April 23, 2007

Driving all over the place in a bus to tell people to stop global warming.

No contradiction there!

Anyway, Laurie David and Sheryl Crow obviously think they are exceedingly delightful. They've snagged a lot of press in the last couple days and moved the global warming spotlight onto themselves and away from Al Gore. And I was getting so used to having all my concerns about global warming embodied in the carbon-sequestering body of Al Gore.

The Crow-David entity assumes we too think they are delightful. Here it is enthusing about its encounter with Karl Rove at the White House Correspondents Dinner:
At some point during his ramblings, we became heartbroken to think that the President of the United States and his top advisers have partially built a career on global warming not being real....

In his attempt to dismiss us, Mr. Rove turned to head toward his table, but as soon as he did so, Sheryl reached out to touch his arm. Karl swung around and spat, "Don't touch me." How hardened and removed from reality must a person be to refuse to be touched by Sheryl Crow?
Gah! They think the world should listen to them because they are -- they assume -- so terribly sexually attractive. Roll carbon-sequestering Al back in here please.
Unphased, Sheryl abruptly responded, "You can't speak to us like that, you work for us." Karl then quipped, "I don't work for you, I work for the American people." To which Sheryl promptly reminded him, "We are the American people."
We are the ones who make a brighter day....

I love the way Sheryl is "unphased." This woman is strong. She can deal with a man not yielding to her sexual power. She cares that much.
At that point Mr. Rove apparently decided he had had enough. Like a groundhog fearful of his own shadow, he scurried to his table in an attempt to hibernate for another year from his responsibility to address global warming.
When the groundhog retreats, it means there will be more winter. Not the best global warming simile, but at least you tried.
Drama aside, you would expect as an American citizen to be able to engage in a civil discussion with a public official. Instead, Mr. Rove was dismissive, condescending, and quite frankly a bully.
I'll leave it to you to look at this writing and infer who was dismissive, condescending, and a bully in this encounter.

ADDED: Don't like the way the Crow-David entity spelled "unphased"? Blame "Star Trek."

115 comments:

Kev said...

(the other kev)

Who wouldn't want to be touched by Sheryl Crow? How about anyone who knows she only uses one square to wipe?

The only reason Laurie David is paid any attention is because she married an ugly guy with a lot of money. I know Arianna can relate, but why inflict her on the rest of us?

hdhouse said...

I actually knew Lee Atwater. He was, at best a snarly little entitled southern boy who used to guard Strom Thurmonds flank whenever the good Senator decided to venture out for confrontation. Rove is, frankly, no different.

Although a dinner is hardly the place to engage anyone in a pressing discussion that relates "gasp" to their jobs and it is a bit borish...i would opine that Mr. Rove, in stating that he "works for ..." that that is the problem.

One can easily say that this administration has no interest at all in the population that is on the left side of the room, and now perhaps has no interest in the 40% of the right side who has taken up arms against them.

Mr. Rove's definition of America, frankly rests in the 33% who like the bastard-in-chief and Ms. Crowe is just a fly in the ointment, regardless of message.

Ann, I'm fairly sure from your vantage point and predilictions Ms. Crowe isn't your cup of tea but if Ms. Crowe showed up on my doorstep and said "let's talk" I'd be inclined to invite her in for coffee...sexism aside...Mr. Rove would have been well served to simply say to her "this is neither the time nor the place..here..call my secretary and let me hear what you have to say"....it would have been sooooo easy. instead we get this.

Palladian said...

What was he supposed to do, rend his garments (ick) and weep that- yes!- he believes in global warming and fall into the comforting embrace of the Crow's bosom? I mean, even that hero Lance, who had a wife and kids and only one ball, couldn't resist the genital-warming power of Sheryl Crow!

Is it getting hot in here? If so, it's only due to the excess exhalations of CO2 from the panting and additional heat from the pants caused by the mere presence of such stars (and what emits more heat than a star?) of the likes of Crow and David!

NSC said...

Laurie David and Sheryl Crow are the ultimate in narcissistic Hollywood liberal hypocrites.

They accoust Rove at a dinner and are insulted when he is not impressed with their intellect or their celebrity. Heck, David has neither as she is just a leech on Larry David's talent and fame, and Crow is a so-so musical artist with little to offer past that mediocre talent.

Add in the fact that they both have carbon footprints the size of Nevada and I cannot think for a moment why Rove would want to be lectured by them on anything, much less global warming.

Also, I wouldn't want Crow to touch me either - she is a rock star after all and who the hell knows where her hands have been.

mrs whatsit said...

As for "unphased," Sheryl Crow may be strong and able to deal with a man not yielding to her sexual power and all that . . . but she can't spell.

Bob said...

The only part of it that bothers me is that Crow and David decided that they are of sufficient celebrity power to make a public spectacle of themselves. They're probably the sort that, in an argument, say things like "Do you know who I am?"

dave™© said...

Typical Blithering Idiot misogyny, mixed in with the latest brownshirt blastfax. All that's missing is a "Gore is fat" joke.

Lady, you're fucking pathetic.

hdhouse said...

Everyone take two steps back.

When Mr. Rove takes his long awaited vacation in Club Fed, then he will get the idea of "working for us".

He does you know. He does get his check from us. he may not like it but sometime in his life he might like to listen. Rather he did it from Ms. Crowe than me cause I'd grag that sniviling little bastard by his no so scrawny neck and ask him what the hell does he think he is doing with this country.

El Presidente said...

Uh Dave, I'm pretty sure that "the carbon sequestering body of Al Gore" was infact a Gore is fat joke.

Ann Althouse said...

"All that's missing is a "Gore is fat" joke."

Dave, keep up! There is a Gore is fat joke. How are you going to maintain your credibility to call me a fucking idiot if you yourself don't understand the references?

