January 7, 2008

"I have so many opportunities from this country. I just don't want to see us fall backwards, you know?"

Says Hillary Clinton, in her "teary" statement. It's getting a lot of play, so I'm linking in case you want to talk about it. Is it a phony effort to get your sympathy? (Seems like a bad move.) Is she just really tired? Or was it really something about about the questioner's expression of sympathy — how do you do it? — that brought out a truly vulnerable side? I don't know. But it seems a little like the feminine gesture she made at the debate when she said the her feelings were hurt. I think someone — an excellent actress? — is coaching her in how to display womanly emotion.

But she has plenty to get emotional about. Did you see this?
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that Hillary Clinton’s national polling lead has collapsed. Before the Iowa caucuses, Clinton held a seventeen-point lead over Barack Obama. Today, that lead is down to four percentage points in a survey with a four-point margin of sampling error.
That's the national poll.

UPDATE: Hillary responds.

AND: Here's the original video:



MORE: I just listened to Rush Limbaugh's treatment of this incident. He made much of the fact that there are no visible tears. There's the teary voice, but no real tears.
Folks, this is so calculated, this is no different than the makeup... This is the sympathy play! This is the gender card again! I'm going to tell you exactly what this is. This is the latest version of invading my space. This is a reenactment with tears of the Rick Lazio moment, ladies and gentlemen. Should a man get away with bringing Mrs. Clinton to tears? Should a man, be it me, be it Obama, should a man get away with bringing Mrs. Clinton to tears?... This is purely calculated. This is Bill Clinton coaching her, "Look, don't bite your lower lip like I do, they'll accuse you of copying me, do some fake tears out there, show 'em you really care."

173 comments:

dmfoiemjsof said...

Typical woman, starts crying when things get rough.

TROBlog said...

The Anchoress predicted it a few days ago:

What I dread most in this political season is the “genuine” moment - and it is coming, soon, sometime between today and tomorrow, or tomorrow and New Hampshire - when Mrs. Clinton, in her ongoing effort to turn herself into whatever the polls says she must be, cries in public. It’s going to be genuinely ghastly.

http://theanchoressonline.com/2008/01/02/shameless-hill-shill-on-nbc/

Doyle said...

I think someone — an excellent actress? — is coaching her in how to display womanly emotion.

I think someone - an awful blogger? - is coaching you on how to write nauseating pablum.

vnjagvet said...

Doyle, what do you think Hillary! is doing here? Exhibiting strong leadership skills?

Mortimer Brezny said...

It is a phony effort to get your sympathy? (Seems like a bad move.)

Yes.

1. It cuts into Obama's national exposure as the new front-runner. He had a GMA interview out today.

2. It is an attempt to draw out sexists to attack a woman for crying, which in turn should shore up her natural base, women. (This didn't work before, but hey.)

3. It is guaranteed to get airplay, so she can counter all her negatives in prime time (not human enough, cold, distant, everything she says is poll-tested), while stealing Edwards' "it's personal for me" line and slipping in her anti-Obama mantra "some of us aren't ready to lead".

They don't have any other moves left, but this will stall the negative news cycle prior to NH. It gives her breathing room, perhaps enables her to place second instead of third, assuming it has some effect.

SteveWe said...

This is sad. But she is really an amateur in politics. Being at her husband's side is not a qualification be it in Arkansas or DC. She is in over her head and it is really starting to show. What executive experience has she ever had? Pushing papers across a legal desk is not executive experience. The people of NY gave her a walk-on office as senator; she had no real opposition and therefore no trial before an electorate. She will go down below the ripples with few bubbles. The inEVITAble candidate has hit the wall from the flag.

Middle Class Guy said...

Doyle said
I think someone - an awful blogger? - is coaching you on how to write nauseating pablum.


Not only is Hillary getting coached, she will probably win the Academy award for the best campaign. BTW, notice the new look? She looks so much younger. Does she have a Hollywood make up artist working on her?

Hillary is the Titanic of the Democratic Party. Maybe Leonardo Di Caprio can play her in the movie.

Donald Douglas said...

Whatever the background, this is the wrong emotion to display for someone trumpeting their readiness for "day one."

Middle Class Guy said...

What is so sad about it? Shed no tears for Hillary. She will make out like a bandit. There will be another multi-million dollar book deal in the offing.

Hillary is all about the money. Her whole life revolved around making a buck, while Bill frittered away in Arkansas.

Hillary wins either way.

AJ Lynch said...

Count me among the 50% plus who view her as negative but even I have some sympathy for her.

Think about how crappy her personal life has been recognizing she traded marital happiness for a chance at the prezidency. Now she is even losing that.

Doesn't mean I will vote for her though.

Doyle said...

She's not getting the nomination, AJ, so unless you're voting in a Democratic primary you wouldn't have the chance to vote for her.

vnjagvet said...

Question:

Will this have the same play as it did when Ed Muskie had his emotional reaction to a scurrilous rumor published by Ed Loeb in 1972?

AJ Lynch said...

Hell I could even feel sympathy for a goof like Doyle if she happened to strike a horrible deal with the devil.

EnigmatiCore said...

What's the problem with her crying? Is she letting us down? Is she supposed to be immortal? Is that all we wanted? Is that too much to ask for? In the end, will she be able to deliver?

Eli Blake said...

Crying won't help her. Remember Edmund Muskie.

I do feel sorry for her, but her problems are of her own making. She forgot that to get the nomination she has to win a Democratic primary, and she kept on veering to the right (I enumerated the votes that mattered to me in the comments on this thread.) So is it any wonder that Democrats, who wouldn't vote for Joe Lieberman four years ago, are now choosing someone other than Hillary? We want someone who is more committed to liberal positions.

AlphaLiberal said...

I think the emotions were genuine and controlled, she spoke well, and for people who actually see it, it's to the good.

For people who read media reports, of course, it will be terrible for her as the pack high schoolers known as our press corps will rip here to shreds over it.

Funny how men can tear up these days, including Bush, and it's okay.

-not a Hillary fan

Middle Class Guy said...

Just saw an interview with HC. she is already back pedaling and trying to justify her breakdown. Typical. I cried, but did not cry, so I cried, but I shed no tears, I cried before I did not cry, then I did not cry.

