January 10, 2008

"Hillary Clinton As A Gay Icon."

David Lat points to this 1999 article by Michelangelo Signorile.

ADDED: Based on some of the comments here, I can see I'd better clutter this post with some clues: 1. gay icon ≠ gay, 2. it's a compliment.

NOTE: Signorile's article is titled "Hillary: Viva la diva!"

84 comments:

rhhardin said...

Hillary! the broadway show.

Verso said...

Ann Althouse on Hillary Clinton

George said...

I bet she drives a Lesbaru.

Trooper York said...

Verso, Hillary is a battle-ax not a battle-ship. Sharpen up please.

DBrooks17 said...

Well, Obama is finished. Apparently, John Kerry is set to endorse him today.

Verso said...

Hillary is such a conundrum. There is so much loathing for her, absolute hatred. And yet, more votes have been cast for her than any other candidate except Barack Obama, who only surpasses her total by about 7250 votes (counting both Iowa and New Hampshire).

Hillary has received close to 80,000 more votes than John McCain (first in NH) and Huckabee (first in Iowa).

Ann was talking earlier about how wrong pundits can be. How inexpert is their analysis. I guess she is right! Because there is a massive disconnect between the feelings of the American people and the feelings of the Hillary-hating punditocracy, bloggers included.

After 16 years of non-stop bombardment, Hillary is still standing.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Hey, they don't call it a "broadside" for nothing.

MadisonMan said...

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

chickenlittle said...

re "Well, Obama is finished. Apparently, John Kerry is set to endorse him today."

Who cares about Lurch. What about the stepmoney? Who is her money on?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Verso, Hillary is a battle-ax not a battle-ship.

How about a dreadnought?

Trooper York said...

Obama called into to say that it's not the size of the ship that matters, it's the motion of the ocean.

Ann Althouse said...

I hope you people realize that calling someone a gay icon is not calling someone gay. Read the article. It's a compliment. Jeez.

Roger said...

I refuse to take a position until the blog's resident gay icon and head republican, Titus, weighs in on this issue. Barring that, perhaps the rare Clumbers can offer an opinion.

Trooper York said...

We know that Hillary is not gay professor. If she were, she would be thinking about Obama's hog. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I'm betting that Judy Garland is feeling rather unappreciated being replaced by the Hillary!

Trooper York said...

Plus, why would we read the article anyway. It is more important to have an opinion without having any of the facts. That's what the internet is all about.

chuck b. said...

Ewww, no she's not.


Death to the gay icon.

chuck b. said...

I mean, Death to Gay Icons Everywhere!

Trooper York said...

Does that mean that Chelsea has to marry David Gest? Poor kid. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Well except for Paula Abdul.

tightspotkilo said...

Tammy Faye was a gay icon too.

mcg said...

Well, someone has to step up and take over the Tammy Faye baton, I suppose!

mcg said...

Damn, great minds think alike!
(And so do ours.)

Verso said...

I hope you people realize that calling someone a gay icon is not calling someone gay. Read the article. It's a compliment. Jeez.

Well, yeah, I guess it's a compliment. Being a gay icon means she is beloved by the gay community. Somehow, though, I don't think that is a credential that will help Hillary appeal to the mainstream of the American public. One of Hillary's biggest image problems is that she is perceived by many as a far-out, radical leftist, despite her fairly centrist orientation. (She's the most conservative Democrat in the race.) Characterizing her as a diva beloved by gay people will just reinforce the impression that she is a radical feminist bent on the destructive of everything sacred and holy.

To put it another way, gay icon ≠ family values.

In 2004, the Republicans were quite successful rallying voters with a national campaign of gay bashing. Associating Hillary now with the targets of so much public animus certainly isn't a way to help her.

Bob said...

So is being a gay icon something to aspire to or be aghast with? I would sense Hillary would be a bit queasy to pick up Tammy Faye's baton.

And I'll behave and not comment on Bill and her iconic status though there is some fodder there...

Palladian said...

Clinton: Well, I have long advocated domestic partnership laws and civil unions, to me...

Lehrer: That's different from marriage.

Clinton: Well, marriage means something different. You know, marriage has a meaning that I... I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can't have, you know, many of the same rights and the same, you know, respect for their unions that they are seeking and I would like to see that be more accepted than it is.

Lehrer: But not with the context of marriage.