SGT Ted said...

ooooh two celebrity airheads didn't receive the just adulation from a Presidential policy advisor when they attempted to ignorantly opine on a complex scientific matter!

Because everyone knows that being a washed up popstar and a rich mans honey confers so much scientific knowledge, gravitas and moral authority. I'll bet they've even gone to parties with Leonardo DeCaprio and Al Gore!

I'd say they received the respect they deserve, given their expertise on any science subject, much less global warming.

El Presidente said...

Ann, I've got your back.

George said...

Revealing article about David in More magazine a few months ago....

Her college degree? BA in Journalism.

Her post-college job? Talent booker for the Letterman Show.

Article ends with her in her Prius chasing an SUV down the highway so that she can scowl at its driver.

Of course, the article gives her and numerous Hollwood pals space to comment on their environmental views without one word of opposing opinion.

Aluwid said...

"You work for me," she told Rove, according to the Post column "The Reliable Source."

"No," was his response. "I work for the American people."

Heather Lylis, a spokeswoman for Crow and David's global warming tour, said Sunday that Crow's response for Rove was: "Yes, and I'm an American citizen."


Yes, but there are a few hundred million of us which makes the two opinions that were being expressed to Rove incredibly insignificant. Unless they are claiming to be some sort of representative of the rest of us, but I sure don't remember voting for them.

Saul said...

I think Dave has created a new way for trollers to keep from having their posts removed. Say something so stupid that Ann can't resist to keep his pathetic post on her blog.

Ann, I'm not sure you are setting good precedent here :)

Saul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

< sarcasm>

I just had a disturbing thought....

You don't suppose that this little contretemps where the evil troll Rove (tm) was bravely confronted by the noble Princess David and Princess Crow was planned in order to draw precisely this type of reaction and publicity do you?

< /sarcasm>

Fen said...

They accoust Rove at a dinner and are insulted when he is not impressed with their intellect or their celebrity

I don't even believe their account of the meeting. Total crock.

NSC said...

Typical Blithering Idiot misogyny, mixed in with the latest brownshirt blastfax. All that's missing is a "Gore is fat" joke.

Lady, you're fucking pathetic.


Someone missed his meds this morning.

Bissage said...

Karl Rove reportedly said: “I don't work for you, I work for the American people.

If that’s true, I’m kind of dissapointed. His best straight comeback would have been “I work for the President” or even “I work for the government.”

But so much snarkistic possibility. So little time!

“I work for you? Then fire me, you nappy-headed ho.”

“I do not work for you. I serve our Great Master, the Dark Lord Vagtar.”

“Wrong. I don’t work at all. I get paid for doing nothing at all, whatsoever. And I get paid well.”

“Touch me like that a little lower and I’ll work for you all night long, baby.”

B said...

Fen - you are probably correct - unless we get third party verification, it's doubtful that it happened the way it has been related so far.

hdhouse - If it did happen, you are correct in how Rove should have handled it - and I am a Bush supporter. His "job" entails knowing how to deal with situations like that. That said, it is terribly unseemly for 2 celebrities to feel the need to "take on" someone who has approval ratings a tenth of theirs - how "brave".

I met Laurie David (and Larry) at a function once. We did not discuss politics at our table, but she was kind and circumspect. I had been warned that she was a shrew, someone interested in turning every conversation around to herself and her political aims, even to the point of turning off people that would likely support her philosophy. Instead we only talked about our children and the daily raising of them. She was delightful and came across as a concerned parent - I believe that she thought the same of me. I could hardly be more politically opposite, but after all the bad press she gets, I just had to give my 2 cents.

NSC said...

“Touch me like that a little lower and I’ll work for you all night long, baby.”

LOL. If only he had said that - can you imagine how deflated their little egotistical hearts would have been?

Gahrie said...

“Touch me like that a little lower and I’ll work for you all night long, baby.”

LOL. If only he had said that - can you imagine how deflated their little egotistical hearts would have been?


Can you imagine the spluttering outrage we'd get from the types of Rosie O'Donnell and Marcotte today if he had?

NSC said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NSC said...

Some interesting information about the "environmentalist" that is Laurie David:

http://www.gasdetection.
com/news2/health_news_
digest51.html

Even worse is David's chic but hypocritical environmentalism at her summer home in Martha's Vineyard. She was issued a "notice of apparent violations" for building a 26-foot-long barbecue station, stone-and-concrete bonfire pit, and outdoor theater on an environmentally sensitive patch of their 14-acre North Road property without the proper permits. They were also cited for tearing up protected vegetation to make way for a lush, sodded lawn, among other crimes against nature.

Oh yes, Rove should sit still for a lecture by this woman.

inkykettle said...

The bus runs on biodiesel.

http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/sgw_read.asp?id=1018153272007

TMink said...

I think we are missing the point here. Sheryl Crow is a STAR! She can sing, write songs, play bass, and looks marvelous. We must listen to her, she is beautiful and famous.

hdhouse, I think Bush has turned his back on the 30% that used to agree with him as well as the larger percent that want his head. Congress at least dances with who brung em. At least a little. They understand what a low favorable rating means. Or do they? I have to think about it.

Trey

Sloanasaurus said...

What is Rove supposed to do when he is accosted by Lefties who make arguments to him not based on facts. Rove should have been ready and responded by asking Ms. David if she flew in on her private jet to the event that was not really necessary in promoting the cause to reduce global emissions.

Laurie David and her ilk are hypocrites who believe that world government is best for all of us. They need to be resisted and put down at every opportunity.

Sloanasaurus. See more at the John Adams Blog

Tim said...

Rove knew he was being ambushed. That he engaged them at all was probably a tactical mistake, but given he was in a public dinner with disproportionate attendance by liberals, he probably felt he had no choice.

If they really wanted to talk seriously to him about their pet issue rather than stage a public confrontation, they could have made an appointment. It's not like he or the White House wouldn't have known who they were. They obviously wanted the confrontation instead.

