February 28, 2008

Why is McCain appearing with a raving anti-Catholic?

I think Barack Obama didn't go far enough distancing himself from Louis Farrakhan, but McCain stood on a stage with John Hagee and openly accepted his endorsement.

Hagee in action:



Disgusting.

MORE: Here.

CORRECTION MADE: Hagee's first name is John, not Bill.

ADDED: Glenn Greenwald — posting the YouTube clip I found — writes:
Continuing with today's "politics/strange-bedfellows" theme, Ann Althouse called McCain's appearance with Hagee "disgusting" and posted the following You Tube in which Hagee shares some of his views on the Catholic Church.
I'd intended "Disgusting" to refer to the video, not to the McCain-Hagee appearance, but I accept the extension of my judgment to what McCain did. And I don't quite know what Greenwald means with his "strange-bedfellows" remark. Does he mean it's strange of him to ally with me? (Click the "Greenwald" tag below to see my history with Greenwald.) Or does he think that I'm deserting McCain? I saw this from Mark Kleiman:
Ann Althouse becomes, I think, the first conservative blogger to get on John McCain's case about his accepting the endorsement of Pastor John Hagee, who holds somewhat ... primitive ... views about Catholicism. Kudos to her....

How many Redbloggers will follow Althouse, and how many will simply button their lips.
This is big overestimation of my commitment to conservatives. I'm an independent blogger and I call them as I see them. The reason I appear allied with righties is that righties — as they say — look for converts and lefties look for heretics. I've gotten well-linked from the right, from bloggers who leave me alone when they disagree and give me positive reinforcement when they agree. This linkage makes me look like a traitor to my class (university professors) and I get punished from the left on a regular basis, with almost no positive reinforcement. For example, when I said I was voting for Obama in the Wisconsin primary, all I got from the left was the accusation that I was setting up a dramatic turn to McCain later in the year. It's just not like that for me. I'm not political the way those other bloggers are political.

100 comments:

Verso said...

Go Ann!

MadisonMan said...

There must be more to this story. Why do this now? Huckabee is finished, so why court the insane far right-wing part of the party?

I'll be charitable and say it doesn't look good.

Paddy O. said...

Ann, it's John Hagee. I am thinking you got the Bill from Donahue.

"so why court the insane far right-wing part of the party?"

Turn-out. With Dobson squarely against McCain he must think he needs someone else. Add to the fact that Huckabee is still in the race and a Texas blowout might help McCain focus solely on the Democrats.

Still... McCain sharing the stage with John Hagee certainly lowers McCain in my eyes. Though, Hagee's not really out of tune with a great, great many Evangelicals. Anti-Catholicism is a huge deal in the churches I've been too/worked at. Goes both ways in the ranks, though. Lots of Catholics are anti-Protestant still.

Hagee is embarrassing for a lot more reasons than his anti-Catholic stances. I would go on with all the very much not-so nice thoughts I have of him, but that wouldn't be very Christian of me.

rcocean said...

So, standing on a stage next to someone = endorsing their crazy religious beliefs.

Once again, all kinds of weirdos, extremists, child molesters, and bigots support both McCain and Obama. This is an non-issue.

And man, that's one wacky preacher. Does he handle snakes?

Richard said...

But Ann, if every candidate has to now turn away endorsements received from nut jobs, then only a third of the American electorate will be able to endorse anyone without their endorsement being spurned by the candidate. You think I jest, but look around you. On both the right and left we are literally covered in them, and it's likely to get much worse before it gets better.

Paddy O. said...

Okay. One thing. John Hagee symbolizes everything that's wrong with contemporary American Christianity. All of it. Everything that's wrong he exemplifies. If you went down a list and came up with all the aspects that are wrong and pieced them together you'd have something almost entirely like John Hagee.

He does have pretty charts though, got to give him that, even if they're mostly heresy and distortions of everything that Jesus came for.

Modern Otter said...

Maybe there's some weird strategy going on in McCain Country, something like a not-so-tall guy hanging around with short guys in order to look taller, only applied to sanity.

Simon said...

I don't know if that clip is comprehensible enough to be disgusting. It's a guy ranting incoherently based on a theory so open-ended that it could mean anything while gesticulating wildly towards an absolutely preposterous graphic. It's not a million miles from watching An Inconvenient Truth, come to think of it.

Simon said...

(I shall be crucified for that last remark, so emphasize that the Gore comparison was just a joke.)

Simon said...

MadisonMan said...
"Huckabee is finished, so why court the insane far right-wing part of the party?"

Because McCain can't win without them. I mean, if you mean the religious right generally, which I suspect you do, rather than the insane wing of the religious right, if a significant fraction of them stay home, game over.

Middle Class Guy said...

Paddy O. said...
He does have pretty charts though, got to give him that...



So did Ross Perot.

MadisonMan said...

I think Hagee is farther out there than most fundamentalists. That's just my opinion, of course. I should have written insanely far right-wing, and I suppose McCain does need them, just like Obama needs radical lefties, so you're probably right.

Smilin' Jack said...

Wikipedia: Most Reformation writers and all Reformers themselves, from Martin Luther (who wrote On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church), John Calvin, and John Knox (who wrote The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women) identify the Roman Catholic Church with the Whore of Babylon.[3]

Yawn. It's all just cult v. cult to me.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that this is counter productive for McCain, at least for the general election. A good part of the Reagan Democrats who have been enticed to vote for Republicans the last five elections are Catholics. And, as long as anti-Catholicism doesn't rear its ugly head, often fit in well due to their religious conservatism.

From my point of view, anti-Catholicism is so yesterday. As Protestants, my parents and their siblings were not really allowed to date Catholics. I mostly knew in HS who was Catholic, but there wasn't a big division. But now, 40 years later, many HS kids often can't tell you who is what, and it mostly just doesn't matter any more. And, as for me, three of my last four serious girlfriends are RC (and the other one, LDS).

Sure, theologically, I disagree on a number of points with the RC Church. But, then I do, to a lesser extent, with a lot of Evangelicals. Any more, the commonality of our faiths is far more important than the differences.

rhhardin said...

I don't get the disgust with it. It's straight fire-and-brimstone radio preaching. I love the stuff.

Southwest Radio Church used to be the best, because of their ``Bible in the News'' segment, wherein what happened in the news was shown to have been foretold in Bible prophecy.

Great line (1980s) : ``The savings and loan industry, once a leading economic indicator, now lies in ruins.''

Artificial Intelligence press releases played a huge role in this segment, always referred to as ``A One,'' which to an insider might diminish the impact of the thing a little, but who's an insider after all.