Clinton: Yeah, I, I think that is, you know... First of all, I think that it is unlikely, if not impossible, to be something nationally accepted in our country, but I also think that we can realize the same results for many committed couples by urging that states and localities adopt civil union and domestic partnership laws."

From an interview with Hillary Clinton on "The Brian Lehrer Show" on WNYC Radio, June 18, 2003, my own transcription

Some gay icon!

Palladian said...

Talking about gay icons and Tammy Faye and Judy Garland is fast achieving (in my mind anyway) the status of "watermelon" jokes when talking about black Americans. Unfunny, inapt and offensive, especially when done by gay people themselves, such as the loathsome Signorile.

Hillary doesn't speak for me, "gay icons" don't speak for me, gay activists don't speak for me. I can speak for myself.

Hoosier Daddy said...

One of Hillary's biggest image problems is that she is perceived by many as a far-out, radical leftist, despite her fairly centrist orientation.

Well that's probably because her 'centrist position' has been a gradual transormation that took place a few years back. If centrist means she isn't willing to flat out say she'll start withdrawing from Iraq after swearing in, then clearly the definition has changed from what I know it to be.

Honestly, from a policy perspective, there is hardly a shred of difference between Hillary! Obama and Edwards. Hillary is just better at couching her statements.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Neither Tammy Faye nor Judy Garland had watermelons. The gay icon's with watermelons can be narrowed down to Jayne Mansfield, Jane Russell and Anna Nicole Smith.

Pogo said...

Hillary is just better at couching her statements.


Must. Resist. Bill. Inversion.

Verso said...

Well that's probably because her 'centrist position' has been a gradual transormation that took place a few years back.

When was she a radical, far-out leftist? And what positions did she have that fit that characterization, and have since been "transformed"?

Middle Class Guy said...

Verso said...
Ann Althouse on Hillary Clinton



What's your point?

Palladian said...

I think Verso was alluding to the full-on battleship assault coverage that Althouse is giving Hillary!(?)

Middle Class Guy said...

Verso you are blinded by your love for Hillary. We do not hate her. We would just like to know about her. Since there is no recrod of anything she has ever accomplished, except for minor legislation in the Senate, it would be nice. She is an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

All we have is her ideas,which are so off the wall as to be laughable if certain people did not take her seriuosly.

BTW, why, Verso, is it alright to pke fun at, demean, and demonize other candidates but Hillary is off limits? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

Paul Zrimsek said...

When I minimized my browser just now, I saw the "Shortcut to Microsoft Office" icon on my desktop doing something absolutely disgusting with the "My Computer" icon. Curse you, Michelangelo Signorile!

Middle Class Guy said...

Verso said:

(She's the most conservative Democrat in the race.)

Have you read her positions on the issues? Have you read anything she has written? Have you been listening to her speeches? She has been a radical leftist since college.

Most gay icons are not gay or at least do not admit to being gay. However, calling Clinton one is a back handed compliment.

Roger said...

Hillary as leftist or centrist--beats the heck out of me. For much of her life, her instincts in domestic politics appear to be left of center (if her 1993 health care thing and universal pre kindergarten proposals are any indicators. By left of center I mean an inclination to use a government response rather than a private sector response. WRT foreign policy, she's saying the right things but how much of that is poll driven or has been forced on her by her unwillingness to grovel to the base about her AUMF vote. Not a heck of a lot on which to make a judgment except in comparison to Obama and Edwards.

paul a'barge said...

Teh gays get all the cool icons. Wha'sup wif dat?

Sarah Ferguson said...

I had a sex dream with Hillary Clinton last May. She pinned me against a wall and did things to me that no public figure has ever done to me in a dream. Although public figures have entered my dreams before. I've had lunch with George Bush and Obama once told me that the scent of one's breath reveals one's truth. I now revile Bush less and imagine Obama as wise. But my imaginings of Hillary trump both!

Just thought I would share...

rcocean said...

Gay Icons:
Betty Davis
Joan Crawford
Judy Garland

Not Gay Icons:
Grace Kelly
Audrey Hepburn
Doris Day.

Gaes are funny.

Verso said...

Verso you are blinded by your love for Hillary.

Well now that's a mystery! I was unaware that I loved Hillary. How is it possible that you were aware of my love for Hillary, but I was not? It's just like an episode of the Twilight Zone!