Freder Frederson said...

Rove should have been ready and responded by asking Ms. David if she flew in on her private jet to the event that was not really necessary in promoting the cause to reduce global emissions.

That would have been a big mistake. The two are touring the country in a biodiesel bus a la Willie Nelson (with perhaps not quite as much marijuana). That is how they got to the dinner.

Now Ann, and the rest of you, what exactly are your objections to Crow and David's actions? Don't they have the right to address Rove on an issue they feel is important? Doesn't Rove, who after all does work for them, and us, have an obligation to treat them with respect?

True, we only have their version of their events. But assuming that their version of events is true, and no one has disputed it, and Rove was rude and dismissive, why are you criticizing Crow and David? Rove is no scientist either. As a representative of the administration, he has a responsibility to keep his cool. If he doesn't want to talk to them, he should excuse himself politely and walk away. There is no indication they followed him across the ballroom, badgering and hectoring him.

Freder Frederson said...

Unless they are claiming to be some sort of representative of the rest of us, but I sure don't remember voting for them.

Well I don't remember Rove's name being on a ballot anywhere either, or that he was even confirmed by the Senate.

Freeman Hunt said...

Who wouldn't want to be touched by Sheryl Crow? How about anyone who knows she only uses one square to wipe?

Too funny. How would someone even make an attempt to use only one square?

There was also this:

[Crow] has designed a clothing line with what she calls a "dining sleeve".

The sleeve is detachable and can be replaced with another "dining sleeve" after the diner has used it to wipe his or her mouth.


Heh.

Imagine being at dinner with a bunch of people using "dining sleeves"--everyone's sleeves spotted with sauce and spittle. That might ruin the meal.

John said...

Laurie David, the producer of "An Inconvenient Truth" and global warming activist, told Texas A&M students to change their "individual behavior" in order to consume fewer resources and to help battle global warming. As an employee of Easterwood Airport, I would like to point out that Mrs. David flew to our campus in a luxurious private jet, which could be seen from 10 miles away due to the thick plume of smog it left in its wake. I am neither denying nor confirming the epidemic of global warming, I am simply pointing out that hypocrites such as Mrs. David don't care about the environment, only their own political agendas. This is proven time and again by these celebrities' and lobbyist's "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.


Even worse is David's chic but hypocritical environmentalism at her summer home in Martha's Vineyard. She was issued a "notice of apparent violations" for building a 26-foot-long barbecue station, stone-and-concrete bonfire pit, and outdoor theater on an environmentally sensitive patch of their 14-acre North Road property without the proper permits. They were also cited for tearing up protected vegetation to make way for a lush, sodded lawn, among other crimes against nature.

The commission has since ordered her to remove the offending structures and restore the area to its previous state. All these violations were allegedly done to prepare for a political fundraiser hosted by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (another faux Green). Alas, there's no such thing as cheap environmentalism on the Vineyard.

Laurie David has been labeled a "Gulfstream liberal" by Eric Alterman, himself a proud member of the Left and a regular columnist for the Nation. He recognizes that Ms. David's brand of environmentalism is nothing more than a facade, a distraction from the financially secure yet intellectually boring life of the fabulously wealthy. But this hobby has dire consequences for the rest of us."


From Instapundit today. Laurie David is a third rate trophy wife whose claim to fame, beyond marrying a rich older man is having been "talent coordinator" for Letterman. Yeah, she is really deserving of a lecture tour to tell us all about global warming. Contrast her to Michael Creighton who is a Harvard MD and was a Salk Fellow. But of course Creighton disputes global warming so is merely a Scifi writer while Ms. David is the one who gets the media attention and gets to pretend she actually knows something.

David is a nasty, hypocritical know nothing. Why do I know who this woman is? Why does she receive any more media attention than a 9-11 conspiracy theorist posting on KOS?

Freder Frederson said...

For being a feminist Ann, you sure like to pick on attractive women who take on causes. Are only ugly women allowed to have opinions?

Mike said...

Why would anybody believe this?

tiggeril said...

Since when do feminists have to support every halfwitted "cause" a female celebrity decides to crap onto the public table?

John said...

Freder,

What message does David send to women other than it pays to have big boobs and lay down for the right man?

Ann Althouse said...

Freder: "For being a feminist Ann, you sure like to pick on attractive women who take on causes. Are only ugly women allowed to have opinions?"

You don't quite have my angle right, but you are seeing something that I in fact do think. It's this. I don't like seeing women act entitled because of their looks, and I think women are utterly ridiculous when they actually say things that reveal that they think they are good looking. Why are they SAYING it? We can see how good looking they are, and it's often not as good as they think.

Aluwid said...

Freder,

"Well I don't remember Rove's name being on a ballot anywhere either, or that he was even confirmed by the Senate."

Rose also wasn't trying to use his status as an American citizen to make his opinion relevant, rather it's his current position, which he was selected by elected representatives to perform, that makes him important.

David and Crow tried to indicate to Rove that he should listen to them simply because they are American citizens. Well great, so are the rest of us, get in line.

Rove was entirely correct when he replied that he didn't work for them, he works for the American people of which those two are an insignificant part. And they were wasting his time when he would probably prefer to be eating his salad.

Bissage said...

I’m dissapointed with how I spelled “dissapointed” on an earlier comment.

So, please let me make it up to everyone by setting forth three reasons why Sheryl Crow deserves our deference.

Hey, at least she doesn't have photos of breasts all over her blog.

Bissage said...

Number two: http://scriverwide.tripod.com/sheryl_crow_l6.jpg.

Now that's classy!

Freder Frederson said...

I don't like seeing women act entitled because of their looks, and I think women are utterly ridiculous when they actually say things that reveal that they think they are good looking.

You read into Crow's statement that she would think that Rove would want to be touched by her because she is drop-dead gorgeous. It is just as reasonable to assume she was referring to her celebrity, not her looks. Yet you choose to focus on her looks, not her vanity as a star.

