September 19, 2007

"It is an iconic turning point and it will be remembered as the moment at which America either fought back or yielded."

The tasing of Andrew Meyer unleashes the mind of Naomi Wolf:
Today's news shows a recognizable shock moment in the annals of a closing society. A very ordinary-looking American student....
Ordinary-looking? What difference does that make? Shouldn't we feel better when what looks like an over-intense police response is applied to the sort of person that we usually suspect gets all the privileges?
It is an iconic turning point...
It's not enough to be just iconic or just a turning point anymore. It's a turning point among turning points. Few turning points reach icon status. But this -- this is that turning point.
... and it will be remembered as the moment at which America either fought back or yielded.
Actually, it won't. (I can see into the future at least as well as Wolf.)
This violence against a student is different from violence against protesters in the anti-war movement of 30 years ago because of the power the president has now to imprison innocent U.S. citizens for months in isolation.
What was the war in 1977? I am getting all mixed up now. So, let's see. Police employed by the University of Florida apply force to a student who physically fights them, and it has something to do with the President's use of detention in the war on terror. Oh, the Wolf mind is aswirl with notions.
...That taser was directed at the body of a young man, but it is we ourselves, and our Constitution, who received the full force of the shock.
Actually, we didn't and it didn't. And Meyer will have the opportunity to sue the police, relying on the Constitution. So the Constitution is still there. And it's not obvious that he'll win.
There is a chapter in my new book, The End of America, entitled "Recast Criticism as 'Espionage' and Dissent as 'Treason,'" that conveys why this moment is the horrific harbinger it is.
So the tasing of Andrew Meyer is a harbinger -- a horrific harbinger -- it predicts something in the future, and your book -- written before the tasing -- itself predicted this prediction? Wolf's fortune-telling powers astound.
I argue that....
Blah blah blah... buy my book.
...strategists using historical models to close down an open society start by using force on 'undesirables,' 'aliens,' 'enemies of the state,' and those considered by mainstream civil society to be untouchable; in other times they were, of course, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals.
Bush is Hitler. If you haven't caught on by now, Andrew Meyer will finally make you see.
Then, once society has been acculturated to that use of force, the 'blurring of the line' begins and the parameters of criminalized speech are extended -- the definition of 'terrorist' expanded -- and the use of force begins to be deployed in HIGHLY VISIBLE, STRATEGIC and VISUALLY SHOCKING WAYS against people that others see and identify with as ordinary citizens.
Oh, yeah. That's happened. That's why they -- who? -- "strategists"? -- or, well, at least the university police -- are moving in on the very ordinary-looking people now.

Long rave about Nazis cut.
We have to understand what time it is. When the state starts to hurt people for asking questions...
Does any rational person think Meyer was tased for "asking questions"?
... we can no longer operate on the leisurely time of a strong democracy -- the 'Oh gosh how awful!' kind of time. It is time to take to the streets. It is time to confront those committing crimes against the Constitution.
It's time to stop using the word "time" in every sentence.
The window has now dropped several precipitous inches and once it is closed there is no opening it without great and sorrowful upheaval.
Yeah, I have a window like that. Try some WD-40.
... I was scared when I wrote The End of America....
Scared and out of my mind.

IN THE COMMENTS: Meade provides the lyrics:
Campus police and Bushhitler coming
We're finally on our own
This summer we felt the horrific harbinger
One tased in Florida

Gotta get down to it
Shutting our microphones down
Shoulda been done long ago

What if you knew him and
found him tased on the ground?
How can you run
when you know it's an iconic turning point?

185 comments:

Meade said...

That visit home did you good.

Adrian said...

Looks like Wolf is getting some great publicity for her new book out of this publicity stunt. I wonder, was she in on it from the first?...

tjl said...

Was Wolf in on it? Let's tase her and find out.

Richard Fagin said...

Ok, Ms. Wolf. One question. What happened on May 4, 1970? No thinking! No reading reference materials! No looking stuff up on the Internet! Don't know? Then shuudup!

Jeezuz

Simon said...

Maybe this is the kind of book LOS has in mind when he exhorts us all to READ A BOOK.

Pogo said...

As a child, Naomi Wolf similarly saw the Quake vs Quisp question as an iconic turning point, along with other important events in her life, like Her First Period and The B in Biology That Should Have Been an A.

John Nash (A Beautiful Mind), a schizophrenic genius, saw patterns in all sorts of things. Some of it was indeed important for mathematics. Alot of the time he was just nuts.

jane said...

Wolf’s piece is an ironic churning of points and it will be forgotten as the moment at which America either fought back its urge to laugh or collectively yawned.

Tim said...

It could only have been better had Meyer been wearing muted earthtones.

Jim said...

I had to wipe coffee off my monitor after reading Wolf describe the student as "ordinary looking." The idea of his temper tantrums being par for the course among college students makes me weep for the future. (So it's a good thing I don't believe he is "ordinary" at all.)

corporate law drudge said...

Kent State this isn't.

Ralph said...

Another wolf baying at the moonbats.
At least she said "different from." I've inherited my mother's irritation with "different than."

Fritz said...

Tin cops and Bush coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
one tased in Florida.

That 70's Show mentality at work. Like the JFK memorabilia auction, my generation can not get enough of the Vietnam era.

P. Rich said...

The Bard said it best:

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Meade said...

Campus police and Bushhitler coming
We're finally on our own
This summer we felt the horrific harbinger
One tased in Florida

Gotta get down to it
Shutting our microphones down
Shoulda been done long ago

What if you knew him and
found him tased on the ground?
How can you run
when you know it's an iconic turning point?

Simon said...

It's just a kid who wanted to get on TV. Fredrick Morse all over again. And an author gloating over the ideally-timed opportunity to plug her book.

The really interesting question is what all these idiots are going to do after Bush has left office. What (or who) will their rage transfer to? Because I think they're more interested in being angry than they are in what that anger's directed at. It's become pathological. If they lose the next election, that one will be declared to have been "stolen" too and they'll just carry on as before.

Meade said...

Ah, Fritz beat me to it.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Today's news shows a recognizable shock moment in the annals of a closing society.

Really? We finally closed down the borders? Oops, missed that.

Does anyone else find it ironic all the Bushitler/Gestapo tactics/ whining over this idiot getting tasered for asking John Kerry uncomfortable questions? Evidently it's completely lost on Wolfie.

Simon said...

And if this incident is evidence of the fascist state at work, any day now, someone's going to claim that the mall cops who took them down for bravely destroying lying enemy propaganda -- they ripped up a copy of The Weekly Standard in Borders -- are part of the Bushitler takeover.

Rational thought has left the buildingg.

Roger said...

Richard: Perhaps Ms Wolf is trying to compare Kent State with the Meyer incident. BTW: who is Naomi Wolf and is she related to Virginia Wolfe?

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

'blurring of the line' begins and the parameters of criminalized speech are extended -- the definition of 'terrorist' expanded -- and the use of force begins to be deployed in HIGHLY VISIBLE, STRATEGIC and VISUALLY SHOCKING WAYS against people that others see and identify with as ordinary citizens.

It seems this is a regular occurrence -- in academia. The Minuteman in New York, the Israeli at Concordia in Montreal, and many other similar incidents. Ask Larry Summers.

This is a classic example of "projection" -- accusing others of being what in reality you yourself already are.

Simon said...