We do not hate her.

I wasn't addressing you, was I? Why are you responding as if I was speaking to you when I said that there is a lot of loathing for her in the United States?

And who is this "we" you refer to. Who, besides yourself, are you speaking for?

If you say you don't hate Hillary, I'll believe that. (Why wouldn't i?) But you're not denying that a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton, are you?



We would just like to know about her. Since there is no recrod of anything she has ever accomplished

Right. I caught that the last time you said it. And the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that ...



except for minor legislation in the Senate, it would be nice. She is an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

It's enigma, riddle, mystery, in any order. You're not supposed to use enigma twice.



All we have is her ideas,which are so off the wall as to be laughable if certain people did not take her seriuosly.

What are her most off the wall ideas?



BTW, why, Verso, is it alright to pke fun at, demean, and demonize other candidates but Hillary is off limits? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

You've given me two positions that I don't ever recall taking. (1) It is alright to poke fun at other candidates, and (2) Hillary is off limits.

In America, it's alright to poke fun at, demean, and demonize ANY candidate.

Trooper York said...

I wouldn't want to poke any of the candidates but I would definitely do some poking at Jeri Thompson. Talk about watermelons.


Plus the new style is to skip six lines between each sentence.

Middle Class Guy said...

Verso,
It's enigma, riddle, mystery, in any order. You're not supposed to use enigma twice.

Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me. Ann's post on martini glasses made me have one and I get confused when I drink.

Should I sue?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

gay icon = caricature of femininity

Verso said...

Plus the new style is to skip six lines between each sentence.

Sorry about that. I wanted to make it easier to track the beginning and end of each Q&A.

Hoosier Daddy said...

When was she a radical, far-out leftist? And what positions did she have that fit that characterization, and have since been "transformed"?

Well considering she favors a governmental solution to pretty much everything from universal health care to pre-K, that tells me quite a bit. Comments she has made such as We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good or how she wants to take the profits from oil companies to fund alternative fuel.

And yes Verso, I have read her comments in thier entirety and I still feel this while not a 'radical left wing', it is a fundamental socialist mentality. I am a free market capitalist and admit that forthwightly and without embarrasment so Hillary and I will never see eye to eye.

Trooper York said...

No problem dude, just pulling your leg.

jeff said...

"Well now that's a mystery! I was unaware that I loved Hillary. How is it possible that you were aware of my love for Hillary, but I was not? It's just like an episode of the Twilight Zone!"

possibly the same way you are aware of other people's hate of her.

"It's enigma, riddle, mystery, in any order. You're not supposed to use enigma twice. "

I am sure I have grammar and spelling issues in my post if you insist on taking that road.

"Right. I caught that the last time you said it. And the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that ..."

So do you have any answer to his question? I would be curious to know of her accomplishments also. Why do people support her? Based on what? That, by the way, is a actual question, not just snark.

I voted for gay marriages yet am a straight Republican. Can I be a gay icon also, or does the Republican thing rule me out? Plus the not being famous also of course.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Ann's post on martini glasses made me have one and I get confused when I drink.

Should I sue?


Hell I would. Check and make sure she didn't have some disclaimer or other such provisos in there though, you know how posting after drinking may be hazerdous to your ability to form coherent and/or accurate statements, quotations, statements of fact, fiction or dissertations thereof.

I'd ask for punitive and compensatory damages and if you can swing it, loss of consortium.

jeff said...

I lost my consortium once, but turned out the cat knocked it under the couch. Stupid cat.

former law student said...

Why is Hillary a gay icon?
- Bill's repeated cheating on Hillary makes her sympathetic to gays, who can relate to the "Men suck" meme.
- Hillary's choice of a striking Muslim aide revived the HRC = lesbian rumors
images.politico.com/global/humaimage.jpg
- Subliminally, people think HRC = Human Rights Campaign

Trooper York said...

Isn't the consortium the sex cult that Seven of Nine started? I think it cost a politician his job and we ended up with Obama as the senator from Illinois.

jeff said...

"Isn't the consortium the sex cult that Seven of Nine started?"

Silly trooper. Like an entire sex cult would fit under my couch? Sure, some of the toys, but the entire cult? I think not. Wouldn't mind having Seven of Nine on top of my couch though.

Trooper York said...