And you have nothing to say about the apparent rudeness of Rove. What ever happened to civility?

reader_iam said...

Today was one of those days when we were filled with hope that the message was clear that the issue of global warming was not a political one! [From the first linked article.]

Gak! On soooo many levels.

How excited were we to have our first opportunity ever to talk directly to the Bush Administration about global warming.

Yeah, right. Well, maybe right, but it's nature and cause of the excitement that's in question.

At some point during his ramblings, we became heartbroken to think that the President of the United States and his top advisers have partially built a career on global warming not being real.

Oh, for crying out loud.

"Drama aside": the funniest two words in the entire piece.

I've got no problem with people working for causes in which they believe. Go for it! That's how participatory democracy works.

I just wish that certain among them would resist the urge to commit painful prose while they're at it.

Thorley Winston said...

Who wouldn't want to be touched by Sheryl Crow? How about anyone who knows she only uses one square to wipe?

Really, I was under the impression that she used three seashells.

Ann Althouse said...

"You read into Crow's statement that she would think that Rove would want to be touched by her because she is drop-dead gorgeous. It is just as reasonable to assume she was referring to her celebrity, not her looks. Yet you choose to focus on her looks, not her vanity as a star."

Freder, it's the whole damned entitlement package, including the implied belief that she's gorgeous... which, by the way, I don't think she is.

reader_iam said...

In no way do I mean to imply I'm defending Rove. I find him generally indefensible, as I have for a long itme.

Pete Who? said...

Freder,

Last time I checked, biodiesel was a carbon-emitting hydrocarbon-based fuel (see the EPA's draft report, page 48).

So give 'em props for taking the bus instead of the private jet, but even so they're still not arguing from strong personal positions.

J. said...

Crow's rather creepy. Always reminded me of a tanned mantis with fine dental work.

Wouldn't surprise me that Rove's an a-hole. Would surprise me if he wasn't. But why would Laurie David believe she's entitled to a civil conversation from Karl Rove? Cripes -- if he's the Dark Lord of the Sith and all, I bet he's been monitoring HuffPo.

However, I would have handled it differently. I would have been polite, graceful, and and kept asking questions as if I believed them both to be faithful members of some republican women's club.

Shuddering thought of the day: imagine a Muslim environmentalist. Talk about terrorizing.

reader_iam said...

From Sheryl's blog:

I propose a limitation be put on how many sqares of toilet paper can be used in any one sitting. Now, I don't want to rob any law-abiding American of his or her God-given rights, but I think we are an industrious enough people that we can make it work with only one square per restroom visit, except, of course, on those pesky occasions where 2 to 3 could be required.

and

This next idea I have been saving but I will share it with you if you promise not to steal it. It is my latest, very exciting idea for creating incentive for us all to minimize our own personal carbon footprints. It's a reality show. (I feel pretty certain NO ONE has thought of this yet!). Here is the premise: the contest consists of 10 people who are competing for the top spot as the person who lives the "greenest" life. This will be reflected in the contestant's home, his business, and his own personal living style. The winner of this challenging, prestigious, contest would receive what??.... a recording contract!!!!![Emphasis added.]

No low self-esteem issues there.

Freder Frederson said...

Freder, it's the whole damned entitlement package, including the implied belief that she's gorgeous... which, by the way, I don't think she is.

But what about Rove's entitlement package? He apparently believes he only has to answer to the "American People". Do you seriously believe that if the "American People" (e.g., me or you) approached him in the street and tried to engage him in a conversation about global warming (and I know you have never said you don't not believe in it) he would be inclined to listen to us. More likely we would be tackled by his SS detail. He could give two shits about what the American People think about him.

Ann Althouse said...

"But what about Rove's entitlement package?"

If only Rove would blog his jackassery like the Crow-David entity does, so that I would have something to link to and mock, I would gladly do it.

Wade Garrett said...

The only celebrities who have a right to talk about politics are Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sonny Bono, Lynn Swann, J.C. Watts, Steve Largent, and Fred Thompson. Doesn't everybody realize this?

Aluwid said...

Do you seriously believe that if the "American People" (e.g., me or you) approached him in the street and tried to engage him in a conversation about global warming (and I know you have never said you don't not believe in it) he would be inclined to listen to us.

What's the alternative? Given the scope of what they represent trying to contact a national figure on a one on one basis does not scale well. They only have so much time in the day and there are far too many people that want to be heard to follow this method.

A better method is impersonal communication such as letters or email so that staff can aggregate the comments to a package that the representative has time to parse.

Having said that it would have been much better if Rove had handled the situation with class, that would have made the rudeness of the others more apparent. As it stands now they both look bad but Crow and David look worse due to the hubris and the fact that they were the ones that started it.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Now Ann, and the rest of you, what exactly are your objections to Crow and David's actions?

I for one have no objections to them addressing anyone. If anything, I just take issue with someone thinking their celebrity status somehow entitles them to a one on one face time with the President’s Deputy Chief of Staff.

Don't they have the right to address Rove on an issue they feel is important?

Yeah just as much as I do which come to think of it, makes me wonder if I lost my invitation to the dinner. I mean I’m not a journalist but then again, neither is Crow.

Doesn't Rove, who after all does work for them, and us,

Well this whole “I work for the American people” schtick is tiresome. He works for the President, end story. I can no more ‘fire’ Rove than I can a state employee who ‘technically works for me’ via my tax dollars.

The issue with people like Crow and David is that aside from their celebrity status, have demonstrated the intelligence quotient of a 5 year old. Expecting any kind of meaningful input from some one who thinks I need to combat global warming by only using one square of TP to wipe my ass is a wishful thinking.

Now I know why Lance dumped her.

Thorley Winston said...

“Touch me like that a little lower and I’ll work for you all night long, baby.”