It was a personal and intimate moment. Yecccccccccccccchhhh.

AJ Lynch said...

"I didn't want to see us fall backwards".

Fall Backwards is a funny way to put it -don't you think?

Usually the nutroots claim the country has become a totalitarian regime under Bushco.

I would have expected Hillary would have used a far more precise description to portray the decline and fall of America in the last 7 years.

So ,maybe it truly was a Kodak moment.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Where was the interview?

Eli Blake said...

vnjagvet:

I see you beat me to the Muskie thing. Good work.

Of course (John 11:35) weeping itself is not a bad thing. The reason for it however has to be scrutinized.

Middle Class Guy said...

Hillary is acting. She has no emotions. Oh, and to her bad deal with Bill- that deal has been bad before the White House.

Hillary is supposed to be smart; an intellectual. She went to top tier schools. She is supposedly an attorney. I guess she did not receive that great of an education. her vocabulary is suffering. She never learned the word DIVORCE. Which she should have done years ago.

EnigmatiCore said...

"She has no emotions."

That's just silly.

"To me, there are three things we all should do every day. We should do this every day of our lives. Number one is laugh. You should laugh every day. Number two is think. You should spend some time in thought. And Number three is, you should have your emotions moved to tears, could be happiness or joy. But think about it. If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special."

Jimmy V.

dbp said...

I can't believe I agree with Alpha, but I don't think Hillary is acting. It is not that I think she has any compunction about manipulation, it is just that 'coaching or not' she just isn't that great of an actress.

My theory is that she has felt that the presidency was hers for so long that, now when it seems to be slipping away, this is hard for her to adjust to.

SteveR said...

I think she has every right to be sad and I am able to be sympathetic.

I am not willing to believe that its ok to show her sadness publicly nor should she expect sympathy to translate to votes.

Yachira said...

She's done.

Time to MoveON (I mean move on...)

paul a'barge said...

I don't think she's acting. I think she's really crying. And that makes me sick to my stomach.

Women have been whining about the so-called "Glass Ceiling" for years. Well, every time one of the "sistahs" breaks out in tears, it really underscores the realization that women are not ready in America to have their hands on the reins of power.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Obama was asked if Clinton should drop out if he wins the Granite State primary tomorrow.

"I would never presume to say anything like that. Look, we've had one caucus, and this would be one primary. And right now Im just focused on tomorrow. We've got to get our voters out," he said.

"It would be such a shame after seeing the great turnout in Iowa, if we weren't working as hard as we could to make sure that story continues. Because I think that's the biggest story out of Iowa: 18 to 30 year olds voting at the same rate as seniors, doubling caucus turnout. That transcends any individual candidate, if that happens we're changing the political landscape," Obama said.


She was trying to change the story to: "It's all about me." Instead of: "Let's make history and engage young and new voters." That is sad enough to make me cry, too.

Brian O'Connell said...

Actually AlphaLiberal, the video looks worse to me than the media descriptions do.

Her slipping in the Ready on Day One talking points into what otherwise appears to be a genuine emotional moment comes off as far too calculated. I mean if it was a real behind-the-facade moment, I'd expect that the sloganeering would be left aside for a minute, but it wasn't.

In the end, I guess we're supposed to believe that she's emotional because she's genuinely concerned about the party nominating someone who's not ready, as opposed to nominating someone who isn't her. I'm not buying that for a second.

spikemeat said...

I think she's got to be pretty bummed out ... the de facto heir to the throne being upstaged by the inexperienced, empty suited black guy.

But she should know that politics aren't about competence, it's about selling the image to the public.

I'm no fan, and agree that she's acting this one up, but I also can appreciate how disappointing it must be to not be validated in voting.

Spikemeat said...

... further to my (rude) comment ... it's not that Presidential to start whining about not getting your own way. Get in there and make your case, speak to what you think the issues are that matter to the Electorate, and "takes yer chances".

I'm also reminded by NH of Howard Dean ... the guy who was to get the nod who melted down, making way for Lurch, who was thought to be done early ...

AJ Lynch said...

Yachira said:

"Time to MoveON".

I lol - how about you Eli?

Original Mike said...

If I'm not elected [sniffle], the country's in the dumpster.

I hope she was acting.

Doyle said...


Women have been whining about the so-called "Glass Ceiling" for years. Well, every time one of the "sistahs" breaks out in tears, it really underscores the realization that women are not ready in America to have their hands on the reins of power.


So it's not a glass ceiling, women are just unfit to lead! Thanks for clearing that up.

Middle Class Guy said...

upstaged by the inexperienced, empty suited black guy.

What is Hillary Clinton? An empty suited white gal.

Meade said...

"Funny how men can tear up these days, including Bush, and it's okay."

There is no shame in tearing up. The shame is that Hillary can only cry for herself. She doesn't feel anyone else's pain; only her own. She is truly pathetic.

Best line in all of this was Obama's sincere and empathetic, "Oh Hillary, you're likable enough."

REI said...

Will Hillary withdraw and throw her support to Obama in a deal to become the first female VP?

Would Obama want her on the ticket?

EnigmatiCore said...

I think Obama will choose Edwards.

Maxine Weiss said...

Uh oh.

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=594762

Lawgiver said...

Did Margaret Thatcher ever tear up like that? That lady had balls.

It's all about the balls. If you're born with balls it's OK to let people SOMETIMES see your softer side. If you're born without balls you can't cry like that and still be perceived as a viable presidential contender.

Brian O'Connell said...

If Obama wants a female VP, Hillary Clinton doesn't add much and takes a way a lot. Obama would be looking for executive experience, which means a governor. Someone like Janet Napolitano of Arizona.

Middle Class Guy said...

Anne E. Kornblut of WAPO has a gush piece on the phony Hillary cry fest. She believes Hillary was showing real emotions. The porcelain God is calling.

Bruce Hayden said...

Hillary's problem is that this feeds into the stereotype that women are too emotional to lead. Up until now, she could play at out-machoing the guys - not hard in her party. A lot of guys, and even plenty of women, are now going to ask themselves whether they want to risk an emotional breakdown on her part, should she be elected president, and should something untoward happen under her watch.

George said...

