into that field, and that the number of Jewish bankers would therefore become more in line with that of the population as a whole. By contrast, when it comes to Jews who do not go into banking, the caricature of the Jewish banker, far from being a negative, seems to highlight and distinguish the virtues of the Jewish manufacturer or farmer who has instead gone into some kind of productive work.

If it be objected that Jewish people are known not only for banking but also for lawyering, then I rest my case.

If it be objected that Jewish people are known not only for banking and lawyering but also for science and medicine, I grant the point, that those things constitute productive work, with the caveat that those fields also appear permeated with the nefarious influence of self-serving not-so-secret conspiracies.

Just saying, maybe Cedarford and Bill Cosby have a point in not being shy about condemning "black thugs."

Joan said...

John K: I believe that Jesus was African-American.

I'm feeling particularly dense right now... that was a joke, right? Because everyone knows that Jesus, born in Bethlehem to his Nazarene parents, was Jewish. I suppose racially, he was a Semite.

Maybe that was a subtle, passing reference to the Obama/Wright controversy...

John K. said...

Yes, Joan, that was a joke, and it was a subtle passing reference to the Obama/Wright controversy.

Trooper York said...

At least we know Jesus wasn't a Quaker, cause he really hated oatmeal, he was into falafel.

John K. said...

Unfortunately modern Quakers seem to prefer falafel over oatmeal. It's all about simplicity, ya know.

Revenant said...

Dancing on someone's grave is wrong, no matter who does it.

I have to disagree with that. There are plenty of deaths that are worth celebrating. The death of a guy who put his life and career on the line to march in support of civil rights, however, doesn't strike me as being one of them, even if he did commit the horrible sin of favoring self-defense rights as well.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Gee, yet you all tolerate Cedarford every day."

Who is this you all of whom you speak? I don't tolerate him, at all.

Not that I like you very much either, but he's worse.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Cedarford is a raving anti-semite who believes the Jews manipulate and control everything (they are even responsible for the interstate highway system). He also is a eugenicist who believes that the white race is inherently more intelligent and blacks inferior."

But damn, then you make me have to go and defend him. Cedarford is not raving. He is rather measured in his rhetorical approach.

EnigmatiCore said...

"My beef with Jews"

You have a beef with Jews? No WAY! YOU?!

Will wonders never cease?

MadisonMan said...

Nothing kills a joke like having to explain it.

Revenant said...

Who is this you all of whom you speak? I don't tolerate him, at all.

How exactly does one go about "not tolerating" another poster in somebody else's blog comments? Yeah, Cedarford's a bigot. So's Freder. I wish they'd both piss off and go write someplace else, but this isn't my blog so that isn't my call to make. For that matter, Blogger comments don't actually support doing that either.

Synova said...

Actually, tolerate means tolerate.

It doesn't mean "agree with" or anything else like that no matter how much the tolerance police insist that tolerance requires joyful embrace of that which is tolerated.

Synova said...

I think that dancing on graves is wrong no matter who's grave... with so few exceptions that it's not really worth softening the statement to make it less absolute.

Dancing on graves is wrong.

It shows more about the dancer than anything else. Particularly when the person who has died is simply of a different political opinion rather than a vile monster.

If we knew were Bin Laden's grave was it would probably be okay to dance on it. Or some other mass-murderer. I'm sure we can think of some people it would be appropriate to dance over.

But simply disliking or not getting along with someone is no excuse. Those who dance on Hestons's grave are morally aligned with such as Fred Phelps.

Period.

Palladian said...

""My beef with Jews"

You have a beef with Jews? No WAY! YOU?!"

What's this talk of beef? It got me thinking that it's better described as Cedarford's pork with Jews, but then I thought of "hog" as used by one of Althouse's more sordid commenters and it started to seem dirty. So I stopped.

garage mahal said...

Cedarford as far as I know has never advocated or condoned violence to any group of people. His posts don't drip with hate, unlike many who post here. You can disagree with his conclusions, or how he got there, but what I see is alot of pragmatism in his views on Iraq and the permanent class of underlings that have to fight it, and his dislike of elitism, greed, corporatism and the top heavy makeup of this country. Even realistic needs of accesible and affordable healthcare. Hardly the stuff of some closet Nazi skinhead. Worries not Cedar, even little 70 yr old Democrats like Geraldine Ferraro have been banished into the closet with you.

Revenant said...

That's an interesting little insight into garageworld -- it is ok to hate Jews, provided you agree with the Left on other points.

EnigmatiCore said...

"How exactly does one go about "not tolerating" another poster in somebody else's blog comments?"

Like you just did?

Revenant said...