How do we know that Karl Rove didn’t actually say that to Sheryl Crow and she didn’t step into the cloakroom to oblige him? It could be that Laurie David is just jealous because she wasn’t asked to join them and made up the whole “don’t touch me” (which is a perfectly appropriate thing to say to a stranger who rudely grabs you when you try to leave) line out of spite for being rejected.

The fact is that we don’t know what really happened except that (a) Sheryl Crow couldn’t keep her hands off Karl Rove and (b) when he didn’t respond to her touches, she tried to get him to submit by telling him “you work for [her and Laurie David].”

Could be potential grounds for a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Bissage said...

Strangely enough, after reading this, I think better of her than I did before. Anyone who makes sure her people are getting ripped on decent stuff can't be all bad.

She’s still a self-important air-head and a bland, crappy singer.

Dad said...

Does it mean I'm a cranky old bastard that David and Crowe make me want to put a bumper sticker on my truck that says, "Fuck the Environment"?

Bissage, I'm still laughing at your snarks.

AllenS said...

"Now I know why Lance dumped her."

Upon leaving, he was known to have said: "I'm going to take my ball and go home."

J. said...

Wade,

Let me help you. Try Tom Selleck, Bruce Willis, and Dennis Miller. Better examples.

For at least the folks you mention ran the gauntlet of politics, and we're pretty successful at it. It's why Al Franken deserves some respect for taking a shot at the big time, and why Laurie David is an easy target (and not a great comparion to RR et al.)

merjoem32 said...

I observed that Gore on Global Warming has created a lot of negative feelings towards the campaign to prevent global warming. I think that other advocates can make this cause more attractive to people.

Kirk said...

"Are you touching me because you think you're gorgeous? 'Cause you're not!"

Ernie Fazio said...

So let me get this straight, Sheryl Crow and Laurie David are trying to get people hyped about global warming. When we reject them, are we rejecting the message? Are we just resentful of their toned bodies (one more than the other) and incalculable wealth (one more than the other)? If a wealthy businessman says something should he be given more credibility than a wealthy celebrity? Or do we just find ways to attack the messenger without worrying about the message which will be defeated by our ad hominem argument.

Al Gore is overweight, and we don't like him because of that and wouldn't listen to him or vote for him because he is fat? Is l'Althouse overweight? We don't like Clinton because he is too sexual or was unfaithful or took advantage of an employee. We don't like Gore because he has lost his allure by gaining weight, and before that he was ponderous and too unfunny. We do like l'Althouse because she is a little risque', but we don't like Feministing because it has those truck mud flap girls giving us the bird.

People who make nasty ad hominem arguments in almost every thread should not be so thin skinned when attacked. Not Ann Coulter or Christopher Hitchens nasty, but pretty nasty.

Revenant said...

Well there's a shocker -- Sheryl Crow and Laurie David have enormous egos and senses of personal entitlement, and Karl Rove doesn't like being accosted by left-wingers. I would like to thank the Huffington Post for bringing this astounding and unanticipated news to our attention. Who would ever have guessed that such things could be true?

As for Sheryl's allegedly irresistible sex appeal, I'll just note that these days she's looking more and more like Ann Coulter -- i.e., the Generic Aging Hollywood Blonde Look.

Robert Cook said...

Hmmm...quite a bit of covert and not so covert misogyny expressed in many of the comments here.

As for the encounter between Ms. Crowe, Ms. David, and Mr. Rove, it is Rove who comes off badly here, not the "third rate trophy wife" or the "bland, drappy singer" who is "creepy" (and which thus renders clear to all why Lance "dumped" her).

Rove's behavior is screamingly indicative of the contempt he holds for the American public, a contempt not held by him alone among those in this administration. Along with their contempt for us, they fear and hate us. These creeps and moral perverts actually see themselves as our betters and as our masters. THAT's the truth that should be arousing the ire of the commenters here.

Ms. David and Ms. Crowe were invited guests at the dinner and thus had an access to Mr. Rove that you or I or our neighbors did not and will not ever have. If Mr. Rove felt disturbed to have been approached, he could have excused himself. He could even have, you know, pretended to be civil and respectful, at least to the extent of exchanging the usual pleasantries and polite insincerities all too common at dinners and cocktail parties. His hysterical reaction--if accurately reported--is appalling precisely because it ratifies the worst that any of us have assumed about Rove and the people he works with.

Wade Garrett said...

Having seen them both in person, I can tell you that Sheryl Crow is much better looking than Coulter, though Crow's look has changed, and she's aged, since I last saw her. Also, Crow is TINY - she can't be taller than 5'1" or 5'2".

Crow does have one significant advantage over Coulter:she doesn't have a complexion made out of scrotum and elbow skin.

Revenant said...

The only celebrities who have a right to talk about politics are Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sonny Bono, Lynn Swann, J.C. Watts, Steve Largent, and Fred Thompson. Doesn't everybody realize this?

With the exception of Lynn Swann, every name on that list belongs to a person who holds, or held, elected political office. Their political opinions were listened to because -- duh -- they were politicians.

Obviously what my governor thinks about politics is of more interest to me than what Laurie David thinks. The former has direct control over policies that affect my life. The latter is just banging a rich guy and spending his money.

Revenant said...

Having seen them both in person, I can tell you that Sheryl Crow is much better looking than Coulter

"Better looking than Ann Coulter" is not much of an endorsement of a woman's sex appeal. Sheryl started out better-looking than Ann and will probably always be, but she's still well past the "object of men's sexual fantasies" stage.

SGT Ted said...

"[Crow] has designed a clothing line with what she calls a "dining sleeve".

The sleeve is detachable and can be replaced with another "dining sleeve" after the diner has used it to wipe his or her mouth."

Must be for her mouthbreather fan base who haven't heard of cloth napkins yet and still wipe their snot and drool off using their sleeves.

