September 20, 2006

"I do hope we can somehow 'get' Althouse."

At first, I assumed that meant they were trying to understand me, but apparently not.

Meanwhile, there's the new Liza-dear-before-you-go-assailing-your-betters lefty blogger screwup.

44 comments:

Fenrisulven said...

Heh. I predicted this at Helen's 10:45 AM:

It also served as a convenient distraction from the Whites Only lunch with Clinton - stalk the outsiders so Jessica, et al don't have to explain that bigotry to their readers.

Didn't work. They're about to be hit in the flank from some of their own minority bloggers.


Fen. Treats. Yummy. Somebody toss me a Scoobie Snack!

peter hoh said...

Some commenters on the majikthise blog suggested that they organize a campaign to complain to Ann's employer. Lindsay had the good sense to tell them that wasn't a good idea.

Meanwhile, over at Feministing, the quote of the day yesterday came from Harvey Mansfield's book, Manliness. In the comments, Tom Head had this to say: By the way, Althouse is a HUGE fan of Harvey Mansfield, which explains an awful lot.

When I asked him for the source of his insight, here's his reply: And MidwayPete, you may be right about Althouse and Mansfield. I had been told that she was a huge fan of his (I can't remember where), but a quick Google search suggests that she may not be. I suppose one would have to ask her.

Okay then.

Ann Althouse said...

I had to Google to figure out who Harvey Mansfield was. I did write a post about him once, here. How hard was that to find? I think the guy found it then completely dishonestly retreated to "suppose one would have to ask her" instead of recording what he actually found. What a loser.

What vicious people, eh? I love the way to go out of their way to exclude, eject, and distance people who they might persuade, but this is absolutely standard treatment by the left side of the blogosphere. I have to try to resist opposing their positions because I find them so distasteful. It's anti-persuasion going on over there.

OddD said...

"Althouse is a HUGE fan of Harvey Mansfield..."

I don't understand this on so many levels. First, I don't know who this guy is. Second, I don't know why this constitutes a refutation of...anything! Is this just a permutation of Godwin's law, where, rather than reference Hitler or Nazis, we reference People All Right Thinking Folks Abhor?

Fenrisulven said...

Some commenters on the majikthise blog suggested that they organize a campaign to complain to Ann's employer. Lindsay had the good sense to tell them that wasn't a good idea

I may wrap all this up, with links, in an email to Peter Daou. Jane Hamsher took point at the luncheon to push the talent pool of the on-line Left. I think Peter would find it curious that in a matter of days, they have managed to ostricize moderate feminists and minority bloggers.

EDIT: oh nevermind. My Rove Decoder Ring is sending the "stand down" signal.

The Drill SGT said...

Fen,

at least on Ann's blog lunch series, I think MadisonMan was the first to pick up on the "whiteness" angle, late nite on the 15th. Here was my followup:

The Drill SGT said...
Not bad MM, MadisonMan said...
And don't get me started on the overwhelming whiteness of the crowd. Do you think if bloggers met a Bush that the photo op would be so white? No way.

You missed making the point that the roundtable meeting at his Harlem office What was that nasty Dean crack about how diverse the democrats were and if it were a Republican meeting the only color would be from the hired help?
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/sayitloud/dean302


Ann,

I was hoping that you wouldn't carry on this engagement with another round. I was hoping that all those angry wacko's would go away and we could get back to a civil discussion again.. guess not.

Maahn, we're in for a bumpy ride again.

Ann Althouse said...

Fen: LOL.

Daou always linked to me on Salon, where he aligned me on the right. Most of the things he chose to link weren't rightish positions, so I don't know why I was given the right side. It's as if there's a passion to make the Democrats side as small as possible. And then of course, feminism is defined to only include Democrats or those to the left of them. (Which is why their strenuous assertions that I'm not a feminist mean nothing to me. One of my strongest opinions is that feminism is not Democratic party politics, and I heavily mistrust everyone who acts like it is.)

Anyway, I find it hard to believe Daou wants to see me alienated from Democrats. It just doesn't make any sense politically.

amba said...

Those people are so disgusting and pathetic, I wouldn't give them the time of day.

And the way they go on darkly as if Ann were Trotsky and they were Stalin! "The language of totalitarianism" indeed!

This is the first moment in my life that I've ever even considered joining the Republican party . . . because those are Democrats.

But then, I live to see the Dem party die like the Whigs did, and be replaced by something vital. This is the shrieking of the undead.

Ann Althouse said...

Drill: I know what you mean, but I wanted to link to those two things. Otherwise, I've let it go. I'm not reading what they're writing about me, so responding is a nonissue.