Alas! Today it is just a shadow of its former brimstone, with the Bible in the News segment feminized to local news in Jerusalem, and vast plains of wimping out throughout the show.

No more do you get interviews with UFO experts who prove ``through the process of logical elimination'' that UFOs are piloted by fallen angels trying to get the attention of the media.

Maybe truthers took over the enthusiasm after 9/11 and the Bible audience suffered a huge blow.

All this though is a poetic restatement of something else, which isn't at all disgusting.

What is the apocalypse? The Bible has messages, seals, delivering words, relay after relay. Derrida wonders in ``On a Newly Arisen Apocalyptic Tone in Philosophy'' on an essay of Kant.

It is the revealing of the other in general, who overturns everything. The messages are messages in general.

In short a poeticization of the start of ethics.

Which, going back to the top, is its fascination. That beginning is forever repeated in the chart and the references back and forth. It's a performance.

What it's about is very ordinary and happens every day.

Simon said...

MadisonMan said...
"I think Hagee is farther out there than most fundamentalists. That's just my opinion, of course."

Mine too. I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to judge a candidate by who supports them - but that's not Ann's point, I take it. It's one thing to be endorsed by someone; quite another to accept the endorsement, which is what McCain seems to be doing here. So, for example, it'd be no strike against Obama if the American Communist Party were to endorse him, but it would certainly be a strike against him were he to accept the nomination (or, worse yet, if he deserved the nomination). Another example: at some point during this season, it turned out that Ron Paul had been given money by some pretty unsavory people. That's not necessarily a problem - candidates don't vet every person chipping in a few bucks. It only became a valid and newsworthy problem when he failed to get rid of the money - give it back, give it to a charity the person donating the money would be horrified by, etc. It'd be silly to say that merely being endorsed by unsavory types reflects badly on the candidate - that was Rush Limbaugh's hypothesis the other week, that he should endorse Obama which would in turn torpedo Obama's campaign. The problem is if McCain adopts it (not that, you know, Bill Donohue is exactly a great spokesman for religious tolerance, but be that as it may...).

Palladian said...

So it's "disgusting" for one religious sect to criticize and deride the beliefs of another?

rcocean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

Looks like Hagee is a Neo-Con:

Here's his his website

nyomythus said...

Looks like Hagee is a Neo-Con ...for all the wrong Reasons.

titustutudancearabesque said...

Will we be seeing Bill Donahue all over the airways screaming now?


Who painted that backdrop for him?

Could you imagine him explaining to the painter I want a crazy look animal with a woman on top of it etc.

Sydney Carton said...

I'm about as conservative as you can get. I'm also a practicing Catholic.

I was in college in the young Republicans and was working hard to elect local Republican conservative candidates. I was friends with everyone else in the club... until they found out I was Catholic. "How can you be a conservative and be a Catholic?" They thought it was incompatible to believe in the spiritual authority of the Pope, and also to believe in concepts like limited government. They thought the Church was a hierarchy that was incompatible with limited government principals like federalism and checks and balances. But I didn't think morality was something that could be different for people, and subject to arguments used in government and politics.

Many Evangelicals hate Catholics. They're fed propaganda at an early age, just like the Palestinians are fed propaganda to hate the Jews. I went to Catholic school until 6th grade, and when I went to public school, the public school teachers asked if I knew any women of authority who weren't nuns. This was in the 1980s, in New Jersey. I was old enough to recognize how insulting those questions were, but I didn't say anything.

Anti-Catholicism is ultimately the last acceptable prejudice.

And I really wasn't going to vote for McCain anyway, but now I definitely won't.

EnigmatiCore said...

And McCain went nuts in 2000 in Michigan with his "Catholic Voter Alerts" because Bush had spoken at Bob Jones University.

Asshats.

Trumpit said...

"It's a guy ranting incoherently based on a theory so open-ended that it could mean anything while gesticulating wildly towards an absolutely preposterous graphic..."
-Simple Simon

He's taking about the anti-Christ devouring the apostolic whore... What's not to understand?

Right up your alley, Simon. You're the teapot calling the kettle black. Your hysterical ranting and gesticulating at some CO2 chart puts you in exactly the same category as the John Hagees and Ted Haggards of the world. It makes you look equally foolish. At least they had some kind of noxious religious training to explain the hatred they spew. What kind of scientific training have you had to make you an expert on global warming and its purported nonexistence?

Get yourself a laser pointer and a slide show and you too can pimp your way to stardom. Your props and shtick will be so 21st century compared to Hagee's dog and pony show.

ricpic said...

The Spanish Inquisition!!!

Trooper York said...

Well it is true that Protestants suck. They brought us crap like Prohibition and TV preachers. At least us mackerel snappers give out wine and a cookie for crying out loud.

Simon said...

I think that Revelation is so completely vague that it defies an interpretative criterion. Any construction is at best guesswork and at worst completely subjective. So I'm minded to say that it has no place in the canon. But I'm not a Christian so it's not really for me to say. The problem with your hyperventilating comment is that you have yet to answer my very simple question about causation. Without an answer there - not even necessarily a demonstrably correct answer, just one that's intellectually defensible - you really don't have any credibility on the subject.

Simon said...

Sory, that last comment was in reply to Trumpit, if it weren't clear.

Revenant said...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see what was so raving-ly bad about that video. Ok, so the guy has some nutty beliefs based on readings of old religious texts, but what religious person doesn't? He's certainly correct that the Catholic Church has been responsible for great evils and acts of democide over the years.

It would certainly be reasonable for Catholics to be offended by his beliefs about them. I'm offended by the Christian belief that I'm going to burn in Hell, but I don't consider Christians bigots for holding it.

George said...

Before WWII there was much, much, much more hostility on the part of Protestants towards Catholics than there is today. (Maybe vice versa, too.) Remember that Scorsese NY gang movie...

Billy Graham did much to change these attitudes...From a New Yorker profile...

One afternoon in the summer of 1955, as Graham was playing golf with the Duke of Windsor on a course near Versailles, he received a telegram from George Champion, the executive vice-president of Chase Manhattan Bank, asking him to hold a crusade in New York in 1957. Accepting the invitation, as Graham did, meant forcing the issue between the New Evangelicals and the fundamentalists once and for all. Champion represented the New York Protestant Council, the defining institution of the liberal establishment Church. The council’s sponsorship of the crusade meant Graham’s co√∂peration with liberal churchmen who not only purveyed adventurous theology but, in some cases, denied the very fundamentals of Christian orthodoxy.
Graham accepted the invitation precisely for that reason. He liked the New Evangelical program of engaging the culture, and, especially, of ecumenical fellowship with Christians with whose doctrines he disagreed—even including Catholics. Associating with Rome was, for Protestant conservatives, an error of the most serious kind, for reasons that were foundational to the Reformation: evangelicals believe in sola fide, salvation by faith alone, and in sola scriptura, that the Bible is the lone source of authority for Christians. But, in the years after the Los Angeles campaign, Graham had gradually decided that doctrinal differences weren’t that important among Christians. “I just loved all those people whoever they were,” Graham recalls. “They reached out for me. And I responded. I didn’t say to them, but I felt, I love these people. They’re people of God.”

