August 26, 2007

"Also, hate sex is especially hot... "

That's the first comment over at Volokh Conspiracy on a long, thoughtful post by Ilya Somin about whether "dating across ideological lines" is going to work.
In general, I am sympathetic to Kirchick's view that much of the reluctance to date across ideological lines stems from unjustified intolerance. However, I also have some reservations....
You get the tone of the post.
Partisans and ideologues routinely overestimate the extent to which political disagreements reflect differences in fundamental values rather than divergent evaluations of the best way to achieve the same or similar values.
Are we going to talk about the relationship like that? Forget the problem of dating someone who doesn't share you ideology. What about dating someone who doesn't share your rhetorical style?

22 comments:

EnigmatiCore said...

I am confused-- are you trying to date Ilya Somin?

Jeff said...

"What about dating someone who doesn't share your rhetorical style?"

It's a nightmare of mis-communication.

Zeb Quinn said...

People dismissing it haven't a clue about what they're depriving themselves of. Mrs. Quinn, to whom I have been married for 35 years, and I are political polar opposites. Or at least were back then (funny thing, we've both become much more accommodating about politics over time). It was raw biology, and the differences did add considerable zest to the mix. It was good for both of us individually and for our relationship.

-Peder said...

My wife and I are on different sides of the divide and we get on just fine. For us it took some time to understand that both of us really did want people to be happy, prosperous and free. We just saw different paths to get there. Once you get past questioning the other side's motives, it's much easier to get along.

Bissage said...

"Also, hate sex is especially hot... "

Why do we laugh at some jokes and take offense at others?

You got me . . .

But I found that really offensive, even though the first time I heard the expression "grudge f*ck" I laughed out loud.

Go figure.

Anyway, I've pondered the matter and I have to agree with that commenter: I too hate hot sex.

Remember, when the weather's hot and sticky, it's no time for dunking dicky. When the frost is on the pumpkin, then it's time for dicky dunking.

Bissage said...

Dunkin', that is.

Gahrie said...

You know the expression that blew me away the first time I heard it? (and made me strangely sad)

F*@k buddy.

Not even the Baby boomers were cynical enough to comer up with this one. They used the prosaic "free love".

I guess there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the concept, but .....

It saddens me that we have come to this.

wyatt gwyon said...

I think it can very productive to love someone with a different ideological outlook, rhetorical style, nationality, socioeconomic background, religious background, or any other difference we often believe to be a source of our core values. It makes one realize those with different ideologies, religions, etc. act out of good faith contention with the same problems we do.

Ann, what's your reason for wringing your hands about talking about relationships in these terms?

Mortimer Brezny said...

Not enough Mortimer in her Brezny pudding.

Bissage said...

I think wyatt may have hit upon this season’s best pick-up line:

Hey baby, how about we go back to my place for some productive realization of our good faith contentions, core value-wise, that is. Heh, heh, heh.

That's much better than the modern classic: "Hey you, wanna be f*@k buddies?"

Meade said...

"Not even the Baby boomers were cynical enough to comer up with this one. They used the prosaic 'free love'."

Hey, as a cynical Baby boomer myself, let me assure you - we comered up with far worse sh*t than that. And truth be told - there was nothing free about any of it. We got our sex the timelessly old fashioned way: we manipulated and exploited each other for it.

I imagine hot hate sex with one's ideological opposite would not be dissimilar to having sex with certain personality disordered individuals: Best sex ever. Just don't get stupid and marry the pr*ck/c*nt.

Ron said...

In the old TV show Action! Jay Mohr talks to Illyana Douglass after sex and says "Wow! That was great! Either you're getting hotter or I was really angry at work today!"

Larry said...

'Tis oft said (by me): "We share a mortgage and probably three kids."

Been at it more than 40 years, we have.

Ann Althouse said...

Here's why I found that "hate sex" line funny and not offensive. Ilya wrote this long and rather dry elaboration of his ideas, and left out one obvious point. The commenter made that point -- which is that you can have fight about politics and then, instead of resolving the argument, have sex, and it can be especially exciting precisely because you are fighting.

And the commenter said that in a completely different style. I repeated his remark because I understood exactly what he meant and found it funny, especially because he made it short and surprising -- in sharp contrast to Ilya's style of presentation, and because it set up a point I wanted to make: I have almost no problem spending time with someone who disagrees with me politically, but I have a terrible problem with someone who conducts a conversation in a manner that is very different from what I like.

hdhouse said...

Is that why "my dinner with andre" is your fav?

by the way, Ann, I like your blog even more now that you are partaking in it as a commenter, checking your moderator cloak at the door at times...

is this your point on how to approach you and you others?

Ann Althouse said...

I've always participated in the comments.

It's just that there are some subjects -- notably the war and gay rights -- where there are so many comments that I don't keep up and so I don't have much to say.

Good point about "My Dinner With Andre." Conversation is a huge thing with me but I'm antsy about conversations that aren't my style. I have a lot of issues on this score. Fortunately, as a lawprof, I get to set the tone myself. It helps a lot.

Meade said...

Good conversation beats hot sex every time but good sex is always better than a hot conversation.

Theo Boehm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mortimer Brezny said...

I have almost no problem spending time with someone who disagrees with me politically, but I have a terrible problem with someone who conducts a conversation in a manner that is very different from what I like.

Is this why you won't go to dinner with Mortimer?

XWL said...

Conversation is a huge thing with me

So podcasts are meant as a type of foreplay?

Hmmmm.

Mr. Forward said...

Hate Sex sounds Wrong, but Make Up Sex, mmmmmm BABY!

Wade Garrett said...

If hate sex is especially hot, have we finally found the secret to Althouse's popularity?