Revenant said...

I would also like to note that the whole "you work for us"/"I work for the American people" schtick is pretentious on both sides. Karl Rove doesn't work for Laurie, Sheryl, OR the American People. He works for George Bush -- that's who appointed him, and that's the only person who can fire him.

Roger said...

"...but she's still well past the "object of men's sexual fantasies" stage." I assure you Revenant, that is an ageist statement. As I have gotten older one result has been that it is definitely increased the population able to fill that particular niche.

Revenant said...

I assure you Revenant, that is an ageist statement.

Observing that fact is not "ageist". There is a damned good reason why Playboy doesn't regularly have 60-year-old women as the centerfolds, and it isn't because 60-year-old men don't still buy the magazine.

If you still choke your chicken to pictures of Crow's increasingly wrinkly visage then hey, good for you. But you're part of a rapidly dwindling cohort of men.

Revenant said...

There's a different eyewitness account of the encounter over at The Corner.

Roger said...

Rev: you are in for some considerable surprises as you age! Is playboy still being published, BTW? :)

Jeff said...

Robert Cook said "......the encounter between Ms. Crowe, Ms. David, and Mr. Rove, it is Rove who comes off badly here, not the "third rate trophy wife" or the "bland, drappy singer" who is "creepy""

Well, of course Mr Rove comes off badly there. IT'S THE OTHER TWO'S VERSION!!!!

"Rove's behavior is screamingly indicative of the contempt he holds for the American public, a contempt not held by him alone among those in this administration. Along with their contempt for us, they fear and hate us. These creeps and moral perverts actually see themselves as our betters and as our masters. THAT's the truth that should be arousing the ire of the commenters here."

Please. All based on a unsubstantiated version. Check out the version on The Corner. Now change "Rove" and "Administration" to "Crowe" and "David". Hey, how about that. The paragraph still works!

Robert Cook said...

The "eyewitness account" reported on THE CORNER does not identify the eyewitness, and there are, so far, no other corroborating accounts, so we have no reason to favor the alternative version at this time.

As I acknowledged when I said "if accurately reported," we must be open to the possibility that the account offered by Ms. David and Ms. Crowe may be impeached. As the saying goes, there's always "my version," "your version," and "the truth."

However, I find I am skeptical at the idea that Sheryl Crowe would repeatedly jab Karl Rove in the chest. Moreover, the account offered by Ms. David and Ms. Crowe, however colored it may be by their own view of events, seems in accord with what we know of Karl Rove and of this abominable administration. If Ms. Crowe and Ms. David were as contentious and aggressive as reported by the anonymous eyewitness, I suspect there would have been more made of this in the press than has been--after all, this occurred in a sea of journalists, so-called.

If other accounts corroborate the CORNER's anonymous eyewitness, I'll stand corrected.

Seven Machos said...

Let Laurie David run for office, Wade.

Justin said...

Wade Garrett said...
The only celebrities who have a right to talk about politics are Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sonny Bono, Lynn Swann, J.C. Watts, Steve Largent, and Fred Thompson. Doesn't everybody realize this?

You forgot Charlton Heston.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

The "eyewitness account" reported on THE CORNER does not identify the eyewitness, and there are, so far, no other corroborating accounts, so we have no reason to favor the alternative version at this time.

There's no reason to favor either version. We have an anonymous third-party account (presumably from a conservative, since he told The Corner about it) and a first-party account from an obviously biased source (one of the parties to the encounter).

Personally, I find the Corner version more credible simply because I'm skeptical that Rove would blow up just because a modestly successful rock singer and and Larry David's wife bitched at him about global warming. But I don't much care either way. Both versions make David and Crow look like a couple of entertainment industry bobbleheads and Rove look like someone uninterested in talking with such. Both portrayals strike me as accurate, whatever the specific details might be.

However, I find I am skeptical at the idea that Sheryl Crowe would repeatedly jab Karl Rove in the chest.

Why? In her version of the story she grabs his arm when he turns to walk away -- jabbing him in the chest with a finger isn't any ruder than that.

after all, this occurred in a sea of journalists, so-called.

In other words, it occurred in a sea of Democrats who can't stand Karl Rove. Besides, "Hollywood celebrites argue with Karl Rove" isn't exactly page one material.

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

Justin said...
You forgot Charlton Heston.


And you forgot Fred Grandy.

Thorley Winston said...

However, I find I am skeptical at the idea that Sheryl Crowe would repeatedly jab Karl Rove in the chest.

Why? If she has so little respect for other people that she thinks she can just grab a stranger who is leaving to go for his table after lecturing him that “you work for us,” it’s not that far removed from her thinking that she would think she could get away with poking him in the chest as well. Where I grew up, it was generally considered rude to grab at strangers who are walking away or to poke them in their chest. We already know that Crowe thought she could get away with doing one so it’s not that much of a stretch that she’s so lacking in class that she thought she could do the other as well.

As far as the believability of the two versions, the Corner’s sounds more plausible as this certainly isn’t the first time that Rove has dealt with confrontations from the administration’s opponents. The Corner account reads more like a blow-by-blow account and includes a lot of details that one would expect to have occurred in a real argument over AGW. Rove would certainly be in a position to know about the research funded by the administration, the background of Professor Marburger, and ICCP report and would probably want to correct any misinformation put out by Crowe and David in his presence. Crowe and David focuses on making a negative characterization of Rove and the only specifics that they provide make it clear that they were the bad actors in the encounter.

Robert Cook said...

In case you hadn't noticed Revenant, the mainstream press corps has been revoltingly subvervient to and, overwhelmingly, credulous apologists for this terrible administration. The "liberal media" meme, it it was ever even faintly true, certainly does not bear scrutiny now.

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

sgt ted,

Is Sheryl Crow officially "washed up" now? How did you determine this? Didn't her last cd "Wildflower" go platinum?