Lawgiver--

Just yesterday I noted that one candidate was actually honored for his balls--

For being "a dogged investigator, willing to follow the investigation wherever it led....'"two brass spherical objects mounted on a rectangular platform with the inscription, 'You've got 'em, kid, you've got 'em.'"

And, McCain--tortured by the North Vietnamese...you won't see him misting up...

Just yesterday Iranian "suicide boats" (?) got within 200 yards of three of our warships... yeah, we need a weepy President....

John Lynch said...

Cry more, noob.

If she mentioned he little dog Checkers, it would have been perfect. Too bad she ditched Sox.

Revenant said...

I think Obama will choose Edwards.

What does Edwards bring to the table?

Lamar63 said...

I think the whole Muskie comparison is over-blown. We now live in the new touchy-feely America.

If people believe she was showing honest emotion then it will help her. If they think she was not genuine then her free fall will continue.

John Stodder said...

More on bodily fluids and the primaries. Today, Christopher Hitchens wrote the following:

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois is the current beneficiary of a tsunami of drool.

Ugh! But kinda good.

If I were Hillary, I'd be crying too. Obama has ascended the political muck, the first candidate to do so since Robert Kennedy. There's really nothing she can say against him or for herself that doesn't seem like a massive missing of the point.

The old American PR rhythm will eventually hit Obama and he will be taken down a peg, eventually. But by the time that happens, Hillary will be baking cookies, muttering to herself about how she blew it.

Stephen Snell said...

vnjag,

I was all pumped and jacked to come here and say maybe Hillary! should have married Ed Muskie.

Yeah, she's ready from day one. On day two Iran will pull something and she'll be crying about how difficult it is to sit there while her handlers put on her face. That'll scare'em.

Tearing up about something like 9/11 is one thing (and Hill's false story about Chelsea in danger another), crying because reality is at variance with her sense of self-entitlement is quite another.

Doyle, you're a bitter turd--we get it already. What I wonder about is why you feel the need to be an assh*le ALL the time? Are you jealous because the blogger here is successful and you're... you?

I suppose without the internet you'd be out poking strangers with pins, so in that sense I commend the esteemed Professor Althouse for tolerating your incivility in the name of the general welfare--you hapless pin PRICK.

EnigmatiCore said...

"What does Edwards bring to the table?"

More votes and better hair.

john said...

Brian O'Connell -

Janet has balls.

knoxwhirled said...

it really underscores the realization that women are not ready in America to have their hands on the reins of power.

If Condi had run, I certainly don't envision her breaking down like this. She always seemed very capable and professional to me.

I happen to believe this was a real moment of vulnerability/self-pity, but is an embarrassing example for women regardless.

Mortimer Brezny said...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/01/meet-the-new-hi.html

john said...

John Stodder -

How did Robert Kennedy "ascend the political muck"? If that's what you meant to say, what did you mean? I don't follow.

bearbee said...

It is not the crying, it is the self-pity. She always seems to whine when things go wrong.

There are/have been plenty of tough women...Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Benazir Bhutto, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, Queen Elizabeth I, Angela Merkel just to name a few.

hdhouse said...

Dear Geo-Pee-r's

Hillary can finish a distant 3rd and she will still beat any of the twinkies you guys are running.

Let's see....

Father Time
Herman Munster
Slim "Pat Robertson" Huckleberry
Rudy toot toot
Ghangis Paul
who am I leaving out?
ohhh right, Mutt Rubbery...flipflipflip flop.

just drooling with anticipation.

AJ Lynch said...

If we are talking VP choices, Obama has to go with someone with military experience

i.e Senator Jim Webb, General Wesley Clark. Someone like that.

Roger said...

bearbee said it pretty well--I don't recall Golda Meir, Dame Thatcher, or Indira Ghandi crying on the stump. If she can't handle a friggin political campaign, I don't want her making decisions that will put our troops in harms way. It makes no difference to me whether it was an act or not--in either case, she's not up to the task.

Roger said...

You're absolutely right, HD--that is such an impressive, experienced democratic slate of potential candidates.

Patm said...

"I have so many opportunities for this country," is such a WEIRD thing to say. It struck me as soon as I heard her say it.

And for Hillary it's just like Bill, it's all about her. They never stop saying "I" and talk about "we."

And "we" need that.

PatCA said...

I think her behavior is repulsive. My objections to her were based on her being married to a former president and being a socialist/nanny, but her flirting, crying, and now sucking face with Christopher, baby convince me she is unqualified for any public office.

Where is her dignity?!

Stephen Snell said...

hdhouse,

i've inferred from your last post that you are at best dull normal, so i'll type this really slowly...

if hillary finishes 3rd, she can't beat any of the GOP candidates. only the winner moves on to the final.

if you meant 3rd in NH, considering the range of the discussion, you should have written so (but you didn't mean that because if you had you would have included the step of getting the nomination). Occam's suggests that you're several dozen cognitive delegates short of a quorum.

Bissage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mortimer Brezny said...

Where is her dignity?!

She needs to blunt the news cycle pre-NH. Otherwise, negative Hillary stuff or pro-Edwards/Obama stuff would be broadcast. Instead, it's about her emotions and realness. She's trying to blunt the loss.

It was this or GET OUT OF THE RACE.

Bissage said...

IMHO, whether Mrs. Clinton is a woman or a liberal or a Democrat or a stressed-out Soccer Mom has little to do with it. I’d prefer not to sound too much like a jerk, here, but what follows needs to be said.

I have some experience in the (sad little) discipline of stagecraft and passable tear-jerker acting is done, as follows:

(1) memorize your lines (or not, it’s not always necessary);

(2) convince yourself you’re among friends (the hardest part for honest people);

(3) feel the way you felt once before when someone hurt your feelings so much you were ashamed to cry; and

(4) anticipate the validation you’ll receive from your audience.

Just about anybody who’s had an unhappy childhood can do it. It doesn’t usually take more than four months of semi-concentrated study. The accomplished narcissist can pick it up even sooner.

That’s because the accomplished narcissist knows that the people who cry with you are really the entirety of the world and there is a just God, after all.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I am by NO means a Hillary admirer, but I did feel that this was the first time she showed genuine emotion. She is feeling sorry for herself. Herself....you note....not anyone else.