Jim H said...

Amba:
As much as they're trying, it's unlikely these days that a major political party will disintegrate. But maybe it can't happen...until it happens.

The libertarians are more respectable opponents, even if some of their positions seem to me untenable. They don't seem much for organizing though. So we're stuck with what we have.

The Drill SGT said...

The biggest irony is that Hillary and Daou need to look beyond the primary. The Dem's are ultimately hungry enough to win that if Hillary looked like she could beat Rudy etal, they would swallow their objections and accept her, DLC connections via Bill and all.

That means that Daou is perhaps the wrong guy for the job. The right guy would be having Ann and Glenn and Helen over for lunch. If Hillary could convince Ann and the Ol'Sarge to vote for her as we both did for Bill (me once, Ann, twice) Hillary would sweep the center and the left would go along.

If Ann and I don't vote for Hillary (or Al, or JFK, etc) then it will be another ugly Wednesday morning in November 08 with finger pointing about "stolen elections" and "failure to turn out the base".

Face it Howard Dean! the Base of the Democratic party isn't big enough to win for dog catcher if you run the middle off to the GOP.

You can run Congressional races in 06 without a war on terror plan. You can't win a presidential race without some constructive ideas on the GWOT. America won't take you seriously.

amba said...

Jim H:

Inertia is a powerful force, innit?

MadisonMan said...

DrillSgt: My observation on the whiteness was not original. I had read it elsewhere else but boy it resonated. Talk about what's wrong with that part of the Democratic Party!

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fenrisulven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
nedludd said...

I must just be a big ol' dumb hick, but why did Mr. Cottage just post a picture of a zit encrusted ass?

Fenrisulven said...

/fixed link

/related, via Instapundit

"I learned this lesson the hard way after I signed on as a contributor to The American Prospect's media criticism blog a few weeks ago. It seemed like a bit of an awkward fit -- the Prospect is a liberal magazine, and I had previously co-founded Spinsanity, a non-partisan watchdog of online spin -- but I assumed they knew who they were hiring. I was wrong."

"Last Wednesday, controversy broke out when I slammed two liberal blogs for using an airline employee's suicide after 9/11 to take a cheap shot at President Bush. My post, which initially contained a minor factual error, prompted one of the bloggers, Atrios (aka Duncan Black), to label me the "wanker of the day" and to call on TAP editors to "rethink things a bit." Hundreds of Atrios readers filled the Prospect's comment boards with vitriol. In an email Friday morning, Sam Rosenfeld, the magazine's online editor, asked that I focus my blogging on conservative targets. He specifically objected to two posts criticizing liberals (here and here ) that I wrote after the Atrios controversy. I refused and terminated the relationship."

By Brendan Nyhan

They're busy crafting their own echo chamber.

Doyle said...

Nyhan was very, very far off base in his criticism of Atrios. His beef was not with Duncan Black, or his guest blogger, but the guy who the guest blogger quoted. He was very slow to realize his mistake of attribution. Plus, the point he wrongly attributed to Atrios wasn't necessarily unfair.

No alligator tears for Eric Alterman?

Doyle said...

By the way, there's a bit of irony in your "echo chamber" accusation, given Nyhan's choice of venue to do his whining. Time.com has been accumulating fairly right-leaning authors, no?

I condsider that a more noteworthy trend than the American Prospect dumping the "non-partisan watchdog" who couldn't shoot straight.

Johnny Nucleo said...

Amba said: "But then, I live to see the Dem party die like the Whigs did, and be replaced by something vital. This is the shrieking of the undead."

This is exactly what I've been thinking. I still hope the Democratic Party can save itself at the eleventh hour, but I am losing hope. On Freeman Hunt's blog, LoafingOaf quotes Fallaci comparing the Left to Radical Islamists. I've been thinking exactly that too.

What the hell is going on???

(Yes, yes, I know, the Left does not, generally speaking, have a habit of engaging in Jihad. Fallaci was talking about a mindset - the mindset of the fanatic.)

(This is entirely inappropriate, so I apologize in advance, but is Freeman Hunt a knockout, or what?)

Fenrisulven said...

(This is entirely inappropriate, so I apologize in advance, but is Freeman Hunt a knockout, or what?)

No biggie. I noticed that too.

Dave said...

Ann, I don't understand all the aninmosity you seem to create. Your positions are as moderate as they are harmless.

I find it odd that such a moderate as you can engender such passion and ire amongst the left. I can understand liberal ire at Coulter/Malkin et al, but you are not of the same political heritage as they. The axiomatic and ideological hatred and revulsion liberals have to any person who does not hew to the liberal creed is at once alarming and stultifying.