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

revenant wrote:
In her version of the story she grabs his arm when he turns to walk away


Not quite revenant. As usual, you don't have the facts quite right. Here's her version of the story:

In his attempt to dismiss us, Mr. Rove turned to head toward his table, but as soon as he did so, Sheryl reached out to touch his arm.

According to her version, his arm was not grabbed. Please try to be accurate if you're hoping to make a point that depends on facts. Thank you.

Revenant said...

Cyrus,

I'm sure you think you made an important point, but for the life of me I can't imagine what it was. You're correct that I had misremembered the alleged "touch" as a "grab", but since the former is also an incredibly rude thing to do my initial point remains -- Crow's a rude self-involved twat in both her and the third-party versions of the story, so what's so unbelievable about the chest-poking story?

TMink said...

I enjoy Sheryl Crow, when I am in a certain mood, she really hits the spot. Same with the Dixie Chicks, Joni Mitchell, The Pretenders, Rickie Lee Jones, I think they are all fantastic artists.

Their politics are insane to me, but I don't listen the The Sermon On Exposition Blvd. for the politics! Sheryl sings great, and she is a talented writer. She just has that singer-songwriter narcissism thing going on. Most of them are that or borderline personality disorder, that is where the angst that drives the art comes from.

I expect them to be ninnies, but I appreciate what they can do with a song.

Trey

Revenant said...

In case you hadn't noticed Revenant, the mainstream press corps has been revoltingly subvervient to and, overwhelmingly, credulous apologists for this terrible administration.

I also did not notice that the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was an inside job. The reason I have not "noticed" these things is that I am not on drugs.

But thanks for mention that you believe in that amusingly delusional world-view. It saves me so much time when the people whose opinions are completely unworthy of my attention are polite enough to identify themselves in advance.

Mike said...

Cyrus: Would you believe a version of this encounter retold by Karl Rove? Then why are you so accepting of a version written by the Crow-David entity?

Revenant said...

Mike,

You're asking that of a guy who has wasted several thousand words arguing that it is reasonable to believe that Clarence Thomas is engaged in a mulit-decade conspiracy aimed at making it *look* like he listens to oral arguments when, in fact, he is merely sitting quietly and NOT listening to them, so he can read them on transcript later.

So the answer to your question is obvious -- there's no such thing as a theory too ridiculous to believe if it makes a right-winger look bad, and no such thing as a reasonable theory that makes a left-winger look bad.

Mike said...

Rev,

Yeah, I know. I just couldn't help myself.

Chip Ahoy said...

I don't like strangers touching me, especially when it interferes with my movement. I instantly resent the person who does that, as well as the person who pops into my conversation from nowhere interrupting it with something so important that just mustn't wait another moment.

But, I've forfeited the right to ask, "Haven't your parents taught you anything?" Because some parents haven't and some people lack parents, nor to ask, "Were you raised in a barn?" Because some people actually were.

A friend gave me a Sheryl Crow album for a birthday and I'm ashamed to admit I've never listened to it. Have no idea what's on it. It might actually be good. It's like a Chia Pet® that never gets used. Might should recycle.

I read yesterday that John Kerry was instrumental in starting Earth Day. That was news to me. I thought we invented that back in grade school, and I have no recollection of Kerry's leadership. I lost patience with the conversation on resource conservation about a decade later when my mileage-conscious mid-size coupe was completely surrounded by a wolf pack of unnecessarily oversized SUVs and full size trucks with no other ordinary sized car in sight. Homes with lavish lawns and deluge-style bathroom shower heads appeared simultaneously with public service announcements on water conservation. I'm tired of the lecture on global warming, coming as it does from high-energy using prince and princesses and delivered as it is to a person whom already conserves more energy than the lecturer imagines. My friends are astounded when I tell them I filled my tank when I moved 6 months ago and I'm just now coming up on the 1/4 full mark.

However, still interested in hearing about the clever things you've done to recycle, conserve, collect, extract, exploit, energy.

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

Mike,

For the life of me, I don't understand why some of you have so much trouble reading. Where did I say I believe Crow's version of events?

Do you and revenant have some sort of competition going where you see how many posts you can misread and/or misunderstand? I'm assuming the two of you do this intentionally since it is virtually impossible to believe that the two of you get things consistently wrong just by pure coincidence.

Get back to me when you get a clue.

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

Revenant said...
Cyrus, I'm sure you think you made an important point, but for the life of me I can't imagine what it was.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised that my point went over your head. Here it is again:

Please try to be accurate if you're hoping to make a point that depends on facts. Thank you.

Revenant, no offense, but your posts reliably seem to have factual errors. You prove that again by incorrectly summarizing my posts about Clarence Thomas. Why do you do this? You leave me little choice but to assume that you are
(a) sloppy about facts, because you don't see them as relevant;
(b) intentionally distorting facts to bolster your argument and to tweak those you regard as liberals; or
(c) just plain dumb.

Pogo said...

Crow and David have now joined the neo-Puritan Left, where excessive religiosity has been supplanted by doctrinaire eco-utopianism.

This dynamic has been played out several times in America's past, leading to the Salem witch trials of 1692, the Red Scare of 1919, McCarthy's communist hunt in the 1950s, and the Watergate hysteria of 1973.

In 'A History of the American People', Paul Johnson called this "the propensity of the American people to be convulsed by spasms of self-righteous rage against enemies, real or imaginary, of their society and way of living."

Revenant said...

Here's another amusingly telling quote from Laurie David:

"I honestly thought that I was going to change his mind, like, right there and then," Ms. David said Sunday

Ego much?

See, this is exactly the kind of behavior people refer to when they say that global warming alarmism is a religion. The fundamentalists and evangelicals I grew up around had the exact same attitude -- that if you're not of their faith it can only be because you haven't heard The Good News from one of the faithful yet.

Mike said...