Paddy O. said...

"Billy Graham did much to change these attitudes..."

Absolutely. And Billy Graham is really one of the key markers of Evangelicalism in contrast to Fundamentalism. He was the public face, Christianity Today was started as the magazine, and Fuller Seminary in Pasadena, CA was the school.

But, Billy Graham is massively attacked by a lot of people precisely because of his stance.

Simon, Revelation does belong in the canon, I think, but not as it's popularly interpreted. I'd say there is no bigger divide between academic Christianity and popular Christianity than the interpretation of Revelation. In the academic side it's understood as being within a genre of the time, making a point through expected approaches as found in a number of writings. For those who don't know it as a genre, as many don't, it's a freaky collection of signs and symbols that have to be interpreted just right, and that affects how they view everything.

Hagee isn't really mainstream Evangelical, but he is very popular among a certain group, has a popular television ministry, so I wouldn't say he's fringe at all either.

Trooper York said...

The divide between the Prods and the Catholics was still real big in the '70's and '80's especially if you went into a real Irish Bar. I was dragged to plenty of Noraid fund raisers with various Irish girls and there was always a jar at the end of the bar with a hard man from Belfast giving you the evil eye if you didn't contribute. Those were the days of Bobby Sands and the hunger strikes, it seemed like yesterday.

Verso said...

Here's another YouTube video revealing many more Hagee quotes that are even more outrageous that the ones about the Catholic Church.

Hagee endorses McCain

One thing is quite clear: If Obama said "I'm proud to accept Farrakhan's endorsement," his campaign would be over tomorrow.

Even explicitly condemning Farrakhan wasn't enough for the right-wing media.

But McCain? Pfft! He'll get a free pass. Because he's Saint John McCain of Straight Talk, the Most Honest.

Trooper York said...

I was in the Quiet Man on 45th St one Saturday night for a fundraiser that the girls told me it would be a good thing if I attended. At the time they had two waitresses working named Rosie. There was Irish Rosie and English Rosie. Both of them were very cute and very shapely in a Kristie Alley before Jenny Craig sort of way. Both great girls on their own. Well Irish Rosie was from Belfast and her father and uncles were in town drinking and handling the collection jar. A lot of the regulars came in special on a Saturday night because Rosie's cousin was in prison in the North and on a hunger strike like Sands. But the bar was closed to general public and some serious drinking was going on. There was a knock on the door and who comes strolling in but English Rosie. You see waitresses love to hang at a bar they work at because they drink for free. Either the bartenders gives it to them or the customers buy them drinks for, well you know why. Anyway when Rosie's father heard her Cockney accent he grabbed Irish Rosie and started haranguing her. The next thing I know Irish Rosie goes over and punches English Rosie right in the mouth. It was on. Now you can joke around about women fighting but it ain't so sexy when they are doing it for real. The owner tried to break it up and they broke his nose for him. It was the worst bar fight I ever saw. English Rosie won by the score of four to two. Teeth.

Protestants and Catholics on the West Side of Manhattan in the early '80's.

somefeller said...

John Hagee is a raving bigot and greasy pig of a man. If you spend a few minutes watching his TV show, you'll see that. Anti-Catholicism is just one of his many faults. While I'm not a fan of Bill Donahue, and Donahue isn't one to cast stones regarding religious bigotry, he's right about this one. I guess even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then.

titustutudancearabesque said...

Now I remember this John Hagee. He was on Fresh Air with Terry Gross and said that hurricane katrina was caused by the gays-lovely.

rcocean said...

Verso:

Your link is BS - its not Hagee its just some Jackass talking about Hagee.

titustutudancearabesque said...

OK, I am watching my favorite movie of all time Blue Velvet.

Love the Music-Love Frank.

Simon said...

Revenant said...
"I'm offended by the Christian belief that I'm going to burn in Hell...."

Why, if you don't believe in God and Hell?

Paddy, so far as I can see it defies rational or consistent construction, which makes me suspicious as to whether any interpretation is possibly valid. Where the original meaning can't be discerned, we're really left adrift unless tradition is considered to govern, and I think that in this particular case, even the Church's traditions - the Catholic church's traditions, that is - are helpful.

Verso said...
"One thing is quite clear: If Obama said 'I'm proud to accept Farrakhan's endorsement,' his campaign would be over tomorrow."

You're quite the optimist! ;)

titustutudancearabesque said...

I was in High School when Blue Velvet came out and I never was the same.

Oh, the firetruck is going by right now and the fireman is waving-dreamy.

Tulips

Small town America.

Everything is perfect....or is it?

Trooper York said...

Bishop John Hughes was the first archbishop of New York and started the work on St. Patrick's Cathedral. He also founded what would become Fordham University. It is well known that he had to lead his Irish parishoners in a street battle to protect their church against the Protestant Know-nothings who wanted to burn it down. The gangs of the West Side joined either for piety or because they liked a fight. It is the inspiration for the scenes in The Gangs of New York. It really happened just not exactly in that way. A lot of the same people were involved in the draft riots of the 1860's but that didn't have such a large religious component although it underlay alot of the violence.

DADvocate said...

At least he didn't use the H-word. You know, that word between Barak and Obama.

madawaskan said...

There is this from Obama in the recent past-

Supplied by Althouse commenter Paul Collachi-

Obama on Farrakhan in response to questions from Jewish Community members:

see http://blog.washingtonpost.com/
the-trail/2008/02/26/
obamas_ohio_grilling.html

"I am member of the Unity Church of Christ, Trinity United Church of Christ, been there for 20 years. And although this is an improvement because you don't think I am Muslim, which is the other... [laughter] You know, so, slowly we are progressing here. It is a very conventional African American church. If you go to, if you were there at the church, you would be hearing gospel music and people preaching about Jesus. It is very conventional in that sense.

It is true that my pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who will be retiring this month, is somebody who on occasion can say controversial things. Most of them, by the way, are controversial directed at the African American community and calling on them [to] start reading books and turn off the TV set and engage in self-help. And he is very active in prison ministries and so forth. It is also true that he comes out of the '60s -- he is an older man. That is where he cut his teeth. That he has historically been interested in the African roots of the African American experience.