Roger - a long time ago, she was a feminist author who wrote a book that was very important to me, The Beauty Myth, but tragically, she contracted BDS seven years ago, and the disease has taken its toll with Wolf largely descending into incoherency and irrelevance in the time since. The disease - which appears to be progressive and anaplastic in most sufferers - is a dreadful thing, attacking the functions of reason and sense of historical perspective. We should pity her, not mock her.

MadisonMan said...

Is there anything more annoying to read in a piece, or hear in a lecture, than There is a chapter in my book...?

joe said...

So does Wolf favor tasing people who don't look ordinary? Who look extraordinary?
I think she could use a tasing.

AllenS said...

The Eve of A Tasin'
by
Barry McGuire

The western world, it is tasin'

Violence flarin’, Kerry speakin’

You’re old enough to rant, but not for carin’

You don’t believe in Dubya's war,

but what’s that taser you’re totin’

And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’

But you tase me

Over and over and over again, my friend

Ah, don’t do it again bro'

We’re on the eve of a tasin'.

Toby said...

What’s great about this incident is that people can cast the players (Kerry, the student and the police) in whatever roles fit their agenda. For example:

Universities are so eager to protect “mainstream” Democrats from having to choose between leftist conspiracy theorists and political moderates that they’re now using deadly force—tasers can kill, you know—to silence even normal-looking citizens who put these politicians in such a precarious position. And so the left’s stranglehold on the academy grows even tighter.

Alternatively, we could just go with what many people seem to have concluded: the kid was being a jerk; the campus police might have been too aggressive.

Lana said...

Without a doubt, Ann has the best comments section consistently(which makes the trolls ever so annoying).

George said...

Her new book came out in paperback on September 5.

It's #1,894 on Amazon.

That means two people bought it yesterday.

AllenS said...

Where in the hell is Simels? There is some good pop music in this thread to be critiqued.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Alpha males and Beta males have monopolized Naomi Wolf's attention for far too long. I'm glad she's finally considering the plight of the Delta Minus male.

John said...

John Kerry is hardly my favorite public figure but the man deserved to have the chance to speak and the people there deserved the chance to listen to him and ask questions of him without some jackass dominating the microphone. I have had it with the idea that "free speech" and "discourse" means that one side gets to go and shout down and disrupt everyone they don't like. If it wouldn't have made him a matry, I frankly wish the cops would have beat the little bastard senseless as well as tasering him.

Zach said...

But cops occasionally do beat people senseless. That's why they need to handle these situations better. The student was on an adrenaline rush and had some residual struggling. He was not effectively resisting any of the officers, and wasn't a physical threat to anybody. They tasered him instead of waiting for him to calm down. There's no way the situation was improved by shocking him except the momentary convenience of the arresting officers.

I don't agree with Wolf, obviously, but the arresting officers need to face discipline for this. Disrupting a public event -- what's that, a two dollar fine?

Trooper York said...

"Whenever I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver."
Hermann Goering

Roger said...

Simon: aha! wasnt she Al Gore's Alfa Male image fashion advisor in the 2000 election? (I wasnt kidding about who was she and being too lazy to google threw out the question--I do have to start getting out more; maybe reading some of the LOS books and periodicals).

Trooper York said...

"If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library."
Frank Zappa

Der Hahn said...

The saddest thing about people like Wolf (She was born the same year I was.) is that they aren't pining for the glory days of youth, but pining to participate in a recreation of *somebody else's myth of a glorious youth*.

Trooper York said...

"But people's always callin' me crazy, so I'm gonna go with my people."
Bobby Womack

Roger said...

Someone talented needs to do "the tazing of andrew meyer" perhaps to The Edmund Fitzgerald Gordon Lightfoot song. Talent is not my forte, regretable, but I am sure Meade or AlenS have the skills.

Related question: is there any truth the the rumor that Gitmo prisoners are forced to listed to John Kerry speeches with Barry Manilow songs as background?

AllenS said...

Thanks, Roger. I'm not that sure that I have the talent or the skills, but I'll find out when the pop music critic shows up.

george grady said...

Zach,

The student was on an adrenaline rush and had some residual struggling. He was not effectively resisting any of the officers, and wasn't a physical threat to anybody. They tasered him instead of waiting for him to calm down.

How much experience do you actually have in this sort of circumstance? I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I'm not so certain that you're right.

Let me tell you a story. Just before starting first grade this year, I found out that my son would need to retake one of his vaccinations because his earlier ones were too close together by a week and a half, as the regulations require. I had explained this to him before going to the doctor, but he was hopeful the doctor could think of something to get him out of it.

When he found out that he would really need to get the shot, he was absolutely terrified. I've never seen him like that before, but I tried to comfort him for the 25(!) minutes it took the nurse to get there with the syringe. When it came time for the deed, I had to hold him absolutely still or he would have run away. It was incredibly hard to do, and he is only 6. I wouldn't want to immediately second-guess the police officers behavior trying to immobilize a rather large young man who seemed intent on resisting (despite his protestations to the contrary).

(Not that a tasering is anything like a shot. When it came to it, my son was so tense he didn't even notice it when it happened. He's now rather sheepish about the whole thing.)

Justin said...

Zach said...

Disrupting a public event -- what's that, a two dollar fine?

Disrupting a public event will get you removed from the event. That's what the police were trying to do. Resisting a police officer is a much more serious offense which come with much more serious consequences. Once he began resisting, the incident stopped being about disruption. Anything that happened after that was all about resistance.

Zach said...

Well, I'm not a cop, so my direct experience is nil. But the student was flat on his back, with large officers immobilizing every limb. That's a pretty commonly recognized posture of control in wrestling or various martial arts. If the pinners are moderately competent, it's extremely difficult to do anything -- you don't have room to build up momentum and the limbs aren't in natural pushing positions. It's far beyond belief to suggest that the cops couldn't subdue the student in that situation without the taser -- what if the battery was dead?

I'm sure the department has regulations on the use of tasers on arrestees. It would be interesting to see what they say on the subject. But would you like to stand on the witness stand in that civil suit and explain why it was necessary to zap an unarmed, pleading, pinned student?

BJK said...

I think we're all missing the important point about Naomi Wolf's observations here:

Andrew Meyer wouldn't look so ordinary if he would just wear more earth tones.
(Right, Mr. Gore?)

That way, we'd all have someone whose tazing we could get behind (or rally against....I'm still not quite sure about the whole outrage thing).

Roger said...

Zach: I do see your point; however, the texas one size fits all defense "he needed tazering/hanging/ etc" seems to fit nicely.

Zach said...

And excessive use of force is an even more serious offense. Anything that happened after the student was pinned was elective and clearly excessive.

Pogo said...

A lack of force to Mr. Meyer's backside when he was 3 has led inevitably to the application of a more significant force at 21.

Spare the rod and all that.

NSC said...

I don't agree with Wolf, obviously, but the arresting officers need to face discipline for this. Disrupting a public event -- what's that, a two dollar fine?

He was resisting arrest - the penalty for which is much more than a two dollar fine.

I fail to see how the cops overreacted. In fact, the UNDERREACTED in that they did not take firm enough control of him in the beginning by laying his ass out, cuffing him, and then carrying him out like a stuffed pig on a pole. I hate to point out the obvious but a taser is a "less than lethal weapon" that was developed and is used to protect the subject and the officers from serious harm. Unless you repeatedly - and I mean more than a shock or two or three - zap the guy it is NOT torture and it certainly is better than the old way of using batons. It's also safer and less of a problem than using pepper spray.