She didn't "cry". She did get a bit choked up. She would have to be a damned good actress to fake the emotions in that interview and we know from experience that she is never good at that sort of thing: coming off wooden and phoney. If anything it did make her a 'bit' more humanlike.

ZPS said...

You guys are ridiculous.

I'm no fan...I would never have voted for her...but here's a person who has worked her ass off at something for over a year (not counting all the years of planning) and when she comes to the realization that she's failed, she gets choked up. And what do you all do? You call her repulsive, manipulative, unfit for the job, a liar, etc.etc.

I guess because so many of you hate her so much, it's easy to hit her while she's down. Very mature. As you sit behind your computers, I wonder how much you will contribute to this country. I wonder if you will put yourself up for public humiliation and scrutiny in front of millions upon millions of people. I wonder what risks you've taken, for better or worse.

She has more guts than most of you will ever have, and if you took a break from your childish schadenfreude, maybe you'd at least give her credit for that.

Paul said...

I don't doubt Hillary's capacity for emotion. Tales of raging tantrums are too widespread to be doubted. But they are the emotions of a bully and tyrant, so it's perfectly understandable that she should shed real tears for the only thing that she really cares about. Namely Hillary Rodham Clinton and her all consuming ambition for power and stature.

Bill is a narcissist of a different stripe. He's more obsessed with adulation and the groupies it supplies

Paul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger said...

ZPS: Congrats: theme and variations on the chickenhawk argument. HRC decided to run--and its clear she can't take the heat.

knoxwhirled said...

ZPS,
for someone who's not a fan, you seem to think Hillary has accomplished a lot. In reality, she hasn't--beyond amassing huge amounts of personal wealth as a lawyer--which is why a lot of her detractors don't like her. The understanding is that she's riding Bill's coattails. When it comes down to it, she doesn't have much of a track record. Therefore, lack of sympathy when she claims to have so much to offer...

michael farris said...

I'm not quite ready to throw Clinton on the dust heap of history yet.

For all the media crushing on Obama we really don't know if he can take a media hit (because there haven't been any yet and there certainly will be).

Dean looked pretty good in 2004 but a couple of early setbacks and a very minor media hit made his campaign implode.

Clinton's been taking hundreds of media hits for 15 years and is still around. Simple survival is not a political skill to be taken lightly.

Middle Class Guy said...

ZPS said
I wonder if you will put yourself up for public humiliation and scrutiny in front of millions upon millions of people. I wonder what risks you've taken, for better or worse.


She put her self up for public humiliation. No one else did it to her. She has not had any scrutiny. Compared to the other candidates she is an emigma, wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in an enigma. No one in the media even questioned her claims. She ran a campaign based on hubris, entitlement to office, and inevitibility. She created her own down fall and huliliation.

Oh, I have taken risks. I risked my life for almost thrity years as a Police Officer. That is real risk. Running for office is just an ego massage.

From Inwood said...

Patm

You beat me to it, the narcissism alert, that is. I was just about to make the point that tho I do not have a PhD in psych, I can count the number of times a person uses "I" in a speech.

She's the opposite of the guy in The Godfather who said that it was nothing personal, just business.

With Hillary, everything is personal, even business & everything is business, even personal.

Mortimer Brezny said...

She has more guts than most of you will ever have

If that were true, she wouldn't be throwing temper tantrums and crying in a vain attempt to rescue her campaign's momentum. She has $100 million and an excellent political machine. There are thousands of delegates yet to be distributed. She is not down. She is scheming. And manipulating. And you are falling for it, or trying to get us to. I don't hate Hillary Clinton. I hate the fact there is no rationale to her candidacy. She just wants the Presidency because she thinks she's entitled to it, like a brat who bawls for a pony for her birthday. I don't like that. I respected her before. Not after today.

George said...

For better or worse, it looks like the Democratic Party nominee will be someone who has only two years experience in national politics, no foreign policy experience, and who, less than a month ago, told the NY Times' Roger Cohen “I believe in American exceptionalism"...but not one based on “our military prowess or our economic dominance.”

Pogo said...

Obama is an enigma wrapped in soporific pablum, inside a soft fuzzy bunny.

His whole schtick gives me diabetes. He's the Hello Kitty of politics; the presidential hopeful with the Happy Party Pals and Bubblegum Friends as running mates.

In Rainbow Brite ObamaWorld, everywhere there will be flowers, rainbows will cross the sky once more, and there will be a pony that drinks from the Chocolate River and shits marshmallows.

Paul said...

Obama will be practically immune from criticism from the PC lefty media, and has the rock star appeal to capture the youth vote, who are apparently finally motivated to go to the polls. How many brainwashed students who see the world through the eyes of the likes of Howard Zinn have entered the voting ranks since 2000? He's the perfect PC Tranzi candidate, right down to refusing to hold his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance.

He's in way over his head and it is looking like he is on the way to cruising to the Oval Office. It will be the children in charge of the playground and the hard guys out there are licking their chops.

Eric Muller said...

Lawgiver asks (rhetorically) whether Margaret Thatcher ever cried in public.

Yes.

"One friend says she 'hasn't had a single really good day' since her departure from Downing Street in November 1990, when tears smudging mascara down her cheek had to be hastily wiped away with a tissue."

antiphone said...

He's the perfect PC Tranzi candidate, right down to refusing to hold his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance.

This is disinformation Paul, simply not true. Who are you calling brainwashed?

ZPS said...

Well now I hope she wins tomorrow...just to prove that crying works.

Then, on the night before South Carolina I want Fred Thompson bawling on Hannity and Colmes.

All of you seem to hate her because of her sense of entitlement and lack of a record. Uhh, reality check...all the candiates have the entitlement thing working (you'd have to in order to go for the job) and most of them have spotty records at best (planning the Olympics, losing 100 pounds, BFF with Orpah, corrupt mayor, etc.etc.).

You all hated her 15 years ago when she refused to stay in the kitchen and bake cookies and you hate her the same way now. You hate her because she's a woman. You hate because she's a Democrat. You hate her because you hate her husband. You hate her because she's capitalizing on her husband's success!...something a Woman SHOULD NEVER DO! It's classic and I can see right through you all.