He was very active in the South Africa divestment movement, and you will recall that there was a tension that arose between the African American and the Jewish communities during that period when we were dealing with apartheid in South Africa, because Israel and South Africa had a relationship at that time. And that cause -- that was a source of tension. So there have been a couple of occasions where he made comments with relation, rooted in that. Not necessarily ones that I share. But that is the context within which he has made those comments.

He does not have a close relationship with Louis Farrakhan. Louis Farrakhan is a resident of Chicago, and as a consequence he has been active in a range of community activities, particularly around ex-offenders and dealing with them. I have been a consistent, before I go any further, a consistent denunciator of Louis Farrakhan, nobody challenges that. And what is true is that, recently this is probably, I guess last year. An award was given to Farrakhan for his work on behalf of ex-offenders completely unrelated to his controversial statements. And I believe that was a mistake and showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community, and I said so. But I have never heard an anti-Semitic [remark] made inside of our church. I have never heard anything that would suggest anti-Semitism on part of the pastor.

He is like an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with. And I suspect there are some of the people in this room who have heard relatives say some things that they don't agree with. Including, on occasion, directed at African Americans that maybe a possibility that's just -- I am not suggesting that's definitive. So the point I make is this, that I understand the concerns and the sensitivities, and one of my goals constantly in my public career has been to try to bridge what was a historically powerful bond between the African American and Jewish communities that has been frayed in recent years. For a whole variety of reasons. I think that I have served as an effective bridge, and that's the reason I have overwhelming support among the Jewish community that knows me best, which is the Jewish community in Chicago . And I think that anybody who has friends among the Jewish community in Chicago should check out those credentials.

But I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify those concerns. And as I said, that last point I would make is that you know my pastor is going to be retiring over the next month. So my general view, and the reason that I raise this, this is always a sensitive point, what you don't want to do is distance yourself or kick somebody away, because you are now running for president and you are worried about perceptions, particularly when someone is basically winding down their life and their career."


Now what was weird about this response was the section where Obama says-

But I have never heard an anti-Semitic [remark] made inside of our church.

Which immediately made me wonder what he might hear outside of their church.

Which leads to Jesse Jackson one of Obama's spokespersons on the cable networks who has been sent around to defend Obama.

Here is his history with Farakhan-

Jesse Jackson's 'Hymietown' Remark – 1984

Rev. Jesse Jackson referred to Jews as "Hymies" and to New York City as "Hymietown" in January 1984 during a conversation with a black Washington Post reporter, Milton Coleman. Jackson had assumed the references would not be printed because of his racial bond with Coleman, but several weeks later Coleman permitted the slurs to be included far down in an article by another Post reporter on Jackson's rocky relations with American Jews.

A storm of protest erupted, and Jackson at first denied the remarks, then accused Jews of conspiring to defeat him. The Nation of Islam's radical leader Louis Farrakhan, an aggressive anti-Semite and old Jackson ally, made a difficult situation worse by threatening Coleman in a radio broadcast and issuing a public warning to Jews, made in Jackson's presence: "If you harm this brother [Jackson], it will be the last one you harm."

Finally, Jackson doused the fires in late February with an emotional speech admitting guilt and seeking atonement before national Jewish leaders in a Manchester, New Hampshire synagogue. Yet Jackson refused to denounce Farrakhan, and lingering, deeply rooted suspicions have led to an enduring split between Jackson and many Jews. The frenzy also heightened tensions between Jackson and the mostly white establishment press.


Washington Post

So I think the difference here may be that Obama is more familiar with Farakhan.

I know who Farakhan is-I've never before heard of Hagee.

I don't think McCain has a spokesperson with a known history of getting into trouble with Hagee as his often used spoesperson on the news networks.

Also -if McCain claims a lack of familiarity with a zealot in Texas-it's going to be more believable than say one in Arizona.

Having said all of that McCain needs to divorce himself from this before the Texas primary and hopefully with less prodding.

Verso said...

The angry RCOCEAN spit, Your link is BS - its not Hagee

LOL, thanks for letting me know! I thought that guy was Hagee! Talking about himself in the 3rd person!

Blake said...

You guys don't understand.

McCain wants to win!

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

That 1980 politics of dirt sling don work in the age of the text message. He better watch out, it will be like running into a brick wall

Impacted Wisdom Truth said...

By the way, Ann, his last name is Hagee, not Hague; your post says "Hague in action."

And what, exactly, is "Anti-Catholic" in the video?

Mark Daniels said...

Not only has McCain been hanging out with Hagee, a real disgusting character. He was also riding around the other day, he rode on his bus in Cincinnati with another religious huckster, Rod Parsley, senior pastor of a huge neo-Pentecostal church in the Columbus area. This guy thinks that God is a Republican, a far right, neoconservative Republican. He also thinks that you should send him some money. Can you say "false prophet"? (Or is that "false profit"?)

Mark Daniels

Beth said...

Hagee believes Hurricane Katrina was God's judgment on New Orleans for allowing fags and dykes to parade. He's a fucking lunatic. McCain is dead to me. Forever. Fuck him.

At least I can stop paying attention to this election now. It was getting boring anyway.

(Language! I know. But the loonier the religious nutcase, the more I want to curse.)

Fletch said...

Dadvocate-

At least he didn't use the H-word. You know, that word between Barak and Obama.

That's the "irony"-- "middle-names" are funny like that!

I can only think of one President in my parent's lifetime whose "middle name" wasn't 'well known'--
(G. Walker Bush, W. Jefferson Clinton, G. Herbert Walker Bush, R. Wilson Reagan, J. Earl Carter, G. R* Ford, R. Milhouse Nixon, L. Baines Johnson, J. Fitzgerald Kennedy, D. David Eisenhower, H. S. Truman, F. Delano Roosevelt...)


Let's look at the opponents--

1)Everyone surely knows the "F" in John F. Kerry?

2)Albert A. Gore Jr.?

3)Bob J. Dole?

4)H. Ross Perot?

5)Michael S. Dukakis?

6)Walter F. Mondale?

7)Edward M. Kennedy?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

==============================

1)Forbes
2)Arnold
3)Joseph
4)Henry
5)Stanley
6)Frederick
7)Moore

*Gerald Rudolph! Ford...

Revenant said...

"I'm offended by the Christian belief that I'm going to burn in Hell...."

Why, if you don't believe in God and Hell?

The idea that I deserve to be punished for my beliefs is annoying even if there's no chance of the punishment ever happening. I imagine black people are similarly annoyed by the idea that they are inherently morally inferior to whites, even if there isn't an iota of truth to it.