This guy was not abused. Yeah, the campus police need some more training but to say their was excessive force here is simly nonsense. The proof - the guy walked in and out of jail with no injuries - even minor ones.

Trooper York said...

F**k tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young n***a got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

F**k that sh*t, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthaf**ka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

F***in with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every n***a is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they f**s or what
Search a n***a down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

(just keepin'it real for my hommies)

Luckyoldson said...

Simon said..."Maybe this is the kind of book LOS has in mind when he exhorts us all to READ A BOOK."

It may be.

I read books by many different authors and you can bet your little weasel ass I don't make the decision on whether to read or not read a book...based on an Ann Althouse summation, critique or review. (And especially when it consists of clipped passages of her choosing.)

And by the way, let's make something clear; when I recommend reading a book, newspaper or periodicals, it's generally related to the comments related to a specific topic at hand.

Some of the comments I see here, such as Fen continuing to tell anybody who will listen, that we found WMD in Iraq, or Sloan telling people that any form of assistance for those less fortunate is nothing more than "socialism"...it makes me believe they're not reading enough.

If you personally don't think people should be reading books, etc...that's your prerogative, but I feel it makes for a more useful discussion when one is better informed.

*Oh, and as much as I appreciate you bringing me into the discussion, I find it a tad obsessive.

Simon said...

And the emmy for the most overwrought silliness in reacting to a jibe goes to... LOS!

Luckyoldson said...

Simon,
Would you like for me to send you a picture?

Roger said...

The American Librarian Society's coveted Reader of the Week" award is presented to:

Luckyoldson!

(If the drivel you write is the hallmark of your reading skills, you better move past the Dick and Jane series soon. You are giving literacy a bad name.)

*Duh*

Luckyoldson said...

Roger,
Well, if anyone knows "drivel," it would be you.

What's with you idiots? Why are you soooooooooooooo obsessed with little ol' me?

Do you want a picture, too?

Luckyoldson said...

Simon,
Isn't one of your "favorite" books ...The Beauty Myth?

Looks like this new book "is the kind of book Simon has in mind"...?

What a weasel.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Anything that happened after the student was pinned was elective and clearly excessive.

I disagree. While it is true that the student was unable to harm the police while pinned, he was still disrupting the event. The only way to restore order was to remove him from the room. It is impossible to do that while he is pinned.

Tasers are useful not because they are painful, but because they temporarily interfere with voluntary muscle control. The use of the taser made it possible for the police to cuff the student during the few seconds that he was unable to resist. The student would have been more likely to suffer an injury had they chosen to physically force his arms behind his back.

The force was not excessive, merely effective.

cyrus pinkerton said...

It's a big mistake to use WD-40 on windows.

dix said...

In retrospect all the police needed to do to restrain him was turn the cameras off.

The right to free speech is not the same as the right to a microphone. If it were, I demand time on all networks tonight. I have some things to get off my chest.

Luckyoldson said...

At one time, I owned a nigh club and whenever we had to throw someone out, 99% of the time a few of us would grab the guy, move him out the door and that was that.

Why all of the security people couldn't get this kid out the door in similar fashion is ridiculous.

Pick his ass up, carry him to the door...and out he goes.

They should fire the lot.

Roger said...

Lucky: I usually refrain from personal insults and interacting with trolls, but sometimes you just make it too easy and it's impossible to resist. I do regret having fallen off the "do not respond to trolls" wagon, and will be good until the next time I backslide.

If you want a book to read try this one: "Military Unions: U.S. Trends and Issues." It was also reviewed in the journal Foreign Affairs, so you can get credit for both a book and a periodical.

Have a nice day.

Luckyoldson said...

Sorry, a typo...and before Simon or Roger blow their rocks over it..."night club."

Tibore said...

Hehe... the guys at Screw Loose Change just pointed out something: When Right Wing News and the Daily Kos agree on a stance, that's saying something:

RWN:
"So, he cut in line, kept asking question after question, resisted police when they tried to shoo him out (and yes, I do think it was appropriate for security to move him on since his mike had been cut off), kept resisting and making a ridiculous scene, kept fighting after they decided to arrest him, kept on struggling even after they pulled out the taser, and then finally got tased."

Kos poster:
"It's a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn't take it. He probably didn't pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave."

Link

Simon said...

Luckyoldson said...
"Simon, Isn't one of your 'favorite' books ...The Beauty Myth?"

Yes, and I acknowledged that in my 8:36 AM comment. Just because she wrote one good book on one particular subject, that doesn't mean that other books she writes will be good, a fortiori when on a completely different subject.

"Looks like this new book 'is the kind of book Simon has in mind'...?>"

What does this mean? The kind of book I have in mind for what?

Tibore said...

Ooooof!...

As one of the commenters at SLC said:

"If you have to stage your own police state, you're not actually living in one."

Luckyoldson said...

Simon says: "Just because she wrote one good book..."

Really.

Just ONE GOOD BOOK?

Or do you mean one book YOU liked?

As for your question: "What does this mean? The kind of book I have in mind for what?"

That was a "jibe."

cf said...

I liked her better when she stuck to earth tone advice.

But consider what a great country this is. Candidates like Gore have to spend all their time gathering up funny money to engage pinhead consultants like Wolf.

Simon said...

Luckyoldson said...
"Simon says: 'Just because she wrote one good book...' Really. Just ONE GOOD BOOK? Or do you mean one book YOU liked?"

I didn't say that Wolf had only written one good book, I said that just because an author has written a good book ["a" is the singular indefinite article, so synonymous here with "one"], it doesn't necessarily follow that anything else they write will be any good. Having clarified what I wasn't saying, before, I will say that I found Misconceptions very readable and interesting, I seem to remember not finding Fire with Fire much good (it's been a decade since I read it, though, so I'd hate to be too emphatic on the point) and I've not read her other books.


"As for your question: 'What does this mean? The kind of book I have in mind for what?' That was a 'jibe.'"

No it wasn't. A jibe necessarily makes some kind of sense. It might be a jibe if it had a coherent point, but so far as I can tell, it didn't. Humor me: what's the point you're trying to make?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Just ONE GOOD BOOK?

Or do you mean one book YOU liked?


Generally that is how people define what they view as a good book. Books that I don't like tend to get a thumbs down from me.

Save the critically acclaimed spiel as well. Critics whether they be for books, movies, food etc are as irrelevant to me as the man on the moon. As the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and a critic's take on a book/movie should have no more value than mine.

jane said...

I like the Dick and Jane series. And what's a periodical?

vnjagvet said...

From the pen of Camille Paglia (apologies to Ann) whose opinion of Naomi Wolf is quoted on the Wiki article linked by der Hahn at 9:30:

If you want to see what's wrong with Ivy League education, look at The Beauty Myth, that book by Naomi Wolf. This is a woman who graduated from Yale magna cum laude, is a Rhodes scholar, and cannot write a coherent paragraph. This is a woman who cannot do historical analysis, and she is a Rhodes scholar? If you want to see the damage done to intelligent women today in the Ivy League, look at that book. It's a scandal. Naomi Wolf is an intelligent woman. She has been ill-served by her education. But if you read Lacan, this is the result. Your brain turns to pudding! She has a case to make. She cannot make it. She's full of paranoid fantasies about the world. Her education was completely removed from reality.

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Without order, there is chaos.

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Without reality, there is no order.

Eyes On The Ball News said...