But Jeff, the entire cult is made up of Munchkins. Theoretically, it's possible they could fit under couch.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hillary Clinton: I’m the new gay icon! (cue ubiquitous HRC cackle)

Judy Garland: Didn’t we drop a house on you?

Hillary Clinton: Shut up you little twerp! I’m going to raise your taxes and take your little dog too! For the common good of course.

Judy Garland: I’m scared! Oh Auntie Em!

Liberace: Ooooo! What a ghastly woman! What are they thinking down there?

Joan Crawford: Arrrrrrggghh! She uses wire HANGERS!!!! Arrrrrrrrggghh!

Bill Clinton: I feel your pain.

John Stodder said...

Does this mean Rufus Wainwright is going to write and perform an opera based on "Living History?"

George said...

"We don't get royalties. We don't get residuals. Ninety-nine percent of the people work as contract day labor. It's very high-paid blue-collar work, like farm workers. After every time I get paid, I am unemployed until the next gig comes in....

"Another thing I hate about the industry is the unreasonable regulatory demands placed on us by the government."

--Male Republican heterosexual icon and porn star Nina Hartley quoted in today's "AV Club"

Trooper York said...

Well wearing a rubber will kind of mess up the money shot.

tituslut said...

Hello fellow republicans. I did not know Hilary Clinton was a gay icon-I must of missed the meeting.

I am a big gay but don't really pay much attention to the gay "leaders" or "press".

Yes, I love fashion, which I guess is gay, and have tits and an ass you can bounce quarters off which is also gay, and live in the gay ghetto which is also gay and have quite a bit of gay sex.

I generally don't like other gays. But really it is not my own internalized homophobia, I just don't like most gay people.

tituslut said...

Most of time when meeting other gays that I know I will be having sex with my motto is always less talk.

The more they talk, generally, the less turned on I am.

That's why when the first drop of cum hits the bed I am generally putting my shoes on or getting their pants and recommending the best place to get a cab.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Maybe this is the wrong thread to write this, but I felt sympathy for Hillary Clinton at some point in between Iowa and New Hampshire, because it looked like she would be humiliated, repudiated, and sent back to the Senate fairly quickly. Though she probably deserves that for all her antics and nasty tactics and though politics is supposed to be rough and tumble, she was particularly vulnerable.

But now the whole circle-the-wagons unreconstructed gender rationale for her candidacy is really annoying me. I find Steinem's and Jong's arguments unconvincing, sexist, and just plain bad for the country.

I just saw the endorsement of Obama by Kerry on television, thinking it would be a non-event as the blogs and news-sites seem to be treating it, but it was very good. I hated Kerry in 2004, but he gave an awesome speech. I don't know how he seems younger 3 years later. And Obama did not come across as the callow, delusional tyro that the Clintons are trying to depict. I could not help but think that perhaps it is time for the Clintons to go away, and perhaps it is a bit too bad that Hillary Clinton wasn't stomped out in New Hampshire.

Hillary Clinton is right: politics isn't a game. It's about people. That's exactly why she shouldn't be President.

Roger said...

Geez, Mort: I read your first paragraph and was about to call 9-11! Fortunately you recovered. :)

LarsPorsena said...

The thing that needs discussed about the Kerry endorsement of Obama is
how this plays with his ex-running mate ,Edwards. What journo is going to have the onions to get Edwards
reaction? It's squirm time for John Boy.
Ya' just gotta' love it.

Middle Class Guy said...

RE: Kerry Endorsement
Maybe. Maybe not. If Edwards drops out who is he going to endorse?

Middle Class Guy said...

tituslut
I hate you and my dog hates you. I just spewed coffee all over the place, including on the hound. It was a good laugh.

tituslut said...

Kerry is supposed to have a large roladex of names that he can share with Obama so in term of donors this may help Obama.

Other than that, I doubt it will help much.

What would be more interesting is to see if and when Gore is going to endorse someone. That would be a rather big deal.

tituslut said...

middle class guy said spewed-that is a very erotic word to me.

Trooper York said...

John Travolta and Tom Cruise both just endorsed Hillary. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

tituslut said...

Ok, so now news comes that Maureen Dowd wasn't actually at Hilary's victory speech in New Hampshire even though her last editorial was datelined Derry New Hampshire. Instead, Dowd is in Israel. Dowd used quotes from people making it sound like she was actually there. Instead, her assistant was there and she got the quotes from her assistant.