Revenant said...

This guy thinks that God is a Republican, a far right, neoconservative Republican.

Saying "far right neoconservative Republican" is like saying "far left member of the Democratic Leadership Council". It doesn't make much sense.

The far right is isolationist and deeply hostile to the nation-building that neoconservatives support.

Fletch said...

Dadvocate-

At least he didn't use the H-word. You know, that word between Barak and Obama.

That's the "irony"-- "middle-names" are funny like that!

I can only think of one President in my parent's lifetime whose "middle name" wasn't 'well known'--
(G. Walker Bush, W. Jefferson Clinton, G. Herbert Walker Bush, R. Wilson Reagan, J. Earl Carter, G. R* Ford, R. Milhouse Nixon, L. Baines Johnson, J. Fitzgerald Kennedy, D. David Eisenhower, H. S. Truman, F. Delano Roosevelt...)


Let's look at the opponents--

1)Everyone surely knows the "F" in John F. Kerry?

2)Albert A. Gore Jr.?

3)Bob J. Dole?

4)H. Ross Perot?

5)Michael S. Dukakis?

6)Walter F. Mondale?

7)Edward M. Kennedy?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

==============================

1)Forbes
2)Arnold
3)Joseph
4)Henry
5)Stanley
6)Frederick
7)Moore

*Gerald Rudolph! Ford...

LoafingOaf said...

Obama denounces and rejects extremist whack-job bigots who endorse him. McCain enthusiastically seeks, and proudly embraces, endorsements from extremisyt whack-job bigots.

I already know I'm voting for Obama vs. Hillary in the March 4th Ohio primary. With this, I'm now more likely to vote for Obama in the general election, too.

dave in boca said...

McCain's erratic headstrong temperament again demonstrates his lack of political pitch. He is tone-deaf and stuck on stupid if he doesn't do the quick turnaround that Obama did on Farrakhan. This Hagee bigot is an anti-Semitic Papist-hating whack-job. Now I'm having buyer's remorse only a week after reluctantly buying into McCain after the NYT smear.

Why is McCain not very fast on his feet? Is he even more a cronyist and special-interest whore than world-champ Hillary?

Obama is starting to look better by default.

Cedarford said...

The more worrisome aspect of Hagee is that he is a Christian Zionist who is nurtured by Jewish neocons and by close supporters in the Israeli gov't including Netanyahu.

Hagee believes in unconditional American support of Likud policy because, in his opinion, Israel is the only modern nation created by the express will of God.

A self-described "complete believer in the triumph of Zionism", Hagee supports a joint US-Israel war against Iran as "soon as possible", US recognition of Jerusalem as the capital and sole right of Jews, complete ethnic transfer of all Palestinians inside Israel and on the West Bank "back to where the Arabs came from".

Hagee is a Dispensentialist who believes that the purpose of Israel is mainly to save all Christians because the gathering of all Jews there and the rise of the AntiChrist will trigger the Apocalypse and Jesus's Return to save all evangelical souls. 95% of humanity is out of luck - mainstream Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Pentacostalists, Hindis, atheists, Mormon heretics all burn in hell.

But disagreeing with other Dispensentialists in his "Two Covenent" theory that since Jews are Gods special people, wiser and more noble, they still have God's special protection under the covenent they really didn't break when they ordered Christ's execution and got their lobby to the Romans to agree. Because Christ's execution by the High Sanhedrin was doing Gods bidding, Hagee (with many Fundies disagreeing with him) believes Jews go straight to heaven without converting and accepting Christ due to the Covenent never being broken and no curse ever put on the Jews by God..

This is a guy who broadcasts to 8 international TV networks, 151 independent TV stations and 82 radio stations from his 50,000 ft2 "Outreach" studio while making a million and a half in compensation, while immediate family gets another 300K for their "services." He gets VIP Plus treatment when he does his annual visits to Israel on par with what propagandized US Senators get, including Head of State Meetings.

Hagee heads Christians United For Israel. His kickoff National Gathering for CUFI.ORG in summer of 2007 was attended by Tom Delay (a close friend and strong backer), the head of the RNC, Ken Mehlman, Sam Brownback, John McCain, and the Israeli deputy Ambassador. He has access to the White House and has lobbyied there before about widening the War to Iran to "save Israel".

In Texas, Hagee has contacts with AF Fundie generals at bases near his megachurch.

IMO, conclusions:

1. The anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon stuff is small potatos compared to his Zionist activities.

2. He is immensely more powerful and connected than Louis Farrakan, or Obama's preacher, is.

3. McCain was in his orbit long before this endorsement, shares his "Bomb Iran" views. McCain has some explaining to do about Hagee and his clout with Republicans in the White House and Congress through his political mentor Tom Delay - plus Brownback, Mehlman, Lieberman, and McCain.

4. The extent to which Jewish Zionists have manipulated the guy to in turn influence McCain and his need for donor bucks. What Hagees ties are with AIPAC and PM to be Netanyahu, where McCain stands on this.

5. Fundie US Military personnel ties to Hagee in Texas.

6. Hagee's position that Israel, not America, deserves each American's unconditional support even over America (even if Israel's leaders position conflict with US interests and endangers US citizens) raises loyalty issues.

Imagine if Obama appeared on stage with a Mullah endorsing him who was later found to have said American Muslims owe their highest loyalty to foreign Muslim leaders because they have the direct blessings of Allah that America lacks!

7. Tom Delay was a snake. Snakes tend to nest together.

hdhouse said...

Simon said...
(I shall be crucified for that last remark, so emphasize that the Gore comparison was just a joke.)"


ahhhh Simon, mind holding that hand still so I can nail in the third stake?

Pogo said...

I never realized I have been dancing with the Whore of Babylon all of these years. She ain't as purty as the dish on Hagee's wall, though.

Catholics do in fact have alot to answer for in both their remote and recent past. It's easy to see the origins of this sort of bigotry. My response to Hagee is "Meh."

Hagee reminds me of those JT Chick comics, which describe us Catlikkers in the same way. Interesting in a funhouse sorta way, and as ultimately pointless.

But McCain?
What an idiot.
For US President, my choices are Dumb, or Dumber?

MadisonMan said...

fletch, that's very interesting about the middle names, especially given that Ford was never elected! It really seems that to be elected, your middle name has to be well known.

Look for the John Sidney McCain ads to start running. Maybe Swoosie Kurtz can be in them.

TROBlog said...

I'm Catholic. This doesn't bother me - anymore than when my mother-in-law, a Southern Baptist, says Catholics worship statues. God Bless her, she makes a mean banana pudding.