I am glad Kerry has finally joined us as part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Now if we can only move forward with our plan to tase "ordinary-looking" people everywhere and not just the nutjobs!

Inspektor Friedrich said...

We must impose reality to prevent chaos.

Trooper York said...

"Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street.”
Joseph Goebbels

Dewave said...

The student was angling for a tasing anyway.

He could have remained calm and polite, and not deliberately hijacked the forum so that he had to be asked to leave.

He could have agreed to go when asked to leave, instead of insisting that he stay.

When the police stepped in to escort him out, he could have gone quietly, instead of violently struggling with the police and screaming and yelling.

If you're fighting police, don't complain when you get tased after numerous warnings.

Dewave said...

He was not effectively resisting any of the officers, and wasn't a physical threat to anybody.

Nonsense. If you are physically fighting with officers, and charging around screaming and yelling in a crowded auditorium, you are by definition a physical threat.

They tasered him instead of waiting for him to calm down.

The idea that this deranged guy was going to 'calm down' on his own is ludicrous. How long should they have waited? 15 minutes? An hour? And him lying there screaming and yelling his head off the whole time?

There's no way the situation was improved by shocking him except the momentary convenience of the arresting officers.

Also nonsense. They tased the struggling, student, handcuffed him, and led him from the building so the discussion could resume.

Shocking him enabled them to cuff him, stand him up, and then escort him from the building, which was the goal, rather than have to lay in a pile on the floor and struggle with him some more.

I suppose instead of tasing him they could have beaten him with fists or billy clubs or something to get him under the necessary degree of control to escort him out, but I think I prefer the less violent way.

jeff said...

These guys are campus security. And while I am sure they consider themselves to be professional police officers, they don't have the same training and certainly have the same experience in physical altercations. Your average bouncer could have booted this guy without to much trouble, but not on his first day on the job. And if this guy was flaying away as the bouncer took him outside, the bouncer would put him in a headlock or twist a arm up his back. I don't know if the cops are even allowed the headlock anymore, and as I had my shoulder dislocated in just those circumstances I would rather be tasered myself.

crypticguise said...

Student Andrew Meyer is a nut job as any inquiry into his background will indicate. It was his intention to create a scene and he had a video photographer in place to record his 15 minutes of fame.

The security personnel who tased poor Andrew probably wouldn't have had to resort to it if they had been large males rather than smallish females. It's a shame that no one punched Andrew flush in the face and broke his nose and knocked out a couple of his front teeth.

THAT would have been a perfect response to his planned "rant".

We are much to civilized towards uncivilized behavior.

As far as Ms. Wolf is concerned I'd like to know who really pays attention to her sillines?

Too Cool for School said...

I share the observation that young people today are conformists, by and large. Look around. We've got a hugely unpopular war, but there's little if any peace movement. Rock and roll is dead. (Yes, that's a fact.) Unlike Wolf, I don't blame the conservative establishment though. I blame material wealth. Seriously, I do. Look at how big houses and cars are. It's obscene. It's like the soul of our country is being snuffed out by consumerism, but it's happening slowly so no one notices. What would Kurt Cobain's fate be if he grew up in the last decade? Playing gameboy, and role playing games on the internet? Popping antidepressants?

Hoosier Daddy said...

This is a woman who cannot do historical analysis, and she is a Rhodes scholar?

Well she's not an exception either. All of the 9/11-Reichstag comparisons, Gitmo=gulag rhetoric is simply that. Anyone who has any knowledge of history that is not completely distorted would know that Bush has not even come close to restricting civil liberties in any way shape or form close to what FDR did 60 years ago. FDR authorized unwarranted wiretaps before we even were at war yet he is lauded by liberals. Why or do they even have a clue?

Comparisons of Gitmn to the gulags or concentration camps is not just a ridculous comparison but offensive and a disgrace to the memories of millions who died there. The problem is that this kind of tripe is echoed by history professors all over acadamia and its simply accepted as truth by kids who to paraphrase LOS probably never cracked a book other than an X-Box game guide.

Its like many who revere JFK yet by the very standards that the left judges people today, JFK would be a neo-con of the highest order so that only demonstrates a complete ignorance of the historical record and a willingness to believe in the myth.

P. D. "Bo" Steele said...

I wholly disagree.

jeff said...

"Look at how big houses and cars are. It's obscene."

Why? One of the biggest houses on one of the biggest lots here in town belongs to the CEO of a privately owned company here in town. It employees thousands of people locally and has offices world wide. Why should I complain about the size of his house or his cars? He can clearly afford them. He isn't taking away house or space from any other people. Not only does him company employ thousands of people, but someone had to build his house, someone has to take care of the yard, someone has to sell and maintain the cars. When he provides a living for so many people, why is it obscene that he and his family are not living in a one room efficiency apartment and taking the bus everywhere?

Luckyoldson said...

Simon says: "I didn't say that Wolf had only written one good book, I said that just because an author has written a good book ["a" is the singular indefinite article, so synonymous here with "one"]

Here's your quote: "Just because she wrote one good book on one particular subject..."

Do you see an "a" in there somewhere??

Weasel.

Dave said...

Am I the only one that saw the Special Report piece on Meyer?

He's a guy who does publicity stunts. That's his schtick. He even has a website, with traffic and ad revenue driven by his hijinks.

http://theandrewmeyer.com/

Naomi Wolf is a gullible fool tricked by a professional provocateur.

Jim Howard said...

They tasered him instead of waiting for him to calm down. There's no way the situation was improved by shocking him except the momentary convenience of the arresting officers.

Do you not see that the officers were acting in defense of the audience and themselves? Would you have them wait until the criminal landed a kick into a groin or windpipe?

Please describe how much physical abuse an officer should be expected to take? Do you think police officers should be used as human punching bags?

I don't agree with Wolf, obviously, but the arresting officers need to face discipline for this. Disrupting a public event -- what's that, a two dollar fine?

And assaulting a police officer is a felony. The officers need medals.

I expect that given the total lack of courage present in academia today when faced with left-wing violence I expect the officers will be disiplined, but that will be very, very, very wrong.

Palladian said...

Yeah, man, it's the material wealth, man. No one's keepin' it real no more, man. It's like... plastic. Yeah, man, plastic.

Yurts and recumbent bicycles for everyone, man, that's what we need.

---

"Rock & roll" is dead because it played itself out. There's only so much that people can do with 2 guitars, bass, drums, and mediocre, adolescent minds. Get a haircut and learn harmony and counterpoint.

And while I agree that we need motivated achievers to make our society run, it's human nature to hate people that are wealthier than you. Life is a competition. The problem arises when the powers that be decide to use the compulsion of violence and imprisonment to "take things away from you on behalf of the common good".

Luckyoldson said...

Roger,
I appreciate your book recommendation, but "Military Unions: U.S. Trends and Issues" was written in 1977 and I don't think it would fare well in today's "War On Terror" situation.

Why not read drag yourself into the current decade and read:

1. The Occupation of Iraq: Winning the War, Losing the Peace

2. Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq

3. The Modern History of Iraq

4. Inventing Iraq: The Failure of Nation Building and a History Denied

Luckyoldson said...

hoosier says: "As the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and a critic's take on a book/movie should have no more value than mine."

Exactly.

And that's why, regardless of what Ann the book critic has to say, it's subjective, and I'll take my chances with those who don't have an ax to grind.

Luckyoldson said...

Janes asks: "...what's a periodical?"

Well, Time, Newsweek, etc.