I also hope she wins tomorrow just to tick you all off.

Eli Blake said...

AJ Lynch:

Yup, lol too.

George:

For better or worse, it looks like the Democratic Party nominee will be someone who has only two years experience in national politics, no foreign policy experience,...

Yeah, yeah. Al Gore, had lots of experience. So did John Kerry. For that matter, if Democrats were still worrying about who had the 'most experience' then Richardson, Biden and Dodd would have finished 1-2-3 in Iowa instead of 4-5-6.

Besides, I'd only mention that the only President we've ever had who hailed from Illinois during the election had even less experience than Obama-- Abraham Lincoln also ran for the Senate a couple of years before running for President, but he lost that election and never even served in public office. So what does experience mean, anyway?

Eli Blake said...

Correction: Lincoln did serve a couple of terms in Congress. But he still had less experience than Obama.

Alan said...

So Rush basically echoed my 12:13pm comment in the previous thread.

Mortimer Brezny said...

You all hated her 15 years ago when she refused to stay in the kitchen and bake cookies and you hate her the same way now. You hate her because she's a woman.

If this is what Hillary supporters think, that explains why there aren't enough of them to win.

Meade said...

zps said: I also hope she wins tomorrow just to tick you all off.

Well then, zps, not only are you a poor judge of your fellow commenters here, but you clearly have the emotional maturity level of a three year-old.

Ann Althouse said...

Alan, yes, exactly.

He also said: "I wonder if Harry Thomson and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason coached her, like they coached bill on how say that he "never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky, not a single time, never.""

Paul said...

"Who are you calling brainwashed?"

The entire Gramscian left who see America as the source of all that's wrong with the world. I know hundreds of these folks as my profession and geographic location have put me squarely in their midst.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Just curious. Does Rush Limbaugh read this website?

Middle Class Guy said...

ZPS
You all hated...

This is the personal politics drivel; if you hate their politics, you hate the person and thus invalidadte them.

Hillary is an empty shell. there is no substance, no experience, and no record. She is mediocrity exemplified. Also, she chose to enter the big arena and has to suffer the setbacks; just like all the other candidates.

MISS said...

WOW! I can't believe what I'm reading. What do you "guys" want from women? When a woman acts like she has balls, then she's too much of a man, but if she cries, she's a sissy.

I don't get it?

Oh, but I do. Most of you people are just like Bill O'Reilly and his stupid Harlem comment. You think it's really cool if you support and vote for a "brown" person. What don't you "guys" just come out and say it. It will require "balls" you know, to admit the truth!

And by the way, I haven't made up my mind yet, but you folks sure are pushing me toward Hillary.

I'll be sure to tell all of my friends about this blog. I'm sure that any who were thinking about voting for Obama will be quite turned off by the sexist, "women belong in the kitchen" flavored comments here.

I'd swear you were a bunch of Republicans!

antiphone said...

I'd swear you were a bunch of Republicans!

Most of them are Republicans and they don’t support Obama. They’re just dittoheads who hate Clintons.

Meade said...

from Wikipedia the free encyclopedia:

An alternate explanation is that hillary tears cannot be authentic because hillaries cannot cry; they lack tear ducts. Yet this is a myth: hillaries possess lachrymal glands which secrete a proteinaceous fluid, just like in humans, though tears will only be visible after a hillary is out of the water for a prolonged period of time, and dries out. However, while hillaries can and do generate tears, they do not weep or cry for remorse or for anyone but their own sad sack selves.

Middle Class Guy said...

Maybe the people who keep throwing around the hate word should visit sites like KOS, MyDD, or Democratic Underground. That is real hatred along with immaturity, obscenity, vulgarity, and profanity.

This is America and the last time I checked, criticism was still allowed as well as party affiliation. Of course maybe the Democrats want to end that.

We do not hate them. We hate what they do and what they represent. They are the ones who hate people.

Hillary deserves all the criticism heaped upon her. She brought it on herself. An since she is disingenuous and dishonest, it is hard to beleive her tears were real.

antiphone said...

We do not hate them. We hate what they do and what they represent. They are the ones who hate people.

You go Middle Class Guy! You’re real convincing.

madawaskan said...

Wow-this is really, really bad.

vnjagvet-

The Muskie incident-didn't the same sort of thing happen to Dukakis?

Mortimer Brezny said...

I'll be sure to tell all of my friends about this blog.

That was the plan the whole time. All Hillary has is stoking the gender card by claiming there is misogyny out there. The entire thing was staged. I suspect, though, that the echo chamber of fake cries of misogyny within the Democratic Party simply isn't large enough to rescue New Hampshire. The saddest part is Edwards and Obama are out there actually trying to persuade undecided voters with arguments, not preying on their indigination with fake tears.

Mortimer Brezny said...

When a woman acts like she has balls, then she's too much of a man, but if she cries, she's a sissy.

Actually most people here think Hillary didn't cry, and this was a ploy.

antiphone said...

Actually most people here think Hillary didn't cry, and this was a ploy.

It’s not thinking. It’s a knee jerk reaction.

MISS said...

Well then mortimer, if this was all part of Hillary's "plan", looks like you and your buds fell for it too.

Yeah, that's it. She made a plan to get white guys to put her down for "crying" so that the rest of America would come running to her with their sympathy.

Whatever!

George said...

Eli--

Lincoln had been a corporate attorney, representing railroads. 5,100 cases in 23 years, sez Wiki...wow...

Obama...law prof....

On the other hand, both Giuliani and Thompson were US attorneys, McCain, Naval officer, senator for 4 terms, Romney did LBOs...lots of experience...

It did take Abe a few years to find Grant...he had a rough start

These days I hope we can afford on-the-job presidential training...we don't need terrorists in Pennsylvania any more than Lincoln wanted Lee at Gettysburg.

EnigmatiCore said...

Oooh! A flame war! I bet all sorts of people will be persuaded one way or another by yet another one of these!

Paul said...

It's always funny when leftists erupt in moral high dudgeon accusing the right of hatred. It's natural I suppose to hate one's enemies but having been a foolish left leaning Clinton suporter back in the 90's I got to witness the right's hatred for Clinton from the same vantage point as I now see the left's hatred for Bush. I have never seen anything like the kind of murderous rage the left has for GWB. To compare the two requires completely different scales.