Is this ethical? Thoughts, please. Thanks, fellow republicans. Love you all.

tituslut said...

Althouse, I expect you to post about this Dowd thing. This is right up your alley and you seem to like her.

I like her too, but it looks like she phoned this editorial in from Israel.

The way she wrote the editorial it sounds like she was there taking quotes from people at Hilary's victory rally.

tituslut said...

Hasn't Ann been referred to somewhat of a gay icon also?

As a gay, I do have respect for strong, opinionated, independent women.

I do have to admit I am in love with Madonna.

But the whole Judy, Joan, Betty, Liza thing was before my time.

ZPS said...

A lot of gays that I talk to love Hillary...though she's hardly reached icon status. Then again, a lot of gays are racist and therefore predisposed to hate Obama.

I'm totally serious.

I was in a gay bar on Monday night complaining about Hillary to someone I used to have sex with and he said that she was "better than that fu*king ni@@er Obama!"

Then again, gays don't attach as much meaning to such racial slurs, I think, because they have been called faggots their whole life and feel that they are entitled to say whatever they want...they've been victims too.

Or people like that guy in the bar are really gay racists. Gaycists.

Trooper York said...

The women are really going all out in defending Hillary. Some broad on the Golf Channel just said that the only way to stop Obama is to lynch him in a back alley....what..it wasn't Obama...it was Tiger Woods..aren't they the same person...oh...0k...nevermind.

Revenant said...

Hillary is such a conundrum. There is so much loathing for her, absolute hatred. And yet, more votes have been cast for her than any other candidate except Barack Obama

Where's the conundrum? While Hillary has received the most votes of any individual, roughly 80% of the electorate in Iowa and New Hampshire still voted against her.

What the primary results tell us is that Hillary is liked (or at least tolerated) by at least 20% of the voters in those two states, and hated by up to 80% of them. That leaves plenty of room for Hillary to be widely liked, widely hated, or viewed with indifference.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Must have been at that segregated golf club Bill was a member of in the 1980s.

Revenant said...

The thing that needs discussed about the Kerry endorsement of Obama is how this plays with his ex-running mate, Edwards.

Al Gore gave Joe Lieberman the brush-off in the same manner, back in 2004. It still strikes me as a little weird.

rcocean said...

Tiger Woods and Obama are very similar. Both are tall baby boomers. Both are Westerners. Both are clean and articulate and went to elite colleges. Both have funny first names. Both are loved by white folks. And both are moo-lattes.

OTOH, Obama likes his coffee and his women strong and black, while Tiger likes them blond and sweet.

Middle Class Guy said...

tituslut,
Just don't get any ideas about my dog. I am old and crazy and carry guns. All my friends are old and crazy and carry guns.

Methadras said...

There is no greater gay icon than Judy Garland. Even poor Judy had her issues too. Being branded a gay icon is akin to credibility with homosexuals or heterosexuals how? I suppose on one hand you could make the claim that Obama is an up and coming black icon, but I think that would make Bill Clinton jealous. Either way, this is narcissistic nonsense.

knoxwhirled said...

The women are really going all out in defending Hillary. Some broad on the Golf Channel just said that the only way to stop Obama is to lynch him in a back alley....what..it wasn't Obama...it was Tiger Woods..aren't they the same person...oh...0k...nevermind.


still laughing as I type!

knoxwhirled said...

gay icon = caricature of femininity

I will admit that I'm not crazy about drag queens for this reason.

somefeller said...

rcocean says: "Tiger Woods and Obama are very similar. Both are tall baby boomers..."

Tiger Woods was born in 1975, which doesn't make him a baby boomer by any standard definition of the term. The rest of the comment is at best a failed attempt at wit and at worst vaguely racist humor.

Revenant said...

Huh, I hadn't realized Obama was a boomer.

rcocean said...

"Tiger Woods was born in 1975, which doesn't make him a baby boomer by any standard definition of the term. The rest of the comment is at best a failed attempt at wit and at worst vaguely racist humor."

Sorry for getting Tiger birthday wrong, I forget how young he when started to win.

As for "vaguely racist"; that attack is meaningless. You wish to call my post flat-out "racist" but can't back up the charge, hence the qualifier "vaguely".