I also have to ask... how is disliking "elitism, greed, corporatism and the top heavy makeup of this country" and supporting "accesible and affordable healthcare" somehow un-Nazi? Those were the Nazi party's positions.

reader_iam said...

unlike many who post here

What I want to know is, what is meant by "many"? And what is the approximate "whole" of which that "many" is a significant subset--enough, in fact, to qualify as "many"?

Garage: I would go so far as to challenge you to name names of the hate-drippers AND estimate what percentage they comprise of the whole.

Specifying the specific hate--that is, hates--being dripped would be quite helpful to the endeavor.

With all due respect, I'm serious: Let's have it.

titushi there! said...

Good evening fellow republicans. How is everyone tonight?

Weather is getting warm.

You know what that means? The tankeys are coming out. Yea!!!!

I have been busting my ass at the gym this winter and ready to show it off. The guns are ready for action!!!

Tonight I got my cycle of roids. 12 weeks (every Monday) going to my friend's nurse hatchet for the next three months to get shot up.

I am so excited.

reader_iam said...

I'll go one further. YOU define the terms of the argument: hate, hateful, dripping hate; the categories; and the standard of calibration.

I'll debate within your parameters, so long as you define them all of them clearly and name some names as examples, AND you address the "many" issue as outlined above.

You get set the field for the game.

Let's go.

Trooper York said...

I find that commenting on a blog is a lot like the schoolyard. We choose up sides and start to play the game. Taunting and rough play are part of the scene. Some of the kids are pussies like Freder and want the teacher to intervene when things don’t go their way. Some kids are in their own world and act out. Some are nerds who only want to raise their hands and answer the question so they can get a gold star or a pat on the head. Some are wise asses that the nuns are going to beat the shit out of but are the ones they call on to do stuff because they just have too much energy to sit still. This is just a big game of stickball and we all should just have some fun. The bell is gonna ring soon and we have to go inside and listen to some boring school stuff. The teacher will be back soon and Freder is gonna rat us out to get us all in trouble. I gonna go to boys room for a cigarette.

titushi there! said...

Also, I will be leaving for my road trip across the US-on Thursday.

The rare clumbers are very excited. The Beamer has been checked and we are ready to experience the real America, not this make believe place called NYC.

Trooper York said...

And reader is the tomboy who is better at sports than a lot of the guys. But shes a girly girl too!

reader_iam said...

And some of us are multi[though not all]-category multi-taskers, Trooper.

The challenge stands.

reader_iam said...

This is a limited time offer, insofar that if you can't reasonably quickly come up with names, examples, definitions and parameters, then you have no basis for making such sweeping statements, and using such loaded terms, to begin with.

Tick ... tick ... tick ... .

Trooper York said...

Well I don't think I am a hate dripper, I mean I am dripping a little but that's just a prostate thing that I am going to get fixed after the tax season is over. Or is that too much information. Sorry.

titushi there! said...

Reader's ready to rumble.

I'm ready for contentment.

titushi there! said...

I, too, drip, quite a bit, but it isn't from my prostate.

reader_iam said...

TY: Lubricate all you want, but I'm not talking to you, as well you know. Gather 'round or get out of the way ... .

titushi there! said...

Sorry to hear about your prostate Troop.

My doc said I have a prostate of a young boy.

I have had other ailments though.

That is life.

How we respond to any health issue determines how we get through the situation.

garage mahal said...

I never recall Cedarford saying he "hated" Jews [directly] or wished any harmed, was glad any were harmed, or "danced on their graves" as Revenant said upthread was perfectly acceptable in some cases. In fact, obit posts from Ann I recall Cedarford will usually say something positive about that person in a well thought out historical sensibility. Me, I appreciate that.

rcocean said...

Don't Like Heston - don't say anything.

Don't like Ceder - don't read him.

As for speaking ill of the dead. It'll be drinks on Rc when Castro dies. I celebrate Christmas, New Years, and the deaths of murderous Dictators with blood on their hands.

titushi there! said...

Reader, were you speaking with me?

Yikes, I am scared.

I didn't know you weren't talking to me. I actually never knew that we did speak with each other.

Good luck with your venture though.

titushi there! said...

I am a gay jew which is double trouble.

rcocean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
titushi there! said...

Women don't have prostates.

Do they?

titushi there! said...

I am having granola and yogurt for dindin.

I wish I knew how to cook something.

reader_iam said...

Non-responsive, garage mahal. Potentially revealing, however, though I will withhold judgment absent further information, facts and careful weighing.

Off to read a bedtime story to my 7-year-old.

titushi there! said...

Bye reader.