I will vote for McCain because I know he doesn't believe that, and frankly considering the alternatives, I would vote for him even if he did believe it.

So, since we are openly dissing McCain for this nutty Christian connection can we now openly dis Obama for all his Muslim issues? Middle name? Farrakhan endorsement? Crazy almost Nation of Islam minister of his church? Muslim garb?

Yeah, I know it's being reported but it's being reported in a "this isn't a real issue and you must be a bigot to be talking about it at all" kind of way.

Well, if we can talk about Hagee and his connection to McCain without being bigots can we now talk about Obama's Muslim issues without being bigots too?

Anti-Catholicism is ultimately the last acceptable prejudice.

I thought the last acceptable prejudices were hatred of fat people and clowns. And, heaven forbid, a fat clown.

Paddy O. said...

Paddy, so far as I can see it defies rational or consistent construction, which makes me suspicious as to whether any interpretation is possibly valid

Comparing it to other apocalyptic literature of the era, however, makes it entirely consistent. We don't have that genre anymore, however, so look at it more literally. But it's following the conventions of the genre just like, say, Star Wars follows the conventions of a science fiction epic.

Books like 1 Enoch or others are really very, very similar and are a way of expressing a prophetic message in an almost code language. Lose the community in which such codes are understood and it becomes a mystery. Academics who understand the era, genre, and intent can actually get a pretty solid understanding of the book... though not with the pretty charts.

Saying "far right neoconservative Republican" is like saying "far left member of the Democratic Leadership Council". It doesn't make much sense.

Neither does Rod Parsley. It's not a consistent political philosophy, it's a mish-mash of all kinds of influences and motives. "Far right" is definitely appropriate in terms of their social conservatism.

I think McCain is banking on the fact that outside the conservative Christian circles most folks don't know who John Hagee or Rod Parsley are. Honestly, I would be really surprised if this is made in to a lasting issue for that reason.

The Democrats aren't likely to attack McCain over Hagee, because it makes too big a sound-bite to have to explain who the guy is and then why it's a problem.

madawaskan said...

What's laugh outloud funny is Glenn Greenwald-who the hell is he trying to kid?

All of a sudden he cares what William Donohue of the Catholic League thinks?

Seriously for all you Non-Catholics out there-there is not an officially sanctioned political agent of the US Catholic Church.

Greenwald if this was just limited to Catholic hating-would be right there with Hagee, or maybe his sock would be.

What the hell this is actually diminishing anti-semitism isn't it?

If being anti-Catholic is on par with being anti-semitic-than you have really lost your way.

Jay Rosen said...

"It's just not like that for me. I'm not political the way those other bloggers are political."

I understand completely what you mean. Keep at it.

Jay Rosen (www.pressthink.org)

Hoosier Daddy said...

I'm guessing this stuff must be big in the bible belt or something. We generally don't get this kind of quality programming here in Hoosierland. Well sometimes at 2am you can find the tele-preachers in bad liesure suits trying to hawk 'prayer rags' for $10. And what is it with their wives and the 1965 beehive hairdos and 20lbs of Estee Lauder eyeliner?

I guess I live a sheltered life as I never heard of this guy or Bill Donahue.

Fletch said...

Madman-

It really seems that to be elected, your middle name has to be well known.

I think its actually the other direction--- your "middle name" really gets "well-known" after your election.

Unless you were a "Gerry Rudolph"... :o)


---see also Thomas E.(?) Dewey and Adlai E.(?) Stevenson---

(Wiki- says Edmund and Ewing, respectively...)

MadisonMan said...

I guess I live a sheltered life as I never heard of this guy or Bill Donahue.

Have you only heard of Louis Farrakhan because he's from Chicago, or is there some other reason?

TROBlog said...

I'm guessing this stuff must be big in the bible belt or something. We generally don't get this kind of quality programming here in Hoosierland. Well sometimes at 2am you can find the tele-preachers in bad liesure suits trying to hawk 'prayer rags' for $10. And what is it with their wives and the 1965 beehive hairdos and 20lbs of Estee Lauder eyeliner?

It's not that big down here in the bible-belt either. I occasionally see Hagee on TV, but like you said it is when I can't sleep at 2 am or some other un-godly hour.

TROBlog said...

Have you only heard of Louis Farrakhan because he's from Chicago, or is there some other reason?

Farrakhan is big news. The Nation of Islam is big news. And maybe the movie Malcom X helped that movement to be known nationally?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Have you only heard of Louis Farrakhan because he's from Chicago, or is there some other reason?

Well I know of Louie cause his minions are generally hawking their newspapers and what not at the intersection of 38th and Meridian here in Indy. Then he did that Billion Man march thing a few years back too which made big news. I think he made some disparaging remarks about Michael Jackson once too that I think upset the Gloved One.

I've heard of the Reverend Moon too but I don't think he's endorsed anyone. I also heard of Benny Hinn too. Other than that, I'm kinda in the dark on the evangelical celeb list.

pathickey said...

This goofball Hagee is cut from the very same cloth as members of the ACLU - they have an intense Old Timey hatred of American Catholics.

McCain is a great friend to Catholics. I know - I'm a south side Chicago Mick Catholic and McCain is actively helping Catholics and all parents who want school choice. That is the Change America Needs Most - Choice in where we can send our kids.

Having a nut-job on stage goes with being a public figure - occupational hazzard.

Let's stay on task. McCain is the only candidate for School Choice.

Yes, we Can!
http://hickeysite.blogspot.com/2008/02/john-mccain-real-change-means-real.html

rcocean said...

I just want to defend old time protestants. They never hated Catholics, just the Irish.

And we can all understand that POV.

Trooper York said...

Olson Johnson: All right, we'll give some land to the niggers and the chinks, but we DON'T WANT THE IRISH.
(Blazing Saddles, 1974)

MadisonMan said...

Other than that, I'm kinda in the dark on the evangelical celeb list.

Yes, so am I. And I wonder why press accounts of Hagee types aren't common. Their viewpoints are on a par objectionable-wise as Farrakhan viewpoints. But I guess Hagee et al. operate at a less newsworthy level, or they're not blatant media whores.

MadisonMan said...

Trooper, or Methodists

Doug said...

So TROblog sees John McCain taking the stage with an avowed anti-Catholic but still feels confident shrugging his shoulders and says "he doesn't believe that." But when Barack Obama says he both "denounces" and "rejects" the bigoted statements of Louis Farrakhan -- in a nationally televised debate, no less -- TROblog takes that as his cue to start rehashing Obama's "Muslim issues." I guess on some planet that might all make sense, just not this one.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Their viewpoints are on a par objectionable-wise as Farrakhan viewpoints. But I guess Hagee et al. operate at a less newsworthy level, or they're not blatant media whores.