Pick one up...it will be a new experience for you.

jeff said...

"1. The Occupation of Iraq: Winning the War, Losing the Peace

2. Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq

3. The Modern History of Iraq

4. Inventing Iraq: The Failure of Nation Building and a History Denied"

The interesting thing will be how well these books stand the test of time. I'm guessing number 3 will hold up. Will the others? What will historians opinion of these books be 20-30 years from now? Accurate, accurate for the time, or misinformed? Check back with me in 2037. Make sure you knock loudly. I will be 76 years old then. I

jane said...

LOL, LOS.

Luckyoldson said...

Hoosier says: "Its like many who revere JFK yet by the very standards that the left judges people today, JFK would be a neo-con of the highest order so that only demonstrates a complete ignorance of the historical record and a willingness to believe in the myth."

First of all, I don't think JFK would be viewed today as a "neocon."

And why do you think it's only the "left" who respects and admires JFK?

P.S. Dave said: "Naomi Wolf is a gullible fool tricked by a professional provocateur."

Really? Somebody paid the kid to do this?

Palladian said...

"Why not read drag yourself into the current decade and read:

1. The Occupation of Iraq: Winning the War, Losing the Peace

2. Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq

3. The Modern History of Iraq

4. Inventing Iraq: The Failure of Nation Building and a History Denied"

Yes, you should definitely get those! At the Strand here in New York, you can get all those and more in the anti-Bush book bin for 3 dollars a pound. Hardcover! So why waste all that money on a single good book when you can have lots more impressive shelf-filler for so much less? Strip off the dust jackets and pretend they're the complete works of Shakespeare, or Samuel Pepys diary, or Dryden's oeuvre. And having a lot of books around your head may make you smarter by osmosis!

Luckyoldson said...

jane: Hey, you're the one who asked.

I merely answered.

LOL.

Too Cool for School said...

Palladian, I'm not suggesting redistribution of wealth will solve society's ills. I believe in the free market economy. I'm just observing a problem, and hypothesizing its cause.

Jeff, I'm not suggesting that wealthy individuals don't deserve to be wealthy. Again, I believe in the principles of a free market economy, including self-interest. As a matter of taste, however, I do think that the big cars, or SUVs (think: Escalade), and the big houses are gauche. But maybe that's because I live in new england, where old money are inconspicuous wealth are the ethic.

Anyway, my posts are off topic at this point, so I'll stop.

SteveR said...

LOS hoosier says: "As the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and a critic's take on a book/movie should have no more value than mine."

Exactly.

And that's why, regardless of what Ann the book critic has to say, it's subjective, and I'll take my chances with those who don't have an ax to grind.


axes to grind are like assholes

Seneca the Younger said...

Ordinary-looking? What difference does that make?

Obviously, he needs to wear more earth tones.

Luckyoldson said...

Palladian,
Once again, you expose yourself as a frigging moron.

There are plenty of books out there relating to Iraq, its history, the invasion and aftermath and what we did right and wrong.

They aren't ALL "anti-Bush" books...although, based on what we've seen over the past 4 years it's rather difficult to admire the guy for what he's created. (The History of Iraq...anti-Bush?)

Most of the books I've read are written by people who were actually there or have done extensive research...unlike twerps like yourself who spends their day sitting on their ass trying to come up with ways to defend little Bushie and his policies.

Palladian said...

"As a matter of taste, however, I do think that the big cars, or SUVs (think: Escalade), and the big houses are gauche"

Well, I agree with you in most cases, though it does depend on the house and the car. Some of the best houses of history are a hell of a lot bigger than the biggest McMansion.

And don't feel bad about being off-topic. As you can see from Ann's summary of Wolf, you can drag anything in and make it relevant, as long as you can tie it all back to Bush.

Ernst Blofeld said...

Some police officers tell me that tasing is pretty low on the use of force continum. It's lower than pepper spray, and way lower than whacking him on the head with a stick so you can cuff him and get him out of there.

Luckyoldson said...

Seneca the Younger said..."...he needs to wear more earth tones."

You're still on that jag?

Good Lord...what was it...7 years ago?

*Oh, and as for people providing guidance, I'll take Wolfe and her wardrobe suggestions over Cheney, Gonzales, Rove, Rummy, Yoo, etc. and their "candy and flowers" dream world any day of the week.

knoxwhirled said...

Naomi needs to WAY dial-back the melodrama... she reads like a dang telenovela.

Luckyoldson said...

Sorry, "Wolf."

Before Simon and Roger have a spelling fit.

jeff said...

"As a matter of taste, however, I do think that the big cars, or SUVs (think: Escalade), and the big houses are gauche"

I would (generally) agree with you on that, I just don't think people spending their own money on nonsense is obscene. A choice different than my own, perhaps. I don't have a big SUV because of gas prices and parking difficulties. OTOH, if I had a few kids, that SUV might start looking good. It wouldn't be a escalade though. Or a Navigator.

JimMtnViewCa said...

"This is a classic example of 'projection' -- accusing others of being what in reality you yourself already are."
I will be so interested to see what Ms Wolf writes once "Hitlery" gets into power. I suspect the crackdown on the VRWC will make everything done by the Bush Admin pale into insignificance.

Hoosier Daddy said...

First of all, I don't think JFK would be viewed today as a "neocon."

Really? A anti-communist hawk who brought us to the brink of nuclear war, sent in the first of thousands of combat troops to Vietnam (some might argue our first attempt at nation building) and more thereafter, gave the wink and nod for Diem's assasination and passed the biggest tax cut in American history at that time?

You think he would run as a Democrat today? Better yet, do you honestly think the net-roots would support him?

And why do you think it's only the "left" who respects and admires JFK?

I don't believe my post said 'only the left'. I said many which includes many on the left who see him as one of the shining lights of the Democratic party. Actually you will probably find few conservatives today that have much issue with him other than he bungled the Bay of Pigs. The thing is, as a conservative I respect the man for what he did stand for yet point out Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Diem, the tax cuts to a leftist and it simply doesn't mix with thier version of the Prince of Camelot.

As for your list of books, lets see how they hold up say, a decade from now. It may turn out Roger's recommendation stays more relevant than yours. I think too many people are busy writing the history before it's happened.

Dave S. said...

Don't fisk me, bro!

Seven Machos said...

Palladian -- You exposed moron. You twerp on your ass spending your whole day writing posts on a comment thread.

Too Cool for School said...

There's a word for those cars: suburbanescaladevolvomobile. I didn't invent that btw.

Oh, and Bush sucks. See, I'm getting the hang of it.

Luckyoldson said...

Hoosier says: "As for your list of books, lets see how they hold up say, a decade from now."

Of course. (If we're still here.)

But any number of current books, along with the books I mention, weren't written by "anti-Bush" people. Many of the books we're seeing are written by people who were part of the administration, long time supporters of Bush and are still conservatives.

Luckyoldson said...

SEVEN NACHOS IS HERE!!!!

This guy is in love with me. (I'm blushing.)

Nary a single original posting, just silly comments directed at or about little ol' me.

I've said it before, will say it again: Seven, you need to up the meds...whatever you're taking right now...isn't working.

Tully said...

Some police officers tell me that tasing is pretty low on the use of force continum. It's lower than pepper spray, and way lower than whacking him on the head with a stick so you can cuff him and get him out of there.

Depends on the department. Some rank it farther up, mostly due to liability and abuse concerns. They don't want it to be TOO common. In this instance, the officers acted properly and used just the amount of force required to get him cuffed and outta there.