MISS said...

Paul,

That's because Dubya is a murderer.

EnigmatiCore said...

A murderer?

Other than the English language, what precisely he murdered?

sfletcher99 said...

antiphone-

This is disinformation Paul, simply not true.

Please explain...

Is Obama:
a)"Deaf"?
b)"Dumb"?
c)"Giving a 'shout-out' to Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf"?
d)"Recovering from a recent rotator cuff surgery"?
e)"Honoring Amputee-Americans"?

Revenant said...

When a woman acts like she has balls, then she's too much of a man, but if she cries, she's a sissy. I don't get it?

Well then, let me explain it to you: men don't actually think the first part of that. I've never heard a guy complain that a woman acted too much like a guy. Oh, I'm sure some guys say stuff like that, but I've never heard it said about Hillary.

Hillary's problem is that she has an annoying personality. That is not a particularly gender-related problem, except inasmuch as men with annoying personalities are not usually able to ride their spouses' coattails the way that Hillary has Bill's.

MISS said...

Didn't Dubya pull the trigger to invade Iraq? Wait, sorry, President Cheney pulled the trigger.

Sorry, my bad!

Paul said...

Miss,

George Bush is no muderer, but you are the textbook example of an unhinged troll. I think even the coterie of usual lefty trolls here collectively might have winced at that idiotic statement.

EnigmatiCore said...

I see. You are one of those.

john said...

No MISS -

GB43's dad did. Remember Kuwait? Sadam? He invaded Kuwait? Remember now? There was a war going on at the time. GB41 stopped the advance.

Then Hillary's husband did. He got to shoot down Sadam's jets, and launch some cruise missiles, into military sites, into aspirin factories. But noone actually died then, right MISS, because noone saw the dead bodies, and that would have been murder? Right MISS?

Noone got murdered in Kosovo either. Right MISS?

So the new strike into Iraq by GWB, 13 years after the war started, constitutes pulling the trigger and becoming a murderer now?

MISS, I gather you are female and a Hillary supporter. I hope you are old enough to vote, and I also hope you take some time to review a little history. It might help you with your histrionics.

madawaskan said...

Oops-googled it Dukakis got in trouble for not being emotional enough.

Lawgiver said...

It will require "balls" you know, to admit the truth!

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth.

Chuck Norris pulled the trigger on Iraq. Bush is only Chuck's sock puppet. And we all know who Chuck is supporting for president don't we?

We don't live in a democracy we live in a Chucktatorship where Chuck allows us to believe we can actually elect a president.

MISS said...

Oh, I'm a troll! Well thank you very much! I'll wear that title proudly! But it doesn't change the fact that George and Dick are responsible for the deaths of millions. That's right, millions. I for one am tired of the "Godly" images they try to portray to intimidate Americans. There is nothing Godly about causing the deaths of millions of innocent people.

For those that say Hillary is manipulative and cunning and strategizing every move, it's no different than what our cowardly prez is doing. At least Hillary isn't throwing around scare tactics the way the Republicans do. Her only fault is falling for the crap that the Right used to scare the bejeezus out of a country when they felt vulnerable and for that I am disappointed in her, but all candidates have their faults. I think she learned a great lesson from that.

john said...

Ever had chucktators? They're kinda like tator tots.

EnigmatiCore said...

The only reason Chuck Norris is conscious is because Jack Bauer doesn't want to have to carry him.

And Nino knows we would never arrest Jack, so there you have it.

antiphone said...

Sfletcher99, go read what Paul wrote. The national anthem is not the pledge of allegiance.

…refusing to hold his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance.

You can still whine about whether Obama is Patriotically Correct, just get your facts straight.

EnigmatiCore said...

Deaths of millions?

Troll or not, you are unintentionally hilarious. Can you rant some more, please?

But make sure to dab the spittle off the corner of your mouth before you type. Remember- foam prevention isn't just a good idea, it's the law!

john said...

Millions? Millions! I'll raise you that MISS, and say that GWB and DC have murdered Brazillions! Trouble is, GWB doesn't know how many a Brazillion is.

Kinda like you not knowing how many a million is.

EnigmatiCore said...

Hey-- you see that, over in the corner? It's a scare tactic, just tossed off by some loon! Looks like a "he's a murder" and "killed MILLLLLLLLLIIIIIOOOONNNNNNNS" combo. Wonder who threw that? It's a relatively delicious scare tactic at that, extremely fruity yet with a nutty bouquet at the same time.

MISS said...

There's no foam coming from my mouth. I'm cool, calm and collect. Looks like you guys sure do have your panties in a wad over a few comments made by a meek, insignificant woman who should be slaving a way in the kitchen.

Oh, your true colors are showing. You guys are afraid of Hillary. What a hoot!!!

EnigmatiCore said...

"I'm cool, calm and collect."

And oh so good looking, too. And you top it off with incredible modesty!

Of course, you probably meant to say "and collected", but being as suave as you are, those last two letters were completely needless.

Of course I fear Hillary. She voted for the Iraq war, which means she is a murderer. Of millions. What's not to fear?

Bissage said...

I for one, fear Chuck Norris!

Paul said...

Speaking only for myself my panties are hardly in a wad but I am rolling my eyes and moving to the other side of the street to give the crazy woman a bit more room. And while you are indeed insignificant meekness doesn't exactly emanate from your unhinged rantings.

Nor am I afraid of Hillary. I desperately want her to win the nomination because I am truly afraid of Obama.

MISS said...

Well it's been nice folks, but I'll leave you to either go back to fighting amongst yourselves or to continue to voice your support of a "brown" guy that none of you would ever have the guts to vote for anyway. Sadly most of you would never vote for a brown guy or a woman.

Parting words for you to think about - I wonder what you would be saying if Obama and Hillary were running on the Republican ticket. Would you support them then or go for the white guys? You don't even need to reply - we all know what the answer would be.

Night all!

Paul said...

"The national anthem is not the pledge of allegiance."

For a patriot they evoke the same response. You'll just have to take my word for it.

EnigmatiCore said...

Pleasant dreams, Miss. May visions of Madeline Albright grace them all night long.

john said...