Well the main difference is that Farrakhan is a racist this guy simply has a hard one for Catholics. I think calling into question the tenants of a particular religion aren't quite on par with denouncing someone based upon thier race or ethnicity or claiming ethnic superiority. His comments are probably objectionable only to Catholics. I doubt Muslims, Hindus or atheists see it in the same vein, if they care at all.

I'm RC myself and know a lot of people have issues with the RC Church and the Pope and it really doesn't bother me. As long as you aren't trying to blow me up, you can refer to me as an apostate all day long. I'm also Polish so having thick skin is almost built in my DNA.

But you did hit it on the head in terms of national media attention. Fallwell made national headlines with his Tinky Winky is a homo comment whereas this guy appears to me more small fry and no one really cares what he says.

MadisonMan said...

no one really cares what he says.

I wouldn't go that far! Witness this comment thread.

I'm (converted to) RC myself, and if I meet people who tell me they have issues with the Pope, I usually agree! Old White Men should retire -- they shouldn't lead multinational corporations.

TROBlog said...

So TROblog sees John McCain taking the stage with an avowed anti-Catholic but still feels confident shrugging his shoulders and says "he doesn't believe that." But when Barack Obama says he both "denounces" and "rejects" the bigoted statements of Louis Farrakhan -- in a nationally televised debate, no less -- TROblog takes that as his cue to start rehashing Obama's "Muslim issues." I guess on some planet that might all make sense, just not this one.

Man, you stretched my intent and meaning there longer than they stretch taffy in Gatlinburg, TN.

I don't believe McCain is anti-Catholic. I feel confident in saying so - yes.

And maybe I feel confident in saying that Obama doesn't believe what Farrakhan says. Maybe I don't.

The difference is Obama is a new entity to everyone and really hasn't been examined closely yet. And my guess if he has his way he won't be - that's how he has won so far.

McCain - he's old news - every one knows him and what he is for and against - good or bad.

As to me rehashing Obama's Muslim issues, well, I don't think they have really been hashed at all yet.

The question is should they be.

Doug said...

Well, here's something that might bring me back from that Gatlinburg taffy shop, TRO: What do you mean when you refer to Obama's "Muslim issues"? He's not a Muslim, he's explicitly rejected Louis Farrakhan's teachings, he didn't get sworn into office on the Koran, so I don't know what you mean by that term.

On the other hand, I now have a very good idea what John McCain's "Catholic issues" are.

SGT Ted said...

So, when Bill Donahue criticizes leftwingers or their pet causes, he's a fringe kook. But when he criticizes a rightwinger, He's the voice of moderation and reason. Kooks calling others kooks.

I've been a conservative Repub my entire adult life and I've never heard of this Hagee fellow.

I would attribute this more to McCains tonedeafness IRT religion in general. I suppose he might be Mau Mau'ed enough by the DNC/MSM to repudiate Hagee. We'll see.

TROBlog said...

What do you mean when you refer to Obama's "Muslim issues"? He's not a Muslim, he's explicitly rejected Louis Farrakhan's teachings, he didn't get sworn into office on the Koran, so I don't know what you mean by that term.

You keep asking me to define what I have already defined.

Yes, he did give a so-so rejection of Farrakhan, but his own minister preaches the same stuff. And what about his Weathermen connections in the past? Are they important?

My point is not whether these things are true or not or to what extent, but can they be discussed at all without being accused of being a bigot?

To me, if the left is going to explore McCain's anti-Catholic bias based on this then I feel it opens up all sorts of avenues into Obama that he might wish to leave closed. As an aside, I find it amusing that the left is pretending to care that McCain is anti-Catholic at all.

BTW, the Catholic League does not speak for the vast majority of Catholics. Hell, half of us have probably never even heard of them.

Finally, let me say that I believe there is plenty of ammo to attack Obama on issues without ever resorting to this stuff. The problem is the left won't let it be that way.

Doug said...

As an aside, I find it amusing that the left is pretending to care that McCain is anti-Catholic at all.

Well, TRO, I'm a practicing Catholic, so by all means, feel free to pass judgment on the sincerity of my frustration over this issue.

I don't know how you quantify Obama's rejection of Farrakhan as "so-so" -- what do you want him to do? Banish Farrakhan from the U.S.? Rip his picture in half on "Saturday Night Live" while shouting "Fight the real enemy"? -- but in any case, the degree of the denunciation is irrelevant, as Obama has rejected Farrakhan while McCain has embraced Hagee. Therefore it is ridiculous to imply that the two connections are still deserving of the same scrutiny.

paul a'barge said...

I suppose he might be Mau Mau'ed enough by the DNC/MSM to repudiate Hagee. We'll see

The guy is running a campaign for the US Presidency. Give him time, he'll dump this mutt like a hot poker.

My guess is that this mutt wasn't vetted by the campaign, who probably didn't know the details about this mutt's religious nuttery. As soon as this bubbles up, McCain will dump this mutt like the garbage he is.

Revenant said...

"Far right" is definitely appropriate in terms of their social conservatism.

Except that neoconservatism doesn't have anything to do with social issues. A person can be a neoconservative while favoring gay marriage and legal abortion. Neoconservatism is about American's role on the world stage and American national security, and nothing more -- and it directly opposes the far right on those issues.

TROBlog said...

Well, TRO, I'm a practicing Catholic, so by all means, feel free to pass judgment on the sincerity of my frustration over this issue.

I don't know how you quantify Obama's rejection of Farrakhan as "so-so" -- what do you want him to do? Banish Farrakhan from the U.S.? Rip his picture in half on "Saturday Night Live" while shouting "Fight the real enemy"? -- but in any case, the degree of the denunciation is irrelevant, as Obama has rejected Farrakhan while McCain has embraced Hagee. Therefore it is ridiculous to imply that the two connections are still deserving of the same scrutiny.


You're right, the two connections don't deserve the same scrutiny. Catholics are hardly an oppressed group in this country and McCain getting the endorsement of a nut like Haggee is not at all important to the welfare of the Church and its flock.

I don't doubt your sincerity; I do wonder at the level of your outrage. Aside from some legitimate criticism over our pedophilic priests and the Church's inability/unwillingness to deal with them and the annual Folsom Street Fair I don't see any concerted attack on Catholics here.

If you don't want to vote for McCain because he doesn't like Catholics, fine by me. But allow me to look at more than that one issue when I decide if he deserves my vote.

And also allow me to consider everything about Obama - from his "Muslim issues" to his past association with terrorists to his lack of any specific policy or plan for the future aside from hope and change in deciding if he deserves my vote.

ike singer said...