Have a good night.

reader_iam said...

Oh, I could be back at any time, Titus.

Sorry.

reader_iam said...

That is, sorry to break it to you.

titushi there! said...

There is no reason to be sorry Reader. I wasn't being sarcastic.

You are welcome back.

I tend to try and be a very positive person so I thought I was being nice by saying have a good night.

If not, have a good night, than welcome back!

I attended a pretty intense Bikram Yoga class tonight and my chakas are totally aligned so I am feeling really good.

titushi there! said...

I tend to not like to argue either. Tension damages my contentment.

Currently my wide second is totally free and allowing health toxins to enter my body where it is interspersing with millions of particles.

titushi there! said...

"Making prompt amends is the fresh air of each new day"

garage mahal said...

reader
I'll rescind the comment if you're that adamant about it. The topic at hand was blogging gleefully over someone's death. I seen it a few times on this thread, recll it many more times previously [in fairness on most political blogs], but yet Cedarford doesn't seem to take pleasure from someone else's misery or death, but constantly gets called out for it. He'll ridicule, mock, and blame the offended group for it yes. Big difference though. And even if he IS wrong, who cares? He's a smart guy, writes well, and is obviously well-read. This is an adult blog, for adults......get over it. [not you reader].

titushi there! said...

If people are quiet,
They can be quiet anywhere.
If people aren’t quiet
They won’t be quiet in the mountains.
Everything depends on you.
Life is transient,
Like a flash of lightning in a dream.
Before we receive this form,
We had another face,
Our original face.
We can’t see it with our eyes.
We can only know it with wisdom

Revenant said...

I never recall Cedarford saying he "hated" Jews [directly]

"Directly", he says...

Revenant said...

The rise of the Nazis is blamed on "Jewish Bolsheviks" here (they also get the blame for Stalin).

"Jewish Transnationalists" blamed for the "elitism, greed, and corporatism that so concerns Garage, here. He explains his reason for singling out the Jews by saying "Highlighting Jewish Transnationalists is no different than saying that there may be other terrorists, but for now, radical Islam is predominant."

Rain Pryor receives "the whigger bona fides her Jewish mother craved" here.

The "old Leftist Jewish attitude towards blacks" is blamed for Clarence Thomas' problems here.

But at least he's "a smart guy, writes well, and is obviously well-read", right? His posts blaming Nazism on the Jews "don't drip with hate" -- that's the important thing.

Sheesh.

reader_iam said...

Just curious, Rev: Did you consider leaving well enough alone and letting responses speak for themselves (in multiple ways)?

A final bed-time story takes about 10 minutes, tops, in my house, given the overall process. I was, in fact, pretty much right back, prepared to respond to anything, or to choose to let it go, based on what was said in the interim. And so I did, for measured reason (which included weighing my personal healthy dislike and skepticism of the idea that contempt-for-a-group, as opposed to contempt-for-an-individual, is somehow less reprehensible).

I find it interesting that you so much wanted to particularize the point on which you were picking up that you were willing to sacrifice the larger one. I can think of (even appreciate) multiple explanations for that. Still, it's hard to ignore the irony of that which you and, for example, garage mahal, have in common.

Revenant said...

I find it interesting that you so much wanted to particularize the point on which you were picking up that you were willing to sacrifice the larger one. I can think of (even appreciate) multiple explanations for that.

I wonder if "there was no larger point" is one of the explanations you thought of.

Garage exhibited an attitude that is enjoying a popular resurgence among both the Left and the far Right -- that it is acceptable to be a Jew-hater so long as your heart is in the right place on other issues. That is the "point" which concerned me. Maybe there is some more pressing issue which you thought was more important, but I assure you it wasn't one which interested me.

Pogo said...

What a stellar discussion. One of the best; made better I suppose by my absence.

There are many Graves To Dance Upon (Stalin, Mao Pol Pot, etc.), Graves to Celebrate (serial killers, rapists, child abusers, etc.), and Graves to Give One Cheer (one's various tormenters).

But dancing suggests frivolity and cheer, when the situation appears to call for mourning. Not mourning for them, but for those they harmed, and for the massive human failure their life represented.

Surely Heston's life does not fall into any of those camps meriting such vitriol, but I pretty much expected it from the Left. I note they were unable to similarly cheer WFBuckley's death, even though his mark on conservatism was far greater. It suggests the vast support in Kos land is poorly educated. Worse, it makes them look like the mobs during the French Revolution, all feeding frenzy and no intellect.

I once looked on the grave of a teacher of mine who had made my life a bit hellish for several years. I was ashamed for wanting to dance on her grave, and I take no pride in mentioning it.