Cyrus,

You're right, my bad. I assumed that you took her story at face value, but that assumption is unwarranted.

So, we can agree that it is naive to accept Crow-David's version of the encounter, right?

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

Mike,

Well, it certainly makes me wonder about what the two of them could have been thinking. Why would they assume that Karl Rove would be receptive to global warming arguments at a social gathering? And even if they thought the gathering was a good opportunity to discuss global warming, why on earth would they pick Rove? They showed remarkably poor judgment in my opinion.

My impression of Rove is that even Republicans aren't that fond of him. He's a bit like the guy who cleans out your septic tank; you know you need him to help you out now and then, and he may be brilliant at cleaning your septic tank, but you don't really want him spending a lot of time hanging around your house with you.

Mike, in to answer your question, I've only read the David-Crow version of the encounter so far, and I only read it because Ann linked to it. Consequently I'll make the same point in this case that I made about Clarence Thomas--I imagine that the David-Crow version of events is self-serving.

Seneca the Younger said...

I love the way Sheryl is "unphased." This woman is strong. She can deal with a man not yielding to her sexual power.

She, however, doesn't own a dictionary or a word processor with spell correction.

Synova said...

I think it sounds as though Rove *was* polite. He spoke to them, pointed out that the US spends more on global warming research (and those of us deniers are rather peeved that the administration has gone over to the "dark side" and has officially accepted that global warming is caused by humans) so what did they *want*?

And then he excused himself and Crow grabs his arm?

Who is being rude here?

There are no-win situations and talking to crusaders is one of them. Hilliary could only take one visit from Mother Sheehan and they are at least *remotely* on the same side. What did these two expect from *Rove* for Pete's sake?

Yeah, probably shirt rending...

Revenant said...

And then he excused himself and Crow grabs his arm?

Now, now, Synova. You don't want to get in trouble with Cyrus, do you? Everyone knows that the Sheryl version -- "touched" -- is obviously true, and the third-party account -- "grabbed" -- is obviously false. This touched/grabbed distinction is of course vitally important, and completely undermines your entire argument. Er, or something.

Seven Machos said...

Cyrus -- So far, we have from you a view that Clarence Thomas does not listen at oral argument and that Karl Rove is a pariah who lies about encounters with horse-faced C-list singers.

But it just happens to be this way. Right? It's not like people on the right are automatically bad or stupid.

Synova said...

Touched, grabbed, whatever. He was leaving, the "touch" was meant to prevent that. It was *meant* to force him to continue to listen.

I think Miss Manners would be appalled.

But manners don't matter because "who wouldn't want to be touched by Sheryl Crow?"

Oh, and the implication that they *became* heartbroken that *Rove* wasn't more receptive to their lecture?

Are we supposed to believe they didn't arrive with iron-clad pre-conceptions about the evil that Bush is doing to the environment? (Never mind the research funds, public acceptance of the "truth", and his modest and highly energy and water efficient Crawford ranch home?)

Does making the right noises and couching it all in words that oooooze and dripp feelie-ness actually fool people?

Jeff said...

"He's a bit like the guy who cleans out your septic tank; you know you need him to help you out now and then, and he may be brilliant at cleaning your septic tank, but you don't really want him spending a lot of time hanging around your house with you."

Absolutely. Why in the world would you want some blue collar guy hanging around your house? He probably drives a truck! Maybe did a tour in the army. Voted for Bushitler. Plus he does stuff you absolutely refuse to do because your better than him. Two Americas indeed.

Mike said...

I imagine that the David-Crow version of events is self-serving.

I imagine the same thing.

... he may be brilliant at cleaning your septic tank, but you don't really want him spending a lot of time hanging around your house with you.

My Dad's a plumber. It never occurred to me that there is something wrong with him.

Synova said...

There's a rather famous Science Fiction short story (and since I suck at names I don't remember who wrote it) where the "septic tank guy" on a space habitat goes on strike because he's treated like sh*t and no one will go do his job and it gets to be a real crisis so a visitor, who had been highly regarded, goes and turns a wheel or flips a switch, averting disaster.

Afterward he's not a hero, in fact, they sort of funnel him out to his ship, forcing him to leave without even physically seeing any of the other inhabitants.

Thorley Winston said...

My Dad's a plumber. It never occurred to me that there is something wrong with him.

Mine used to work as a city utility worker for the sewage and water system. He would get calls day and night (first man I knew who had two beepers – the other for when he was a volunteer fire fighter) for people who would call him out to their homes when there was a problem with their water and sewage system.

I never thought there was anything wrong with him either. Neither did any of the people he helped judging by the shoebox of thank you notes he kept.

Seven Machos said...

Way to go, Cyrus. Sweet analogy!

Revenant said...

Does making the right noises and couching it all in words that oooooze and dripp feelie-ness actually fool people?

Well it fooled the local lefties, but then what doesn't?

Beth said...

I keep a soft spot for Rosie O'Donnell in my heart, despite her many transgressions, because of days like today, when after hearing of Crow's toilet paper rationing plan, exclaimed, "Have you SEEN my ass??"

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

Mike,

Where I live, plumbers don't clear out septic tanks. There are people who specialize in cleaning septic tanks, and unfortunately, they tend to smell a bit like their work environment.

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

seven machos wrote:
It's not like people on the right are automatically bad or stupid.


Hey, I don't think you're bad.

Cyrus Pinkerton said...

revenant,
The evidence is in; it's (c).

AJ Lynch said...

Sippican's revamped Cheryl Crow song lyrics included this :

"The bartender has plans for the want ads"

[I wonder if he had the chili for lunch?]

Sipp - you are a frigging genius. I am stil laughing at this line.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob said...

Wasn't the Crow-David Entity one of those planet-destroying alien hive mind things Capt Kirk and Mr Spock blew up in Star Trek? Or did they just sleep with its green-skinned queen/leader and mind-meld with its computer?