Ann Althouse said...

Dave: I assume it's that I know exactly where to slip in the dagger. It doesn't look like much, but they really feel it. That is, it's not harmless. And I do know I'm doing it. Give me some credit for elegance.

Doyle said...

Ann, I don't understand all the aninmosity you seem to create.

It's an eternal mystery. Ann's so moderate, she really should be appreciated as much by the left as she is by the right.

That this is not the case can only be evidence of the intolerance of liberals.

Dave said...

So, Ann, what you're saying is you're manipulative.

I can appreciate that. But surely one would think them smart enough to pick up on that and circumvent it by, I don't know, ignoring you?

But apparently not. So you keep pushing their buttons.

It's brilliant, and, yes, elegant.

Doug said...

I loved reading Freeman's slapping of Jane "Black Face" Hamsher and Jane's idiotic posts. I have been reading Ann's blog for over a month now, and I am familiar with Phyllis Schafly. Anyone who would confuse the two shows a shocking ignorance of both women.

Hamsher should try to clean her own house and fix the condescending attitudes towards bloggers of color that appear on Firecrotchlake.com. I found it interesting that the commentator on the site who unloaded on the black blogger said he didn't know she was black, yet he referenced Hamsher's race in his post. His remark about Hamsher representing every "blond white women who ever pissed you off" made it clear that he knew the blogger was black.

Then of course, the site ended up falling back on the old stand by "some of my best friends/bloggers are black" to disguise their racial condescension. Given Hamsher's affinity to black minstrel shows, one should hardly be surprised that her blog is racially insenstive.

Johnny Nucleo said...

I hate to do this. But I must defend Jane Hamsher against Doug's suggestion.

I don't think Jane Hamsher or the Left in general is racist or sexist or doesn't take these things seriously. I think they are mad and will betray anything for power.

chuck b. said...

Doug said, "I have been reading Ann's blog for over a month now, and I am familiar with Phyllis Schafly. Anyone who would confuse the two shows a shocking ignorance of both women."

I dunno...they were both big Goldwater boosters back in the 60s.

chuck b. said...

And, unlike Schafly, Althouse hasn't shown us her couches.

I'm withholding judgment.

LoafingOaf said...

Tom Head had this to say: By the way, Althouse is a HUGE fan of Harvey Mansfield, which explains an awful lot.

I find this Tom Head character kinda funny. He's posting so many comments that have this fantasy image of Ann.

While he was here you'd think he would've looked around. But here's a comment he wrote at Feministing on 9/16: Althouse has moved on from hate against young women to hate against Muslims. If she's following the normal right-wing hate calendar (and I don't know her well enough to know whether or not she uses it), she'll be required to cycle through gays, atheists, the ACLU, "thugs" (i.e. young low-income black men), "welfare queens" (i.e. young low-income black women), and undocumented immigrants before she gets around to uppity young women again, so I'd imagine you're safe for a while.

I clicked around his two web sites and his MySpace for the hell of it and he's some PhD candidate who's apparently put out 22 books in the past 6 years (3-4 books/year - can they possibly be good?).

The impression I got is of a hyper-PC, cultish dude - like a parody out of that movie PCU. I'm suspicious of people like that, who conform so completely to so many political groups (in his case, far left). Like, sign up with every lefty group under the sun (he literally has) and other hyper-PC types will feel obligated to be your friend.

Maybe some of them will even date you. He's a charter member of the MySpace "Feminists Are Hot!" club, backing up the comment someone made about lefty men craving sexual content that isn't sexist. http://groups.myspace.com/hotfeminist

LoafingOaf said...

Like, sign up with every lefty group under the sun (he literally has) and other hyper-PC types will feel obligated to be your friend.

I mean to add: And praise/publish your crappy books.

Ann Althouse said...

Johnny Nucleo: "I don't think Jane Hamsher or the Left in general is racist or sexist or doesn't take these things seriously. I think they are mad and will betray anything for power."

I agree. I've been criticizing them for making sexist comments and saying that they don't care enough about feminism to put it first. It's a means to an end, the end being political power, and they sell it out whenever they need to. That it's often not even politically smart just shows that they're not that politically smart, not that they are consumed with political will.

chuck b.: "I dunno...they were both big Goldwater boosters back in the 60s."

As was Hillary Clinton.

"'And, unlike Schafly, Althouse hasn't shown us her couches.' I'm withholding judgment."

Thanks for the photo idea!

Goesh said...