BTW, in most places campus police are indeed commissioned police officers, and thus subject to the same state training requirements of any police officer. Some states have higher training standards than others, of course. Assuming a campus LEO is not a "real" officer is a path to felony charges--the law will not distinguish between campus and "regular" PD.

SGT Ted said...

As usualy, the local ornery souse shows up to urinate on the floor and curse at everyone and call them stupid.

Before tazers, this guy would have received a classic Police beatdown prior to the cuffs going on. He would have deserved it too.

jeff said...

"BTW, in most places campus police are indeed commissioned police officers, and thus subject to the same state training requirements of any police officer"

Yes, totally correct. However, the larger cities generally train their officers at a higher level than state requirements. The campus police are trained at the level of a small town policeman, just enough to meet state requirments. Not a private security officer, but not at the level of a large police department either.

slhamlet said...

In *The Beauty Myth*, Wolf says she personally became bulimic after a kid in her elementary/junior high class poked her belly and said, "Watch it, Wolf!" In the book, for some reason, she lists the kid by name (nothing like waiting until your 20s and using a major publisher to get revenge on a school yard comment.), I'm fairly sure I'm remembering the details right-- someone with a copy can check, it's an opening paragraph in one of the chapters.

In any case, what's really striking is this: Naomi Wolf admits to putting herself in dire, life- debilitating straits because one kid did one stupid thing to her which is not even clear in its intent. (Did he poke her because he thought she was fat, or just because he was a jackass? Or even maybe he had a crush on her, and was expressing it as boys often do?) So not from a lifetime of vicious mockery, pervasive, regular teasing about her weight by many people or people closest to her, but from one, apparently isolated instance, she quite literally almost killed herself.

All that in mind, you can make more sense of her latest silly ass essay.

Luckyoldson said...

SGT Ted: I'm sorry, Dude, but right now I have my hands full with Seven Nachos. (And what's with the "urination" thing? Prostate problems?)

Oh, and I have the feeling SN may be quite possessive...and if he has a temper...with the meds and all...I think you should be careful.

*But thanks for the attention.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Of course. (If we're still here.)

Well unless the Islamocrazies get a few nukes, I'd say its a good chance I will be anyway.

But any number of current books, along with the books I mention, weren't written by "anti-Bush" people.

I don't doubt that they were and I probably am not in that much disagreement with them. I'll be the first to say that I think the post-war occupation and insurgency have been handled poorly but that doesn't mean its irreversible.

Arguing whether we should be there or not is just pointless at this stage. Whether one was for it or against it, the common goal should simply be to win it. When we have troops in harms way, I think it is simply disgraceful that so many elected officials simply have invested in defeat soely for the reason that they see it as politically expedient.

As you are fond of saying read more, do some reading on Korea and what a complete clusterfu** that was early on, how unpopular that war was and how despised Truman was over it yet he saw it through even thought it destroyed him politically and now South Korea is a model democratic society in a region where such governments are the exception rather than the rule.

Now I am not making a Korea/Iraq analogy in the strictest sense but 5-10 years after the armistice, occupation and subsequent repressive governments which ran that place, an author could make a solid argument that the Korean war was a failure yet it didn't turn out that way.

knoxwhirled said...

LOS,

you have made something like 20 comments in this *one* thread--a number of them are merely you going on about other commenters being fixated on you. I would submit that you are the one who's obsessed with you.

Peter said...

I understand that the cops had one cuff on him when he broke free and started flailing around again. If so, that cuff flying around is a really dangerous weapon. There isn't a day goes by that somewhere a bluesuit gets a few teeth knocked out, a broken jaw, I knew one guy that lost an eye that way.

Now I have my own problems with how this was handled. Somebody mentioned how a bouncer could have handled this bozo without tazing him. How many small, female bouncers do you see? There is something to be said for having the LEO standing there with his badge at eye level to the bozo. Not there should not be female officers, just partner them with the big guy.

Roger said...

The single author whose work is most useful in understanding events in the Middle East is Bernard Lewis. Ibn Khaldun's Muqadimma is a timeless classic which takes a good look at tribalism (of course, it was written in the early 14th century which is why it is a classic)

Luckyoldson said...

knoxwhirled,
Uh, it is a discussion thread, is it not?

Most of my comments are in response to others who have specifically directed their comments at ME.

As for being obsessed with myself, no...but I will respond to derogatory comments about me.

*Is this all you have to say or are you merely here to preach at me?

Seven Machos said...

Bernard Lewis is, without question, brilliant. Sadly, since he doesn't hate Bush and sees the world in a big-picture way, he doesn't get a ton of press. He just quietly influences and sells tons of books.

Unlike Naomi Wolf, who loudly protests and sells no books.

Seven Machos said...

My comments were aimed at Palladian, the exposed moronic twerp on his ass.

Luckyoldson said...

roger,
I have no problem with historical works relating to Iraq, but the republic of "Iraq" is only about 50 years old and things have changed dramatically during that period of time.

If Bush was as interested in the history of Iraq as you are...we wouldn't be in this situation.

Luckyoldson said...

Seven Machos said..."Bernard Lewis is, without question, brilliant. Sadly, since he doesn't hate Bush and sees the world in a big-picture way, he doesn't get a ton of press."

I didn't realize Roger or my comments related to getting "a ton of press" or whether the author "sells tons of books." And Lewis has been writing about the Mideast/Religion for decades and much of what he has to say is certainly relevant to our current situation, but there are contrary viewpoints regarding the situation we find ourselves in right now.

There are plenty of "experts" who write about the Miseast; some agree with Bush, some don't, and some could care less about Bush.

Trying to frame all of the books I mention as anti-Bush is bullshit.

Maybe if you were to actually read a few of the books...??

jeff said...

"Somebody mentioned how a bouncer could have handled this bozo without tazing him. How many small, female bouncers do you see?"


Yes, I mentioned that, my point being that a bouncer quickly gets experience in handling uncooperative people while campus police probably don't. However, your point about the small female bouncers is valid also. Many fights just don't start when the cops are staring down at the suspect instead of the other way around.

Seven Machos said...

From Althouse's original post: I argue that....Blah blah blah... buy my book.

AllenS said...

A periodical is a record that you keep when you are practicing birth control using the rhythm method.

Luckyoldson said...

seven says: "Unlike Naomi Wolf, who loudly protests and sells no books."

I have no idea what you base this on.

And...for your edification: Wolf graduated from Yale, is a Rhodes Scholar, published her first book at the age of 28 and continues to a literary force.

Why not post your extensive resume so we can compare?

Seven Machos said...

Jeff -- At the end of the day, people have respect for bouncers. There's a quiet authority there. People understand that bouncers are in the bar to keep order and otherwise do a nasty job.

People don't respect campus security because, very often, campus security is engaged in what amounts to trivia.

You'll notice also that an average group of bouncers would easily kick the crap out of an average group of campus security guards. Possibly there is a correlation.

This is all an aside. I support what the police did in this instance.

Seven Machos said...

Let's see Palladian's resume. That twerp. I bet it involves a lot of ass-sitting.

Luckyoldson said...

AllenS said..."A periodical is a record that you keep when you are practicing birth control using the rhythm method."

What if you're reading Newsweek during the act?

Luckyoldson said...

Seven Nachos said..."Let's see Palladian's resume."

No...let's see YOUR resume.