Maybe MISS, perhaps, a brown woman on the GOP ticket. Shit, what would a Dem do then?

antiphone said...

For a patriot they evoke the same response. You'll just have to take my word for it.

I know all about your brand of patriotism. I read Animal Farm.

rossi said...

His whole schtick gives me diabetes. He's the Hello Kitty of politics; the presidential hopeful with the Happy Party Pals and Bubblegum Friends as running mates.

In Rainbow Brite ObamaWorld, everywhere there will be flowers, rainbows will cross the sky once more, and there will be a pony that drinks from the Chocolate River and shits marshmallows.


As much as you're probably a shill for HRC, I think this is the funniest comment I've read in a long time.

EnigmatiCore said...

You do realize that Animal Farm is a satirical allegory about communism, right?

Lawgiver said...

"Oh, your true colors are showing. You guys are afraid of Hillary. What a hoot!!!"

Smells like LOS. Only he (whose name cannot be spelled out) uses that phrase.

EnigmatiCore said...

A recycled troll and not a new one?

What is this world coming to...

john said...

Lawgiver,

I dont think its Lucky. LOS has occasionally interacted on a sane and intellegent level. When he gets into an argument, however, he gets an erection and starts pleading for oral sex.

antiphone said...

It’s not about the ism. It’s about human nature.

EnigmatiCore said...

No, it was about what Orwell saw as Soviet communist corruption of socialist ideals. It was very much about Stalin and company.

Paul said...

"I know all about your brand of patriotism."

No. You do not. But I do know how you think as I once thought similarly. However I was never so obtuse.

antiphone said...

Your insistence on a single, literal interpretation of Animal Farm is ironic.

Paul said...

"Parting words for you to think about - I wonder what you would be saying if Obama and Hillary were running on the Republican ticket. Would you support them then or go for the white guys? You don't even need to reply - we all know what the answer would be."

Well how about a black woman? I'd gladly vote for Condi if her policy positions were more like John Bolton's.

Your notion that Republicans are
racist is pure bigotry on your part. It's a cheap way for you to feel superior about yourself

I'm a musician and work in black clubs a lot. I get a kick out of inviting white liberal friends to come see me at one of them and watch how uncomfortable they are.

Paddy O. said...

I wonder what you would be saying if Obama and Hillary were running on the Republican ticket.

I'd say they were waaaaaaaaaaaay too liberal to win as Republicans. But I've been saying that about Huckabee too, and he's doing pretty well.

Personally I was a very early supporter of a Condi run. And Colin Powell should have been the first black president back in '96, only he refused to run. I think he would have been much better as president than secretary of State. Would have won in a landslide over Clinton too.

But apparently he and his wife felt that the political opponents would have been way too nasty to a black Republican candidate.

Funny how that works.

EnigmatiCore said...

Let's just say that your reading comprehension must be substandard, and leave it at that.

Paul said...

"Your insistence on a single, literal interpretation of Animal Farm is ironic."

My response has nothing whatsoever to do with "Animal Farm".

My patriotism is based entirely on a sense of gratitude, so don't even bother trying to comprehend it.

Paddy O. said...

a single, literal interpretation is ironic

You mean there aren't really talking pigs? Whew! Does that mean that Boxer didn't actually really end up at the glue farm? He was such a dedicated member of the proletariat.

By the by, your insistence on the text fitting into your personal meaning is the height of postmodern bourgeois and a corruption of the revolution. Snowball wouldn't have anything to do with you.

knoxwhirled said...

You all hated her 15 years ago when she refused to stay in the kitchen and bake cookies and you hate her the same way now. You hate her because she's a woman. You hate because she's a Democrat. You hate her because you hate her husband. You hate her...

Thanks, working late and I needed that laugh.

john said...

PaddyO

A bit OT, I agree with you that Powell could have won in 96. But I think he got the word early on from within the GOP that he would not be a suitable Republican candidate. I don't think it ever got far enough along for him to judge the Dem response to him.

antiphone said...

My patriotism is based entirely on a sense of gratitude, so don't even bother trying to comprehend it.

How is it then that you seek to impugn the patriotism of others?

antiphone said...

Snowball wouldn't have anything to do with you.

But you can bet he wants my vote in New Hampshire.

Revenant said...

I wonder what you would be saying if Obama and Hillary were running on the Republican ticket.

I'd be saying "how much is a one-way ticket to New Zealand?". The day those two are the "conservative" choice in an election is the day I turn in my citizenship. :)

EnigmatiCore said...

"But you can bet he wants my vote in New Hampshire"

Ah, I see. So the problem was not reading comprehension so much as that you have never read the book.

antiphone said...

Or is it Napoleon I’m supposed to vote for? Who’s the straight talking, honest one?

Paddy O. said...

John, is that true? I hadn't heart that. For some reason I thought it had come down to him wanting to run but his wife said no, because she was scared for him. I thought everything else was clear other than that.

Interesting, and kind of sad, if you're right.

Paddy O. said...

Who’s the straight talking, honest one?

Boxer. Too straight talking and honest. A horse with hope misplaced. Got sent to the glue farm when he finally ran out of strength.

I cried.

Beth said...

I just listened to Rush Limbaugh's treatment of this incident.

A little peroxide will have your ears sparkly clean in no time.

He made much of the fact that there are no visible tears.

Indeed, everytime my voice trembles tears come rushing down my face.

Who's playing the gender card again?

Paul said...

"How is it then that you seek to impugn the patriotism of others?"

You have none to impugn. You are a cookie cutter lefty troll who has never had an original thought in your head in your life. I know scads of people like you and your talking points and narrative are utterly predictable.

And boring.

ZPS said...

IRON MY SHIRT!

antiphone said...

Paul you pathetic asshole, you’re here every day spouting right wing talking points and you call me boring. Get a life.

Paul said...

"Paul you pathetic asshole, you’re here every day spouting right wing talking points and you call me boring. Get a life."

Boring and stupid. This is my first time posting here.

john said...

PaddyO

I was looking for a record of what Richard Viguerie was saying about Powell being too liberal. Also, his wife reportedly threatened to leave him if he ran. I think that he got little repub support in his runup to the campaign season, and didnt have the stomach for the fight.