Hagee hates Mormons too. Just sayin'.

Argent Paladin said...

I thought this before I saw this item, but now I really think McCain should pick a Catholic running mate.
The Catholic electorate is often overlooked because it is usually holds views identical to the overall electorate. The one exception is when one of their own is running. In a close election, especially against Obama, someone like Mel Martinez, Senator from Florida, would secure Florida, probably swing to the Republican side Catholicish Pennsylvania and Wisconsin (Martinez was president of Catholic Charities in Orlando) and drive a lot of Hispanics to the R side (lots of people don't decide till they get to the ballot box, and when they see McCain/Martinez they may vote for one of their own. I know it is cynical, substanceless, etc but the VP isn't important of itself, only as a stepping stone for the presidency.

JBlog said...

Thirty percent of those who voted Republican in the 2004 presidential election self-identified as evangelical Christians.

That's one heck of a voting block.

You may not always like them -- particularly minority extremists such as John Hagee -- but the Republicans cannot win an election without them.

Wheeler's said...

rawr!
just wait until the MSM finds out Hagee is a leftbehinder and a dispensationalist.

bill said...

Mr. Hagee, and other fundamentalists, should take a look at catholicfundamentalism.com
It shows a new way to bring both Catholics and Fundamentalists together.
Unfortunately for hateful extremists, they come together under a Catholic umbrella.
Mr. Hagee didn't mention that the Inquisition killed fewer people than die in children's bicycle accidents every year.

jjv said...

Protestants of a certain stripe have always accused the Church of being "the Whore of Babylon." This nation was founded by a whole group of people who thought this and went to Massachusetts to live out that belief more easily. One can expect Protestantism to retain many of these beliefs. So what? I think its crazy and for some guy from a splinter church to call Rome a "cult" is hilarious.

I bet Hagee doesn't want the state to expel Catholic services from adoption the way Massachusetts does and Obama supports. I bet Hagee doesn't want to exclude Catholic voices from the abortion debate as many on the Left do. The actual policies of Obama and Hillary are far more anti-Catholic than anything Hagee proposes but because he speaks in that accent and retains the ancient beliefs of the Protestants about Catholicism his support is anaethma? Are you sure Obama's pastor has not said anything similiar about Catholicism? The Church Eternal is what she claims to be or Hagee (and perhaps Dawkins) are correct. There is no other choice. I think she is what she claims to be. But I don't blame anyone who does not persecute her from believing and preaching otherwise.

jpr9954 said...

I'm not sure why McCain appeared with Hagee. However, don't you think it is rather unreasonable to assume that McCain himself is an anti-Catholic bigot when he himself sent his daughter Meghan and sons Jack and Jimmy to CATHOLIC high schools in Phoenix? Meghan is a graduate of Xavier High and Jack and Jimmy are graduates of Brophy College Prep - a Jesuit H.S. for Christ's sake!

http://www.johnmccain.com//About/McCainChildren.htm

http://www.xcp.org/www2/about_xavier.html

http://www.brophyprep.org/

Ann Althouse said...

Who said anything about McCain personally being an anti-Catholic bigot? He simply seems to be using the support of this man for political advantage. I don't think Obama is an anti-Semite for not telling Farrakhan no, I don't want any help from you. They are politicians using what is useful to them.

BoBo said...

As a Catholic myself, I've always felt that Hagee guy was just a creep. I have to agree with you, Ann (whether you intended it or not) McCain's appearance with this guy was just plain disgusting!!!

PK said...

I wonder how many of your readers know who Hagee is? I don't. I've seen him on TV and passed him right by. I'll bet the same is true for most of your readers. I am a Protestant though. Not an evangelical (whatever that means)but still a protestant. Many of us believe the Catholic Church is in fact the anti-Christ. Not the people or all of them at least but the Church. Personally I'm not sure and too unknowledgeable of prophecy to make that claim. However your post proves nothing except what many (most?)Protestants believe Why post it? Red meat for your readers. Probably. At the expense of Protestants. Exactly what you seem to hate Hagee for. At least Catholics stopped buring us at the stake.
Also, is the Protestant belief anti-Catholic in your view? If so then quite a few of your fellow Americans all around you would be considered as such. It seems that way from your post. What of the the Catholic belief? Redemption through the Mass, confession and the 'holy father' (Sorry I cannot capitalize that. To me it's just not right.) All others what? Hell? Using the same criteria as what you posted that seems rather anti-Protestant to me.
One more thing. I've read many of the posts here. You might want to curtail some of the anti-Protestantism going on. You probably can't spot it though.

doctorfixit said...

McCain is from the old-guard Rockefeller wing of the Republican party, which has always been anti-Catholic. Reagan brought Catholics into the Republican party, briefly, but that's over. McCain is soft on abortion, supports embryonic stem cell research. McCain wants the born-again vote, which is virulently anti-Catholic. Catholics don't have anywhere to go in this election.

Revenant said...

McCain is soft on abortion

How the heck is McCain "soft on abortion"?

Joel said...

The response to me seems a little overboard. But that's me. First as best I can tell there's no real indication at least from what's posted here that this particular person is "Anti-Catholic." None that I can tell.

There is of course a HUGE difference in my mind as to being "Anti-Catholic" and "Anti-Catholic Church." And why shouldn't a preacher be from a fundamentalist bent be anti-catholic church. If your interpretation is that the Roman Catholic church is leading souls astray should the response be just as the individual proposes. But no individual prejudice is suggested.

This is not really any different than suggesting that Mormons or even Baptists are some kind of cult. Well guess what lots of Catholics are very "Anti-Protestant Church." But I think it'd be dangerous to say that individual catholics are "Anti-Protestant." Stating that Protestants are schismatic and the like. But that's what the discussion about religion is about. Huge difference in my mind. And something that really does not enter the realm of politics.

I may believe that the Mormon, Catholic, or some protestant denomination is leading their adherents down the road to eternal damnation by blinding them to the truth, but I can still believe they make a great neighbor and agree with them politically and support someone from that denomination or church.

Wheeler's said...

How the heck is McCain "soft on abortion"?

he is percieved that way cuz of 2 votes supporting fed fundage for ESCR.
mccain is courting the theocons who have pretty much signaled their nonsupport with Huckabee voting.
they are 1/3 of the republican party, selfidentified as evangelicals.
the repubs will need every vote of the rove coalition to beat the dem candidate in november.

vader said...

"Anti-Catholicism is ultimately the last acceptable prejudice."

I dunno, Sydney. Anti-Mormonism seems to get a pass, too. And even old-fashioned anti-Semitism seems to be coming back into fashion.