You're the one who apparently thinks Naomi Wolf is nothing more than a Bush hater.

C'mon...put up or...shut up.

M. Simon said...

John fn Kerry was there and did nothing to stop it.

I never knew he was a Bush crony.

Seven Machos said...

The End of America: A Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot (Paperback)...Book Description
In a stunning indictment of the Bush administration and Congress, best-selling author Naomi Wolf lays out her case for saving American democracy.

Luckyoldson said...

The Occupation of Iraq: Winning the War, Losing the Peace

Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq

The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End

Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers

The Final Move Beyond Iraq: The Final Solution While the World Sleeps

Iraq and the Lessons of Vietnam: Or, How Not to Learn From the Past

reader_iam said...

Truly, this has NOTHING to do with the poster in whose comment it appears (that's irrelevant), and I upfront concede my own public propensity towards typos in blog comments, and therefore can't and won't criticize that, but:

Anyone else love the accidental "Miseast" for "Mideast" as I do? I may borrow that one, and then start rhyming.

jeff said...

"This is all an aside. I support what the police did in this instance."

Sure. So do I. I was just pointing out that campus police, through no fault of their own, just don't have the experience to take down someone causing a fuss. Especially knowing that it's all being filmed and witnessed and second guessed by a few thousand people.

Revenant said...

The guy was wrestling a bunch of police. Anyone stupid enough to do that deserves to get tased.

When the police are trying to handcuff you, LET THEM DO IT. Fighting back never, ever, EVER works out in your favor. If you think you're being unfairly arrested, get a lawyer and take them on in court. Taking them on using physical force, like this nutcase did, never does anything but earn you a beating.

Andrew Graff said...

Rommel&P"The Occupation of Iraq: Winning the War, Losing the Peace

Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq

The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End

Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers

The Final Move Beyond Iraq: The Final Solution While the World Sleeps

Iraq and the Lessons of Vietnam: Or, How Not to Learn From the Past"

Do you know what all of those books have in common besides the obvious?

Catchy tag lines. Somehow I expect there content is of a similar character. The problem with such books, is that a non-fictional account is worthless if you have cause not to trust the author. In this case, the cause is obvious. He's obviously packaging and selling you something. He's not going to want to disappoint the customer.

Rush Limbaugh has the right of this. He readily admits that he's an entertainer that sales validation to the consumer. The books mentioned strike me as being the paper version of the same thing.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I have no problem with historical works relating to Iraq, but the republic of "Iraq" is only about 50 years old and things have changed dramatically during that period of time.

Actually Iraq was created in 1921 and granted independence by the Brits in 1932 so as a nation closer to 90 than 50. In terms of it being called a republic, well there used to be a lot of African nations called the Democratic Republic of (insert nation here) and none were Democratic or a republic.

Actually a most excellent book on why the Middle East is such a complete mess, I highly recommend A Peace to End All Peace by David Fromkin. It's a chewy read but puts to bed a lot of the garbage out there that its all the fault of the US and Jooos.

Seven Machos said...

The Occupation: Sitting and Posting Comment Threads All Day

Fiasco: The Disastrously Failed Hillarycare Nightmare

The End of Iraq: How America Kicked Some Ass and Turned a Corrupt Dictatorship into a Reasonably Well-Run State

Iraq for Sale: Selling Books about How Much I Don't Like the Iraq War: a Memoir

The Final Move Beyond Iraq: Getting Rid of the Iranian Theocracy and a Bunch of Other Crap-Ass Regimes Once and for All

Iraq and the Lessons of Vietnam: Or, Why I Won't Grow Up, or How I Choose to See Everything through the Prism of Minor Skirmish in Southeast Asia that Happened 40 Years Ago

ricpic said...

It should be a turning point in the hiring of 5'2'' female cops. But that would be...SEXIST!!! And we can't have sexist. Better unintimidated thugs she can't handle or trapped in a burning building she can't carry you out of than to stop hiring fem cops and firefighters. The agenda must go forward, devil take the consequences.

Seven Machos said...

Ricpic -- This really isn't a gender issue. People who are short and not very strong shouldn't be police officers.

The other day, a friend of mine pointed out that he thought my neighborhood was the worst non-white neighborhood in Chicago. I said that was fine, but that he really ought to say the worst non-poor neighborhood in Chicago. He agreed that was a better way to say the same basic thing.

People who believe in classical liberal values do themselves a real disservice when casting socioeconomic issues in gender or race terms that don't need to be cast that way, and when the underlying issues aren't about race or gender. Let the lefties be the sexists and the racists.

blake said...

This thread was more fun when it was about riffing on anti-war songs.

Something's happening here,
What it is, ain't exactly clear,
There's a man with a taser over there,
And he's telling me it's time to share.
I think it's time we stop, children,
What's that sound?
Andrew Myer's going down....

Pogo said...

Inherit the Breaking Wind: Something Smells in Iraq by Gen. Wesley Flatus

Iraq and Iroll: Pasty-faced English Musicians and their Hollywood Wives Against the War by Coldhead Radioplay

The Crucifixion Was an Inside Job by Father Kevin Barrett

Recast Criticism as 'Crullers' and Dissent as 'Doughnuts' by Naomi Wolfitdown

Seven Machos said...

Wasn't the crucifixion an inside job?

Pogo said...

Dang. That was too easy.

garage mahal said...

Wow, conservative humor is SO funny! Takes and jokes on Bushitler, Hitlery, Gitmo, tasering people, earth tones, BDS. It's all here! Hard to believe you guys aren't songwriters or comedians in real life.

Pogo said...

Yer right, garage.
Precisely why no one pays me for this. Good call! I stand officially chastened.

ron st.amant said...

Ahh, the great moments of American martyrdom...

John Brown making the 'gallows as glorious as the cross'...Nathan Hale regretting he had only one life to give for his country...Andrew Meyer 'don't taser me bro'

pardon me...I promised myself I wouldn't cry...

Luckyoldson said...

Hoosier Daddy said..."Actually Iraq was created in 1921 and granted independence by the Brits in 1932 so as a nation closer to 90 than 50."

*On July 14th, 1958 (marked as Iraq ’s first Independence Day), a coup lead by General Abdul Karim Qasim­ Iraq ’s self-proclaimed “only leader”­resulted in the dissolution of the “Kingdom” of Iraq .

The royal family was assassinated, and the “ Republic of Iraq ” was born­a development that took Western powers by surprise.

Luckyoldson said...

seven nachos,
Don't quit your day job...when you get one.

jane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jane said...

Geo Mahal, we couldn’t possibly come up with humor anywhere near as clever as Dem wordplay.

"Bushitler," "Chimpbush-zionistpuppet-halliburtonhalitosis-wildhickokcheney-christofascistprobablygaynazis" and "General Betray Us" just slay.

knoxwhirled said...

garage, forget the jokes.

What you guys take *seriously* is what's truly pathetic.

SMGalbraith said...

Geez, folks have been claiming for six years now that the "Fascists are coming, the Fascists are coming".

For an ideology that made the trains run on time, they sure are taking their own sweet little time getting here.

I'm starting to harbor some doubts about their vaunted efficiency, if you ask me.

SMG

Revenant said...

I'm starting to harbor some doubts about their vaunted efficiency, if you ask me.

Yeah. I'm not saying I want Bushitleriburton to pack all the mouthy leftists off to Gitmo or anything -- but if he's going to do it, could he please do it a little faster? I'm totally unimpressed with his "two Americans in six years" record for unconstitutional imprisonments. At this rate he won't get around to silencing Lucky and Garage until approximately 17,000,000 AD. I've heard of "creeping facism", but continental drift creeps faster than that.