Revenant said...

Who's playing the gender card again?

I don't see what the gender card has to do with it. If a male candidate cried after losing a single primary contest I'd think he was too much of an emotional weakling to be President, too.

Beth said...

I believe you would, Rev, and that's why I think it's Rush playing the gender card, in his analysis.

Mortimer Brezny said...

I believe you would, Rev, and that's why I think it's Rush playing the gender card, in his analysis.

That makes no sense. I have never seen Nancy Pelosi cry, and she hasn't been the most effective Seapker in history. Good for her. I have no idea why a Presidential candidate with a decent shot at the nomination and $100 million in the bank is crying. It's just unbecoming. It is not Presidential. And it is awfully coincidentally exactly what she needs to do to curb her negatives with the women voters who have deserted her. I smell a rat. And so does my mother. I suppose my mother is a sexist for having an opinion. She should just shut up and vote Hillary. Because women making up their own minds about what they want in a President: that's misogyny. Please.

Revenant said...

I believe you would, Rev, and that's why I think it's Rush playing the gender card, in his analysis.

How is he "playing the gender card"?

Beth said...

How? By accusing her of playing it -- he's the one looking through the prism of gender and spinning it as a calculated, gendered performance. He'll use that card over and over, as long as she's in the race.

Beth said...

Mortimer, I have no idea why you'd want to tell your mother to shut up and vote for anyone, or why you think she's sexist for being suspicious of Hillary.

I know that what I think, and what I'm saying, is that Rush is just as guilty of playing the gender card as he thinks Hillary is. If you want to weave tales of misogyny and sexism from that, go ahead. But it's a little hysterical.

Revenant said...

Beth,

If it was true that Hillary's display of emotion was inauthentic (which Rush supposedly believes), I think it would be fair to say that Hillary was taking advantage of her gender. After all, had a male candidate broken down and seemed on the verge of tears after losing Iowa, his Presidential hopes would be kaput. Women and men alike would watch that and think "what a wimp". Fairly or unfairly, women can get away with crying in public more readily than men can.

That being said, I don't think she was faking it. Her attempts to fake emotion have always seemed transparently phony to me, and this seemed genuine. Heck, in her position I'd probably be crying too, but then again I'm not emotionally fit to be President either. :)

Beth said...

So when John McCain gets all bellicose and martial, is he taking advantage of the kind of expression allowed to his gender, to generate some better press and get his numbers back up? This is new territory for us, with a woman in the presidential race, and it's raising interesting questions. What kind of personality would best serve a woman candidate for this office? In what ways does a woman candidate have to be careful about expressing emotions in a way that feels natural for her but would be damning for a man? Should women never cry in public, or should men try on the idea that crying doesn't always mean much of anything? How do men posture, and adjust their egos in public? How do they use charm, or project strength?

I don't think we can, or should, remove gender from our filters as we watch this race. But I'm not going to turn to Rush for a useful application of thoughtful analysis, either.

Beth said...

Heck, in her position I'd probably be crying too, but then again I'm not emotionally fit to be President either. :)

Finally, we agree on something. In fact, you speak for me here as well.

On that note, good night.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Mortimer, I have no idea why you'd want to tell your mother to shut up and vote for anyone, or why you think she's sexist for being suspicious of Hillary.

That's remarkable, Beth, since your argument is that my mother should shut up and vote for Hillary and if she doesn't, she must be a gender-traitor. Perhaps you should learn your own talking points.

Revenant said...

So when John McCain gets all bellicose and martial, is he taking advantage of the kind of expression allowed to his gender, to generate some better press and get his numbers back up?

I think the example of Thatcher and the Falklands war shows that female politicians can also win popular support by being bellicose. Heck, I'd be pleased as punch if Hillary promised to kick some radical Muslim butt, but the Kossites would probably throw her under the bus if she tried that.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Rev,

Admirable as Thatcher was, that model doesn't help Hillary.

Tearing up is an attempt to reboot her campaign and change the nature of the news coverage. So she can talk about her passion and Obama has to talk about his record and experience. And so she can blatantly play the gender card without being called on it.

Hillary Clinton: Using cheap tricks to kill inspiration.

Roger said...

Wow--leave this thread for a while and all sorts of strange folks crawling out of the woodwork..I am glad we get the occasional poster like MISS just to demonstrate how ignorant of reality some on that side of the aisle really are. Pathetic. Kind of makes you miss LOS and QUXXO.

Whether HRC was for real or faking it, its really immaterial. She has two constituencies she has to win: women and blacks. Obama split the gender vote in IA and I suspect he will take even more of it NH. South Carolina will show how the black vote may go; and given some recent polling data in SC, HRC is also in trouble there. She doesnt win those demographics big, she's toast--cell phone calls to Bubba, crying, age lines or shirt ironing nothiwithstanding.

Beth said...

Quote me, Mortimer, saying anyone (not just your dear mother) should shut up and vote for Hillary. You're quite mistaken. My comments in this thread are focused on what it means to "play the gender card." Nothing else. I don't care who your mother votes for.

Rachel Clapp Smith said...

Why is this getting so much attention? I most be blind, because I didn't see any tears. I heard a little choke up, which may or may not have been sincere, but given how calculated Hilary generally is, I highly doubt that this was a slip of unregulated emotion.

This is what I find upsetting about media and politics in our country today:
1. we are more concerned about gossip than issue. We have attached hype to a supposed teary comment, which didn't seem very teary to me. Who cares? what about social security? National security? the economy? and yes, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea (could the dems talk about something other than pulling out of Iraq for once?)

2. Are we looking for something to make this a gender issue? Finally we can sin Hilary because she's a woman and can be vulnerable (again whether sincerely or not).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a republican for crying out loud, so I'm not trying to come to Hilary's defense, I just don't know why this silly little episodes have to mean everything. Poor Howard Dean probably hasn't showed an ounce of excitement since the shriek. Do we really need to pay so much attention to this? (well, now I guess I'm just as bad as the rest, weighing in like this). Please, please, please, please (and this is a plea to media, not bloggers), focus on facts rather than hyping something trivial like this.

The Exalted said...

she's emotional because her campaign is foundering.

sweet jesus, how shallow do you have to be to not realize this.