You da' woman, Ms. Ann! Why is it we have often heard the expression "you da' man" applied to some male but never the converse applied to some woman?

Doug said...

I hate to do this. But I must defend Jane Hamsher against Doug's suggestion.

I don't think Jane Hamsher or the Left in general is racist or sexist or doesn't take these things seriously. I think they are mad and will betray anything for power.


I don't think the left or Hamsher is racist either, I was just applying their standards that the left applies to the right, to their behavior over the past weeks. If some righty had said things to a black blogger about respecting your betters and then lying that they didn't know the poster was black, that behaviour would be hammered by someone like Hamsher, as would the spectacle of a whites only meeting in Harlem with soul food on the menu, but no bloggers of color to be found in the crowds.

The left applies a standard to everyone else that it does want to follow. Look at the hiring practices of Michael Moore, Al Franken and his Air America comrades. Their staffs are whiter than the Howard Dean campaign of 2004.

To Chuck B: We could add Goldwater Girl, Hillary Clinton to the mix and have quite the diverse trio. Phyll, Hill and Ann.

Ann Althouse said...

That should be "That it's often not even politically smart just shows that they're not that politically smart, not that they aren't consumed with political will."

But really that sentence should have been edited to avoid all the "nots."

MD said...

Sippican Cottage - that comment was cheeky, sir!

Dr. Althouse - keep on reminding us that feminism *can* be a big tent, and not just a small one. I would love to be a part of that big tent but I suppose my politics excludes me. It's funny, I thought the whole thing about feminism was to be your own woman, even if that means you must occasionally vote Republican. I'm sorry, but I must occasionally do that.....

Now who was it on these boards that used the phrase, 'deeds not words' in reference to suffragettes? Oooh, I like that.

Goesh said...

I always thought feminism was mostly for equal opportunity and equal pay and for smashing the stereotype of women as sexual objects. I always wondered why bras were being burned when the multitude of low payed female clerical workers should have been unionized. The UCWU, United Clerical Workers Union comprised mostly of women, could have made the Teamsters look like little wimps.

Henry said...

I assume it's that I know exactly where to slip in the dagger. It doesn't look like much, but they really feel it.

What does this remind me of?

Vercotti: Doug (takes a drink) Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

2nd Interviewer: What did he do?

Vercotti: He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious.

knoxgirl said...

firecrotchlake.com

Oh no you di-in

Anthony said...

Ditto on the Freeman Hunt hotness issue.

Powerline has a bit on the Nyhan business, but their take is less charitable towards him.

Fenrisulven said...

Belmont Club too.

"Ideologues of all stripes will doubtless delight in this, because it is a demonstration of power. But they will be wrong. It is an unwitting reversion to a defect; an expulsion from the blogosphere of the very property which made it so much more powerful than the mainstream media. How strange that the mainstream media should, even in its death throes, attract into its pit the very creatures which once sought to escape it. Yet those tempted to run back after the fatal glitter of the last century's media should remember: be like the mainstream media, die like the mainstream media. Go back to your little sandbox. You will be the better for it."

Fenrisulven said...

The impression I got is of a hyper-PC, cultish dude - like a parody out of that movie PCU. I'm suspicious of people like that, who conform so completely to so many political groups (in his case, far left). Like, sign up with every lefty group under the sun (he literally has) and other hyper-PC types will feel obligated to be your friend.

Tom Head is a metrosexual, not a dude.

Noonan: "an American man and woman who were on their honeymoon in Australia or New Zealand. They were swimming in the ocean, the water chest-high. From nowhere came a shark. The shark went straight for the woman, opened its jaws. Do you know what the man did? He punched the shark in the head. He punched it and punched it again. He did not do brilliant commentary on the shark, he did not share his sensitive feelings about the shark, he did not make wry observations about the shark, he punched the shark in the head. So the shark let go of his wife and went straight for him. And it killed him. The wife survived to tell the story of what her husband had done. He had tried to deck the shark."

Tom Head is the type who prefers to jump the shark [groan - obvious punchline]

Brent said...

Just to gleefully paint the picture bigger . . .

The left (modern-day "feminism" included) is losing touch with reality to a degree not seen since the Lindbergh-Hitler-appeasement days of World War II.

I thought it was going to be so sweet and fun to watch as the Democratic left fails in their hopes of taking either house in the upcoming election. Now I'm afraid it's going to be scary - what will these people do to themselves and others after seeing that the majority of America doesn't buy their world-view?

tcd said...

Professor,
I think the next feminist blog convo you attend, you should maybe leave Silvio or his replacement at home. Otherwise, Silvio may end up w/ some bad scarring...