Luckyoldson said...

Even the Pope thinks they suck:

Pope Benedict XVI refused a recent request by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to discuss the Middle East and Iraq, Vatican sources say.

The Pope refused a request for an audience during the August holidays.

Senior Vatican sources told the BBC the Pope does not normally receive politicians on his annual holiday at the Castelgandolfo residence near Rome.

But one leading Italian newspaper said it was an evident snub by the Vatican towards the Bush administration.

SMGalbraith said...

Yeah. I'm not saying I want Bushitleriburton to pack all the mouthy leftists off to Gitmo or anything

Well, I just look great in brown.

And I do have a moustache.

A little bit more selfish reasoning on my part, admittedly....

SMG

Tom W. said...

Why are the comments from conservatives always funnier than comments from liberals?

When I was in college, I was taught that conservatives were pea-brained, racist, reactionary Christian fundamentalists who parted their hair on the side, ate tons of beef and pork, and spent all their free time cleaning their guns.

Nobody told me they were also light years ahead of liberals in terms of wit and humor.

How'd that happen?

garage mahal said...

Jane
Why is it that it's always wingers that bring up the Bushitleriburton crap to begin with? Like, if you don't agree wholeheartely with the position of the Editorial Board at Powerline, that makes you a kook.

McChimpyhalliburton Alan Greenspan? He just said the war was largely about oil. What a crazy mofo!

Seven Machos said...

Like, if you don't agree wholeheartely with the position of the Editorial Board at Powerline, that makes you a kook

If I had a nickel for every time someone here said that...

miriam said...

Too cool for school:
If Kurt Cobain had been born a decade later and had some nice video games to play with maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

SMGalbraith said...

McChimpyhalliburton Alan Greenspan? He just said the war was largely about oil. What a crazy mofo!

Greenspan: I was not saying that that's [oil] the administration's motive," Greenspan said in an interview Saturday, "I'm just saying that if somebody asked me, 'Are we fortunate in taking out Saddam?' I would say it was essential."

Sorry, try again.

SMG

jane said...

Garage,

I thought we were discussing left-right respective stabs at humor. Or did you think just mindless stabs?

Revenant said...

Why is it that it's always wingers that bring up the Bushitleriburton crap to begin with?

Um, Garage -- we're discussing an article in which a left-winger compared America to Nazi Germany.

I admit that I was the first to bring up the "-burton" part of the name, but the "Bush=Hitler" part was conveniently supplied by Naomi Wolf.

Patrick said...

Naomi Wolf's best work was spraypaint-shading Algore's alpha "attachment" for Rolling Stone.

Since then, well, like all the leftist, dick^H^H^H^Hattachment-spraypaint-shading types, she's been looking for a, well, *symbol* to follow.



If Naomi calls, I'm available for "interviews".

SMGalbraith said...

Why is it that it's always wingers that bring up the Bushitleriburton crap to begin with?

I assume this was directed as Naomi "Bush is closing down our open state" Wolf?

Blame her; not us.

SMG

Seven Machos said...

Hey man! You can't bring up the Bushitleriburton crap. Only we can bring up bring up the Bushitleriburton crap.

You are breaking all of our lefty debate, rules, dude. You must stop.

slhamlet said...

Oh, by the way. It's looking like the "Don't tase me bro!" video was planned in advance by Meyer to be what it's become-- viral:

http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/09/19/meyer_jerk/index.html

I got an e-mail from Tyler Antar, a University of Florida junior, who was in the auditorium Monday when campus police Tasered 21-year-old Andrew Meyer during a forum with Sen. John Kerry.

I spoke to Antar this morning about what happened before the video snapped on. Together with details from Florida newspapers, from the police report and from Meyer's own Web site, another side of Kerry's heckler emerged today. His jerky side. More important, there's also some suggestion that Meyer went into the forum looking for trouble. The cops overreacted, but was Meyer egging them on for the camera?

... After Meyer caused the disturbance, two officers who'd been standing to the side of the room moved closer to him, Antar said. At that point, Antar told me, Meyer began taunting the officers. "He turned to the cops and said, 'What, are you going to Taser me? Are you going to arrest me?'"

In the police report, Nicole Mallo -- one of the two officers who used the Taser on Meyer -- writes that after Meyer asked his question, he turned to a "friend" carrying a camera and asked, "Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?"

AlphaLiberal said...

Althouse lies:
"Bush is Hitler. "

She never said that. Nor did she imply it.

A typical lame and deceptive ass way to argue. A) Creating hysterically exaggerated strawman. B) Pummel your strawman.

Seven Machos said...

Alpha -- Are you really going to sit here and argue that Wolf doesn't compare the current government's policies to the Nazi regime?

Perhaps you should read the piece. Then, come back and try to say something coherent.

Thanks.

Revenant said...

Nor did she imply it.

"using force on 'undesirables,' 'aliens,' 'enemies of the state,' and those considered by mainstream civil society to be untouchable; in other times they were, of course, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals."

Is English not your first language?

You get that the "Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals" line is a reference to the Nazi death camps... right? She is explicitly saying that we're exhibiting certain behavior, and using the Nazi treatment of Jews as an example of how that behavior manifested "in earlier times".

reader_iam said...

Iconic turning point: "Going viral on YouTube."

A definition for the age. Alas.

***

And if shlhamlet has this right, boy does it validate my gut reaction: so made for Jerry Springer (or the mouth guy from back in the '80s, somebody Downey, I think).

Not that I believe campus police handled the situation particularly well, but still.

Laika's Last Woof said...

Wasn't there some mayor a few years ago who beat the crap out of some guy who tried to throw a pie in his face?
And Buzz Aldrin decked some guy who called him a liar about the moon landings ...
"Don't Taze Me, Bro!" LOL.

This punk takes his place in a long line of provocateurs upon whom the other shoe dropped.
There's nothing to see here, but we all looked anyway. They are entertaining, I'll give 'em that ... maybe it's worth giving them their 15 minutes if we get a good laugh out of it.

Clem said...

Well, heck, if soldiers do Taser shots for fun, and Ann's willing to do unpleasant things if properly compensated...

The Ann Althouse Taser Challenge

Make vlog history, Ann.

Luckyoldson said...

By the way...

Some people want to claim it's because she said "god damn", but clearly FOX has no qualms airing "god damn" cause on a recent FOX News program they aired it 5 times in the span of a couple of minutes.

Oh, and the FCC ruled that "goddamn" is perfectly acceptable on broadcast television.

Luckyoldson said...

Tom W. said..."When I was in college..."

Nobody believes you went to college.

Luckyoldson said...

seven,
Before you start your usual routine: Blow me.

Nichevo said...

Hoosier Daddy, do you have a citation on FDR and wiretaps? I was having just such an argument and my cousin went off her nut insisting that it never happened, could never have happened. So save me a google and tell me where you read it? TIA.

Seven Machos said...

Why would anyone pick on Tom W?

Luckyoldson said...

seven,
Duh.

Laika's Last Woof said...

Found it!
Willie Brown, mayor of San Francisco at the time, was attacked with a pie in 1999 and aquitted himself quite well in the ensuing melee.
I couldn't find a video, though.

Seneca the Younger said...

You're still on that jag?

She's not worth using new material.

tariely said...

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